Babylon Episode 4 Discussion

Daniel_Naumov said:
I will list several interesting details and symbolism. In the meantime, can anyone make out what is the female voice whispering right in the end of the opening?

5:40 there is a talk on how passing assisted-suicide laws is easier since many other countries have already done so. The focus suddenly switches to a litter bin which has a lot of cans lying around, not in the litter bin itself. It is an obvious allusion to how it is easier for an individual to do bad things (everyone knows how littering and not delivering your garbage to the proper destination is frowned upon and regulated in the society, yet when people see a full litter bin and a lot of trash lying around they will feel it easier to do the same, namingly to avoid going through with proper protocols despite the opposite being a morally wrong action - diffusion of responsibility. However, there is more subtle implication, that might explain this precise choice of an allegory - the whole idea of assisted suicide is just trash. At least authors make their stance clear.

Pin_pyo said:
Sekuros prolly Magase Ai. Look at those boobs, thats the commonality between all these 4 ladies (the short hair, the blue-eyed long hair, the long black haired girl and now this lawyer).

is this Shiniki city supposed to be north korea that the people just follow along this suicide scheme willy nilly? This itsuki dude just assumed power for the first time, without previous accomplishments to show for it, introduced the sickest law just as he was inducted into office and people aren't rioting or trying to impeach him? Is this a joke? I know how they introduced shiniki city as ‘independent’ but srsly... its still part of japan and all laws must not contradict japans constitution. Plus, controversial laws should be reviewed by japans supreme court. The executive branch of the city might be led by some psycho but there are always other branches of the govt that perform checks and balances.

Daniel_Naumov said:
However, there is more subtle implication, that might explain this precise choice of an allegory - the whole idea of assisted suicide is just trash. At least authors make their stance clear.

Daniel_Naumov said:
This is episode 4 and we (the characters) are still playing the laws and politics game. They represent order, they are trying to corner an antagonist by avoiding extreme actions or unlawful conduct, which could damage the society even further. Soon they will realize they are dealing with insanity which has no interest in their artificial constraints. The old-goon politician himself is underestimating Itsuki greatly, calling him "young" - he represents a stupid, complacent politician who is stuck in his own reality and refuses to accept whatever might contradict it. Hardliners which are widely present in Japan's political (pseudo) elite today.

Piromysl said:
The plot thickens. Pity, that there is little action in this show, but it still has it's ways to keep you in the seat's edge.

SithSteel said:

Yeah, what's really confusing (i.e. silly) is that the mayor managed to institute a law without a legislative branch. I like this show, but, like, what? That shit makes no sense. It makes me wonder if Seizaki's statement of "I don't understand politics" is the original author poking his head into the story a little bit. Probably not, but its more than a little weird. Like, this isn't some change to the sales tax. Its a law on suicide.


Its a bit of a straw man since those who support assisted suicide wouldn't ever think Itsuki's method is acceptable. The dude is more like a Disney villain than a supporter of a policy that the author, or whoever, doesn't like. Reminds me of the fearmongering in regards to legalizing same-sex marriage. "If we let gays marry we'll all be forced to do the same!" is similar to "If we legalize assisted suicide then people are going to start throwing themselves in front of trains all willy nilly and children will grow up without parents. Mwahahahahaha!" Not exactly a nuanced discussion.

Of course, it may be too early to be making assumptions on the author's intentions or political beliefs.


I can't speak on behalf of Japan, but I worry about what road a society goes down when the Law decides to ignore the law in order to achieve their own political ends. It may just be me, but I found it concerning that Seizaki straight up said that the goal of the task force was to arrest Itsuki rather than to find out if he broke the law. Sure, Nomaru IS a self-involved old coot who was willing to rig an election to implement his awful conception of a nation, but I think he's right to choose to challenge Itsuki politically. It'll be a big letdown if the story deals with Itsuki by having him killed at the hands of our righteous protagonists.


Personally, I like it that way. The life of a public prosecutor shouldn't really involve a gun.

Piromysl said:
The plot thickens. Pity, that there is little action in this show, but it still has it's ways to keep you in the seat's edge.

Judgment526 said:


Could also be a red herring. I don’t fully trust her yet either, but I also feel like having her be Magase Ai might be a bit too predictable given what we already know about her.

Daniel_Naumov said:

Of course, no one is questioning that the law is still supreme and is needed to preserve order and society. But the problem is that here the antagonists had already gone beyond the law, Itsuki (Magase Ai) is making people suicide, while he claims it is their right to. Seizaki has at least one evidence to that he had definitely broken a law - his colleague was "hypnotized" during interrogation of Magase Ai and then committed suicide just a day after? No one seen any signs and suddenly he is happily jumping from the Babylon tower. Even if he can't connect it through material evidence, Seizaki clearly sees that they have orchestrated a lot of suicides lately. And there is no telling whether people who actually jumped that day were not also hypnotized or something. Besides I believe they still do not grasp the whole problem - this is not a political struggle, I assume Itsuki is long gone already, or in a similar state to that university professor they've found as the first victim. Magase Ai is clearly (to me) controlling the whole scheme and she does not care about laws or stuff. This is a holy war on society (on male dominant Japanese society), though it might sound unsubstantial at that point. We will just have to see.

Daniel_Naumov said:

The problem is exactly that - they do not know through what means Magase Ai made her victims commit suicide.

operationvalkyri said:
Did they just take a dig at the dead guy, Fumio?

I'm wondering how much of a deterrent suicide being illegal is, to those wanting to kill themselves. Are they afraid of the police arresting their corpses after they're dead? Religion probably helps stop suicide more than law since it makes people believe that their souls won't cross over or they'd go to hell. An interesting concept.

phynto said:
My very first thought was that the female assistant was Ai, but I suppose we'll find out in a later episode.

RealMTL said:


I was thinking the same thing. But only time will tell.

Also I'm surprised by how much I'm getting into this show. The world building is pretty dope considering it made me care about fictional politics.

operationvalkyri said:
Did they just take a dig at the dead guy, Fumio?

I'm wondering how much of a deterrent suicide being illegal is, to those wanting to kill themselves. Are they afraid of the police arresting their corpses after they're dead? Religion probably helps stop suicide more than law since it makes people believe that their souls won't cross over or they'd go to hell. An interesting concept.