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| Goddammit!! What the hell was that? Got to be one of the best Gintama episodes ever, might be the best! |
| Ok what just happen... was Shoyo alive or is he undead now....Gintama is as thrilling as always |
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| Oh well, Utsuro it's here, this should be fun. |
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| I would appreciate this episode a lot more if there was something of Gintama in it. |
| I still hate Utsuro. His reveal was fucking fast. It took some chapters for his face to be revealed. |
| the way Gintoki cut Utsuro still gave me chills, he defitinety didn't hesitate nor asking anything, BADASS although it was revealed the identity pretty fast, it took chapters in manga |
“The greatest crimes in the world are not committed by people breaking the rules but by people following the rules. It's people who follow orders that drop bombs and massacre villages.” -Bansky  |
| In the OP, when I saw Utsuro, I just have a feeling he might be Shoyo or related to Shoyo. Is he Shoyo's clone? Good action scenes. Judging from the preview, Sasaki is going to die? |
But it's important to remember that a movie review is subjective;it only gives you one person's opinion. http://www.classzone.com/books/lnetwork_gr08/page_build.cfm?content=analyz_media&ch=30 It doesn't matter if you like LoGH,Monster etc.If you are a jobless or college/school dropout living in your mom basement, you are still an unintelligent loser. Taste in anime does not make you a better person.If elitist don't exist, casual pleb and shit taste also don't exist. |
Nagirah said: I'm interested to hear what anime only people think about this plot twist. Honestly? One of the most flagrant betrayals to the spirit of Gintama I have ever witnessed in this show. I hope everything is a lie, or a trick or something like that, because otherwise I don't know why the hell is a series that has explicitly criticized and parodied the cheap "familiar villain" plot twists (hi, Tama Quest) indulging in, precisely, a cheap familiar villain plot twist. Other than that I didn't recognize the characters here. Really. And in general I'm having problems during this arc but this episode was the most extreme I can remember and probably in the whole show. Just... what the hell was that Kagura? Or that Sougo? Would anything change if they were replaced by any other characters? Specially regarding their relationship with Nobume... I feel that this arc and specially this episode made a huge step towards something that was totally unexplored, an appreciation for this character that was virtually non-existent before. The speech of Kagura was fine. But I didn't get at all the feelings of Kagura, her transcendence as a character in that scene. Maybe because Nobume has been so sporadic in the show. Whatever. And Sougo basically sees her as a countersadist. There were feels in this episode but they came out of nowhere. I may sound too bitter about this but to be honest this episode has left me in such a WTF state that I don't even know if I've liked it or not. I can't even think of a rating at this point. |
jal90Mar 16, 2016 10:09 AM
| IT'S HERE. THE MIND FUCK EPISODE. The animation is great through-out the episode, especially Gin v Utsuro. We knew Yamadera-san voices sensei/utsuro, but when I heard Utsuro speak, he sounds like a more sinister version of Beerus. Next episode, damn feels once again |
lagba2Mar 16, 2016 10:15 AM
 NANDESUKA KORE? |
Nagirah said: So your complaint wasn't about the Shoyo/Utsuro thing, but the way Kagura, Sougo and Nobume acted? I can't really understand your feelings on that matter, because their behavior seemed completely in character to me. I actually complain about both, sorry if I made the post confusing. The plot twist is the one that bothers me the most, and is probably the thing I have overtly disliked about this episode. But Kagura and Sougo were rather frustrating because there was an emotional delivery and I felt that it was lost in translation. Nagirah said: Kagura and Sougo have had several times to spend with Nobume in the past, but maybe you just don't remember them anymore, because the anime has been going for so long. Please don't give me that. I watched almost the entirety of Gintama between late 2014 and early 2015, just before this season started, so I have the show relatively fresh in my mind. I remember that Kagura and Sougo have shared scenes with Nobume, they have talked a few times, but they haven't grown a relationship in the grounds that would naturally lead to this. Heck, to Sougo till this point Nobume was anything else but a fellow sadist he liked to antagonize. What this episode and probably the previous one did was a sudden step towards something that wasn't built, or if it was, not in a wholly comprehensible way. I am not complaining about the attitudes themselves as much as the timing. |
jal90Mar 16, 2016 10:34 AM
| That was just amazing. Chills throughout the episode. Absolutely brilliant episode, No words to describe how amazing this episode was to me. Utsuro is a beast, Taking out Kagura, Nobume and Sougo. Even with Gin they only injured him. Fight scenes were marvelous but short. I'm an anime only watcher, I started having suspicions once they started showing close ups of Utsuro's face, His hair seemed exactly like Shoyo's and his voice was the same. In the beginning I thought it was just Gintama messing with me but then it was too conspicuous to ignore. The smile confirmed my suspicions. So is Shoyo immortal somehow? Gintoki clearly cut off his head but he's still alive, His wounds healed as well. Nobume says that Utsuro is Shoyo and at the same time not him, Some kind of Split Personality? |
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jal90 said: Nagirah said: I'm interested to hear what anime only people think about this plot twist. Honestly? One of the most flagrant betrayals to the spirit of Gintama I have ever witnessed in this show. I hope everything is a lie, or a trick or something like that, because otherwise I don't know why the hell is a series that has explicitly criticized and parodied the cheap "familiar villain" plot twists (hi, Tama Quest) indulging in, precisely, a cheap familiar villain plot twist. It's not about using cheap tricks honestly. Like you, I would've complained about this but the way it was executed wasn't how your average show would've tackled this. It didn't use this moment as an excuse to make us feel sad that Gintoki would have to kill him again, but Gintoki quickly recovered from the shock without giving much shits. Yes, it would take time to digest this but when you think about it, this was being foreshadowed not only throughout this arc but throughout the entire series. Heck I'd say that we are a bit too quick to judge, I'm just extremely curious to see the outcome of this all. Twists like this bring about a lot of controversies but I prefer to except it as it as and look forward for more. As for the other thing you're complaining about, I don't really have an answer since that's not something I'm troubled over. |
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jal90 said: Nagirah said: Kagura and Sougo have had several times to spend with Nobume in the past, but maybe you just don't remember them anymore, because the anime has been going for so long. Please don't give me that. I watched almost the entirety of Gintama between late 2014 and early 2015, just before this season started, so I have the show relatively fresh in my mind. I remember that Kagura and Sougo have shared scenes with Nobume, they have talked a few times, but they haven't grown a relationship in the grounds that would naturally lead to this. Heck, to Sougo till this point Nobume was anything else but a fellow sadist he liked to antagonize. What this episode and probably the previous one did was a sudden step towards something that wasn't built, or if it was, not in a wholly comprehensible way. I am not complaining about the attitudes themselves as much as the timing. Why was you think that Kagura speech was sudden or something non-existent? They didn't hook up fast during the courtesan arc, crushing Okita balls and fighting against Oboro and company, also aren't both of them friends with Soyo and eveything? |
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| I don't know where to start. I am really trying to add the bits and pieces here. I did not see that coming. I did not see that coming. I did not see that coming. I don't think Shouyo and Utsuru are the one and the same. And I don't want to think that. I am so going to start reading the manga from chapter 1 once this season ends. I have had enough of being toyed around. It's been really bad for my heart for the past couple of months. jal90 said: Specially regarding their relationship with Nobume... I feel that this arc and specially this episode made a huge step towards something that was totally unexplored, an appreciation for this character that was virtually non-existent before. The speech of Kagura was fine. But I didn't get at all the feelings of Kagura, her transcendence as a character in that scene. The part Kagura played here isn't abnormal. Over the years it has been well established by Sorachi that Kagura is the one (yes, more than Shinpachi) who will carry the torch of Gintoki when the time comes. If you can disintegrate her action in this episode and try to integrate it back, you may end up with a mirror reflecting Gintoki's image. There were many a times it had been conveyed to the readers/viewers but maybe it got unnoticed because of the multidimensional nature of Gintama. Coming back to the anime, Kagura remembering Nobume from the earlier episodes was a great way to show she had already seen through Nobume's stone mask that deep inside, she had always been a kind girl. It was just that she grew up in a distorted environment that made her what she is, yet she has been trying to break out of it; even though she was lost with no one to guide her she has been trying at least. As for other aspects of this brilliant episode that felt like 5 minutes of breathless action the thing I noticed the most is Hirono Aya playing Nobume. We usually don't get to hear her voice nowadays as often as in the past but that preview really got me there. She was at the pinnacle of her voice acting as Nobume. Even though the preview kinda felt spoiler-ish, I am not ready for the feels. |
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Nagirah said: I tried, but I still don't understand your point of view. I watched the entirety of gintama from late 2015 to early 2016 so I remember everything very clearly and the way the three's relationship progressed over time felt very natural in my eyes. What exactly about it is so unbelievable? I have explained it already. Twice. No offense, but I can't be doing this forever if there is not reciprocity in the discussion. Please elaborate your point. CG-Silver said: It's not about using cheap tricks honestly. Like you, I would've complained about this but the way it was executed wasn't how your average show would've tackled this. It didn't use this moment as an excuse to make us feel sad that Gintoki would have to kill him again, but Gintoki quickly recovered from the shock without giving much shits. Yes, it would take time to digest this but when you think about it, this was being foreshadowed not only throughout this arc but throughout the entire series. I noticed this, it was fine and definitely a step in the good direction, but I'm not sure if it made enough of a difference. It was still meant to be a shock to the audience, and seeing by the reactions in this thread I'd say it delivered. And again, the foreshadowing does not make this twist more acceptable or less cheap. It just makes it more comprehensible, which was the lesser of my concerns here. I don't know why he -supposedly- survives, and why does he seem to heal so fastly, and I'm looking forward for explanations. But it is an outcome that has been used to death, that Gintama has shown awareness of, and seeing how it indulged in that didn't sound right. Not to mention I'm not very fond of this kind of trope but specially as a fan of Gintama I don't see a proper scenario for this to happen. CG-Silver said: Heck I'd say that we are a bit too quick to judge, I'm just extremely curious to see the outcome of this all. Twists like this bring about a lot of controversies but I prefer to except it as it as and look forward for more. So I am. Heck, I'm the first who wants to end up appreciating this and feeling it as an integral part of the show. So far I failed to do so. |
| finally the reveal of the character that has been teased since beforethe beginning of the SA arc and i'm... lost. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck?!!!!!!!! i mean how?????? fuck, i don't have words to describe what i'm feeling right now. if this does turn out to be Shoyo i'm going to be royally pissed. i mean, the author can't just piss on Shoyo's memory like that after we just spent the last arc seeing what a positive influence he was on the rebel trio. I mean that kind of dumbassness i associate ONLY with Kishimoto. Even Kubo knows that shit. My best guess/hope would be Utsura is a body snatcher, and in his latest form he took Shoyo's, though i'm still unclear on the why. Coul be because he was expecting to make Gintoki go through a Luke I'm YOur Father moment but i doubt it. Too many plot holes for that. i mean how would they have kept his body fresh for all these years and i mean- ok cut the rest, i'm babbling. Anyway the next episode will be probably the most anticipated Gintama ep for me, so i really,sincerely,wincingly hope the GORILLA didn't screw it up. PLEASE DONT SCREW IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There I'm done. |
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Praland said: Why was you think that Kagura speech was sudden or something non-existent? They didn't hook up fast during the courtesan arc, crushing Okita balls and fighting against Oboro and company, also aren't both of them friends with Soyo and eveything? Friends, I guess yes. To the level of mutual understanding... when? When did this happen? Usually one expects this speech to be an integration of pieces that we have seen through the series, but all I'm saying is that these pieces are weak and very casually if at all explored. @shanimebib Well put here and yes, I see your point of Kagura being an extension of Gintoki's own self, which is most likely what Sorachi had in mind with this outcome. It makes sense now that you say it. But again. Timing. Kagura has an appreciation for Nobume? Sure. Are they friends? Yes... maybe actually. They share some common grounds, but they don't even have an established relationship. They were together in one arc, they shared a common objective and they had sort of matching personalities. Does Kagura understand Nobume to the level implied by this episode? Does seeing Nobume cry immediately ellicit a reaction in Kagura where she's able to see through her emotional armor? I think that the episode tried to extract something very deep out of something that so far had been too shallow and sporadic. Then again, if Kagura follows the steps of Gintoki, then it also means that she's able to feel a connection with people quite easily and without the need of a fully explored narrative. Which I guess is logical and coherent but kind of emotionally unsatisfying. |
jal90Mar 16, 2016 11:14 AM
| Nice action, Shoyo is live :O his body is being used or something. Bankai too good.  |
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hahahaha Ichigo wants his sword back. Dunno why people aren't talking about this. Maybe after the newest version of his sword, he tossed this one away. @jal90 I see your point and I believe it's good that you're expressing what you think about this. Ofcourse, I can't change your opinion on this one since this is a very brave move by Sorachi. IMO this twist has added a lot more to the story, there are now many connections that I can think make sense in my mind. A lot of questions need to be answered and while this has made obvious how Gintama might end, I don't think it'll make it any less interesting. Now how an immortal looking Alien might be defeated is upto the author. |
CG-SilverMar 16, 2016 11:36 AM
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| JESUS christ is gintoki´s teacher hahahah when okita shougo is trembling that is bad  who the hell are you?? tha´s what i´m asking too.... |
Sunakko-ch4nMar 16, 2016 12:12 PM
| wow, i really wasn't expecting that reveal! this episode was so epic |
| holy shit freaking love that Utsuro boss theme this episode was fuckawesome best one hands down |
| This will be one of those threads people while visit when either rewatching Gintama or by newer watchers when this discusion aint relevant anymore. I mean you cant just not want to know whether your HOLY SHIT scream was in line with the community! O-O'' Great episode, finish line sprint worthy. |
Spirits of the light! Wielders of the great power that shines far and wide upon the lands of our world... In my hour of need, grant me the light to banish evil! |
| Gintoki is fing boss. save his kohai from his sensei..? damn those battles were good and feels AGAIN.. |
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| THAT PLOT TWIST!!!!! So Utsuro is actually Shouyou (kinda see it coming though due to the hair resemblance) but what I don't understand is how on earth is he still alive? He was beheaded didn't he? I'll wait for the explanation later on in the future episodes (which is only 2 episodes left) But still the whole episode gave me goosebumps, especially Utsuro's OST came in. Even Nobume, Kagura, Sougo, and Gintoki combined can't defeat him. How can I possibly wait for a week for the next episode?? |
| So Utsuro turned out to be Shoyo after all. That talk about memories, could it be that there are two sides to Shoyo? Utsuro being the original? Pretty lame plot twist though, I gotta say. At least it was tackled a bit different from the norm. |
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| What an intriguing revelation. Of course, due to that I immediately felt the need to spoil myself by reading the background information. Wow. I cannot imagine what the final two episodes have in store for us. |
| I was waiting for this reveal on anime for a long time and it was amazing as usual. The OST playing when he came in was insane and so fitting I feel like the current ED has an extra value after this episode, especially when there is a very briefly silence before the ending kicks in then "Acchi muite, kocchi muite" and we see some panels of the disciples with Shoyo thefeels.jpg next week's preview looks very spoiler heavy, one does not need to read manga to guess what's coming next EDIT: grammar |
RileyReidMar 16, 2016 2:19 PM
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| I kind of expected this to happen. The long white hair gave it away. I still was 50% in total tho, but pretty close. But you kind of wanted it to happened and then i actually happens that feels kind of nice XD Also the voice acting was masterpiece worthy like always in Gintama. Might just be that in the complete package of character creation Gintama might rule them all. |
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| I got spoiled a while ago by manga readers (the same way I got spoiled with SW: TFA) so witnessing a Shoyo-like figure in the OP was the final giveaway. Now the shit about Utsuro/Shoyo is how, where and why... CG-Silver said: For me top 5 bro, that's top 5 material right there. 211, 305/306 are also up there. Ps. Otose, Zenzo and Takasugi should've died. At least the first two. |
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Nagirah said: I'm interested to hear what anime only people think about this plot twist. jal90 said: Honestly? One of the most flagrant betrayals to the spirit of Gintama I have ever witnessed in this show. I hope everything is a lie, or a trick or something like that, because otherwise I don't know why the hell is a series that has explicitly criticized and parodied the cheap "familiar villain" plot twists (hi, Tama Quest) indulging in, precisely, a cheap familiar villain plot twist. I understand your reservations, when the revelation first came out in the manga there were quite a few who were skeptical and displeased with the plot twist. Though I think that like many others, when it's clarified in the next few episodes you may see it in a newfound perspective. It is quite cliche, but just because it is doesn't mean it's bad - rather, it's the way that Gorilla approaches this commonly used trope to separate himself from the rest. It's most definitely risky to take on such a tactic, yet this will only demonstrate further how his capabilities flourish as a writer. On the other hand, the anime will rush the details as they have with the chapters, which can't be helped, therefore you may want to read the manga for a better in depth explanation. Sorachi is exceptional at calculating the significance each character contributes to when involved in the plot. Nevertheless, the twist is definitely not as black and white as it appears. |
Chinadoll_ said: Nagirah said: I'm interested to hear what anime only people think about this plot twist. jal90 said: Honestly? One of the most flagrant betrayals to the spirit of Gintama I have ever witnessed in this show. I hope everything is a lie, or a trick or something like that, because otherwise I don't know why the hell is a series that has explicitly criticized and parodied the cheap "familiar villain" plot twists (hi, Tama Quest) indulging in, precisely, a cheap familiar villain plot twist. I understand your reservations, when the revelation first came out in the manga there were quite a few who were skeptical and displeased with the plot twist. Though I think that like many others, when it's clarified in the next few episodes you may see it in a newfound perspective. It is quite cliche, but just because it is doesn't mean it's bad - rather, it's the way that Gorilla approaches this commonly used trope to separate himself from the rest. It's most definitely risky to take on such a tactic, yet this will only demonstrate further how his capabilities flourish as a writer. On the other hand, the anime will rush the details as they have with the chapters, which can't be helped, therefore you may want to read the manga for a better in depth explanation. Sorachi is exceptional at calculating the significance each character contributes to when involved in the plot. Nevertheless, the twist is definitely not as black and white as it appears. The explanations for Utsuro start around beginning chapters of 3rd serious arc, and considering this season is ending in 2 episodes, I doubt they will touch on a new arc at all. Maybe just a promo or some pics to announce it so fans can be sure that they'll come back and finish animating. Ppl here will either have to read the manga for explanations or just wait for new season. |
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ColdBreeze said: from what im getting out of it (ill spoiler tag it just cause but i havent read past it so its not a real spoiler just speculation) I read that Utsuro is NOT Shoyo after all. But this makes me more curious now. so if that line of thinking winds up being correct, they arent the same person |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| Come on guys. Fucking spoilers! Barion-Zara said: (...) And Gin's ITTAI DARE NANDAAAAAAA was amazing. Props to Sugita as usual That scream should've been the closing moment overlapping both the OST and Shoyo's face. |
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| Holy mother of God... |
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| I was spoilered about Utsuro's identity/face ages ago and have been pissed about it ever since but knowing who he was actually improved my viewing experience for this episode? Made me feel a lot more tense/depressed during his scenes pre-reveal. I thankfully knew nothing else about him before this episode so I still had a few questions answered. Great episode with awesome fighting scenes. |
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| Why Why I don't want to just jump into the conclusion, and I mean I've sorta seen it coming from all the foreshadowing OP, but I still... not sure how to react to the reveal. Just like one of the user has said, IF it's really what I thought it is, then I'll feel really betrayed by the series. I really hope Sorachi had done enough justice for this reveal. I've shed like a thousand years worth of tears on that SA flashback ep, dammit. And the animation is kinda sloppy (again) for this ep, excluding the last part... That Gintoki vs Utsuro is seriously badass though, and yep I totally love how Gin's so quickly to recover and just slash him without a doubt. I'm glad he didn't stop to be drown in a sad puddle etc etc. For this one I really have to applaude you, Sorachi. You've made one hell of a character and I love it. By the way, my OkiKagu soul is roaring again, it seems. The way Sougo reacted when Nobume point her sword to Kagura is just adshgdsjfhasdgkaahjsdfkasu hahah xD next ep preview seems to be filled with another feels attack so I guess I'll have to prepare myself... |
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| Shoya sensei WHYY T____________T |
| That was.......pretty darned surprising. I loved the reveal with the OST. I really wasn't expecting to be impressed by the episode like that. Really great stuff. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
| It's so epic... manly tears overflowing... |
| Wow, as a Anime only I did not see this coming (But I'm really careful with spoilers, too). This was simplay the most amazing shit I've ever seen in any show. I could not close my mouth during the whole episode. The whole package was a masterpiece of art. Literally just listening to this episode would fill you with goosebumps!! The voice acting was damn epic, and the BGM was splendid and always AND that boss-like theme. Super fitting. Shivering guaranteed! The fucking Tendoushi coming down to mess with Gintoki and everyone. And what a mess it was, nobody stands a freaking chance and they barely get away working together. The animation was awesome, I'm not someone who whines if some scenes arent animated perfectly, keep it real everyone, no company would give the budget for that. I didn't see a flaw in animation during the episode and it had me speechless the whole time, so it's perfect :) And I don't even know what to say about this plottwist. Unfortunately it seems that we won't get to know who that really is before the anime ends for some time :( But Gintama isn't an anime that would bring someone back to life who was beheaded, so there must be some other story about him. But who knows. It's a freaking Tendousho, they have access to whatever alien technology may exist, so we will see. This is definitely one of, if not, the best episode of Gintama in terms of storyline yet! |
<3 <3 <3 Kei is love <3 <3 <3 |
| I watch/read both concurrently, but I actually try to keep the anime ahead, because I prefer it slightly. Sometimes I can't help myself or doubt Gintama's continuance, and then I'm further ahead in the manga (like for the comedy arcs and part of this arc) For this episode, I'm on anime first. You (people who know what happens) aren't as subtle as you think you are, because even confirming that something is a spoiler is enough (ex: "title of SA/FA arc is a spoiler" could've just been gintama trolling, but once you say it, no hope left). Saw this coming - should really stay away from the forums, but it was a fantastic reveal regardless. And Nobume confirms in ep that Utsuro is not the same as Shoyo, so pay attention, c'mon. What I really didn't expect - that was some serious outclassing! I don't like that Gintoki wasn't just as crazy outclassed when he and Sougo have faced off before, but at least they justified it a bit. Not enough though, imo. Plus it was shitty that Kagura, Nobume, and Sougo were used to show how strong Gin is, in that typical move where the boss wipes the floor with a known badass just to show off the MC. The healing factor seems like a power that belongs in another show. Still love it, but is this really Gintama? Is it b/c DGM is coming back? Do you want of your own? Best episode of the arc thus far 5/5. |
spin_rouxMar 17, 2016 12:02 AM
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