Undead Girl Murder Farce Episode 13 Discussion

Damn I was so close to figuring it out. I had already earlier was the only person here to notice how suspicious the footprints in Louise's room were and I even mentioned Louise might be a werewolf then later on I suspected Jutte survived and was behind the killings I just never figured out that Jutte, Nora and at one point Louise and Alma were all the same person because I thought someone would just notice since common sense would say they would but I considered the possibility of at least Nora possibly being Jutte because how the showing of the past scenes were desaturated as if to hide hair and eye colour. Only thing holding me back was figuring out the motive on why kill the innocent girls, since what would be the odds both small villages have multiple girls that all look enough alike?

While on one hand that was a clever plan it's also a terrible plan. Jutte/Nora endangered the few werewolves from the village she actually cared about. I also am uncertain on if that really was the only way being that Jutte/Nora is supposed to be so strong it's not clear if she could have single handedly stood up against the villagers and killed the old woman running things or not so it's not clear what her options were but I assume she couldnt from being so largely outnumbered likely inexperienced with fighting.

This show being a detective mystery but not quite feel like that because I feel you arent given quite enough information to figure anything out before Aya does just get kind of close at best. That isnt entirely bad thing just feels frustrating. This has some elements of a great show but it feels really off in some ways too.


Bothered me a bit how she seemingly glossed over her killing those innocent girls (except Louise who was not so innocent entirely and was fine with being killed anyway part from guilt, rejection, and being disabled) but still really there is nothing to gain from having Jutte/Nora killed or detained when she has no motive to do anything like that again. It also may be a problem with how the subbers phrased it so it would help if we had confirmation on what Aya said. Which is why she was more accepting with an act other than revenge because it shows she meant well though not the best plan and she poses no further threat that the truth is out so there is really nothing to gain for anyone to punish her., you only would have one more dead girl, while she isnt innocent that doesnt exactly mean she's guilty in the sense she was doing these things out of only malice. The purpose of judicial process should be to protect people not revenge and there is nothing to protect from at that point. Like Tsugaru said, Aya was trying to teach the villagers a lesson. Having any of either side go after her and nothing would be learned. Aya was admitting her own bias in a situation that to the viewer is meant to be viewed as morally grey in order to explain why she even bothered taking a side at all, she had no reason to have her killed or turned over and her being sympathetic to her just helps further explain her decision.


The system failed to achieve their desired goal. So why would nothing go changed? From the story they got Jutte sought revenge for the village that outcast her mother and Louise got revenge on the village that outcasst her so they would know they need to not make those of the villages want to do anything like that again. I think Aya meant change doesn't come easy, not that there absolutely nothing would ever change no matter what. I think she's basically talking about the nature of humans and monsters that they are resistant to change but she's suggesting she has hope for them regardless of her experience. It just isnt explicitly said, which i kind of feel it should have just been said more direct.


1 and 2 was explained several episodes ago any werewolf that leaves the village is hunted down and dragged back. Only way around that other than killing their leader that is guarded is to fake their death and to do that you need a body. Though that's assuming Jutte/Nora wasnt able to fight off a whole bunch of werewolves single handed to kill the woman making the rules and even then it's hard to say if things would be any different with her gone.
3. Alma had no family though and she was originally from outside the village. So who would even burry her and for who? Funerals are for the living to mourn not really for the dead outside of religious beliefs which we were give no indication of. Lake water burials are a thing too and actually can preserve bodies. So regardless it's not inherently disrespectful.
4. It's more about being driven by revenge, desperation and lack of options to choose from. It was either that or do nothing and in both cases she would be complacent in harm of others and only one also involved harming herself. Though the narrative is a bit oddly mixed since her motive obviously was partially out of revenge not just only trying to get some girls out of the village like what was later stated. Her being let go is inconsequential, she has no motive to kill more because her secret is out.

The solution is quite complicated so I really appreciate that Rindo actually explain TWICE of the same thing but in a different way, with the second time explaining in a chronological order. Lot of missing details but I don't consider it as plothole or blooper, just a limit of anime adaptation from novel.

While Rindo will most likely correct in assuming that nothing will change regarding the two villages, I prefer to view it with more optimism exit. My guesses 1. the breeding for the ultimate werewolf gene will continue, but the villagers won't force the girl to take a childbearing role anymore. 2. werewolf and human will continute to hate each other, but they won't attack each other, most likely because the werewolf village will isolated themselves again. 3. secret organizations will lose interest in werewolf village because they'll know that werewolves are not that strong, even the strongest werewolf, Nora, was taken down easily by Tsugaru despite fighting in the dark environment.

This anime is a surprise of the season, but sadly it's almost catch up to the novel which is the source material (even the manga adaptation doesn't reach this point yet). So yeah, several years is the minimum waiting time, if there'll ever be a sequel.

Well, a top 3 show of summer 2023 comes to a close and what a ride it’s been. This show simply put, just hit different and had an air of mysticism and fantasy to it that you don’t see a lot these days.

I think the combination of the somewhat modern setting and the magical elements along with the amazing cast were the big reasons. Also the fact it was adapted from a proper novel where writing tends to be more mature. I’m gonna miss Aya and Tsugaru jokes on Wednesdays 😭

Onto the episode itself, had a little of everything that makes this series so good. The shorter runtime concerned me a little at first, but the decision to open with the OP theme during a sakuga display was really cool. Carmilla and Shizuku in particular was awesome.

There’s so much unsaid sexual tension between the two of them that comes through in every scene. They paid off the fact that Shizuku wasn’t wearing underwear in a pretty funny way too. Carmilla lucky af for getting that view lmao.

And the culprit finally revealed! Wow what a twist, again, the author has such a good way of subverting expectations. I would’ve never imagined it was Jute masquerading as Nora. It makes sense now how Nora reacted when Shizuku suggested it could be an inside job. Alma, the doctor, etc., all misdirections. Aya’s walkthrough of the case put everything into perspective and is a riveting tale of deception. Masterclass from Jute really.

Her hatred of both villages is understandable I can’t lie. Her mother got screwed over by her own people and then the humans didn’t even want them. Even Louise supported her in her quest for revenge. She would’ve gotten away with it if it wasn’t for those meddling kids 😂

I love how creative the final fight between Tsugaru and Nora was. Using that unique sketch style animation in the dark was cool. I don’t mind them letting her off because she was a victim tbh. Neither the human village nor the werewolf village were safe for her, but if Moriarty and banquet are after her DNA for the chimera, idk how safe it is for her to be on her own. I guess in a way since her location is now random it’s better than travelling with the party, but still…

Either way, awesome finale. Awesome show and I can’t wait to read the books

@traed

1 & 2 Not if they can't track them, Nora could come and go as she pleased, if they sneak them out through the tunnel, the werewolves wouldn't be able to chase them down. They didn't even bother to chase down Nora's mom when she was out of the mountain territory.

3. You miss the entire point of burial and funeral. Even in India, lake burial has a ceremony, they don't just dump body into the lake and call it a day. And this is supposedly France, they don't have that custom.

4. As explained, she had options, the author just couldn't write it properly. And in what society are criminals allowed to go free because they no longer have intent to kill more? You get judged for the crimes you COMMITTED, not the ones that you're planning not to commit.




THIS

Who else remembers the vampire son? He's a kid too. Tsugeru and Aya were fine with killing a psychopathic vampire boy, but when it comes to a psychopathic werewolf girl, they're more empathetic, what? Why?

Killing 3 innocent girls + painter women + innocent victims during human invasion. What black and white and simplification are you talking about??? She's a mass murderer, even Jutte knows this.

1)She didn't destroy it. There's no hint it was destroyed and even Rindou said that nothing will change.
2) Destroying matriarchy wasn't Jutte's goal to begin with! How did you come with this conclusion??? He wanted villagers to kill each other, although he wasn't complete psycho who wanted EVERYONE to die. Doesn't make her any better.
Dude, enough... She literally bashed the skulls of innocent children for it. Are you gonna talk about simplification again, and black and white???
wasn't the path discovered because of Jutte??? She wanted humans to find the village!

This sentence makes no sense. "Exception"...
Son killing wife is worth intervention, but Jutte killing children and leading 2 villages to slaughter each other is "not black and white" or worth intervention??? I think you're clearly biased here. Rindou clearly just pitied her + let Jutte go since she saved Shizuku. I personally find that decision appealing, but I can understand why she did it. I totally disagree how she gave Jutte a pat on the shoulder though when she said she deserved punishment. Rindou basically reassured her that she did "nothing wrong" and she's the victim!!! Once again, it's like capturing a mass-shooter who was bullied, who says they deserve death for killing guilty and innocent alike, and Rindou be like "no, u victim"...
Yet again I have no idea what makes you sound so sure about that!

warning, a wall of text ahead. Feel free to read and respond if not bored :D

Dunno about the subs. Could be the reason; but I doubt it. I don't necessarily have problem with "why" Aya spared Jutte. I have huge problem with Aya's conversation with Jutte though.
Jutte literally confesses, she knows she's guilty and deserves death. We should also not forget that she's 12 years old (almost 13 if I'm not mistaken), meaning she's still a child who may not known better.
In this situation you'd normally expect a wise grown-up like Aya to be cold, straightforward, or come up with a "lecture". What does Aya do though? She does everything to make a psychopath like Jutte feel less guilty, and, overall feel better about herself despite her cruel actions. Aya doesn't tell Jutte how she has indeed sinned greatly and must repent for it from now on or something like that. Naaaah, Aya's like "you didn't slaughter those innocent girls and disfigured their corpses because you're a one-dimensional villain, no, you did it to save 3 werewolf girls from terrible fate" - You get my point? Aya's twisting the evil act into something noble-like; as if it's ok to kill innocents if you trade lives! WTF! Aya's a deranged psycho too, apparently.

Basically, Aya sugarcoats a murderer, reminds her how she saved Shizuku as if to remind how she's not all bad, and reminds her how she's an oppressed victim who's right to fight the system.

And don't get me started on Jutte killing Louise... Those two were together for months and bonded, but Aya still shot her dead! And I don't care how Louise was apparently fine with Jutte killing her. She was only 12yo ffs. Only a deranged psychopath would still choose to kill her. What was Jutte's reaction to this? Oh yes, she said she at least didn't eat Louise's flesh, since "that would've been too cruel". *sighs*

I don't know how anyone wouldn't feel appalled by Aya's conversation with a psycho like Jutte!
Why am I calling her a psycho? Because she clearly lacks empathy. This gives me hard time believing Jutte helped werewolf girls escape. In one instance she cares about victim girls, in another she smashes the faces of innocent human girls, makes their corpses unrecognizable, murders guilt-ridden Louise who became close to her, and orchestrates human invasion leading to god-knows how many innocent werewolves getting butchered. Take girls Shizuku befriends as an example; they could've easily been killed too during the invasion so Jutte makes no sense. We are to believe she cared, but then we see evidence she absolutely couldn't care less!!! A total psycho. Are we sure those 3 werewolves escaped by the way? Considering how OVERLY biased Aya is towards Jutte, I'm not so sure she didn't pull that "fact" out of her ass (wherever that is). I mean, how did Jutte even convince those 3 girls to abandon home and parents?! This may as well be a gigantic plot-hole.

We never really see Jutte showing emotions so it's not entirely impossible she murdered the werewolf girls too and disposed of them like with Alma. All we see is her being this robotic, emotionless and stoic all the time. Jutte knows what she did is considered wrong and unforgivable (that never stops psycho serial-killers though), but Aya goes full "devil's advocate" mode and presents murder as noble sacrifice of sorts, as if Jutte needs to reconsider feeling bad for murder!!! *rools eyes*
Aya could've easily "lectured" Jutte's and STILL let her go regardless, WITHOUT over-the-top BS she spewed. And what do we have in the end as a result? Jutte's like, "ok, I'll go have fun then, thanks."
BRUH...

We certainly shouldn't let murderers feel like they didn't do something horrible or let them roam free though, right? As someone said, I understand that Aya and the gang aren't "law enforcers", but I don't think it's that hard to understand why sweet-talking a child-killer is WRONG and may (more often than not) leave people with bad taste in their mouth. More often than not people don't tolerate child-killers.

My problem with this sentence is how the same didn't apply with the son of the vampire.
Arguably the son was more evil, but he was killed even though he could've been captured like Jutte and given to the father to decide his fate; You know, the fate of own freaking son!!!. It felt so out of place for the trio to be judge/jury/executioner for some reason, meanwhile the family just sits quietly and does nothing! What if father wanted to do something about him on his own? It's his son, not some rando from the streets ffs!!! Why interfere in family-matter to such extent??? What if the man was still in shock and couldn't react immediately?! At least give him some time to think it over!

Ironically, the son killed mom to frame humans to use this as an excuse for the vampires to start hunting humans. Jutte did something similar. Despite saving 3 werewolf girls (allegedly), she still did it in a way to frame the other village so they would find and kill each other! Unlike the vampire's son however Jutte ACTUALLY succeeded and her actions led to deaths of many people, innocent and not-so-innocent alike!

In one instance Aya's gang acts like trigger-happy police who were called to solve domestic issue but ended up unloading a magazine on family member, in the next they (Aya) act extremely biased and sympathetic to a psycho and ignore much much harsher crimes! Vampire son's action could've led to many deaths but didn't. Jutte's action DID LEAD to many deaths, and could've let to EVEN MORE but Aya's intervention prevented that.

Aya's bias made me hate her with passion NGL.

Jutte and Aya are both garbage characters (IMO), but it's not like they're unrealistically bad. Jutte's a psycho kid who went through traumatic events; Aya lets her go because of personal BS reasons too. I didn't necessarily dislike the show because of plot, but I felt too disgusted by the characters and their logic to enjoy it, hence why 6/10 (although am itching to go lower).

This sounds too optimistic. Priestesses were seen as breeders who should've birthed a super-werewolf. However, to the very end we see werewolves protecting the elder. There's no guarantee she won't shift the reality and preach how Jutte was a fake and they should keep trying to make a "true" Kaiser-something. Also, in a society where women are treated like objects, even if whole super-werewolf goal is dropped those girls may still be used as breeders, especially now when the population was reduced by a lot due to carnage.

Jutte has been running from the village to pretend to be Louise on daily basis. I think she had better chances than your average werewolf. That's why it makes sense for her to kill human girls to save werewolves, but makes little sense to kill Louise, especially considering Louise and Jutte had a bond.
Bruh, water burials may be a thing in some cultures but you're assuming too much here. Do you really believe her body was tossed there with respect in consideration? As the guy you quoted said, it's more likely a disrespect. Jutte likely FORGOT about Alma at all and couldn't give a flying F about her, just like she didn't care (or thought through) whether werewolves would all be massacred by humans or not. Further confirming my hypothesis that she's a deranged psychopath. I wouldn't feel confident letting her go, assuming she can't hurt anyone else (meaning innocent people).

Except Aya (and neither Tsugaru nor Shizuku) is not the judicial system of an entire country or any other established polity, claiming to adhere to English common law, Napoleonic code, or any other model, and dispense and implement some impartial system on behalf of millions of citizens. She's an individual who is under no obligation to do anything other than really follow her own worldview. She is self-employed serving as an informal "amateur" detective principally motivated by self-interest to get closer to the source of her stolen body so she can locate and recover it, and really anything beyond that is just her exercising a hobby and because she's had around 900 years alive and obviously has a lot, near-infinite, amount of time to kill.

I doubt she was ever intended to be portrayed as a paragon of virtue or justice, or rather what you or some people in the audience would consider virtuous or just, and she certainly never proclaimed such herself or donned any title meant to imply it.



I doubt Tsugaru cared either way. He's portrayed as if he couldn't care less. If Aya said kill both, he would have killed both. If Aya said spare both, he would have spared both. He has no personal investment in either of these people and he's adopted and fully embraced the role of Aya's apprentice or assistant, accepting her as his boss and superior. It was Aya's decision in both cases, and as to why, there is a difference between the two beyond just the obvious werewolf to vampire species difference. One was a boy who lived in an isolated country manor with only his immediate family and a few servants and was probably deemed as having a privileged and easy life, only choosing to resort to violence and murder for a thrill and in pursuit of ideals that were a luxury to have and choose to exercise and act out. The other was a girl "in a cage", probably deemed a victim of circumstances like a meat or dairy cow born to serve as captive livestock until death.

Also, the vampire boy had treated Aya and her team much more rudely from the start, with an air of derision.

Except Aya (and neither Tsugaru nor Shizuku) is not the judicial system of an entire country or any other established polity, claiming to adhere to English common law, Napoleonic code, or any other model, and dispense and implement some impartial system on behalf of millions of citizens. She's an individual who is under no obligation to do anything other than really follow her own worldview. She is self-employed serving as an informal "amateur" detective principally motivated by self-interest to get closer to the source of her stolen body so she can locate and recover it, and really anything beyond that is just her exercising a hobby and because she's had around 900 years alive and obviously has a lot, near-infinite, amount of time to kill.

I doubt she was ever intended to be portrayed as a paragon of virtue or justice, or rather what you or some people in the audience would consider virtuous or just, and she certainly never proclaimed such herself or donned any title meant to imply it.



I doubt Tsugaru cared either way. He's portrayed as if he couldn't care less. If Aya said kill both, he would have killed both. If Aya said spare both, he would have spared both. He has no personal investment in either of these people and he's adopted and fully embraced the role of Aya's apprentice or assistant, accepting her as his boss and superior. It was Aya's decision in both cases, and as to why, there is a difference between the two beyond just the obvious werewolf to vampire species difference. One was a boy who lived in an isolated country manor with only his immediate family and a few servants and was probably deemed as having a privileged and easy life, only choosing to resort to violence and murder for a thrill and in pursuit of ideals that were a luxury to have and choose to exercise and act out. The other was a girl "in a cage", probably deemed a victim of circumstances like a meat or dairy cow born to serve as captive livestock until death.

Also, the vampire boy had treated Aya and her team much more rudely from the start, with an air of derision.

Nice I was right on some aspects with Jutte being alive and being the killer. Anyway I loved this show. A good mystery series with actually interesting cases is always a blast to watch. Lol at ppl trying to enforce their moral standards and justice systems on Aya/Jutte/the whole situation here. Aya isn't the NYPD or some shit lmao. This who werewolf village history is a complete fucking mess and this case ended up being way more complicated than the first vampire one so it's not a good comparison.

@WatchTillTandava I agree with your point that the characters aren't illustrated to be a paragon of justice, the problem arises by the means the author choose to portray this shit. Yeah, the detectives aren't conveyed to be very caring people, but the scene is written so Aya, by her own desire, gave Jutte coaching into not feeling so guilty for being a sick murderer, with this the author is actively trying to make Jutte look like an tragic figure and until we get a second season, this will have no consequences and Jutte gets to live her happy go lucky life at the cost of innocent kids, adults and werewolfs.

To give you and better insight into what im saying, in HxH one of the more popular character is Hisoka, who is a very dangerous, deranged, unstable character, he kills people, lies, manipulates and is overall a creep who even sexually harasses the protagonist. But the author does NOT trie to give any kind of sugarcoat to what he does, he's straight up a scumbag and thats the appeal of the character. No character trying to make good reason of his actions and people only deal with him as a useful tool or a person better avoided, i like this example because Gon, the protagonist, is ALSO a very amoral and hypocrite just like Aya.

While here, Jutte gets a sad backstory and then proceeds to be worse than both the villages and she gets borderline praised for her actions. Its not about Aya and Tsuguru being amoral, its not about evil people needing the godly hammer of justice, is just that the author portrayed her as a a tragic character but her actions are that of a vile murderer.

@ProofByColor What did Jutte accomplish other than "saving" 3 werewolf girls and causing the deaths many more innocents? You have to be genuinely morally perverted to not understand why people would have an issue with Aya's decision.

@SkyhighCFC No where did I mention how I actually feel about Aya's decision. These are basically rogue monster detectives that are monsters themselves. They're not perfect upholders of justice and they have their own moral compass. My opinion doesn't really matter. Is it really so strange for an outsider to look at the history of these two villages and think they'd be better off eliminated? Or at least that they got what they deserve. It's perhaps a pessimistic viewpoint, but look at how most of the werewolf village treated Shizuka or how the entirety of the human village attempted to murder a mother and child. They have a deep history of exiling and murdering each other/themselves. And over what? Fear? It's foolish. So Aya thinks something like "fuck it, you weren't completely motivated by revenge, I can somewhat sympathize, and those people were awful anyway."