No Game No Life (light novel)
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May 1, 2014 8:07 PM
#251
Takuan_Soho said: To answer Jiraiya a different way: Cheaters think everyone else cheats, liars think everyone else lies, paranoid people think that everyone else is paranoid. People create their own hells by pretending that they are in heaven. Kurumi to her credit, did want to "save" humanity, but she was willing to sell herself to the elves to become King so she could save humanity, but a funny thing is that people become what they most hate (which is why cheaters and liars are so good at explaining why they aren't cheaters and liars). Kurumi couldn't believe that Sora was able to win on his own, because if it were true then SHE would have to admit that she was wrong, that she wasn't humanity's savior but was their final traitor. So to maintain her illusion, she had to believe that Sora was using magic and that this magic made what he said become true, as Shiro said she was weak and trapped, but where she was trapped was psychologically - she could have survived if she admitted that Sora wasn't using magic, but if she admitted that then she would have to admit that her plan was really her taking the cowards way out. Given that situation she, as most people, would rather be right and lose, then to admit they were wrong and win (when she was finally forced to admit to this was when she completely broke down) Maybe I'm just far more ruthless and logical than Kurami but I find that line of thinking ridiculous. If she had any doubts whatsoever before the game started, it should've been cleared during the game as I mentioned there are plenty of evidences that Sora can't use magic. If she kept believing that Sora could win without magic, that's just her being so gullible that she practically admitted defeat before the game even started. Think about it, she literally had no proof that Sora can win without magic and she believed that with all her heart. As the game went on it became clear that Sora can't use magic so the thought process would be: Sora lied>he has no magic power>I should win this easily but what happened was: Sora lied>he has no magic power>shit, he still can win even without magic. Why? It became so ridiculously convoluted that Kurami forgot the main objective of playing the games, which is to win at all cost. |
May 1, 2014 8:13 PM
#252
Sapewloth said: Takuan_Soho said: snip Much thanks. Seems way clearer now. I guess I kinda needed that explanation, cause I really didn't get the whole 'embodiment of the will of the player' from what the anime gave me... :/ The "embodiment of will" was more implied than stated, it goes back to how the pieces moved according the the "charisma" of the players. For Kurumi this was a smoke screen to cover how she was cheating, for Sora though, he took her fake explanation and made it real. I haven't read the novels (but will somewhat soon), but I would bet there was a brief explanation about how the pieces did not have volition, but rather acted to the character the chess pieces are ascribed (i.e. the queen acted like a queen, the knight like a knight, the pawns like foot-soldiers, even the king as either a King or tyrant). I sort of wish we could have seen Sora convert a bishop, that would have cemented what I believe to be his intent. |
May 1, 2014 8:16 PM
#253
jiraiya_sensei said: Takuan_Soho said: To answer Jiraiya a different way: Cheaters think everyone else cheats, liars think everyone else lies, paranoid people think that everyone else is paranoid. People create their own hells by pretending that they are in heaven. Kurumi to her credit, did want to "save" humanity, but she was willing to sell herself to the elves to become King so she could save humanity, but a funny thing is that people become what they most hate (which is why cheaters and liars are so good at explaining why they aren't cheaters and liars). Kurumi couldn't believe that Sora was able to win on his own, because if it were true then SHE would have to admit that she was wrong, that she wasn't humanity's savior but was their final traitor. So to maintain her illusion, she had to believe that Sora was using magic and that this magic made what he said become true, as Shiro said she was weak and trapped, but where she was trapped was psychologically - she could have survived if she admitted that Sora wasn't using magic, but if she admitted that then she would have to admit that her plan was really her taking the cowards way out. Given that situation she, as most people, would rather be right and lose, then to admit they were wrong and win (when she was finally forced to admit to this was when she completely broke down) Maybe I'm just far more ruthless and logical than Kurami but I find that line of thinking ridiculous. If she had any doubts whatsoever before the game started, it should've been cleared during the game as I mentioned there are plenty of evidences that Sora can't use magic. If she kept believing that Sora could win without magic, that's just her being so gullible that she practically admitted defeat before the game even started. Think about it, she literally had no proof that Sora can win without magic and she believed that with all her heart. As the game went on it became clear that Sora can't use magic so the thought process would be: Sora lied>he has no magic power>I should win this easily but what happened was: Sora lied>he has no magic power>shit, he still can win even without magic. Why? It became so ridiculously convoluted that Kurami forgot the main objective of playing the games, which is to win at all cost. You forgot that have 16 races and we don't know the other ones (maybe even Kurami don't really know specifically the magic of all the rest of 14 races, taking in consideration imanity can't use and she knows elves magic power). If you don't know how everyone magic works, how you can say for sure that it's clear he can't use magic? Kurumi thought everything Sora was saying and doing by his speeches was magic, doesn't she? |
AlannisMay 1, 2014 8:23 PM
May 1, 2014 8:25 PM
#254
jiraiya_sensei said: Maybe I'm just far more ruthless and logical than Kurami but I find that line of thinking ridiculous. No, you just come from a culture that allows you the delusion of ego. Kurumi didn't have that luxury. Put yourself in her shoes: all her life humanity has lost because the other races cheated, she didn't have the illusion that she could win without magic because no one had ever won without magic. That negative thinking, as Sora said to both her and Steph, helped promote their losing. jiraiya_sensei said: If she had any doubts whatsoever before the game started, it should've been cleared during the game as I mentioned there are plenty of evidences that Sora can't use magic. Two things wrong with that statement: 1) Kurumi never had doubts, she assumed that someone was supporting Sora. 2) She didn't think that Sora could use magic, she assumed that someone who could use magic was supporting Sora. (quick note: it was Steph, not Kurumi, who assumed that the phone could detect magic). jiraiya_sensei said: If she kept believing that Sora could win without magic, that's just her being so gullible that she practically admitted defeat before the game even started. Think about it, she literally had no proof that Sora can win without magic and she believed that with all her heart. As the game went on it became clear that Sora can't use magic so the thought process would be: Sora lied>he has no magic power>I should win this easily but what happened was: Sora lied>he has no magic power>shit, he still can win even without magic. Why? It became so ridiculously convoluted that Kurami forgot the main objective of playing the games, which is to win at all cost. You really are missing the point. Kurumi wasn't thinking "I have to win at all cost", she was thinking "I have to have better magic than Sora has" or i.e. "I have to cheat better than Sora is cheating". She wasn't being "gullible", that was her accepting what she thought to be reality. And why would she think that Sora wasn't using magic. She couldn't get the pieces to move without magic, that Sora got them to move even more so than she could do wasn't evidence that he couldn't use magic, but rather evidence that he had GREATER magic. |
May 1, 2014 8:33 PM
#255
Helpme said: opondica said: To place it in a real, world context, try the following example: re-watch the show and then replace "humanity" with any racial group or nation from the real world. No, this shows target audience isn't like that. Your sensibilities are too American. What you should replace it with is 'otaku'. See how it makes sense from that perspective? I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to say that replacing "humanity" in the main character's speeches with "otaku" makes him sound like he's talking up the otaku life? If so, I guess I partly agree. Although I think it's common to associate them, NEET and otaku aren't really the same thing, and this show definitely seems rather pro-NEET. First there's the two main characters who are incredibly skilled NEETs who apparently never lose games. Then there's all the discussion, in the context of the current status of humans in the fantasy world, about how being weak is actually a strength. That's a sentiment which one could easily extend to NEETs, a group that it would probably be appropriate to label as 'weak.' So I think it's rather likely at this point that that's what the 'target audience' is taking away from the show, as you said. I don't think any of that gets in the way of the point I was trying to make, though. I may have been unclear as well, but the point I was trying to make is that Sora's speeches about humanity are 'pro-human' in a way that could reasonably be expected to piss off anyone who isn't human. Now whether it's intended that the viewer replace "human" with "otaku" or with something else doesn't really matter to me. It wouldn't matter even if the viewer wasn't intended to view that speech as being about anything other than humanity. What matters is that the way Sora talks about humanity would be annoying to me if I were not a member of the group he was talking about. Because I understand this annoyance I end up annoyed at him even though he is talking about humanity, a group that I am a member of. Maybe it's a little silly to get annoyed at this given that elves and so forth don't really exist. I don't think it is, though. I mean, the way he views humanity doesn't seem that different from the way that a hardcore nationalist views their country, or from the way that someone who says "the NEET life is best, all you non-NEETs suck!" views being a NEET. And of course in the hypothetical and quite possibly unrealistic scenario that humanity does encounter extraterrestrial intelligent life, the attitude he presents, unaltered, will undoubtedly present problems. I'm not really sure how you got "your sensibilities are too American" from what I said, though. Nationalism is pretty popular in America, as far as I can tell. Maybe racism isn't but I'm pretty sure it's unpopular in other countries too. I hear South Africa doesn't particularly like it, for instance. baki502 said: I actually quite like the fact that he is going for world conquest. Id like to see more anime like that, I mean in this anime its pretty harmless since its decided by games, but Id like to see more anime where the MC tries to conquer the world in the real world for example. Weve had enough anime with honorable and good MC, why not have a vew evil MC and have them conquer the world, with all the dirtying your hands involved in it. As for the humans being the weakest part, they always will be the weakest. That ranking isnt decided by the amount of territory they have but by their magical and physical abilities I believe. Since humans arent particularly strong nor can they use any magic at all, they would be considered the weakest even if they owned the whole world. Unless they then changed the rules this ranking is based on. As for myself I also think its pretty overhyped. I mean I enjoy it a lot, but its very much style and no substance. Its not bothering me too much and I am still enjoying it, but the people are overdoing it in singing the show its praises. I don't think I'll ever feel that there are too many honorable and good protagonists, yet I agree that it's nice to see some villainous ones too. I'm not really sure I think this show qualifies, even if the main duo are aiming to conquer the world. They've basically set themselves up as the saviors of humankind in their new universe and it seems like their world conquest is going to be more along the lines of 'beaten and downtrodden people overthrow the evil empire' than 'villain conquers the world.' Obviously I don't really see them as heroes for conquering the world in the name of humanity but so far it seems like the show very well might end up portraying them that way. I guess they 'get their hands dirty' in that there's a whole lot of cheating going on in this world, but it's hardly out of the question for a character who uses extreme means to achieve a goal that the show portrays as good to be portrayed as a noble hero rather than a villain. If what you said about the ranking being based on magic talent is right, then you're right about humans always being weakest, in terms of ranking. I wasn't really talking about the official in-universe ranking when I said what I said. At the point when the main characters have conquered the vast majority of the other races, I would be unsurprised to find that humanity is the strongest race in terms of "game-winning ability." Honestly, I think the main characters' gaming skill is such that they may already be the 'most powerful' even if they aren't rated as such in the story. |
May 1, 2014 8:41 PM
#256
NGNL reminds me a lot of Code Geass. I'm loving it so far! I cant wait to see what other games/cool speeches they come up with next! :D |
May 1, 2014 9:13 PM
#257
Things are starting to heat up, that speech Sora made, blank declaring war on the other races and there final objective or defeating god ..! I can't wait !! |
May 1, 2014 9:36 PM
#258
tyrannosaurusbex said: NGNL reminds me a lot of Code Geass. I'm loving it so far! I cant wait to see what other games/cool speeches they come up with next! :D Humm, both have an interesting and somewhat believable OP, but outside of that not getting the comparison. That said, if this can continue the CG vibe for the entire run, my popcorn quota will be fulfilled. |
May 1, 2014 9:42 PM
#259
This show is wish fulfillment at its finest. Two NEETs find themselves in another world, and end up ruling it. Sure. Cool. No Game no Life is certainly not the only offender. Hell, this season alone has quite a few shows like this. Mekaku City Actors, for one. Guy lives alone in what looks like is a mansion, and seems to have some kind of power. This whole NEET/hikikomori thing is becoming a phenomenon in anime lately, and it's never treated as a serious issue. It's always fun and games when you're a NEET! I can't even remember the last time it was talked about in a serious manner. Space Brothers had one or two episodes, I believe. Even Anohana, for all its melodrama, didn't shy away from the reality of being a NEET. And the masterpiece that is Welcome to the NHK goes without saying... I hope there's some kind of backstory that explains why they became NEETs, but for now the MC is suave and charismatic with a near-genius intellect. He's almost superhuman, actually. |
May 1, 2014 9:44 PM
#260
Im liking this show alot, Its so entertaining. :D The chess match was really cool! Shiro is sooo cute with her crown~ And Soras shirt "I love humanity" hahaha! His speech was great too! Great episode. |
May 1, 2014 9:53 PM
#261
I love how he became Hitler |
May 1, 2014 10:22 PM
#262
Mormegil said: This show is wish fulfillment at its finest. Two NEETs find themselves in another world, and end up ruling it. Sure. Cool. No Game no Life is certainly not the only offender. Hell, this season alone has quite a few shows like this. Mekaku City Actors, for one. Guy lives alone in what looks like is a mansion, and seems to have some kind of power. This whole NEET/hikikomori thing is becoming a phenomenon in anime lately, and it's never treated as a serious issue. It's always fun and games when you're a NEET! I can't even remember the last time it was talked about in a serious manner. Space Brothers had one or two episodes, I believe. Even Anohana, for all its melodrama, didn't shy away from the reality of being a NEET. And the masterpiece that is Welcome to the NHK goes without saying... I hope there's some kind of backstory that explains why they became NEETs, but for now the MC is suave and charismatic with a near-genius intellect. He's almost superhuman, actually. They are not "NEETs", they are not Hikokomori, and this is not wish fulfillment. Stop using terms you don't understand. First both of them are too young to be NEETs, Sora is only 18, which means he could still technically be in high school and as such cannot be a NEET (which applies to those who should either be in college or working). Being a NEET is a 20ish term. Second there is no indication that they are Hikikomori. That both have personality disorders was established the first episode, however when they are together there is nothing to indicate that they cannot leave their room if they wanted to. By all indications the reason they stay in their room playing games is because they are bored with reality, not because they are fleeing from reality. Hikikomori is generally another expression for adults, not teenagers. Third, this show is not about wish fulfillment. The Siblings are not losers in the real world, they are super geniuses who are bored with reality, and who have been given a wonderful new toy to play with. Wish fulfillment is about an average person becoming a hero in some alternative world, there was nothing "average" about either character in the real world (unless we believe the average gamer can play 4 characters with his hands and feet) and less so in this fantasy world. While what they do in the real world hasn't been shown, by all indication both have more than enough money to support their decision. Most likely their parents were killed, and Sora promised to take care of Shiro and they are living on their inheritance. That again is not very NEETish, Kikikomori or wish fulfillmentish. |
May 1, 2014 10:37 PM
#263
Takuan_Soho said: No, you just come from a culture that allows you the delusion of ego. Kurumi didn't have that luxury. Put yourself in her shoes: all her life humanity has lost because the other races cheated, she didn't have the illusion that she could win without magic because no one had ever won without magic. That negative thinking, as Sora said to both her and Steph, helped promote their losing. That would bring me back to my other point that the Imanity in this series has very low IQ because it doesn't seem to take much brain power to defeat magic, just some bravado and guile (I stated this in earlier pages). Sora & Shiro can't be the first trickster to appear in that world? There are so many ways to cheat without using magic, surely someone would have thought about it and won against magic at least once? It's just a very "convenient" setting that the entire race was cowardly and dumb. Takuan_Soho said: Two things wrong with that statement: 1) Kurumi never had doubts, she assumed that someone was supporting Sora. 2) She didn't think that Sora could use magic, she assumed that someone who could use magic was supporting Sora. (quick note: it was Steph, not Kurumi, who assumed that the phone could detect magic). 1. That's why I mentioned several times that her assumption was unwarranted. Again this would be disproved as the game went on. 2. Sora came with Shiro & Steph who also can't use magic. The only other person on that room was the old man, also an imanity who can't use magic. Who could help Sora exactly? Takuan_Soho said: You really are missing the point. Kurumi wasn't thinking "I have to win at all cost", she was thinking "I have to have better magic than Sora has" or i.e. "I have to cheat better than Sora is cheating". She wasn't being "gullible", that was her accepting what she thought to be reality. Which is why I find it weird that she was so fixated on that to forget the most important thing of all, winning. I also stated this on my earlier posts that not dealing with the immediate threat is pure stupidity. If she truly believes she's humanity's savior then she should win at all cost instead of being stubborn like that. What would she have gained from cheating better than Sora? there were literally 3 other people in that room unless her ego is THAT big. If she's afraid that Sora is an agent from another country, the first and most important thing that should be her utmost priority is defeating Sora and not engage in a battle of ego. Takuan_Soho said: And why would she think that Sora wasn't using magic. She couldn't get the pieces to move without magic, that Sora got them to move even more so than she could do wasn't evidence that he couldn't use magic, but rather evidence that he had GREATER magic. This is too far fetched. I don't see the purpose of giving herself such a damaging handicap. Why would she choose this kind of game and not being able to move the pieces herself without magic? that's why I kept reiterating that she was terribly unprepared. She also wasn't surprised when Shiro moved the pieces, in other words she is very much aware that Sora & Shiro can move the pieces without magic. |
May 1, 2014 10:59 PM
#264
You guys are overestimating the intelligence of these other-world humans. There are probably lots of other people besides her that lose sight of their goals (e.g. winning the damn game) due to magic paranoia and ego stroking. If that convenience seems odd to you, then maybe this isn't quite the show for you. |
This topic has not been locked and is still available for discussion. |
May 1, 2014 11:26 PM
#265
May 2, 2014 12:00 AM
#266
I loved this ep, though I didn't like forcing Stephy into going commando in public. It's really drafty going like this with such a short skirt you know... >///< W-Well, anyway, I hope that the rest will be as good as the so far episodes. |
May 2, 2014 12:13 AM
#267
This anime is really beautiful. All the colors and especially when Tet showed up at the end, plus the ost is amazing and fits perfectly, hopefully they'll release an ost down the road! |
May 2, 2014 12:22 AM
#268
opondica said: Helpme said: opondica said: To place it in a real, world context, try the following example: re-watch the show and then replace "humanity" with any racial group or nation from the real world. No, this shows target audience isn't like that. Your sensibilities are too American. What you should replace it with is 'otaku'. See how it makes sense from that perspective? I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to say that replacing "humanity" in the main character's speeches with "otaku" makes him sound like he's talking up the otaku life? If so, I guess I partly agree. Although I think it's common to associate them, NEET and otaku aren't really the same thing, and this show definitely seems rather pro-NEET. First there's the two main characters who are incredibly skilled NEETs who apparently never lose games. Then there's all the discussion, in the context of the current status of humans in the fantasy world, about how being weak is actually a strength. That's a sentiment which one could easily extend to NEETs, a group that it would probably be appropriate to label as 'weak.' So I think it's rather likely at this point that that's what the 'target audience' is taking away from the show, as you said. I don't think any of that gets in the way of the point I was trying to make, though. I may have been unclear as well, but the point I was trying to make is that Sora's speeches about humanity are 'pro-human' in a way that could reasonably be expected to piss off anyone who isn't human. Now whether it's intended that the viewer replace "human" with "otaku" or with something else doesn't really matter to me. It wouldn't matter even if the viewer wasn't intended to view that speech as being about anything other than humanity. What matters is that the way Sora talks about humanity would be annoying to me if I were not a member of the group he was talking about. Because I understand this annoyance I end up annoyed at him even though he is talking about humanity, a group that I am a member of. Maybe it's a little silly to get annoyed at this given that elves and so forth don't really exist. I don't think it is, though. I mean, the way he views humanity doesn't seem that different from the way that a hardcore nationalist views their country, or from the way that someone who says "the NEET life is best, all you non-NEETs suck!" views being a NEET. And of course in the hypothetical and quite possibly unrealistic scenario that humanity does encounter extraterrestrial intelligent life, the attitude he presents, unaltered, will undoubtedly present problems. I'm not really sure how you got "your sensibilities are too American" from what I said, though. Nationalism is pretty popular in America, as far as I can tell. Maybe racism isn't but I'm pretty sure it's unpopular in other countries too. I hear South Africa doesn't particularly like it, for instance. baki502 said: I actually quite like the fact that he is going for world conquest. Id like to see more anime like that, I mean in this anime its pretty harmless since its decided by games, but Id like to see more anime where the MC tries to conquer the world in the real world for example. Weve had enough anime with honorable and good MC, why not have a vew evil MC and have them conquer the world, with all the dirtying your hands involved in it. As for the humans being the weakest part, they always will be the weakest. That ranking isnt decided by the amount of territory they have but by their magical and physical abilities I believe. Since humans arent particularly strong nor can they use any magic at all, they would be considered the weakest even if they owned the whole world. Unless they then changed the rules this ranking is based on. As for myself I also think its pretty overhyped. I mean I enjoy it a lot, but its very much style and no substance. Its not bothering me too much and I am still enjoying it, but the people are overdoing it in singing the show its praises. I don't think I'll ever feel that there are too many honorable and good protagonists, yet I agree that it's nice to see some villainous ones too. I'm not really sure I think this show qualifies, even if the main duo are aiming to conquer the world. They've basically set themselves up as the saviors of humankind in their new universe and it seems like their world conquest is going to be more along the lines of 'beaten and downtrodden people overthrow the evil empire' than 'villain conquers the world.' Obviously I don't really see them as heroes for conquering the world in the name of humanity but so far it seems like the show very well might end up portraying them that way. I guess they 'get their hands dirty' in that there's a whole lot of cheating going on in this world, but it's hardly out of the question for a character who uses extreme means to achieve a goal that the show portrays as good to be portrayed as a noble hero rather than a villain. Well the only thing from what I wish more world conquest anime to be, is that its a world conquest. On all other fronts its lot really. Shiro/Sora are not villanious they are obviously (shining) heros. Mod Edit: Modified quote tower; please spoiler or remove old quotes. |
ZelotMay 5, 2014 7:26 AM
May 2, 2014 12:40 AM
#269
Takuan_Soho said: Sapewloth said: Anyway, good episode, even though I still don't get who killed the King even after reading the 14 freaking pages of discussion. Basically he redefined the rules as he went along, and his narrative belief became reality. That would be a direct violation of metarule 4, no altering rules once agreed. Takuan_Soho said: Remember the pieces did not have "will" on their own, but responded to the "will" of the players. In the anime, it is explicitly stated that they did have a will of their own, and everything shown up to the kings death can be explained with that. |
May 2, 2014 1:25 AM
#270
wow i like this so much it is soo good i cant believe kami sama omg plz what am i doing |
May 2, 2014 1:31 AM
#271
Takuan_Soho said: Mormegil said: This show is wish fulfillment at its finest. Two NEETs find themselves in another world, and end up ruling it. Sure. Cool. No Game no Life is certainly not the only offender. Hell, this season alone has quite a few shows like this. Mekaku City Actors, for one. Guy lives alone in what looks like is a mansion, and seems to have some kind of power. This whole NEET/hikikomori thing is becoming a phenomenon in anime lately, and it's never treated as a serious issue. It's always fun and games when you're a NEET! I can't even remember the last time it was talked about in a serious manner. Space Brothers had one or two episodes, I believe. Even Anohana, for all its melodrama, didn't shy away from the reality of being a NEET. And the masterpiece that is Welcome to the NHK goes without saying... I hope there's some kind of backstory that explains why they became NEETs, but for now the MC is suave and charismatic with a near-genius intellect. He's almost superhuman, actually. They are not "NEETs", they are not Hikokomori, and this is not wish fulfillment. Stop using terms you don't understand. First both of them are too young to be NEETs, Sora is only 18, which means he could still technically be in high school and as such cannot be a NEET (which applies to those who should either be in college or working). Being a NEET is a 20ish term. Second there is no indication that they are Hikikomori. That both have personality disorders was established the first episode, however when they are together there is nothing to indicate that they cannot leave their room if they wanted to. By all indications the reason they stay in their room playing games is because they are bored with reality, not because they are fleeing from reality. Hikikomori is generally another expression for adults, not teenagers. Third, this show is not about wish fulfillment. The Siblings are not losers in the real world, they are super geniuses who are bored with reality, and who have been given a wonderful new toy to play with. Wish fulfillment is about an average person becoming a hero in some alternative world, there was nothing "average" about either character in the real world (unless we believe the average gamer can play 4 characters with his hands and feet) and less so in this fantasy world. While what they do in the real world hasn't been shown, by all indication both have more than enough money to support their decision. Most likely their parents were killed, and Sora promised to take care of Shiro and they are living on their inheritance. That again is not very NEETish, Kikikomori or wish fulfillmentish. Hahahahaha Second there is no indication that they are Hikikomori. Hahahahaha Come on: Please do not state flatout lies, Takuan. Their entire personality is based around selfinsertion and of course they were given awesome skills no normal NEET/irl loser has - it is exactly BECAUSE they want to stroke the ego of their consumers who are supposed to identify with their situation. Just instead of being NEET because of whatever reasons, they are NEET because they are bored with life because they are too good, yadda, yadda, blah blah. It doesn't take much to figure that out because this is how most works of this specific kind of fiction work. And yes, wasting their inheritance with playing games instead of working for the good of his sister (or getting a fucking therapy to get rid of their obvious personality flaws and mental illnesses) is pretty damn NEET. Mod Edit: Modified quote tower; please spoiler or remove old quotes. |
ZelotMay 5, 2014 7:28 AM
Steel Ball Run anime when? |
May 2, 2014 1:33 AM
#272
SetsukoHara said: Z4k said: 7thVoid said: Z4k said: That was a really decent episode. Not sure why some people are still complaining about it. Not complaining, just a heated discussion of differing opinions on certain matters. I myself found it to be decent at the very least. No my post wasn't aimed specifically towards you. SetsukoHara said: Z4k said: That was a really decent episode. Not sure why some people are still complaining about it. Because they thought it was bad and not decent. For some people, it is hard to praise an anime where a hikikomori is able to effectively deliver a speech in front of thousands of people just because his sister hold his hand. Overhyped and overrated so far! Are you sure we're watching the same anime? Because there's a huge fucking difference between a person who's "NEET" and "hikikomori". MAL synopsis said: The story of No Game, No Life centers around Sora and Shiro, a brother and sister whose reputations as brilliant NEET (Not in Education, Employment, or Training) hikikomori (shut-in) gamers have spawned urban legends all over the Internet. Wikipedia said: Siblings Sora and Shiro are a pair of hikikomori NEETs who together form 『 』 Please check the name of the anime you're watching before posting, because it seems you're in the wrong thread. lmao did you even watch the first episode? It clearly said shiro is the shut in and sora is a "NEET" Mod Edit: Modified quote tower; please spoiler or remove old quotes. |
ZelotMay 5, 2014 7:27 AM
May 2, 2014 2:09 AM
#273
Helpme said: In the anime, it is explicitly stated that they did have a will of their own, and everything shown up to the kings death can be explained with that. That's true. What do you get, when you give the chess pieces their own will? A real time strategy game. The pieces can follow the rules of a chess game, but they don't have to. That's what Sora realized and took fully advantage of. |
May 2, 2014 2:14 AM
#274
Z4k said: snip She doesn't go to school. Which means she is not in education. The only thing that technically prevents her from being categorized as a NEET (Not in EDUCATION, Employment or Training) is her age (11), which doesn't match the target demographic of the NEET classification in Japan (people from 16 to 34 years old) . Shiro and Sora are both shut in (hikkikomori) and NEETs. |
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
May 2, 2014 2:19 AM
#275
Goosebumps ! I really love this episode XD So strong ! The feelings of the speech really touches my heart. This is freaking awesome !!!! |
- barely alive - |
May 2, 2014 3:44 AM
#276
I think this show is way above average and Shiro is moe queen and all, but just to be a tad objective here, does wisdom, psychological manipulation and under-handed plays not exist in the world before the two protags got dragged into it? The entire world has been working based only on who is physically or technologically stronger? This sounds alot like the other races are dumb like animals irl and imanity are the only ones who know how to use their brains. Also, I found the "weaker beats stronger" talk inspirational, but overall lacking in thought. In real life, strong parties/countries/races are usually also smarter and much more skilled at manipulating others, not just physically stronger or are better at magic (which I interpret as superior technology). Especially in the case where magic is possible to be beaten by such mind games, why would magic(or strength) have been on top of the world for 204 generations of kings? Surely some of them MUST have thought of using their heads? If Shiro and Sora are the only two humans with this capability, then doesn't this make them "not imanity" anymore? I mean, they DID fall out of the sky and stuff so they weren't bred and born from imanity. Physical likeness doesn't really tell you anything about whether the people in imanity are actually the same thing as what Sora calles "humanity". |
newnarMay 2, 2014 3:51 AM
May 2, 2014 5:56 AM
#277
idk why the anime didn't mention it in the introduction episodes, but sora and shiro are not related by blood |
May 2, 2014 6:36 AM
#278
May 2, 2014 6:38 AM
#279
jiraiya_sensei said: Takuan_Soho said: No, you just come from a culture that allows you the delusion of ego. Kurumi didn't have that luxury. Put yourself in her shoes: all her life humanity has lost because the other races cheated, she didn't have the illusion that she could win without magic because no one had ever won without magic. That negative thinking, as Sora said to both her and Steph, helped promote their losing. That would bring me back to my other point that the Imanity in this series has very low IQ because it doesn't seem to take much brain power to defeat magic, just some bravado and guile (I stated this in earlier pages). Sora & Shiro can't be the first trickster to appear in that world? There are so many ways to cheat without using magic, surely someone would have thought about it and won against magic at least once? It's just a very "convenient" setting that the entire race was cowardly and dumb. Takuan_Soho said: Two things wrong with that statement: 1) Kurumi never had doubts, she assumed that someone was supporting Sora. 2) She didn't think that Sora could use magic, she assumed that someone who could use magic was supporting Sora. (quick note: it was Steph, not Kurumi, who assumed that the phone could detect magic). 1. That's why I mentioned several times that her assumption was unwarranted. Again this would be disproved as the game went on. 2. Sora came with Shiro & Steph who also can't use magic. The only other person on that room was the old man, also an imanity who can't use magic. Who could help Sora exactly? Takuan_Soho said: You really are missing the point. Kurumi wasn't thinking "I have to win at all cost", she was thinking "I have to have better magic than Sora has" or i.e. "I have to cheat better than Sora is cheating". She wasn't being "gullible", that was her accepting what she thought to be reality. Which is why I find it weird that she was so fixated on that to forget the most important thing of all, winning. I also stated this on my earlier posts that not dealing with the immediate threat is pure stupidity. If she truly believes she's humanity's savior then she should win at all cost instead of being stubborn like that. What would she have gained from cheating better than Sora? there were literally 3 other people in that room unless her ego is THAT big. If she's afraid that Sora is an agent from another country, the first and most important thing that should be her utmost priority is defeating Sora and not engage in a battle of ego. Takuan_Soho said: And why would she think that Sora wasn't using magic. She couldn't get the pieces to move without magic, that Sora got them to move even more so than she could do wasn't evidence that he couldn't use magic, but rather evidence that he had GREATER magic. This is too far fetched. I don't see the purpose of giving herself such a damaging handicap. Why would she choose this kind of game and not being able to move the pieces herself without magic? that's why I kept reiterating that she was terribly unprepared. She also wasn't surprised when Shiro moved the pieces, in other words she is very much aware that Sora & Shiro can move the pieces without magic. You're making a few mistakes here, the first, and biggest one being, that you are looking at the anime from a modern standpoint, without actually immersing yourself. (like trying to tell the temperature of water with a wood stick) If you bothered to get a bit more into it, you'd realize, that the people, who you say have low intellect are pretty avarage. For their time that is. (Estimated around the early renaissance) Also, "surely there is someone who"... That kind of thinking is what gets called wishful thinking. Her assumption, that Sora was backed WAS warranted by him having foiled her initial cheats in the poker games. All the while [ ] was acting out the dumb human, flaunting the device "granted to them by a foreign power" (after all, noone really knows there, what phones are) And humans can use magic-fueled devices. They could use a wand for example (or anything really) They of themselves, however can't use magic itself, lacking the connection to the world's magic (or however it was said properly... Too lazy to reread that part) And on your final point, have you ever thought something right, but were proven wrong? That's what happened to Kurami basically. The characters (well, most of them anyways) are not without their flaws, and if you think about it, getting baboozled into thinking, that her opponents WILL thwart her cheat, and WILL use cheats of their own. (Again, humans CAN use magic devices) baki502 said: Well the only thing from what I wish more world conquest anime to be, is that its a world conquest. On all other fronts its lot really. Shiro/Sora are not villanious they are obviously (shining) heros. FYI, for the German people, Hitler was a shining hero. Tsundere_Louise said: I loved this ep, though I didn't like forcing Stephy into going commando in public. It's really drafty going like this with such a short skirt you know... >///< [douchebag] Pics, or it never happened! [/douchebag] Mod Edit: Modified quote tower; please spoiler or remove old quotes. |
ZelotMay 5, 2014 7:25 AM
May 2, 2014 8:17 AM
#280
Douglas24 said: That speech was awesome. i can confidently say that Sora is a badass. His speech was great! It made my spine shiver... watched it 7+ times already. |
May 2, 2014 9:15 AM
#281
That was a nice flashback with Steph and her grandfather and she acknowleges the siblings too. Glad that they included Sora's dialogue (which was necessary anyways) "Sorry. Our world isn't as nice a place as yours." :D Kurami's is becoming more annoying with each episode but her crying so much was lol. Oh Shiro was so kawaii when she said Sora will build his harem and won't need her anymore. They were playing for 3 days straight! O_o 158 losses 158 wins and 184 ties? I Lol'd. And the lifetime scores were just pure hilarious. XDXD It's amazing that the representative and Steph were still inside their room. Took them long to realise that. XD Dat Steph outfit. Hot *A* Sora's speech was so awesome! It kinda add up to the consistent hype for future events. And he has declared war against the other countries too. So friggin BA. Ah. Tet/kami-sama's scene was modified a little but glad they included Steph's surprised reaction. And with this, they have finished adapting Volume 1. I'll have to start reading Volume 2 now. I wonder what was with the next episode preview? XD |
May 2, 2014 9:17 AM
#282
Looks like things are starting to happen, let's see what happens next. |
Part of Refrain Subs for Little Busters!: Refrain Recently Played/Read VNS (Most Recent to Oldest): - Da Capo - Grisaia no Kajitsu - ef - a fairy tale of the two - G-senjou no Maou - Sharin no Kuni, Himawari no Shoujo & Sharin no Kuni, Yuukyuu no Shounenshoujo (Fan Disk) - Rewrite - Hoshizora no Memoria -Wish upon a shooting star- - Clannad - Little Busters EX! |
May 2, 2014 9:26 AM
#283
amc9988 said: idk why the anime didn't mention it in the introduction episodes, but sora and shiro are not related by blood It's probably supposed to be revealed later on. In which case you just spoiled hundreds of fans, you heartless monster. jk. Doesn't seem like something that important to me anyway. Oh yeah, something about the episode should be mentioned as well, shouldn't it. It was cool; the speech, that is. The conclusion to the chess game and the game itself were garbage. |
The release of atomic energy has not created a new problem. It has merely made more urgent the necessity of solving an existing one. - Albert Einstein |
May 2, 2014 11:21 AM
#284
Dat chess game. A third faction? Lolwut. Still confused on how they pulled the win though. Sora was talking about assassination, but they didn't do anything... I'm surprised Sora was able to pull off that speech, being a NEET and all. And he even included a declaration of war. So Tet brought Blank here just to beat their asses. Lol, guess he's a bit of a sore loser. Though what happens when Sora and Shiro reach the pinnacle? There would be no more opponents left. |
May 2, 2014 11:38 AM
#285
ChronosXIII said: Implying that it will be shown, since the novel is still ongoing, so my guess is either they will break in some good place, or they will make an anime original ending, which wouldn't be a wise idea for the fans.So Tet brought Blank here just to beat their asses. Lol, guess he's a bit of a sore loser. Though what happens when Sora and Shiro reach the pinnacle? There would be no more opponents left. |
May 2, 2014 11:39 AM
#286
ChronosXIII said: There would be no more opponents left. They bring a leet NEET player from Earth to their world so they would have a challenge. And so the cycle continues... |
May 2, 2014 12:27 PM
#287
GreenDrag said: baki502 said: Well the only thing from what I wish more world conquest anime to be, is that its a world conquest. On all other fronts its lot really. Shiro/Sora are not villanious they are obviously (shining) heros. FYI, for the German people, Hitler was a shining hero. Except that Hitler was fighting other human beings. Shiro/Sora is not, what they are fighting is not human, so human rights dont apply. Thats why its okay to brutally massacre them, pillage their villages and slit the pregnant womens bellys open. Cause they aint human. Without joking tough, you cant be considered villanous if youre in a world where everything is decided by games. World conquest isnt actually an evil thing, its the way you go about it that makes it evil. If your only way is games where no blood is spillt you can hardly be considered evil. |
May 2, 2014 12:42 PM
#288
Shiro = Loli of The Year. Great episode, amazing speech by Sora. |
My DeviantArt and Pixiv and still waiting patiently for a 3rd season of Spice & Wolf :'| |
May 2, 2014 1:27 PM
#289
baki502 said: Except that Hitler was fighting other human beings. Shiro/Sora is not, what they are fighting is not human, so human rights dont apply. Thats why its okay to brutally massacre them, pillage their villages and slit the pregnant womens bellys open. Cause they aint human. Without joking tough, you cant be considered villanous if youre in a world where everything is decided by games. World conquest isnt actually an evil thing, its the way you go about it that makes it evil. If your only way is games where no blood is spillt you can hardly be considered evil. Actually, around the end of the second volume in the novels, it is explainced, that conquest for territory is percieved as a relatively evil act, simply because people will lose their homes, their food supplies taken, and so on. And thanks to that, destruction through attrition comes into play. (Of course Sora and Shiro just scoff at their silly ideals, but that's a different story) Tsundere_Louise said: GreenDrag said: P-Pics for what, b-baka?[douchebag] Pics, or it never happened! [/douchebag] Pics of you going commando! Or it NEVER happened [/niceguytryingtoactlikeadouchebag] dirtyuncle said: ChronosXIII said: There would be no more opponents left. They bring a leet NEET player from Earth to their world so they would have a challenge. And so the cycle continues... Sora and Shiro are the top of the world with a HUGE lead. So I doubt that would happen. But then again, they become gods by then, why try to top it off more and more? |
May 2, 2014 1:53 PM
#290
GreenDrag said: If you bothered to get a bit more into it, you'd realize, that the people, who you say have low intellect are pretty avarage. For their time that is. (Estimated around the early renaissance) Also, "surely there is someone who"... That kind of thinking is what gets called wishful thinking. Wishful thinking eh...For every oppressed group there will ALWAYS be several outstanding individuals who stood up against the oppressor (it's a figure of speech, in terms of NGNL it's inferior race against stronger race). The evidences are plenty throughout history. In the history of my country, our predecessors, armed only with sharp poles & makeshift weapons, fought against our oppressors who were armed with guns and cannons. Sure we lost a lot of wars but we also killed enough of them for them to finally leave us alone. Another example would be how the North Vietnamese defeated the Americans despite fighting with far inferior weapons. If there was truly no one from the imanity ever defeated magic users, it simply proved my point that the imanity was purposely made to be an impossibly incompetent race that not one of them had the capabilities for simple trickery or even have the bravado to challenge the stronger races. And for your 2nd paragraph, I replied enough on the previous pages that I'm lazy to type again here. There are also conflicting accounts since some people said it was Steph, not Kurami who thought that the camera [ ] was holding had magic power, not that it really matters. If tl;dr then I'll just say that Kurami's fixation towards Sora cheating/using magic was too unnatural as common sense dictates that she still needs to consider the possibility that her assumptions are wrong. Normally our thought process in daily life rarely do this but this is a special circumstances in that she was going to "war" to decide the fate of her plan, it's only natural to consider every possibilities (that Sora was bluffing all along, had no backing, and can't use magic). If you say that she lacks the knowledge/experience about war tactic then why even choose that game in the first place? |
MoeGodMay 2, 2014 2:01 PM
May 2, 2014 2:15 PM
#291
#rekt Seriously, that girl lost in such an humiliating way, getting killed by your own people :P Will the weak rise? I'm pretty sure of it, but I'm not sure if they'll be able to defeat the God twice. |
«Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.» - Kurisu Makise a.k.a. The Zombie |
May 2, 2014 2:40 PM
#292
jiraiya_sensei said: GreenDrag said: If you bothered to get a bit more into it, you'd realize, that the people, who you say have low intellect are pretty avarage. For their time that is. (Estimated around the early renaissance) Also, "surely there is someone who"... That kind of thinking is what gets called wishful thinking. Wishful thinking eh...For every oppressed group there will ALWAYS be several outstanding individuals who stood up against the oppressor (it's a figure of speech, in terms of NGNL it's inferior race against stronger race). The evidences are plenty throughout history. In the history of my country, our predecessors, armed only with sharp poles & makeshift weapons, fought against our oppressors who were armed with guns and cannons. Sure we lost a lot of wars but we also killed enough of them for them to finally leave us alone. Another example would be how the North Vietnamese defeated the Americans despite fighting with far inferior weapons. If there was truly no one from the imanity ever defeated magic users, it simply proved my point that the imanity was purposely made to be an impossibly incompetent race that not one of them had the capabilities for simple trickery or even have the bravado to challenge the stronger races. And for your 2nd paragraph, I replied enough on the previous pages that I'm lazy to type again here. There are also conflicting accounts since some people said it was Steph, not Kurami who thought that the camera [ ] was holding had magic power, not that it really matters. If tl;dr then I'll just say that Kurami's fixation towards Sora cheating/using magic was too unnatural as common sense dictates that she still needs to consider the possibility that her assumptions are wrong. Normally our thought process in daily life rarely do this but this is a special circumstances in that she was going to "war" to decide the fate of her plan, it's only natural to consider every possibilities (that Sora was bluffing all along, had no backing, and can't use magic). If you say that she lacks the knowledge/experience about war tactic then why even choose that game in the first place? I get what you mean, after all, mine (not mine as in a country controlled by me... sadly :< ) is the only country that ever broke free from Soviet subjugation during the cold war (alas only for about a week), but the slaves in Rome never rebelled (no, the Spartachus rebellion was NOT a slave rebellion. It was a rebellion started by the gladiators, who had a rather high standing, compared to regular slaves (though I might have to check my facts on that one)) Also, people who played around magic did appear, but they were few and far between for Imanity to stand a legitimate chance. spoilerish warning (for example, the previous king, Steph's grandfather, played around several tricks of other, magically more adept nations. THIS ONE SPOILER MIGHT ACTUALLY MAKE YOU ENJOY THE THING LESS {no, not you jiraiya, but anyone else reading this} He kept on losing though, and thus was considered a fool, but as later (actually, in like 2-3 eps) revealed, he cracked several weaknesses in the werebeast's game, and gaming abilities (namely how they actually CAN'T read minds), and decided, that rather than himself, he'd set up the scene for the next ruler, who he bet on being the "best human gambler", as they said it. And what you might not get, is that it's likelier, that Imanity lost more territory during attacks, than defence. Also, Kurami is not as calculating as you think she is. And from the scene, where Feel is enchanting the chess pieces, it's obvious, that while they calculated foreign powers into their plan, they didn't prepare for that outright, thus the game itself was makeshift. (At least in the anime, in the novel, it is implied, that she whored herself out to get something with more subtle cheats from her elven supporter, who was actually a guy there...) And she chose CHESS, where the pieces moved in her favor, rather than a war game. She simply didn't weigh in, that giving the pieces will is more than a simple way to hide her cheating. And as I've said it countless times, war is a long, long forgotten thing in that world. things such as tactics were replaced with gaming tactics, and clever ways to cheat (which she does not have, as proven by her relying on elven magic). |
May 2, 2014 2:53 PM
#293
Cheesekao said: Holy crap those last few minutes are gonna burn someone's retinas. Only 2 more weeks until best girl arrives. Shiro is best girl |
May 2, 2014 2:54 PM
#294
jiraiya_sensei said: Wishful thinking eh...For every oppressed group there will ALWAYS be several outstanding individuals who stood up against the oppressor (it's a figure of speech, in terms of NGNL it's inferior race against stronger race). The evidences are plenty throughout history. In the history of my country, our predecessors, armed only with sharp poles & makeshift weapons, fought against our oppressors who were armed with guns and cannons. Sure we lost a lot of wars but we also killed enough of them for them to finally leave us alone. Another example would be how the North Vietnamese defeated the Americans despite fighting with far inferior weapons. If there was truly no one from the imanity ever defeated magic users, it simply proved my point that the imanity was purposely made to be an impossibly incompetent race that not one of them had the capabilities for simple trickery or even have the bravado to challenge the stronger races. You are forgetting that Imanity is stuck in the Middle Ages, at that time it wasn't even common to know how to read books so intellectuals were incredibly rare. By irony most of those intellectuals were hunted for their world view, but that's not part of the point. Why do you think Immanuel Kant even 600 years later still had to say that people were immature with immatury being: Immaturity is the incapacity to use one's intelligence without the guidance of another. Also not all people are dumb, e. g. the former king, Steph's grandfather, was far more intelligent as all the people of Imanity give him credit for; but why so would be a big spoiler that will be explained in the next episodes so I will refrain from explaining that. EDIT: And that happens when one takes too long for replying...incredibly nathed by GreenDrag about my last paragraph xD |
Caleb8980May 2, 2014 3:12 PM
May 2, 2014 3:07 PM
#295
Thread cleaned of some spam and derailing posts. Don't stray too far off the episode discussion, guys. Not like I have any idea what you guys are talking about anyway... |
May 2, 2014 3:22 PM
#296
GreenDrag said: A-As I would show anything like that, B-BAKA!!! I'm a noble. I would never show myself doing such a humiliating thing.Pics of you going commando! Or it NEVER happened [/niceguytryingtoactlikeadouchebag] |
May 2, 2014 3:52 PM
#297
Tsundere_Louise said: GreenDrag said: A-As I would show anything like that, B-BAKA!!! I'm a noble. I would never show myself doing such a humiliating thing.Pics of you going commando! Or it NEVER happened [/niceguytryingtoactlikeadouchebag] And with that, you missed your last chance to completely deny it ever happening... And I tried so hard with the assist... Caleb8980 said: EDIT: And that happens when one takes too long for replying...incredibly nathed by GreenDrag about my last paragraph xD That happens to me too. Whenever I try to think everything through, or go as far as reread the source material, or rewatch certain points of the anime, I take almost half an hour... in that time, a more heated discussion goes pages, and sometimes my point becomes irrelevant... that is why I try to stick to commenting in the first 10 minutes, then only days later, when only truly worthy, not yet resolved discussions remain. And yeah, Imanity being as developed as people in the middle ages (the highest estimate being early renaissance) is a point I keep repeating like no tomorrow. Literacy rates are low, and Steph, despite being as dumb as hell by today's standards, is actually a college graduate (hell, she was top of her class, if I recall correctly), and is fairly well educated in topics regarding politics (she was trained to be a queen after all) |
May 2, 2014 4:38 PM
#298
Tet is the cutest little thing~ Ah I want to smoosh him XD His laugh is so cute! (I assume it's a him or genderless...?) I nearly died that they played Old Maid for three days XD omg! I knew they'd just end up ruling together, though (the opening and all...) The girl just started bawling XD It was cute. I love this show too much :'D If only they'd tame the bright colors down just a touch. I like bright colors but wow X_x' |
May 2, 2014 5:44 PM
#299
hm … now the whole show turns into an awesome game. interesting. but 12 eps are prty short for that. now i hope they produce a second season, but i hope not for summer. would be a perfect show for fall i think. ^^ and the soundtracks are awesome! i think, i uprate this showfrom a solid 0,9 into a 0,93 for now. the next eps will show, whether it can jump over the 0,95 mark. but for that i need more interesting games and trouble with the other races. |
May 2, 2014 6:43 PM
#300
Tsundere_Louise said: GreenDrag said: It DIDN'T HAPPEN, BAKA! Stop saying about that and get back on the episode topic. >///<And with that, you missed your last chance to completely deny it ever happening... And I tried so hard with the assist... Fine, fine, I get it, Tsundere_Commando... summerwars said: hm … now the whole show turns into an awesome game. interesting. but 12 eps are prty short for that. now i hope they produce a second season, but i hope not for summer. would be a perfect show for fall i think. ^^ and the soundtracks are awesome! i think, i uprate this showfrom a solid 0,9 into a 0,93 for now. the next eps will show, whether it can jump over the 0,95 mark. but for that i need more interesting games and trouble with the other races. SPOILER ALERT; While the following spoilers are not major story spoilers, they will betray some of the pacing of the show, of which prior knowledge might decrease enjoyability If they are following this same pace, and the novel, then there won't be too much trouble with the other races. The elves will show up for a short while again, and the werebeasts will get their game, but that's about it. Now the games themselves, however... They, in my opinion just keep getting better. The game with Jibril should pretty much top off this episode's game, whilst the game leading to the Fake End is a real treat, if you either like mysteries, or mindgames. |
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