Tokyo Ghoul:re Chapter 143 Discussion

fullmetal-ghoul said:


1. My point wasn't that Kaneki losing makes him a realistic character. It was his decision to do everything himself, and fall back on the flaws that he himself identifyed in part 1 that makes him realistic. In :re, we have seen him work on his flaws, he is more reliant on others now. However, when things get desperate, he falls back on the flawed mentality deeply ingrained in him since childhood, because that's human nature. This is what makes him realistic as you cannot easily move past a mentality you've had forever, even if you make a conscious effort to do so (Kaneki doesn't even realize he's made the same mistakes, Furuta has to tell him). It's not regression when it's been hinted at previously in :Re, as mentioned in the link I previously shared.

2. But yes, him losing in this situation does add an aspect of realism. In real life, a single soldier cannot save his army from being slaughtered, no matter how powerful this soldier is. Its the same here, Kaneki, the most powerful ghoul, cannot save his organisation from slaughter on his own, especially since he's aging rapidly and starving. This arc has made it clear he's nowhere near his best. And yes, the result of the fight makes perfect sense, this post details it better than I ever could.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TokyoGhoul/comments/743nok/how_the_result_of_143s_battle_makes_sense/

And a lot has happended in :Re, I'm gonna assume you're talking about Kaneki's character since the plot has advanced a lot, and the other characters have changed. This much is pretty obvious.

Kaneki has developed a huge amount in :Re, and while he is learning the same lesson he learnt at the end of part 1 (which I think is fine), he has still changed a lot. Since Kaneki returned after chapter 50ish, we've seen him in a suicidal state without any reason to live, slowly develop into the person he is now, someone who is clearly motivated and enjoying life, improving on his flaws on his flaws in the process, during which time Ishida has also dropped hints that he hasn't completely eradicated them, as build up for this chapter. There has been progression in :Re, it's just he has a lot more room to progress. This chapter doesn't destroy the development I just talked about.

Sure, the fact he's made the same mistake may feel like his character has regressed in one department, which is why I understand the criticism. But I don't see it as such because there have been hints that he hasn't moved on, its more like Kaneki thought he moved on but hasn't, at least completely, which is why Furuta spelt out his mistakes this time in contrast to his self realisation at the end of part 1. Has any development really gone down the drain, when he didn't really complete that development in the first place?

Also, you're acting as though the series is over already and is gonna end in tragedy. We're nowhere near the end, lets not talk sbout the ending, before you know, it actually ends.

SeidouTZ said:


Again that is not building a realistic character, that is downgrading an already established one for the sake of tragedy.

Consider the following: one of the basic fundamentals of creating a character is that a character must have a clear desire. The desire, and what stands in the way of achieving that desire, is basically what makes the plot.
In the same vain Kaneki created GOAT with the goal in mind of creating a peaceful world where humans and ghouls can co-exist. However what does kaneki do to accomplish that goal? Well he "could" have killed Furuta when he met him privately, but he chooses not to; He could have publicly exposed the Washu as ghouls thus making the entire CCG turn upside-down, but he chooses not to; He could had extorted Hazuki for information or even consider the fact that maybe he was followed, but again he chooses not to.
This events that are happening right now could had been easily avoided if Kaneki had stayed in character, but instead we have him act careless and irracional all for what? Because Ishida opted for purposedly rehashing the exact same thing that happened in part 1 (bringing Kaneki to the verge of death, making him experience despair and then made him crawl his up back up yet again) for the sake of a act 3 to happen? No that is still unjustifiable.

SeidouTZ said:

Even if you make the argument that kaneki "did no developed enough so it makes all okay", having him go back to the exact same state that he was at the end of the original makes Re seem pointless in the grand scheme of things by comparison.

If the way Ishida is writing this series a tragic ending is much assured. Not that it matter after all going for pure shock value it has been the main principle of all of re.

fullmetal-ghoul said:


Strongly disagree. Everything Kaneki has done, and every mistake he's made has been in character. Since the start of TG, Ishida has made it clear that just like any one of us, Kaneki is an ordinary kid thrown in the position of a main character. He has no leadership experience, nor is he especially bright, and yet the role of OEK is forced upon him with the task of uniting humans and ghouls. Its far more natural and in character for him to make mistakes. He's not a Lelouch, and he never was, while Furuta has been on that level of intellect since his introduction. IMO, Kaneki outplaying Furuta would be out of character.

Moving on to the mistakes you listed, its perfectly understandable for Kaneki to make them in context. He lets Furuta go, but how is he meant to know how far Furuta would take things, or how smart the guy is. I didn't see nearly as many people complaining about it then as i do now, hindsight is quite a useful thing and its our job as a reader to place ourselves in the shoes of the character if we're to understand their actions. In addition, this was at a point where Kaneki was meant to be careless, and for good reason. Before 125, he has no motivation to achieve his goals as the OEK, he's doing it because Arima wanted him to, its made apparant in Clown Siege (I think Ayato calls him out on it), and after 125 where Tsukiyama points out his new found focus. Its been a crucial aspect of his development in the past 50-ish chapters.

How would he publicly expose the Washu as ghouls while getting anyone to believe him? (unless he has some sort of evidence I've forgotten about, if so my bad)

And finally not extorting a ten year old ghoul is totally in character for Kaneki. Is it a mistake? Absolutely, look where they are now, but I think its in character for Kaneki to not harm a ten year old, he's not a ruthless person. And why would Kaneki consider the possibility that Hajime was followed, Hajime was taking in by GOAT, he didn't find them. They found Goat's base through Hajime's tracking device, which was located in his tongue and pretty understandable that Kaneki didn't find it. I think you've overestimated Kaneki's abilities in the past, he's made mistakes but hasn't been downgraded.



If you think the Kaneki now and the Kaneki at the end of part 1 are the same, then we've been reading a different series. The Kaneki then was depressed, suicidal and mentally unstable, while now he's relatively happy with his life and as stable as Kaneki could possibly be. Their situation is similar, but as a person Kaneki has changed a lot since then, which is why, among a lot of other things, :Re is quite far from pointless for me.

Edit: And I've already explained in detail why, even though his situation is similar, this does not mean his development was destroyed, he just needs to develop more.

And don't speak about the ending too soon. I don't think Re is ending anytime soon (pretty sure Ishida is baiting us, and Suzuya is on the cover for V13, which would seem out of place for the last volume of :Re), and :Re has been implied to be an epic, in contrast to the tragedy in part 1. I think this chapter is a stepping stone to further Kaneki's development, but we'll see. No point arguing over the future

SeidouTZ said:

Killing Furuta would still had be the best course of action in that situation regardless, he is their main enemy so there is no point on having him walk freely;
He wouldn't need physical evidences, just inform someone within CCG and they would probably look into the Washus more thoroughly;
Even if not ordered by kaneki himself his people could very well had inspected Hazuki better.

But fair enough i am willing to comply with the fact that Kaneki may not be that much of an intelligent character as i picture him to be. However having him act so irrationally, thinking he could take on most people by himself is still stretching. Why would you have your mc make the exact same mistake as he did in part 1 in act 2 despite how much that event affected his psychic? Makes it seem like there was no actual sense of progression. What proposes does it hold having Kaneki no longer being suicidal if we will have the exact same thing that happened in the past happen again? It doesnt hold whater. This constant back and forward is becoming tiresome.
But whatever is not like i will be able to change your stand on the re series, nor i believe you will be able to change mine so there is no point of argue further.