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KatanaRabies said: Agreed. Interesting concept but execution was really rushed and poor. Kaworu could've been a potentially great character had he gotten more screen time. The impact he had on Shinji would also have felt more natural. This wasted potential really pisses me off. Yeah, it's definitely a shame, the original plot outline did call for Kaworu being introduced a couple episodes earlier, however it sounds like it would have had the same result, Kaworu would have been a single episode character. It's nice that Sadamoto introduced him earlier in the manga and gave him more time to develop a relationship with Shinji, but I think he ended up being bit too cold in the manga. |
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Rei366 said: @KatanaRabies It seems normal that losing someone granting him unconditional affection and support (if you know his other relationships) affects Shinji a lot. But you are on the same line as some of the makers t in a way since he was supposed to come way earlier (middle series maybe, not sure). As for "the viewer", it's certainly not about how he feels about the characters. Or most of the characters would act rather differently. Indeed, Shinji's hunger for affection and approval makes the time spent on relationships appear less important. It seems he would be happy to gain any kind of love and support regardless who it came from or how long he has known that person. His reactions may come off as a bit unnatural though for "normal" people. If a person I barely knew came up to me and told me they loved me, I would still not accept that person wholeheartedly until I knew and understood the person better. I'd like to understand what I'm receiving. But I am not Shinji. The short amount of time they had doesn't mean that what Shinji feels is fake. The issue is that it comes across that way for the viewers since it's like someone's pressed the fast forward button in this episode. This kind of portrayal in the show bugs me. It basically felt like I got only got to say hi to Kaworu and that he barely interacted with Shinji before he was gone. It could have had so much more impact on me as a viewer if they had built up to that final moment a bit more. Besides emotional investment, I believe Kaworu could've contributed some interesting things to the plot being both a pilot and an angel and through his interactions with Shinji. I would have liked to see him interact with other characters as well and learn a bit more about his worldview. It's a regretful decision that they chose not to introduce him earlier. Simply put, he piqued my interest but it felt like they threw his potential in the garbage can. theevamonkey said: KatanaRabies said: Agreed. Interesting concept but execution was really rushed and poor. Kaworu could've been a potentially great character had he gotten more screen time. The impact he had on Shinji would also have felt more natural. This wasted potential really pisses me off. Yeah, it's definitely a shame, the original plot outline did call for Kaworu being introduced a couple episodes earlier, however it sounds like it would have had the same result, Kaworu would have been a single episode character. It's nice that Sadamoto introduced him earlier in the manga and gave him more time to develop a relationship with Shinji, but I think he ended up being bit too cold in the manga. Truly a shame that he still would've had such short amount of screentime regardless. Even if the result would have been the same, the journey could've been different had they given him more episodes. I haven't read the manga but it's nice to hear he was included more. Sounds like the portrayal of his coldness might be a bit of a bother though? Interesting that they chose to emphasize that trait. |
| IMHO the best episode of the whole series. Some complain that Kaworu should have been introduced earlier. But indeed I think it's perfect that he had appeared just in this episode, since this enhances the uniqueness and special-status of his character. |
| Jesus, Asuka has fallen into the abyss. Shes nowhwre near like her old self. She can't pilot Unit 02 anymore (I think) and she'said just self loathing now. I wonder what's gonna happen to her. She's damn near useless now. What can she do? She looked like shit when they found her. It looked like she wasn't eating and was about to die. I was waiting for Nagisa to appear. He's on the damn cover for the show on MAL. Who introduces a new character in the last 3 episodes and has them killed in the first episode he appears? I never expected him to be an angel though. It wouldve been better if he was introducws earlier so tbat his death had more meaning. Oh well. So with him gone all the Angel's are dead? What's gonna happen now? Also what was Rei doing? She was above watching but nothing. She was just watching them. I wonder if Shinji knew she was there. Knowing him though he doesn't want to have contact with hErin anymore after finding out the truth about her. Also that moment when Nagisa dies reminded me of The Boss from MGS3: Snake Eater. You know the moment I'm talking about if you played the game. 2 more episodes! |
| @Nano1124 I thought that the only person offering unconditional love dying less than 24minutes after his introduction was pretty meaningful. About Rei, she was simply taking the pose just enough time to let MAGI tell you about her true nature. XD (in case you didn't get the earlier "You are like me." or "Him and me, we are the same, not sure anymore) (after all, it's not her first time appearing/disappearing in a breath, see episode 1) @Mr_Shnb It's just this website's choice. Other pictures would have made more appropriate "cover" posters. ============= @JeremiahOrange Meaningful because: - https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=9263&show=200#msg48882365 - this is the first entirely "positive" character, as seen with the kind of love he expresses. And what does he get for that? Quasi-immediate death sentence, by the object of affection. And from Shinji's side, he never went this far so it's pretty much the last trigger toward Gendô's masterplan. Also, don't you feel weird after the Rei-arium scene and revelation to still talk about Shinji and Rei as an item knwing who she "was"? Although, you already recognized the second angel in her (although you named it Eva instead of Lillith) so it makes her non-human and so it could be okay. Just like Kaworu~Tabris is non-human and shouldn't be labelled as gay (at least, it goes beyond that; it's an interspecies kind of love! and a somewhat godly love: he just loves Shinji with no restriction/condition) By the way, Lillith is the name of the second angel, stored in the Central Dogma (and intentionally misslabelled as Adam) and bleeding (and pierced by Longinus lance until a few episodes ago). The Lillins is a term thrown at you by Kaworu only, in this episode only, but it's easy to understand what he means by that word: the humans. A little bonus info: Kaworu talks in rhyme or something in japanese (I can't say exactly, I forgot, my bad). PS: have a good time watching the great TV finale (the best version) of this series. PPS: if you need to cool down from anger or something after that, you can still watch the parodies of it in the first episode of Shingeki! Kyôjin Shûgaku or in the Dragon Quest drama. ======== I guess you were basing your choice on the MAL poster? A character being important in a poster can simply mean it's pivotal to a story. (anyway, with how impactful Kaworu was and how interesting the series is, you didn't lose your time. ^^ ==== May 17, 2019 @2ego XD He just clinged on the very first person who offered him unconditional affection. That's kind of understandable. ==== @retr0ali Hello. I thank you for your politeness but it wasn't necessary to thank me. ^^ I'm always glad to follow peoples watching Evangelion (even if they end up disliking it, as long as they don't spit on it angrily). I wish you further nice discoveries in jap.subculture and hope that you''ll get to experience more of Hideaki Anno & GAINAX (the guys behind Evangelion). PS: didn't know where to write because you block both messages and commentaries. ==== October 14, 2019 @Master3530 "If they wanted me to sympathize for a character that barely got 20 minutes of screen time then they failed." They didn't even try. "How could Shinji even fall in love so fast?" Did he? Why would this reaction be necessary be born out of romantic feelings? What I saw was a young boy being suddenly offered unconditional love after 23 episodes (plus the years before) hardly getting a semblance of affection from peoples around him. This is observable. Also, at this point in the series, he's alone since the connections he made are mostly lost: Asuka is a potato, he can't face Rei III, Misato and him are more or less detached , the schoolmates are gone and I won't mention his father. This is... shown. "Why did the angel volunteer to die?" Because he saw through a scheme but mostly because he saw something in humanity / Lilim through Shinji. This is told. April 7, 2020 @-EnvyV2- We got some things: the Misato expedition, a new being found (and a giant lance), some people running away, Adam's awakening (EVA-like light giant, raising beyond the sky), "BOUM" = ocean's elevation + "red water" There are probably a few more infos I forgot but it's late and I'm not well, sorry. About Shinji, call that romantic love if you like but of course he can't not be happy: he's facing someone embracing his whole person wholeheartedly, asking nothing in return, while Asuka was... refusing strongly some parts of him and Misato, despite all her earlier efforts, has always been part of those with expectations (and her mind is totally unavailable at the end of the series, like Shinji notices in ep.24). And I won't mention his father. June 24, 2020 @Ryzor Maybe he is, but there are no clue about it. Here, he is simply all the happiest to accept the first "unconditional" love he's granted from another human being. (after what the serie shas shown of his relationships, we can't really fault him) Was this really that uninteresting, with all the final revelations made by Kaworu and others? |
Rei_IIIJun 23, 2020 11:50 PM
| One episode char that seemed important and dies leaving me further more confused about how horrible this story is getting |
| I don't think Shinji is romantically or sexually atrracted to Kaworu. He opened up to him as a friend, someone who was nice and considerate to him. The blush scenes were awkward though. Kaworu is more on the gay side, but he isn't even human. Also EoE opening scene.._ |
| The old posts on this thread are really tough to get through, so much disgusting homophobia. This episode felt really (!) rushed. It had cool ideas that went by way too fast. I really can't see how this show is gonna end. |
Dawnflame said: The old posts on this thread are really tough to get through, so much disgusting homophobia. This episode felt really (!) rushed. It had cool ideas that went by way too fast. I really can't see how this show is gonna end. Yeah I noticed it seems the community at 2008 was homophobic but now after June 26, 2015 people are trying to be sympathetic understandable to the gay community. |
| I understood the general premise of this episode, but I don't understand why they put this guy so prominently on the cover just for him to be introduced and die in one episode. The whole thing felt rushed and I did find it quite silly that they "loved" each other in such a short space of time of knowing each other. I was also surprised I've read both negative things and spoilers about this show in the past so was not expecting any "gay" scenes (I'm open to interpretation it wasn't romantic) but I think the right word mentioned above is awkward. It bothered me and I wasn't sure why. |
| I was also about to complain about the very late introduction of the Fifth Child and as it later turned out,Angel. But well after watching this episode I don't really mind, even despite the short screentime Nagisa received, he still managed to fulfill a purpose and one which plays a major role in Shinjis development. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| That was a Code Geass clussterfuck type of episode... I FUCKIN LOVED IT! so that's the guy on the poster, been wondering about that the whole time, can't believe he's in the poster like a MC when he appeared and died in the same damn episode. |
Shuichi2 said: I understood the general premise of this episode, but I don't understand why they put this guy so prominently on the cover just for him to be introduced and die in one episode. The whole thing felt rushed and I did find it quite silly that they "loved" each other in such a short space of time of knowing each other. This! I couldn't have said it better. |
| After spending 23 episodes engaging in awkward sexual contact with girls, Shinji's true awakening occurs with a handsome, mysterious boy. "I have to go to bed." "With me...?" Gaaaaaaay. Oh shit. Things are getting serious if Pen Pen's gotta go. Really sucks that Shinji had to kill his first boyfriend. |
| "No, son, you may not have your body pillow at the dinner table!" |
| Cringy gay moments. Shinji is so longing for some affection that he even accepts gay relationships too! Wow, biggest plot twist of NGE! *claps slowly* I was about to do a comparison between who will be a better couple (Shinji X Asuka) or (Shinji X Rei) But well after thinking about it, besides some few romantic moments (which might just be a fanservice) Shinji never actually love either of the girls romantically and cares for them as only a friend and s, I've come to a conclusion that will save me time from thinking too much about his relationships with the two girls... He's GAY! (Not really) Now we know why Gendo always covered his hand his gloves. I think somehow a part of his wife is stuck in his palm. |
ShadowkillZFeb 19, 2018 1:08 PM
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Dawnflame said: The old posts on this thread are really tough to get through, so much disgusting homophobia. My thoughts exactly. I came to check people's thoughts on the episode and suddenly HOMOPHOBIA. Sadly, there are some until this day. Besides that, Kaworu was really interesting and I loved how Shinji got all blushy around him and things like that - We had never seen him like this before. I saw some people calling it bullshit that they 'fell in love' with each other in one episode, but hey, they're 14, and it was a connection we hadn't seen before in the anime. Pretty nice how an anime from the 90's would feature that. Of course we have Card Captor Sakura and Sailor Moon which did the same, but this is the first time I recall seeing that in a show made for the male public. Just nice. |
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| The ED keeps on changing. Also, I never understood that Lilith and Lilim stuff. Looks like the monoliths and the moon reference this episode is ripping off of 2001. But back to the stuff that everyone's talking about. The yaoi, oh my god, the yaoi. Shinji is gay. I am calling it. That's why he is afraid to be with women.(And never hook up with Rei) Thank god. Rei gets a chance to go for another love interest other than worthless Shinji. I bet the yaoi fangirls were gushing throughout this episode. I mean, there was the first meeting where Shinji blushed like a Japanese woman, and there was the bathing stuff and holding hands and the love confession and the touchy touchy pick up lines only a lover would use. Kaworu said: You are so delicate, like glass, especially your heart. Even he suggests going to bed together. Man, this episode gets more romance stuff more than every harem show in existence. Also, the long pause was totally gay. There is no way you can misinterpret it. That and the fact that Kaworu is American. They can be quite liberal in their feelings, aren't they? Now I get why he behaved that way when Asuka kissed him. He's totally into boys. P3TE said: Shuichi2 said: I understood the general premise of this episode, but I don't understand why they put this guy so prominently on the cover just for him to be introduced and die in one episode. The whole thing felt rushed and I did find it quite silly that they "loved" each other in such a short space of time of knowing each other. This! I couldn't have said it better. My feelings exactly. I would have totally supported it if they put him on for 2 or maybe 3 episodes for this stuff to develop, but in 1 episode? Rei366 said: I thought that the only person offering unconditional love dying less than 24minutes after his introduction was pretty meaningful. I certainly hope that this has potential consequences. But, there are not many episodes to touch on this stuff, is there? Putting this 1 episode love and instant death does have some meaning, I will give you that, but they could have put this near the middle, couldn't they? I bet everyone missed the fact that Asuka and class rep are sleeping together. (In the previous episode anyway) And Rei is best girl... Shit, I just typed it out of habit, didn't I? |
JeremiahOrangeMar 8, 2018 12:56 PM
 Without change,we end up becoming the very person we hate. I was dead until the moment I met you. I was a powerless corpse pretending to be alive. Living without power, without the ability to change my course, was bound to lead me to a slow death. |
| Amazing episode, never mind the yaoi (if you would call it that). It was to show that Nagisa was actually the first person to touch Shinji, to embrace him, to tell him he loves him. It was not a sexual thing, touch is the best way to covey feelings truly, and that's what Shinji desperately needed. Nagisa loved him for what he is: a fragile boy, the same reason why his father despised him, and even Shinji didn't like himself because of it. Nagisa was everything that Shinji wanted from other people. For me, this was a brilliant episode. |
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| The pacing felt VERY rushed this time. I thought I had a handle on the story after the plotdumps of previous episodes, but, by introducing Kaworu and everything he brings to the table, they just delivered another truckload of mysteries with this episode... |
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Rei366 said: Just like Kaworu~Tabris is non-human and shouldn't be labelled as gay (at least, it goes beyond that; it's an interspecies kind of love! and a somewhat godly love: he just loves Shinji with no restriction/condition) It's also worth knowing that angels from religious texts tend to be described as hermaphrodite creatures (containing both male and female essense), and it is also reflected in art sometimes. Take a look at Devilman, for instance (which is said to have had huge influence on Eva, I will probably grasp it better after finishing the series and the EoE), and look at how Satan (who is a fallen angel) is depicted there - as a hermaphrodite being. So my point is that it's not technically correct to call Shinji and Kaoru relationship homosexual (if it was in any way sexual in the first place, which is not clear from the episode), as one of them is neither human, nor male/female. I hope it comforts the homophobes a little bit :3 Aside from that, I really enjoyed the episode and was even happy for Shinji to be understood and comforted for the first freaking time in the series. And such a pain in the end :-[ I also love all the static scenes from NGE, they are always executed just in the right moment and tell about the characters and their emotions so much with just music (or elevator sounds in the infamous scene) and a static image. This time it was truly intense, and all this "holy" music choice is so perfectly dramatic. |
| Watching it again a couple of months later, and man, the AT field part sure is brilliant. The way Anno sets it up for 23 episodes as something impenetrable, that only with extreme force that humans themselves cannot produce it can be pierced, and then BAM! - AT field is actually the barrier that humans set between themselves, the walls between our hearts. That alone is genius by itself, not to mention the brilliant directing of the whole episode. |
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| Hands down to the best episode |
| A great episode. Love it. I wished that Kaworu could have had more screen time. I liked his character. |
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| More gratuitous cringe, and developed way too quickly. This show is encroaching further and further into "I am so smart and edgy" territory. The greatest praise I can give this show is that it's almost over I can't wait to be done with these freeze frames lasting forever either. |
StateofOhayoDec 24, 2018 11:08 PM
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| Kaworu's screentime was cut short tbh... I would've loved to see him send Shinji into more fits of gay panic. Good ep, was fun to watch...abit strange and very sad towards the end. |
| Pen Pen was not the final angel. I'm relieved. |
| ?????? That felt so rushed. That white haired guy is on the fucking cover for crying out loud. Why does he only have a total of 20 min of screentime? |
| Kawaru was a new recruit sent by top brass of SEELE themselves who's charming enough to get into anyone's pants if he had enough time to talk to them. It's a surprise that NERV's new dating sim MC turned out to be the final Angel who came so close to the organization's core and had to get killed by Shinji himself. He was the first one who ever showed him love and that 2-minute delay before he crushed the guy showed how hesitant he was in killing him off. |
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| oh boy that was a doozy. i'm still a bit confused but also holy crap that jumpscare at the end. what a scene. |
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| Wow been reading a lot of the episode discussions on here since im on my first watch through of this series is so mind boggling and gripping in the best way but i was really shocked at the amount of homophobia from the early posts from like 2007 i guess times really have changed glad to see their isn't much of that from these newer posts damn crazy episode though weird how Kaoru is like a giant character in the art for the NGE page here on mal but hes only in one ep did feel a little rushed but still amazing episode thats literally like my first critisism on the show i've thought of besidesit being a tad hard to follow here an there |
| Another hard to follow episode. The opening part with Asuka is pretty brutal. She is now worthless, and doesn't want to live anymore. Basically her character till now - a person wants to be looked at. Kaworu came in and went out in 1 ep lmao. Not much impression from him except his interaction with Shinji (which I found weird in many ways) and telling us some useful information. I couldn't care less about his death. Basically the angels always tried to reach there because they thought it was Adam, but it turned out to be Lilith and the real Adam is with Gendo? I guess Lilim means human. I didn't really get the white moon and black moon stuff. 2 more to go. |
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| That was... different then I expected. Also, I just realized I called Shinji for being p*ssy several times before... oh boi.. |
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mckerfoot said: ?????? That felt so rushed. That white haired guy is on the fucking cover for crying out loud. Why does he only have a total of 20 min of screentime? Kaworu is an anomaly in the anime world. He appears in less than 20 minutes of the series and is (or was) a household name. As to the why? Your mileage may vary, but clearly in that short period of time, he managed to reach Shinji as much or more than anyone in the series ever did. That's big deal in a series that has as focal point the difficulties that Shinji has in talking to/relating to people. Aditionally the homoerotic subtext (which the Netflix translation dials down a notch) might seem like peanuts today, but was a huge deal twenty plus years ago. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| Damn what an episode! Though it does remind me of the old Anime. Where a new character is introduced, only to die in the next episode. This time, episode wasn't even done and he perished! Still that long pause at the end. I guess they wanted to emphasize the scene more. It was pretty disturbing seeing his head fall off. Also screwed up on how Asuka's past. All she wanted is to be not lonely. Only to find her mother died by suicide. That face she makes when she discovered it :\ Add in Kaji dying as well. She's pretty much broken now. WTF, I guess Ritsuko does have feelings to Gendo. Like Mother, Like Daughter eh? I think Kaworu loves Shinji at a more emotional level instead of a sexual preference. He understands that Humans are weak, fragile and easily emotional. In some ways, he pities them and decides they need a future instead of him. I think Shinji like him in a way because no one, not even his family nor friends have told him that. Probably the only person that truly loved him was his mother Yui and Kaworu. Even though Kaworu was an "Angel". It seems he was not the final one. It also seems that Rei was able to stop him from doing something to Adam (merge?). I guess he calls Humans as "Lilim" and that "Adam" was actually "Lilith"? They need to explain all of this in the last two episodes! I have a feeling Spear of Longinus will indeed return to earth's sphere out of nowhere and to be used for last minute. Not gonna lie, I thought Kaworu is actually "Kaiji" reborn. He has the similar reactions and face and all. |
| It was way too fast for someone to process all of that :P Guess they're really out of time & budget for this anime, especially with that preview |
"Signature removed"   |
| "Oh hey, that's a cover villain." *dies some minutes later after long static picture* |
| So we still don't know how the second impact happened, or im i missing something here ? im confused af... Imagine living with 2 girls for more than 6 months and then falling in love with a boy that has been around you for 1 or 2 days kekw... Shinji... @Rei_III Hmm so in the end no explanation was given we just got a few hints about it... hmmm about Shinji and Kaorou i guess you are right i didn't see that point of view, hell with that persona Asuka had it took me 20+ episodes to realize she loved Shinji, another question i have regarding the movie |
-nv-Apr 7, 2020 12:59 PM
| So the Angels evolve to the final form...human. I am perplexed however by the homophobia in some of the responses. At the very least, according to dogma, Angels have no sex. And a man declaring love for another man doesn't immediately constitute sexual desire. It is simply an emotional connection the Angel had with Shinji. After all he's been through, who would Shinji have more of a connection with than with the Angels? All the humans used him, abused him and kept their distance. The Angel approached him like a human being. Grow up. Poor Asuka. We never saw how much she was hurting. All of that bravado and petulance was just a shield. She had built her emotional defense against that pain with the simple concept of "I'm the best". But she never realised that there is always someone better. She was shattered. Then there was the poor Class-Rep, who knew she was hurting but had no way to help. All she could offer was platitudes. "You did your best". Which was the worst thing to say cuz that's what everyone said. She had no choice. Death was the only release. Wow, this series is certainly more than just big robots fighting. Mod Edit: Merged duplicated posts; please use the edit button. |
DeadlyRavenApr 14, 2020 12:23 PM
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| Hmm.. Strange episode. Is Shinji bisexual? There were quite a few moments where he was attracted to the women in earlier episodes, then out of nowhere he meets Nagisa and immediately likes him in that way. Had me a bit confused. Not sure why Nagisa is even on the cover either. One of the weaker episodes IMO, spent more time making a "wtf?" face at my TV than actually enjoying it. |
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