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| Stabbed in the back by your own student with your own gift. Mocked by your servant too. Kariya must be pleased. |
| "Let Justice Be Done!" My Theme Fight again, fight again for justice! |
guyklc said: This. Totally this. But Gilgamesh was still a an asshole not to help his Master. How did he get the Knight title at all? And Kotomine being Rin's father's murderer is so cruel..Ahahahaha! Tokiomi totally deserved what happened to him! The last look on his face was priceless, absolutely priceless. The only shame is that it wasn't Kariya who stabbed him. |
MeritasSep 12, 2014 3:40 PM
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AnarchicSloth said: Archer's one of the Knight classes, that's what I meant.Also Gilgamesh didn't help because Tokiomi was going to sacrifice him anyways. |
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Meritas said: Has nothing to do with honor.The classes dont care about that.AnarchicSloth said: Archer's one of the Knight classes, that's what I meant.Also Gilgamesh didn't help because Tokiomi was going to sacrifice him anyways. |
| Independent Action A+ and Gil's personality = Don't fuck with Gil even if you are his "Master." |
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| Dont fuckwith him even if he has no Independent Action. |
ssjokg said: Well yes but if you are a stupid magus who thinks being a "Master" means anything you better be prepared for a trip to hell.Dont fuckwith him even if he has no Independent Action. |
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| And there goes Rin's dad. Stabbed in the back by his own apprentice... a truly pathetic end for this heartless man. |
| Damn, I know F/SN mentioned how Kirei killed Tokiomi, but I honestly entirely forgot about it until the last quarter of this episode. Then I had the hugest "oh shit" moment and the rest of the episode was filled with intense anxiety followed by shouting "OH HEAVENS TOKIOMI NO" when he gave Kirei the Azoth dagger. I honestly liked Tokiomi, too, but this is the beginning of Kirei's descent his own destruction, so it was a beautiful scene all the same. |
 ☩ Discord: the.path.to.pathos ☩ RateYourMusic ☩ last.fm |
Me during this episode: |
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| 5/5 Episode very slow but good to the upheavals that occurred in history, now begins the best part of the TV series. Poor Tokiomi, you felt too secure and instead Kirei is very clever. Very beautiful drawings. |
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| This is the most ironic episode in relation to the fate route. |
 Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
| to echo Gilgamesh: that was disappointing. I knew this was coming, but even I had no idea that the backstabbing would be so literal. Tokiomi even provided the knife, talk about irony. I know Tokiomi wasn't a great guy, and giving Sakura away certainly didn't earn him any brownie points... but still, he was the most talented mage in this war and he went down without a fight. he wasn't an inherent bad guy you know, he did care for his family(I think?), but he was slave to his circumstances. Yes, he conformed to age-old traditions of his family, but that made him weak-willed and was most definitely not deserving of the end he received. I was preparing jokes for when he died, but now I can't. I feel sorry for the guy after all. :( But this is what separates Zero from FSN. instead of Masters and Servants battling it out with each other we see treachery, coercion, mixed with utter ruthlessness and an absolute lack of morals take its place. the last two episodes are the perfect examples, as Kiritsugu and Kirei take out their targets using methods as underhanded as possible. |
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| Kayneth was more talented as a mage, actually. |
R2 said: to echo Gilgamesh: that was disappointing. I knew this was coming, but even I had no idea that the backstabbing would be so literal. Tokiomi even provided the knife, talk about irony. I know Tokiomi wasn't a great guy, and giving Sakura away certainly didn't earn him any brownie points... but still, he was the most talented mage in this war and he went down without a fight. he wasn't an inherent bad guy you know, he did care for his family(I think?), but he was slave to his circumstances. Yes, he conformed to age-old traditions of his family, but that made him weak-willed and was most definitely not deserving of the end he received. I was preparing jokes for when he died, but now I can't. I feel sorry for the guy after all. :( But this is what separates Zero from FSN. instead of Masters and Servants battling it out with each other we see treachery, coercion, mixed with utter ruthlessness and an absolute lack of morals take its place. the last two episodes are the perfect examples, as Kiritsugu and Kirei take out their targets using methods as underhanded as possible. Enough things separate F/Z from F/SN that to expect one to be like the other only results in a tragic failure of impossible expectations for the viewer. F/Z has an ensemble cast, F/SN focuses on a smaller group (though the composition of said group changes with each route). F/Z heavily focuses on the Grail War, F/SN uses the Grail War as a setting and premise while it focuses on the development of characters, their personalities, and commentary and analysis on what it means to be a hero (and the perspective of that analysis evolves as you go through each route). While F/Z does focus on some themes and some of the cast and their personalities, the war is what ultimately takes center stage. F/SN is less concerned about the war itself. F/Z's narrative is contained within one plotline, while F/SN is split into three with each successive route building upon the ideas and details of the previous. If someone goes into F/SN expecting a F/Z 2 and have the audacity to complain to F/SN fans why F/SN isn't like F/Z, they will find no sympathy. |
ZeroDragonJan 29, 2015 8:52 PM
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R2 said: to echo Gilgamesh: that was disappointing. I knew this was coming, but even I had no idea that the backstabbing would be so literal. Tokiomi even provided the knife, talk about irony. I know Tokiomi wasn't a great guy, and giving Sakura away certainly didn't earn him any brownie points... but still, he was the most talented mage in this war and he went down without a fight wut I'm going to have to stop you right there. Let's set aside for a moment the fact that Kayneth is vastly more powerful as a magus. Let's just focus on our friend Tokiomi for a second. This man went in with arguably the best planning for the war. He had the most powerful servant, he was the only one allied with another master, he pulled off his opening ruse flawlessly, he had the best intelligence, having full knowledge of every master's hideout for the entire first half of the show, and let's not forget, he was being aided by the overseer. The whole fucking game was rigged in his favor! And yet, despite all that, he died and lost the war. How inept do you have to be to lose the war with pretty much every imaginable advantage stacked in your favor? It is mind boggling how badly he screwed everything up right when it counts. And it's not like these developments came out of nowhere. Well, I mean, I guess they seemed like they came out of nowhere to him, but the point is, he lost the war because of his own stupid decisions. Even as Kirei was twisting the knife, Tokiomi was not thinking, "et tu, Brute?" He was wondering what the fuck was happening! Even in his dying moment, it still had not clicked in his tiny little brain that Kirei had betrayed him, much less never been on his side in the first place. Even as the knife slipped between his ribs, he was trying to figure out who the fuck this guy is and why his Kirei cosplay is so dang good, because even then, his brain was simply too small to even consider the idea that Kirei might ever betray him. So you'll have to forgive me when I say I completely disagree with you, and think that you're either horribly deluded or just plain full of shit. The guy was an idiot who deserved to die, in the way that people who play with live landmines for shits and giggles deserve to die. But I'm a nice guy so I'll still read the rest of your post. R2 said: he wasn't an inherent bad guy you know, he did care for his family(I think?), but he was slave to his circumstances. Yes, he conformed to age-old traditions of his family, but that made him weak-willed and was most definitely not deserving of the end he received. I was preparing jokes for when he died, but now I can't. I feel sorry for the guy after all. :( He may not be evil, but his idiocy is a blight that needed to be wiped from the earth. R2 said: But this is what separates Zero from FSN. instead of Masters and Servants battling it out with each other we see treachery, coercion, mixed with utter ruthlessness and an absolute lack of morals take its place. the last two episodes are the perfect examples, as Kiritsugu and Kirei take out their targets using methods as underhanded as possible. ... ...and I regret continuing to read. UBW alone has, in one way or another, all of those things. It's because of people like you who post things like this that I can't put up legitimate arguments for why F/Z is better than F/SN and expect to be taken seriously. |
| I was going to list all the "treachery, coercion, mixed with utter ruthlessness and an absolute lack of morals" scenes in UBW but whatever. The age gap is more of a problem... |
| I did feel like a bit of a stretch sometimes that 4/7 of the masters in stay night are directly related to school. |
Anime is good, fucking deal with it. |
black1blade said: [spoiler] 5 actually but 4 of them are related to the founding families and the last war. The 5th is a teacher.I did feel like a bit of a stretch sometimes that 4/7 of the masters in stay night are directly related to school. |
| why does everyone keep on saying UBW this and UBW that? there's a perfectly good example, of just fsn that came out quite a few years ago before this. I suppose I could have offended fans with my lack of knowledge of fate verse and siding with Tokiomi. and then there is the fact that I watched fsn quite a few years ago, so my comparisons are biased, but as far as I remember |
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| >Taking DEEN F/SN as representative of the actual F/SN. It's a crap adaptation. >Thinking there's only one route in F/SN. There are two other routes where things like what you mentioned do happen. |
R2 said: why does everyone keep on saying UBW this and UBW that? there's a perfectly good example, of just fsn that came out quite a few years ago before this. Because aside from that example being irrelevant for a long list of reasons, UBW is a counterexample that contains all of the things you just said F/SN doesn't have. |
| Wouldn't a simple link to the FAQ and telling him to read the foreword have been a lot better than screaming at him? Just a suggestion. |
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StrayBotato said: Wouldn't a simple link to the FAQ and telling him to read the foreword have been a lot better than screaming at him? Just a suggestion. Get out |
StrayBotato said: Wouldn't a simple link to the FAQ and telling him to read the foreword have been a lot better than screaming at him? MY HERO!!!! fst said: R2 said: why does everyone keep on saying UBW this and UBW that? there's a perfectly good example, of just fsn that came out quite a few years ago before this. Because aside from that example being irrelevant for a long list of reasons, UBW is a counterexample that contains all of the things you just said F/SN doesn't have. but the thing is, I did clearly mention in my original post how Zero and FSN differed from each other. So how could anyone think I was comparing it to the UBW one? and even if you were confused, simply opening my anime list would have told you that I haven't yet started watching UBW(except for the prologue). |
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R2 said: StrayBotato said: Wouldn't a simple link to the FAQ and telling him to read the foreword have been a lot better than screaming at him? MY HERO!!!! fst said: Because aside from that example being irrelevant for a long list of reasons, UBW is a counterexample that contains all of the things you just said F/SN doesn't have. but the thing is, I did clearly mention in my original post how Zero and FSN differed from each other. So how could anyone think I was comparing it to the UBW one? and even if you were confused, simply opening my anime list would have told you that I haven't yet started watching UBW(except for the prologue). Saying FSN doesn't mean anything UBW is part of FSN. Fate (2006 anime) is part of FSN . If you say FSN 99% of people are going to assume UBW because it's the new one. The 2006 anime is shit and not even cannon at this point. (if it ever was considering how badly it butchered everything) |
nocorrasJan 30, 2015 10:31 AM
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| I can't believe someone actually made an FAQ. ^_^ However, I now understand the problems and why me saying FSN confused(insulted) everyone. but since most of the ubw differences are in spoilers, I have to see it for myself to judge it. let's start! |
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R2 said: I can't believe someone actually made an FAQ. ^_^ However, I now understand the problems and why me saying FSN confused(insulted) everyone. but since most of the ubw differences are in spoilers, I have to see it for myself to judge it. let's start! It's a confusing franchise to get into because of a bad adaptation and the prequel coming out first. |
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nocorras said: R2 said: I can't believe someone actually made an FAQ. ^_^ However, I now understand the problems and why me saying FSN confused(insulted) everyone. but since most of the ubw differences are in spoilers, I have to see it for myself to judge it. let's start! It's a confusing franchise to get into because of a bad adaptation and the prequel coming out first. The aftershocks of DEEN's fuckup can still be felt today. |
fst said: nocorras said: It's a confusing franchise to get into because of a bad adaptation and the prequel coming out first. The aftershocks of DEEN's fuckup can still be felt today. Just think of what we could have if DEEN pulled Fate off. (or would that be worse because we might not get ufotable) |
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| in the end it was for the best. |
nocorras said: fst said: The aftershocks of DEEN's fuckup can still be felt today. Just think of what we could have if DEEN pulled Fate off. (or would that be worse because we might not get ufotable) Sacrifice and damn one route in order to grant two routes true salvation, or save the one route and prevent the others from attaining true salvation? |
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R2 said: I can't believe someone actually made an FAQ. ^_^ Yeah. It was tiring to see the priests answer the same questions repeatedly and to realize that many of those who were asking might not ever see the FAQ that was posted on Reddit (which I linked to as you most likely saw). |
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| Never thought I'd feel sad for Tokiomi. Prefer the blondie in spikes. He's less of a bastard that way. |
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| Another great character dies... It also seems Iri doesn't have much time left either. This season is way more exciting than the 1st one :D Can't wait to see Kiritsugu's backstory. |
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| Wow so many assholes in this show O_O |
| Finally the most boring character dies. |
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| Finally Gilgamesh and Kirei are master and servant! omggggg. |
| I like the complexity of the characters , until this moment i cant decide which master i would like to see winning , though i think i like Kiritsugu the most but the others are just as awesome , sadly one of them is gone now . ( What a great series ) Loved it |
| After watching this episode, I am glad that I didn't give the executor of my Will any type of dagger. When Tokiomi made his goodbye speech to Rin.......the Death Flag was flying high over him. |
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| [Re-watch | BD version] Another breath taking episode. This is the moment when Kirei embraces his dark side. The King of Heroes found his buffoon. The dialogs in this episode were amazing. So much meaning in all of them. Since Irisviel, to Tokiomi, to Kirei and then Gilgamesh. There was a strong irony, a poetic injustice... the gift Tokiomi gave to Kirei as thanks was also the very same that ended his life. Another one lays to the eternal rest... PD: As cleanup here's a happy Saber: |
| Poor Tokiomi, never understood Kirei. Kirei and Gilgamesh team is far superior than any other. |
| So Kirei tells Archer that Tokio plans to make Archer commit suicide since all servants have to be eliminated in order to activate the Holy Grail, then chooses to have Kirei as his master when shouldn't it be no different? Okay. |
| Well shit, the guy was heartless and probably will regret shit later. |
 Behold of my awesomeness~ controversial and/or sensitive topics likely devolve into the same repetitive, derogatory, abusive, and harassing comments can no longer be posted. But my feels. |
| Kirei finally showed his true colors. Damn Tohsaka dies just like that? I wonder if Rin will learn of his death in the near future? Man this is getting intense. Can't wait for the next episode! |
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