| I don't know why dimwits keep classifying Shonen as a Shonen, it's only a demographic not a genre. This is the same for these so-called genres like fantasy, and game. Those are themes not genres. Anyways, what's your opinon about this? Do you think Shonen is a genre? If you do(for some ungodly reason) please provide some good reasons why you think that. |
XxHiketsuXxSep 22, 2015 9:19 PM
"When a man learns to love, he must bear the risk of hatred....." - Obito Uchiha  |
| Ignorance. |
| Shounen is a demographic like you said. But when people says that something is too much of a shounen they're referring to action being prioritized over any other aspect of the show or the fact that they use to deal with similar topics such as the power of friendship, exaggerated self-improvement, coping with a trauma (like the cliché of having your mother killed by a monster), melodramatic deaths, males getting surrounded by girls but not even a single relationship getting any depth, etc. Edit. The better shounens are those that are not even tagged like that but if you want to be picky they'd still be shounens. |
 |
TonyTheme said: Ignorance. |
| MAL lists it as a genre because for some reason they don't want to bother separating the two. A lot of genres on MAL aren't even genres, many are themes. People believe whatever they read these days and MAL is fairly popular source for anime information. |
| It's not but they're probably talking about a shitload of cliches that plague the genre. OP MC+super powers+power of friendship seems to be the mandatory formula if you want to make a best-selling franchise, be it a battle shonen, sports or whatever. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
| It's a demographic - in this case that demographic is young males. It comes from the literal meaning of the word shonen. It's not a genre, like "Fantasy", "Adventure", or "Mystery" are genres. As for why people think it is, I would say they don't know any better or simply don't care. |
| Well then MAL places demographics just as if they were genres. And in the long term, this words use to have the meaning you want to give them, not for ignorance but for mere convenience. |
|
j0x said: LMAO, xinil need read this.blame MAL the website itself for listing it as a genre |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Lordwen said: Well then MAL places demographics just as if they were genres. And in the long term, this words use to have the meaning you want to give them, not for ignorance but for mere convenience. |
 |
| I wish I was a shounen. |
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Tylaen said: I wish I was a shounen. shinwa ni nare |
 |
| I would consider "battle shounen" a genre; I think that's what most think of when they use shounen in a genre sense. I know it's a demographic, and I personally don't use it in a genre sense, but would it kill people to be a bit less obnoxious about it? |
TripleSRank said: can you discribe what is battle shounen genre? what differentiate it with another action series? how about battle seinen? or battle shoujo?I would consider "battle shounen" a genre; I think that's what most think of when they use shounen in a genre sense. I know it's a demographic, and I personally don't use it in a genre sense, but would it kill people to be a bit less obnoxious about it? |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
absentminded said: TripleSRank said: can you discribe what is battle shounen genre? what differentiate it with another action series? how about battle seinen? or battle shoujo?I would consider "battle shounen" a genre; I think that's what most think of when they use shounen in a genre sense. I know it's a demographic, and I personally don't use it in a genre sense, but would it kill people to be a bit less obnoxious about it? battle shounen would be an anime targeted at young boys where fighting and battles have a major role. I'd say Cardcaptor Sakura and Precure are fighting/battle mahou shoujo (has fighting sequences) while Full Moon wo Sagashite is just a mahou shoujo. |
LainSep 22, 2015 8:48 PM
絶対大丈夫だよ  |
Lain_ said: it's still demographic by that definition but have action genre. absentminded said: battle shounen would be an anime targeted at young boys where fighting and battles have a major role. I'd say Cardcaptor Sakura is a battle mahou shoujo (has fighting sequences) while Full Moon wo Sagashite is just a mahou shoujo.can you discribe what is battle shounen genre? what differentiate it with another action series? how about battle seinen? or battle shoujo? and how about silor moon? and pretty cure? |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
absentminded said: Lain_ said: it's still demographic by that definition but have action genre. battle shounen would be an anime targeted at young boys where fighting and battles have a major role. I'd say Cardcaptor Sakura is a battle mahou shoujo (has fighting sequences) while Full Moon wo Sagashite is just a mahou shoujo. and how about silor moon? and pretty cure? basically yes. so I usually say "I am not into action shounen", though there are some I like, just not the majority precure and sailor moon would also be battle/action shoujos in my opinion. CCS was just the first one coming to mind |
絶対大丈夫だよ |
absentminded said: Lain_ said: it's still demographic by that definition but have action genre. battle shounen would be an anime targeted at young boys where fighting and battles have a major role. I'd say Cardcaptor Sakura is a battle mahou shoujo (has fighting sequences) while Full Moon wo Sagashite is just a mahou shoujo. and how about silor moon? and pretty cure? I'd say it's more about the tropes and cliches that those series generally follow and have that people call them battle shounens. Honestly never seen anyone call any action seinen shows "battle seinen" or shoujos. |
Lain_ said: basically yes. so I usually say "I am not into action shounen", though there are some I like, just not the majority precure and sailor moon would also be battle/action shoujos in my opinion. CCS was just the first one coming to mind Paul said: what's the different between battle shounen and battle seinen? honestly. i don't even know it. and soo many exception in each of it. what called battle shounen tropes mostly having by only those mainstram ones. heck even some semi mainstream battle shounen don't have that many tropes.I'd say it's more about the tropes and cliches that those series generally follow and have that people call them battle shounens. Honestly never seen anyone call any action seinen shows "battle seinen" or shoujos. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
absentminded said: Lain_ said: basically yes. so I usually say "I am not into action shounen", though there are some I like, just not the majority precure and sailor moon would also be battle/action shoujos in my opinion. CCS was just the first one coming to mind Paul said: what's the different between battle shounen and battle seinen? honestly. i don't even know it. and soo many exception in each of it. what called battle shounen tropes mostly having by only those mainstram ones. heck even some semi mainstream battle shounen don't have that many tropes.I'd say it's more about the tropes and cliches that those series generally follow and have that people call them battle shounens. Honestly never seen anyone call any action seinen shows "battle seinen" or shoujos. The level of maturity in content. At least in more modern titles before Japan starting throwing out all those censorship laws. |
Jerkhov said: Tylaen said: I wish I was a shounen. shinwa ni nare Goddamn it, Anno. Stop browsing the MAL forums. |
Paul said: again, manga or anime? there is a shounen when one of main character is a rape victim. also violance jack (part of devilman series) is more mature than berserk, and it's a shounen.absentminded said: The level of maturity in content. At least in more modern titles before Japan starting throwing out all those censorship laws.what's the different between battle shounen and battle seinen? honestly. i don't even know it. and soo many exception in each of it. what called battle shounen tropes mostly having by only those mainstram ones. heck even some semi mainstream battle shounen don't have that many tropes. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
absentminded said: Paul said: again, manga or anime? there is a shounen when one of main character is a rape victim. also violance jack (part of devilman series) is more mature than berserk, and it's a shounen.The level of maturity in content. At least in more modern titles before Japan starting throwing out all those censorship laws. Both. And again, as I said, before Japan staring throwing out all those censorship laws. You won't find the level of gore and violence you see in older shounen that you do in modern shounen. Hunter x Hunter and JoJo for example are old remade series and are far more gruelsome than any new or recent shounen you see these days. Fist of the North Star had guys blasting body parts off and shit but you won't see that anymore in modern shounen. |
absentminded said: j0x said: LMAO, xinil need read this.blame MAL the website itself for listing it as a genre He wouldn't care though... |
 |
| Until majority of manga and anime sites stop putting shounen tag in their "genre" searching, you can't expect some people to instantly get your message. Many anime watchers are casual folks who don't even care what genres the shows they're watching fall into, let alone such little insignificant thing like this so-called "shounen" genre. |
Jerkhov said: Tylaen said: I wish I was a shounen. shinwa ni nare +1. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Paul said: how about late night shounen? like akame ga kill, SNK, deadman wonderland, or claymore?absentminded said: Both. And again, as I said, before Japan staring throwing out all those censorship laws. again, manga or anime? there is a shounen when one of main character is a rape victim. also violance jack (part of devilman series) is more mature than berserk, and it's a shounen. You won't find the level of gore and violence you see in older shounen that you do in modern shounen. Hunter x Hunter and JoJo for example are old remade series and are far more gruelsome than any new or recent shounen you see these days. Fist of the North Star had guys blasting body parts off and shit but you won't see that anymore in modern shounen. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
absentminded said: Paul said: how about late night shounen? like akame ga kill, SNK, deadman wonderland, or claymore?Both. And again, as I said, before Japan staring throwing out all those censorship laws. You won't find the level of gore and violence you see in older shounen that you do in modern shounen. Hunter x Hunter and JoJo for example are old remade series and are far more gruelsome than any new or recent shounen you see these days. Fist of the North Star had guys blasting body parts off and shit but you won't see that anymore in modern shounen. I would definitely count AkG and SnK as shounen. Though not as battle shounen. They have a lot of gore and blood, but honestly, it's not really anything since it doesn't really show anything but the blood. Even in something like Naruto you got characters doing attacks that leave a hole in them or Bleach with characters cutting arms off. Despite being a shounen jump series, I hear Claymore can be debated being closer to seinen? I don't know since I never read the manga and dropped the anime very early. Deadman Wonderland while it has pretty high level gore, at least from what I can remember, falls short of being anything but mindless gore. And in that sense, I find it childish compare to something like Parasyte. Not sure if I would consider Deadman a battle shounen either, though I never read the manga and found the anime to be nothing but gorefest fanservice. |
| Idiocy. Duh. |
 |
Paul said: i heard right after anime ended, it become political stuff. did it still not included?I would definitely count AkG and SnK as shounen. Though not as battle shounen. They have a lot of gore and blood, but honestly, it's not really anything since it doesn't really show anything but the blood. Even in something like Naruto you got characters doing attacks that leave a hole in them or Bleach with characters cutting arms off. Paul said: it's jump squere, and it's clearly shounen. Despite being a shounen jump series, I hear Claymore can be debated being closer to seinen? I don't know since I never read the manga and dropped the anime very early. Paul said: seinen also have it. i found many seinen series is just emo angst late teen. when many shounen have non mature in surface, but if you thinking again about it, it has many meaning behind it. when seinen is literaly but nothing too. soo many things is twisted and exception. that's why i don't understand why people prised seinen like it's sience book when shonen treated like child book.Deadman Wonderland while it has pretty high level gore, at least from what I can remember, falls short of being anything but mindless gore. And in that sense, I find it childish compare to something like Parasyte. Not sure if I would consider Deadman a battle shounen either, though I never read the manga and found the anime to be nothing but gorefest fanservice. |
"If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
Lain_ said: absentminded said: can you discribe what is battle shounen genre? what differentiate it with another action series? how about battle seinen? or battle shoujo? battle shounen would be an anime targeted at young boys where fighting and battles have a major role. I'd say Cardcaptor Sakura and Precure are fighting/battle mahou shoujo (has fighting sequences) while Full Moon wo Sagashite is just a mahou shoujo. edit: Correct. People who are wrong OP, they falsely tag shounen with battle in it's forefront(outside of plot, characters, themes in the like, of course) as "battle shounen" genre. But it's just "shonen" demographic with "battles" in the forefront. You can use them under the "action" genre instead. Paul said: absentminded said: how about late night shounen? like akame ga kill, SNK, deadman wonderland, or claymore? I would definitely count AkG and SnK as shounen. Though not as battle shounen. They have a lot of gore and blood, but honestly, it's not really anything since it doesn't really show anything but the blood. Even in something like Naruto you got characters doing attacks that leave a hole in them or Bleach with characters cutting arms off. Despite being a shounen jump series, I hear Claymore can be debated being closer to seinen? I don't know since I never read the manga and dropped the anime very early. Deadman Wonderland while it has pretty high level gore, at least from what I can remember, falls short of being anything but mindless gore. And in that sense, I find it childish compare to something like Parasyte. Not sure if I would consider Deadman a battle shounen either, though I never read the manga and found the anime to be nothing but gorefest fanservice. Attack on Titan runs in a shounen magzine(doesn't automatically makes it shonen) and is targeted towards a shonen audience(automatically makes it shounen), so it's shounen. Well..at least that's what I got from google. Demographics don't really matter too much, it's better off just not paying attention to them. They aren't mutually exclusive, they are just aimed at difference audiences. I guess it's usually just a marketing type thing. You can't actually argue shounen being a genre tho lmao, but "battle shounen" works if we're assuming that just means "action manga(genre)" that's "shounen(demographic"). Battle shounen obviously have stories(the more popular MAL ones, One Piece, Naruto, Fairy Tail), though. They just focus on battling on the forefront, they aren't more important than the story, they run together. People who use it negatively have had negative experience with it is all. They are unarguably wrong, though. I think. |
ashfrliebertSep 22, 2015 10:50 PM
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
Paul said: absentminded said: it's still demographic by that definition but have action genre. and how about silor moon? and pretty cure? I'd say it's more about the tropes and cliches that those series generally follow and have that people call them battle shounens. Honestly never seen anyone call any action seinen shows "battle seinen" or shoujos. Agreed. There is a rather codified genre, that is often referred to as "shounen" or "battle shounen", where the characters spend most of their time fighting with whatever combat system author likes (from god-level magic mecha to cooking), training and overcoming hardships with strength of will. Famous works in the genre include DBZ, Naruto, Bleach and One Piece. Battle shounen is not the same as just action/fighting + shounen target audience. I think the most important mark of the genre is that the MC starts as (talented) nobody, and becomes more and more awesome through training and fighting. Stuff like Hellsing or Overlord doesn't count. As for other similar genres, Magical Girl Warrior anime like Sailor Moon is quite similar, but aimed at girls. There, powerups come solely as a result of becoming a better person, not through suicidal training. |
| Ignorance and misguided vision of the anime world in general. |
 |
| I suppose Shoujo isn't a genre either. |
   I envy your delusion; I wish I could live in it  |
| Same as Young Adult Fiction, Child Literature, so they must put a Shonen to determine demographics. Some plebs just misunderstood genre from demographics |
| And I can ask why damn know-alls keep reminding us than shounen is a demographic, not a genre. K, we know it but people like to use shounen for battle shounens. |
Hazuk4shii said: And I can ask why damn know-alls keep reminding us than shounen is a demographic, not a genre. K, we know it but people like to use shounen for battle shounens. Agreed. That's about as annoying as grammar nazi. Even worse, it triggers a quarrel over whether some particular anime is shounen or seinen. (especially if it is a battle shounen that is targeted at younger part of seinen audience) |
| coz it is :^) |
| Twitter and it's consequences had been a disaster for the human race |
| It's officially listed as a genre worldwide |
| End Zionazism |
Hazuk4shii said: Then how about you use battle shounen? Not all people do know or we wouldn't get threads every day asking how is a certain anime a seinen if there's no blood or boobs, etc and there's a reason why the word for car, lettuce, and pooping is not the same thing because those are different things. Sure people can figure out from context clues what you meant but it could all be avoided by you using a different word that you're even saying is what you mean.And I can ask why damn know-alls keep reminding us than shounen is a demographic, not a genre. K, we know it but people like to use shounen for battle shounens. |
     Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
Protaku94 said: I suppose Shoujo isn't a genre either. Of course it isn't. |
Old_Raven said: Idiocy. Duh. Lack of proper knowledge more like. |
 All credit goes to Sacred. |
| [i]Who needs such childish shows like "Death Note" which is for kids? Seriously too many people watch those "shounens" lately, perhaps the people here are all kids?! Why don't people watch "seinen" shows for adults? Like the great seinen show "K-ON"? |
 |
| Acting like DN wasn't a teen's power fantasy show <' >_<' > |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Lain_ said: absentminded said: can you discribe what is battle shounen genre? what differentiate it with another action series? how about battle seinen? or battle shoujo? battle shounen would be an anime targeted at young boys where fighting and battles have a major role. I'd say Cardcaptor Sakura and Precure are fighting/battle mahou shoujo (has fighting sequences) while Full Moon wo Sagashite is just a mahou shoujo. More than that. Battle shounen tends to have a specific battle system that's an important part of the characters' lives. Action scenes don't just happen. Digimon, Medabots. being a ninja, being a mage are all part of the lifestyle. There also tends to be a hero's journey thing going on. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| Battle Shounen is a genre though. Fairy Tail, Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, and One Piece are all battle shounen. People usually just refer to battle shounen as simply "shounen". Demographics aren't always descriptive enough about a series' content either. Nana is part of the shoujo demographic but clearly it's content is josei, Gangsta is a seinen, but it's content is more shounen-esque and barely comparable to seinen like Monster. |
TheRefractingOne said: Have you ever thought that that's because there are no content limits for each demo? You mention Monster, one series, but Monster is clearly not of the seinen demo because it's content is nothing like K-ON, Hidamari Sketch, or A-channel.Battle Shounen is a genre though. Fairy Tail, Naruto, Hunter x Hunter, and One Piece are all battle shounen. People usually just refer to battle shounen as simply "shounen". Demographics aren't always descriptive enough about a series' content either. Nana is part of the shoujo demographic but clearly it's content is josei, Gangsta is a seinen, but it's content is more shounen-esque and barely comparable to seinen like Monster. |
Short of the day: Monotonous Purgatory(MAL) ✰Public Domain Club | One Piece Club✰ |
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