HypocriteSupreme said: It seems like the days of manly, decisive and confident anime protagonists like Kenshiro from Fist Of The North Star, Spike Spiegel from COWBOY BEBOP and Guts from Berserk seem long gone. Instead the insecure and indecisive MC has become the norm, populating most of the new animes. Why did the anime climate change so much? (On the same note i find the lack of beards in anime disturbing ಠ_ಠ) Why people always mention Hokuto no Ken as a symbol of it's genre in the 80's when it was not the rule, but the exception, because most of it's genre was plotless gorefiesta? @OP That period (At least Jojo's part 1) was mainly based in trends of the time like Stallone's and Van Damme's movies. Then you had Evangelion. |
Swagernator said: Seiya said: Because gender roles are a cancer. There is no such thing as "gender roles", only natural order. Sorry buddy, but you're wrong. There is no "natural order," only the cancer that's forced/indoctrinated into children at a young age. This will no longer be considered okay in the near future, and people will soon be able to be themselves without fear or social stigma. |
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Pullman said: I think we can blame western SJWs and also Feminism in general for this. Yes, I'm sure we can. Netflix too. I recommend making a rant thread about it. But on Casual Discussion, not here. Don't forget George Soros and the other (((((((((globalistz)!!!)) paying the Japanese to make effeminate anime to try and make strong western men become traps yes this is happening because a youtube video man told me so |
Lobinde said: Pullman said: I think we can blame western SJWs and also Feminism in general for this. Yes, I'm sure we can. Netflix too. I recommend making a rant thread about it. But on Casual Discussion, not here. Don't forget George Soros and the other (((((((((globalistz)!!!)) paying the Japanese to make effeminate anime to try and make strong western men become traps yes this is happening because a youtube video man told me so More traps means more cute things. I say, bring it on! |
Jepze said: Seiya said: I mean i like tomboys and reverse traps and wish they were more popular with the otakus but if you think that is going to happen in japan you are gonna get dissapointed.Sorry buddy, but you're wrong. There is no "natural order," only the cancer that's forced/indoctrinated into children at a young age. This will no longer be considered okay in the near future, and people will soon be able to be themselves without fear or social stigma. And you fucking trans people are always gonna seen as wierd First of all, I'm not trans. Second, you're from Finland, and I'm talking about North America here. |
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| What a comparison, two anime that aired 15 years apart are trend setters. Truth is, anime with macho characters were present then as much as they are now - periodically. Strictly speaking about muscular men, I could check, but I doubt that many other shows than Fist of the North had particularly ripped characters in the years that it aired. It's pretty much the same situation as it is now, for every Dragon Ball and FotNS you got an Urusei Yatsura or Kimagure Orange Road. It's something that heavily depends on the type of the show. Can't really expect that many male characters like Gouda from Ore Monogatari in a romantic drama. Not even all mecha shows of the 70s and 80s heavily relied on the romanticized notion of gender roles, so for every Getter Robo or Mazinger, you'd get something like Patlabor or Ideon, where the characters don't fit the "old anime was manlier, what the fuck happened" mold. |
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HypocriteSupreme said: (On the same note i find the lack of beards in anime disturbing ಠ_ಠ) The way I understand it, Japanese men just don't get to grow impressive beards even if they try. Because genetics. DrGeroCreation said: It's because anime is shit now where almost every guy has to be a skinny bishounen or a teenaged easily scared or embarassed pussy unlike in superior cartoons where you have manly men that aren't played for laughs and aren't stupid.  What's wrong with this Superman? Did he read too much Twilight and wanted to be a vampire pretty boy too? Swagernator said: Seiya said: Because gender roles are a cancer. There is no such thing as "gender roles", only natural order. As an inhabitant of the 21st century, when humanity has been disturbing natural order for millenia, I laugh at you: Bwa-ha-ha! Puny animals, cower before the might of my intellect! Tremble at the sight of my recklessness, and fear even greater powers I will obtain in the future! Know that the only things that live on this earth are there because I have specially prepared a nature preserve for you! Jepze said: Seiya said: I mean i like tomboys and reverse traps and wish they were more popular with the otakus but if you think that is going to happen in japan you are gonna get dissapointed.Sorry buddy, but you're wrong. There is no "natural order," only the cancer that's forced/indoctrinated into children at a young age. This will no longer be considered okay in the near future, and people will soon be able to be themselves without fear or social stigma. And you fucking trans people are always gonna seen as wierd "trans" refers to transsexuals, people who want to change their biological body to fit the gender they want to be (or people who already did it). Tomboys are nothing like this - they are just people who live their lives and don't conform to other people's ideas of how people of a certain gender "should" behave. |
| It's a reflection of the societal changes and expectations in Japan. Men in Japan are typically very effeminate and physically weak, lacking confidence and are extremely indecisive. There is def stuff you could watch that portray men in a better fashion. Jojo or some shonen shows, even though most of the men are just little boys. I know there is other Japanese media like Yakuza and Samurai films that have a better depiction of men, but those harken back to previous times. |
 "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Friedrich Nietzsche |
Hrybami said: lihle808 said: game of thrones is the best series out there, you should have your sexuality checked out. It's even best than any anime you have ever watched. I don't like series that screams "hey look how mature this it". Most of the times it's just dialogues that push the conception of douchebag too far giving the impression that the good characters are relatively nice. I'm not fond how women are treated like garbage in this series. Playing with relativism doesn't work well with me. I don't care if Game of Thrones is better. I prefer my favourites anime rather than this emo series by a large scale actually and I feel no regret about it. >game of thrones >emo are you serious? how on earth is GoT emo? do you even understand the meaning of the word "emo"? |
Aidoru-Ojisan said: tbh I doubt most people are macho like Kenshiro, Spike or Guts back then ) speak for yourself man I have a beard on each bulging washboard abb. I can take a group of dudes in a fist fight while versing another group in chess why? cuz intelligence is manly homes! |
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flannan said: What's wrong with this Superman? Did he read too much Twilight and wanted to be a vampire pretty boy too? LOL!  He looks nothing like that vampire guy from Twilight. |
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Seiya said: There is no "natural order," only the cancer that's forced/indoctrinated into children at a young age. This will no longer be considered okay in the near future, and people will soon be able to be themselves without fear or social stigma. What a dystopian future ahead of us. flannan said: As an inhabitant of the 21st century, when humanity has been disturbing natural order for millenia, I laugh at you: Bwa-ha-ha! Puny animals, cower before the might of my intellect! Tremble at the sight of my recklessness, and fear even greater powers I will obtain in the future! Know that the only things that live on this earth are there because I have specially prepared a nature preserve for you! And yet the humans manages to exceed those "milenia of disturbing" by cancer that is spreading across the world now. We are truly species capable of anything. |
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| I blame jojo those cross dressing "flamboyant" fags with huge muscles and manly faces sticking their asses out and pouting has ruined "being a MAN!!!!!!" |
Swagernator said: What a dystopian future ahead of us. Lol. Dystopian to you perhaps, but not for people who are for real equality. |
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Aidoru-Ojisan said: Guessing it's because of the concept of making "the main character relatable to the viewers" and let's be honest, most dudes who watch Anime now of days are insecure and indecisive, well that's just a factor now of days, tbh I doubt most people are macho like Kenshiro, Spike or Guts back then and now so maybe it's just the change that has come with time. (oh a beard man :o, I like them a lot too makes them look more badass, wish we could have more MCs like that *Amon Amarth plays in background*) I doubt that's the case. Also Machismo and Relatability arent really incompatible. As long as your character has human falws/weaknesses/struggles he is pretty relatable wether he is a 2.00 meter musclegiant or a geek guy. Bruce Willis in Die Hard is relatable even though most of us arent cops nor can we gun down terrorists. Luke Skywalker is relatable and although he is a bit more naive and soft than the aforementioned Willis he is never the idiot we see in many anime. I would argue it's those indecisive weak characters that ARENT relatable. Mumbling at every word, having no personality, no conviction and generally being pushovers isnt relatable because most people are actually fine at those things. Even if they werent, they watch entertainment to see something better, not worse than themselves. |
james501Sep 18, 2017 5:40 PM
| I don't think it's extinct. There are still famous main characters who are decisive and confident like Luffy, Natsu, Shimazu Toyohisha and Saitama. They are still exits and known to many people. I actually prefer cowards and cunning bastards as protagonist like Favaro, John Constantine and Jack Sparrow. They seem more rare |
kikiabdullSep 18, 2017 8:46 PM
| The lack of machismo is all across the art. Machismo is changing. The antihero killed the hero and then the girmdark killed the antihero. Marvel comics are a remnant of that. Why machismo died? I guess current lifestyles don't fare well with it. Feminism cracked machismo, and one of the first things to die was the heroism. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
| There's a ton of Shounen out there, so I don't really know what you're getting at. Wasn't Jojo a meme? |
 Three things cannot be long hidden.. ...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th. |
| You can have strong and decisive characters that aren't exactly macho |
My Queens  |
| It is more or less a fashion from a bygone era. Inspired by old action movies that are by most considered cheesy and embarassing to watch seriously now. Not even the elite are unified in wanting that in their smart shows. Lobinde said: "what is Jojo's Bizarre Adventure" That hasn't been macho in decades. It only seems so, because of the new (slightly less) macho anime adaption of parts 1-3. Hrybami said: I'm tired of seeing douchebag that are there for the sole purpose of being hated by the audience and to initiate shock factor to them. Not liking GoT is not a good reason to draw such conclusion. Kenshiro, Goku, Joseph/Jonathan Joestar and many others are heroes with good nature or a strong sense of justice, or both. The aesthetic is even used in more comedy oriented stories like Otokojuku or Kongou Banchou. |
mecharobotSep 19, 2017 2:57 PM
| Your guess is as good as mine, but I'll just leaves this here: |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| It hasn't really? True, their aren't a lot of beards, but there are still tough and cool guys. Levi from SnK would be an example. I believe part of the Ackerman's special abilities is "knowing exactly what to do". That sounds pretty decisive to me. |
| You are now breathing manually. |
| Idk maybe people got bored of watching hulking men beat the shit out of each other. Sort of like eating a steak everyday will loose it's appeal. |
Seiya said: Sorry buddy, but you're wrong. There is no "natural order," only the cancer that's forced/indoctrinated into children at a young age. This will no longer be considered okay in the near future, and people will soon be able to be themselves without fear or social stigma. "Natural order" is the fallback of people who have nothing going for themselves so they have to invent some external force to put themselves on a pedestal. |
| Same reason dinosaurs became extinct. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
It seems like the days of manly, decisive and confident anime protagonists like Kenshiro from Fist Of The North Star, Spike Spiegel from COWBOY BEBOP and Guts from Berserk seem long gone. Instead the insecure and indecisive MC has become the norm, populating most of the new animes. Why did the anime climate change so much? (On the same note i find the lack of beards in anime disturbing ಠ_ಠ) Maybe because those anime were never the norm in the first place. A lot of anime had a lot of western design but a lot of stuff was all by the same animators and creators. After that wave, new stuff came around. So let me give you a rundown of "recent" anime (most agree since 2010 is recent enough) which have been "masculine" : (this is only visually speaking) Toriko-2011 Berserk movies- 2012 Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure-2012 Death Billiards (movie)-2013 Gifuu Doudou!!: Kanetsugu to Keiji-2013 Hajime no Ippo: Rising- 2014 Space Dandy - 2014 (more JoJo)-2014 Dragon Ball Z Kai-2014 Abarenbou Rikishi!! Matsutarou- 2014 One Punch Man- 2015 Dragon Ball Super-2015 Death Parade-2015 Boku no Hero Academia-2016 Drifters-2016 Also going to point out, most heroes are pretty decisive. I don't know what you have been watching. Overpowered shlock seems to be all that populates and makes it. Neon Genesis Certainly hasn't really made it's way back. Sure, you get a character like in Tokyo Ghoul or Mirai Nikki but ummmm those are not like Shinji at all. And they aren't well written. A character which I will say is like Shinji is Yuri from Yuri on Ice. But since Evangelion is Older than Bebop, I am going to call you out on your shit. :P Pretty sure indecisive protag has been around for a while. If you want overconfident- Try watching Pokemon. Ash is still confident as ever. |
The anime community in a nutshell.  |
kikiabdull said: I don't think it's extinct. There are still famous main characters who are decisive and confident like Luffy, Natsu, Shimazu Toyohisha and Saitama. They are still exits and known to many people. I actually prefer cowards and cunning bastards as protagonist like Favaro, John Constantine and Jack Sparrow. They seem more rare Captain Harlock is pretty sexy. Can we pretty please have more characters like him? When I think of "a man that gets my panties wet for being a man" Harlock be up there. But he is too pretty. :P Too sensitive. Too indecisive at times. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
ThatCynicalOtaku said: Why problem with anime is how unbalanced the protagonists are. They always fall into one of these categories: Brooding emo turds Bland harem lead Generic I'll-save-my-friends Pussies Yells-a-lot dumbass I want anime protagonists that are a balance between seriousness, humour, coolness, like Jousuke Higashikata. Ummm welp. I am not going to agree cause I love characters like Shinji Ikari and Kintaro Oe. But at least they weren't boring.... last thing you could call either is generic. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
ThatCynicalOtaku said: Rotton-Girl said: Ummm welp. I am not going to agree cause I love characters like Shinji Ikari and Kintaro Oe. But at least they weren't boring.... last thing you could call either is generic. I should've been more clear. I don't necessarily dislike a character for fitting in those archetypes (aside from bland harem lead), I just want to see protagonists that are more mixed. I actually love characters like Shinji Ikari, Jotaro Kujou, Joseph Joestar, Guts, etc. But actual people are far more complex and consist of a combination of a variety of personalities. At home, someone can be goofy, while outside, stoic. Again, Jousuke Higashikata: sometimes he's a serious and polite kid as expected of a Japanese person, sometimes he just likes to goof around, and other times he's dead serious, or hot headed (come to think of it, Jojo protagonists seem to get more complex as the Parts go further) i think when mangaka write adults, it tends to lead to better stories. Just sayin. |
| The anime community in a nutshell. |
| In terms of protagonists, yes. I can indeed see that. Overall though, there are still quite a few macho characters. They're just not the main characters anymore. All Might obviously, or at least when he's using his quirk which I assume is something that he used to be able to use for entire days. You could also say that Youkoso jitsuryouku etc etc lol has a macho protagonist, alongside a cast of even more macho men.. Last last season though, we got some macho protagonist. There's busou shoujo machievallism, and 2 more from what I have watched which could be argued to be macho mains as well such as Zero kara hajimeru mahou no sho and shuumatsu nani shitemasu ka. Most of these are indeed high schoolers though, so in the sense of machoness? I guess lol, they might not count. Idk lol |
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Aidoru-Ojisan said: Guessing it's because of the concept of making "the main character relatable to the viewers" and let's be honest, most dudes who watch Anime now of days are insecure and indecisive, well that's just a factor now of days, tbh I doubt most people are macho like Kenshiro, Spike or Guts back then and now so maybe it's just the change that has come with time. (oh a beard man :o, I like them a lot too makes them look more badass, wish we could have more MCs like that *Amon Amarth plays in background*) Hey, I go to the gym 5 times a week, I play basketball around 2 days a week, boxing 4 times a week and I play volleyball once a week. I am not insecure and indecisive. Self insert mc's for me: Light Yagami, itou makoto, takamura (except that I'm not a world champion yet.) |
Takamura-samaSep 20, 2017 12:27 AM
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful. | You know what I hate the most? People who aren't free. They're no more than cattle. |
pgmhecateii said: you are probably the biggest fan of Gintama I've ever seen.The next season of Gintama is coming up, I can just count on that. <3 |
Hrybami said: lihle808 said: okay i get your point,it does sometimes treat women in a crude way but not all the time(look at daenerys and Cersei, they have powerful roles in the series). But i agree with you and respect your resolve.game of thrones is the best series out there, you should have your sexuality checked out. It's even best than any anime you have ever watched. I don't like series that screams "hey look how mature this it". Most of the times it's just dialogues that push the conception of douchebag too far giving the impression that the good characters are relatively nice. I'm not fond how women are treated like garbage in this series. Playing with relativism doesn't work well with me. I don't care if Game of Thrones is better. I prefer my favourites anime rather than this emo series by a large scale actually and I feel no regret about it. Hrybami said: Okay i agree it does sometimes potray women in a crude manner but not all the time, look at Daenerys and Cersei thy have powerful roles in the series. But either way i respect your resolve.lihle808 said: game of thrones is the best series out there, you should have your sexuality checked out. It's even best than any anime you have ever watched. I don't like series that screams "hey look how mature this it". Most of the times it's just dialogues that push the conception of douchebag too far giving the impression that the good characters are relatively nice. I'm not fond how women are treated like garbage in this series. Playing with relativism doesn't work well with me. I don't care if Game of Thrones is better. I prefer my favourites anime rather than this emo series by a large scale actually and I feel no regret about it. |
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
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