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FlamepriesT said: I think this is a really stupid argument - or at least it does seem like one - so I won't waste my time saying anything beyond what I'll say now.
I just wanted to say "near" doesn't necessarily mean "right next to". Being a couple of floors apart or in the middle of the forest could be "near" enough, it all depends on Nasu's definition. He could easily just say it's close enough and that's it.
That's no different from saying Shirou was healed by Saber's sheath in spite of her absence and claiming it was due to her residual energy. Yet, it makes perfect sense in this narrative - it's a fantasy story after all.
Yeah, there's no real definition of how Avalon works with distance from Saber or whatever. It's all down to how Nasu wants to use it. His world, his rules, his asspulls. Even in the VN, he stretches concepts quite a bit, such as Archer's ridiculous IA abuse.
That poor jacket though. It's soon forgotten by everyone and probably
burned down along with the castle later on.
nocorras said:
Botato said: Hm, kind of spoilers for later events or maybe just next episode but in this episode
I noticed that in the scenes inside Shirou's head, Shirou was inside his own UBW - there were no gears in the sky. I kinda liked that, does this mean that we'll get something like the vita OP? I won't be mad about casting UBW this episode if we do get Shirou vs. Archer with both their UBWs in the scenery.
It was just an aesthetic thing/symbolism in the vita OP. It wouldn't actually work like that.
Still, considering they used UBW for coolness, I wouldn't be averse to seeing the UBW clash. It's AU after all, and it would be so awesome~
Best Episode Ever!! From Archer's and Shirou's fight (and also the new awesome soundtrack by Aimer) and Lancer saving Rin and beating the shit out of Shinji
Best Episode Ever!! From Archer's and Shirou's fight (and also the new awesome soundtrack by Aimer) and Lancer saving Rin and beating the shit out of Shinji
well i guess i should finaly get the post out there.
well that episode was......about what i expected. it feels like it could have benefitted more from stronger buildup especially in the shirou department.
-the aimer song was alright i guess, dont know whether it's a little tryhard or just the big big moment i wanted it to be.
-gotta wait to see what they do next week to draw a honest final coclusion to the scene but so far enjoyable
-given that the anime only said that his Archer's mana is depleted and not a solid number of "less than 10%" it could have been a little forgivable for Archer to cast UBW but they showed him partially dissapearing...yada yadda yadda symbolism and shit. with this being said wouldnt it have been better for UBW to appear in their minds due to the feedback Shirou is receiving or something along those lines, especially since a majority of the immagry was in shirou's head from the feedback anyways.
-avalon's healing felt a little hammy but whatever at least the expanded upon the avalon explanation a little bit. i was hoping they would do that since no fate route and all we got here was archer going "wtf? how is he still moving? oh wait.....it's that goddamn sheath"
-hmmm i thought that maybe Bazzet would have possibly gotten another refrence during death of a hero, they hella could have done it especially after the chilly man reffrenced her. anyone else think there might be a chance for her to get another reference?
well anyways 5/5 looking forward to the rest of The Answer.
-given that the anime only said that his Archer's mana is depleted and not a solid number of "less than 10%" it could have been a little forgivable for Archer to cast UBW but they showed him partially dissapearing...yada yadda yadda symbolism and shit. with this being said wouldnt it have been better for UBW to appear in their minds due to the feedback Shirou is receiving or something along those lines, especially since a majority of the immagry was in shirou's head from the feedback anyways.
Yeah, the UBW was really uneeded, but I suppose since the VN had Archer
surviving for another day, and then projecting Rho Aias and sword spamming in the finale
the anime could be given a bit off leeway when it comes to what Archer can or cannot do with his Independent Action. And yeah, it was kind of useless anyway since most of the ep didn't even take place in it. :/
God damn this episode was amazing. This entire show has been like a dream. I can't help but think back to when I was reading the VN and wishing to see a lot of this stuff animated.
The wait for these final episodes and the HF movies might kill me.
-given that the anime only said that his Archer's mana is depleted and not a solid number of "less than 10%" it could have been a little forgivable for Archer to cast UBW but they showed him partially dissapearing...yada yadda yadda symbolism and shit. with this being said wouldnt it have been better for UBW to appear in their minds due to the feedback Shirou is receiving or something along those lines, especially since a majority of the immagry was in shirou's head from the feedback anyways.
Yeah, the UBW was really uneeded, but I suppose since the VN had Archer
surviving for another day, and then projecting Rho Aias and sword spamming in the finale
the anime could be given a bit off leeway when it comes to what Archer can or cannot do with his Independent Action. And yeah, it was kind of useless anyway since most of the ep didn't even take place in it. :/
It's good for imagery. It's a dimly light place devoid of life. A hell that is holding the fight where Shirou is facing the limits and problems of his ideals while looking at another hell in its past. Having the fight in UBw shows the similarity and the difference (UBW is a place where Shirou can make something out of himself. There is hope to be there now, where he can experience a rebirth which is symbolized by the fire shown when shirou pulled the sword (that symbolizes his ideal).
loved when lancer just throw shinji(deserves it)
though can't wait for heavens feel for
shinji to die
the fight between shirou and archer was awesome(though not over yet) and loved the song that played when they had that flash back scene
now kind of wondering how there gonna do the
CookingPriest said: Well at least they did Lancer scene justice and worst fears did not come to passs. Rejoice people, at least they did Kirei's death right even if I hoped for more of hot-blooded lines from Lancer and maybe some smirks there. Still greatest part of EP.
"Answer"(i put it in quotations since it is not the real Answer) was mostly meh. It was pretty much Shirou doing his typical TEMEEE screams with none of actual thoughts that made Answer the deepest moment in UBW. And they used EMIYA theme at the wrong time.
And of course Archer then casts UBW for no reason at all and the show's powerlevels are completely and utterly fucked(even more so than they already are. And then he keeps not using UBW at all? What was the point of even casting it ffs?
Seriously show, did we need dat edgy emorock for the final scene? Seriously? The scene was decent even if utterly shonen-y but that emorock pretty much made me burst up laughing.
And the huge problem with this episode is the lack of any sort of build up to Answer, namely to Shirou's ideals. Why should we care that Shirou believes it is not a mistake? How should we know how important the ideals are to Shirou and why? How are the viewers supposed to root for Shirou in this fight when they know nothing about his ideals or how they changed or what he believes in? It feels completely one-sided while at this moment the viewer is already supposed to know what Shirou thinks, why and the conclusions he came to.
As it stands it does more to characterize Archer(the less important POSSIBILITY of Shirou) than Shirou that actually developed in this route.
And dont give me that shit about "meh they changed it to reduce monologues" - they still have monologues...but for wrong people.
Too sum up - too much Archer wank, not nearly enough Shirou focus.
What should have been Shirou teaching Archer a lesson from what Shirou experienced through the route was turned into Achaa teaching idiot ginger a lesson. Meh.
3/5
Plot holes?
- Archer is not supposed to even be able to cast UBW int his state.
- In UBW Archer should be able to grind Shirou to paste in seconds. But alas in the show UBW is just a pretty scenery with no purpose at all.
- Projections are not supposed to "chip away". They are supposed to disappear.
For once, I find that you actually sufficiently-justified the rating you gave.
Pretty sure that UBW will actually be used in the next episode. And the chipping away part was probably for aesthetics.
That was pretty great stuff. I thought there wasn't enough emphasis on Shirou's ideals being borrowed and fake but I'm kinda glad it didn't use repetition to bang in the point like the VN. Everything was simply beautiful and far better than I expected especially the scenes inside Shirou's head.
I'm worried that they're making UBW look pretty useless though. I think its mechanics are pretty important.
SaiyaGin said: Shinji was a really entertaining character. How can someone be so dumb and so abhorrent at the same time?
Its all in the hair, man. That beautiful wakame hair.
OneTrueEmiya said: Stream was going on and off, so I couldn't here the replacement for EMIYA ost. I'll wait for subs for that particular issue, but from everything else I've seen, 10/10, or as close as I can give it that without feeling just a little sour about not getting EMIYA at the right time.
Lancer was Lancer, and the look on Shinji's face was once again priceless. Archer casting UBW was unexpected and uneeded, but cool enough to warrant the "fine, it's AU" excuse for it. From what I hear, Avalon was used when my stream petered off...? Shirou's contract should be cut already, but I'll give ufo some leeway so they can explain what happened next ep or something.
EMIYA was strangely calming, which makes me wonder if we'll get yet another edition later on (in Answer Part 2 or the last battle). But this ep. Lancer. Shinji. EMIYA. a UBW summon. And probably more if the stuff I missed is as good as people have touted it as in this thread. kk Ufo, take your 10/10 again~
It was in the VN, and Archer explained it here, as well.
What exactly happened in the end of this ep? Did Avalon heal him completely? What did Archer say?
Avalon healed him with it's glorious flashy-ness(inside Shirou's mind).
It also partly helped him fight back. For some reason. Then he stood up(he was half-conscious before) and Archer said that same thing he did in the VN, plus some more things about Seibah and Kerry.
Ah, I see. Then apart from lack of EMIYA 2015 playing, what's the problem there? Why all the complaints thrown around?
Bored VN readers looking for something to nitpick at. They seem to have forgotten that it's a canon AU.
I swear. To me, a non VN watched, its f*cking epic
lindsayzzz said: As an anime-only watched, this episode was fucking amazing! I loved the fact that Lancer was completely done was able to kill off Kotomine for good and even scare off Shinji. Lancer became such a great ally to Shirou and especially Rin. Really sad to see him gone but he was a cool character.
The highlight of the episode was definitely the entirety of the Shirou vs Archer fight though. I absolutely love the trace on animation and sound effects. xD The best part was when Shirou saw the flashbacks/visions of hell and seeing Kiritsugu saving his younger self. Man, I got chills from those scenes, especially seeing Kiritsugu crying again. I liked the insert song that played during that scene too. I just love how Saber being Shirou's servant wasn't just luck and it was linked. Shirou tracing on Archer's proper blades was badass. Become the hero of justice, SHIROU! 5/5
Shirou is so idiot. He still did not notice his dream is an utopia, he can't save everybody. He should just focus saving Rin and his family. I hate him, too bad he will not die and will make the same mistake Archer did... infinite idiotic loop.
jirico said: Shirou is so idiot. He still did not notice his dream is an utopia, he can't save everybody. He should just focus saving Rin and his family. I hate him, too bad he will not die and will make the same mistake Archer did... infinite idiotic loop.
I'm done seeing Archer trying to convince him.
- He already knows
- Archer isn't trying to convince him.........both are trying to kill each other
One thing i hate about season 2 is that,Saber has basically done nothing so far.I was really excited seeing rin as her master, with full mana supply and all,I was expecting to see a big fight.But just like the name of the anime suggested,its all about unlimited blade works which archer had to release 2x.
jirico said: Shirou is so idiot. He still did not notice his dream is an utopia, he can't save everybody. He should just focus saving Rin and his family. I hate him, too bad he will not die and will make the same mistake Archer did... infinite idiotic loop.
I'm done seeing Archer trying to convince him.
- He already knows
- Archer isn't trying to convince him.........both are trying to kill each other
Meh, Archer would be pretty inept at murder and wasteful if he isn't at the very least subconsciously trying to convince him. I mean if he didn't at least want to convince him, what's the point of always wanting him to see things?
Yaaay finally caught up to the episodes on air. I expect more of Shirou-Archer fight in the next episode. Man, lancer just showed how awesome characters are supposed to act, but when he stabbed himself (just like lancer from Fate/Zero (why always lancers?) ) why he didn't disappear? Simply because he was tough?
Noir… It is the name of an ancient fate. Two sisters who watch anime. The peace of the newly born, their black hands protect.
Let's all talk about F/Z spoilers in a thread when the OP clearly says you shouldn't. Just to piss off those who did the right thing and decided to watch F/SN first. Oh, yes!
Lancer epicness: The guy is a beast. He drove Gae Bolg thru Kirei into the fucking stone wall. Really, nice touch. I also liked the love tap he gave Shinji. It’s different from the serious shoulder wound he gave him in the VN but it in a way it’s even more of a ‘fuck you’. His death felt a little more drawn out than in the VN which carries the sole downside of
making Diarmuid look like a little bitch for dying so quickly. ‘Giving up after getting impaled through the heart? What are you a pussy?’ I like both lancers so I say this in jest.
Shirou v Archer: Introduced some interesting mechanics like literally syphoning battle experience via though the blades. Visually, reminiscent of the Matrix code. The fighting itself was fine and a cool illustration of Archer’s “clear as a stream” swordsmanship. I had mixed (but generally negative) feelings about Archer casting UBW though.
UBW NP: The first question that comes to mind is how the hell can a heroic spirit who’s struggling to maintain his form cast a mana-intensive reality marble? DBZ pulled that shit all the time when an utterly depleted hero/enemy would suddenly get a second wind and fight at max strength for 10min, get depleted again, get another wind again…and repeat that for 5 episodes. It was a cheap trick to keep the audience in perpetual suspense, which came at the cost of credibility. We’ve seen archer get mauled by Lancer, lose his master, get mauled by Saber, cast UBW (masterless), and spend a full day burning irreplaceable mana, struggle to stay together….and now cast a brand new UBW. No, seriously, how much is left in the tank?
The next issue is the UBW noble phantasm itself. It’s a cool visual but the anime’s explanation of the NP has been pretty terrible so far. The only explanation offered was “it reproduces and stores any weapon whose original I've seen”. Great, now how does that translate into a battle advantage? We’ve seen Archer create a hail of swords against Caster and we’ve seen him create a hail of swords against Saber/Shirou in UBW…what’s the difference? I got my answer from the VN but I wouldn’t know from just the anime, which is a major problem. That was all E18 though, in this episode things are further muddied by the fact that Archer cast UBW without actually using UBW. It added some surreal scenery but it didn’t (well, hasn’t yet) functioned like a NP. I hope this issue gets addressed next Ep.
The Answer: I’m sorry to be a killjoy but I didn’t like this scene in either the VN or the anime. While I’m sure some hardcore VN readers will hate the new content, I thought Shirou’s thought process and conclusions were essentially unchanged from the VN. Kiritsugu cameo,
Sword in the Stone imagery
, and cheesy flames aside, Shirou’s “answer” to Archer’s existence can be boiled down to simple denial—Yes, I have all the evidence in front of me that my path is wrong and will lead to disaster but NO, it’s not wrong because… *unleash shounen rage* because…I’m not going to think too hard about it!!!-- Summed up with the quote “just because you’re correct doesn’t mean you’re right”. If there is a MAL user who things I’m shitting on Shirou too much I’d be happy to discuss all the backward, illogical drivel that comes out of his mouth in a separate conversation.
Shirou’s “borrowed” Ideal: Shirou is many things. He’s an annoyingly good-natured shounen, he’s a quixotic fuckwit… he’s an (VN spoiler ahead) aficionado of
rough, semi-consensual sex
but, in his defense, he never “stole” or “borrowed” an ideal that wasn’t “within himself”--and therefore cannot be called a “fake” in that sense. Archer threw that claim his face in a few “gotcha” moments but it fell flat for me because I don’t think he stole anything. Example: If my dad is a hardworking man and I too aspire to be a hardworking man, have I stolen his ideal? No, if he’s my role model then his ideal becomes my ideal. Likewise, Shirou was inspired to be a superhero by Kiritsugu. As naïve as that wish might be, I don’t know why that makes him a fake or the ideal itself “borrowed” unless he’s just using his Superhero costume to impress girls or get discounts at Starbucks.
Scabbard: This part was played up more in the anime than in the VN which I think was a mistake. It’s problematic because the 3 lines of anime-only explanation from Archer can’t compete with revelations from the entire Fate route from the VN/Deen. The ufotable anime hasn’t even technically confirmed Saber’s identity, let alone gone into detail about her scabbard.
Most Western viewers who read bedtime stories as a child should be able to piece together Sword n’ Stone + Britain = Arthur, but then again, wasn’t King Arthur a guy? How does that scabbard work again? Wasn’t the scabbard lost when Morgan le Fay stole it? Ok, but how did Kiritsugu get the scabbard? Etc.
. I do have one question for VN readers, why doesn’t Archer also have Saber’s healing scabbard in him? I don’t think that was every addressed in the VN.
Anyway, I look forward to the future post-Answer episodes.
UBW has a VERY GOOD purpose: Preventing "outsiders" like Gil or Lancer to interfere. Seriously, peoples' reasoning, escpacially the VN readers who always analyze the VN to the utmost, suddenly turn their brain off when it comes to the anime, sometimes...
Grey-Zone said: UBW has a VERY GOOD purpose: Preventing "outsiders" like Gil or Lancer to interfere. Seriously, peoples' reasoning, escpacially the VN readers who always analyze the VN to the utmost, suddenly turn their brain off when it comes to the anime, sometimes...
Well he took the trouble to use UBW again and while noting the isolation purpose you stated, why didn't he use UBW to the fullest as well? He activated it, might as well use it.
Grey-Zone said: UBW has a VERY GOOD purpose: Preventing "outsiders" like Gil or Lancer to interfere. Seriously, peoples' reasoning, escpacially the VN readers who always analyze the VN to the utmost, suddenly turn their brain off when it comes to the anime, sometimes...
Well he took the trouble to use UBW again and while noting the isolation purpose you stated, why didn't he use UBW to the fullest as well? He activated it, might as well use it.
What for? He didn't need it, as he won anyway and it's more "personal" to attack by melee. Now, next episode is another matter, so we may finally see him use it. He already decided that melee wouldn't be necessary by throwing K&B, so I hope we will get to see it in use again.
The Lancer scenes and seeing Kirei die 10/10
Shinji's humiliation 10/10
Shirou's flashback 10/10
OST 10/10
Shirou finaling appearing as the badass he is 100000/10
I loved this episode. I'm kiinda sad it didn't have an OP but this way there was more time for the fight.
Also, how did Archer did UBW again?? That part didn't appear in the movie, and if I recall correctly, it didn't appear in the vn as well, even though I'm not sure.
Grey-Zone said: UBW has a VERY GOOD purpose: Preventing "outsiders" like Gil or Lancer to interfere. Seriously, peoples' reasoning, escpacially the VN readers who always analyze the VN to the utmost, suddenly turn their brain off when it comes to the anime, sometimes...
Well he took the trouble to use UBW again and while noting the isolation purpose you stated, why didn't he use UBW to the fullest as well? He activated it, might as well use it.
What for? He didn't need it, as he won anyway and it's more "personal" to attack by melee. Now, next episode is another matter, so we may finally see him use it.
Still could've used it though, I mean it's activated. Le waste of mana ftw, and yes I'm acknowledging your isolation point.
It's like saying I buy some takeout meal just for the box, then not touch the food at all.
The Answer: I’m sorry to be a killjoy but I didn’t like this scene in either the VN or the anime. While I’m sure some hardcore VN readers will hate the new content, I thought Shirou’s thought process and conclusions were essentially unchanged from the VN. Kiritsugu cameo,
Sword in the Stone imagery
, and cheesy flames aside, Shirou’s “answer” to Archer’s existence can be boiled down to simple denial—Yes, I have all the evidence in front of me that my path is wrong and will lead to disaster but NO, it’s not wrong because… *unleash shounen rage* because…I’m not going to think too hard about it!!!-- Summed up with the quote “just because you’re correct doesn’t mean you’re right”. If there is a MAL user who things I’m shitting on Shirou too much I’d be happy to discuss all the backward, illogical drivel that comes out of his mouth in a separate conversation.
Correct is about fact, right is more about morality.
Even if it will he hell, even if he can't save everyone, he know the beauty of the ideal and the worthiness of his cause.