Carole & Tuesday Episode 2 Discussion

Boltz said:


Probably just a hell of a lot of hand drawn animation. I have no idea how they made Tue's hair movement look so good though, it's crazy! Some motions almost look like they're rotoscoped, but they're too smooth.

matias067 said:
wow! impressive! this is more than just a hidden gem!
netflix really know their stuff! although a lot still criticize them for various reason...y'know...
the uploaded video wasn't even viral and now they have a potential Manager! nice!
5/5!

-Rogue said:

The animation was great, and I hope they are able to keep the same quality for the rest of the series.

EGOIST said:
I just dislike how obvious that the characters VA changes are as they sing! I can't just seem to stop noticing it

FredFriendly said:


I don't know why people are so upset about this. Maybe because they sing in a English instead of Japanese. Lots of singers talking voices sound nothing like their singing voices, yet you don't hear people complaining about that. As for Celeina Ann, Tuesday's singer, her native language actually appears to be Japanese as she was born and lives in Tokyo. If you watch the "Carole & Tuesday Story of a Miracle" videos, you can see that Ann is as fluent in Japanese as the VAs. I doubt very much that she would consider herself anything other than Japanese seeing that her own website is in Japanese. If she were singing in Japanese, you probably wouldn't even realize she was a different person from the VA.
__________________

For now, this series makes an easy watching, but I couldn't care less (not talking about the characters like MALers, but the series). I am watching because:
- it's Watanabe,
- it's well animated,
- it's rather solid,
- it's pleasant to follow.
But I'm not watching because I'm interested

JizzyHitler said:
Its hard confirmed to be 24 episodes, supposedly the first half is them rising to fame and the 2nd half is post success, but i dont recall where I read that so take it with a grain of salt but ive seen others mention this too. That kind of explains the fast almost rushed pacing.

Mythologically said:
Don't think I've cringed this much since those two volumes of Watamote I read a couple of weeks ago.

Mythologically said:


I find the characters, so far, to be unrelatable walking stereotypes, so the whole drama aspect with the song at the end induced nothing but cringe. I just don't see why the show is trying to make me feel emotional when I've known these characters for like 30 minutes. The whole thing with the song randomly going viral in a day just added on to this.

Mythologically said:


Wym lol. An emotional song took up like a sixth of the episode after the whole episode built up to it. This is also a drama show. What other purpose can it possibly have besides for trying to make the viewer feel emotional?

BRK25 said:


The show is a drama but find it hard to establish anything noteworthy in two episodes with two strangers living together. The song wouldn't be emotional. Something emotional that would be a great comparison was Angel beats when the woman played on the acoustic guitar before she vanished and moved on. That's emotional.


If anything, the sight of Carol reliving her orphanage days is more emotional than the song. It was a fun moment for those two, not an emotional

Also, we don't know how accessible social media is in mars in their timeline, or how many followers the assistant engineer has. Not to mention that if everyone is used to music done without a human soul as noted earlier in the episode, what if this is the first time in years music with soul was made and it is exactly why it went viral?

Mythologically said:


I find the characters, so far, to be unrelatable walking stereotypes, so the whole drama aspect with the song at the end induced nothing but cringe. I just don't see why the show is trying to make me feel emotional when I've known these characters for like 30 minutes. The whole thing with the song randomly going viral in a day just added on to this.

Mythologically said:


Now you're just reaching for bullshit lol. I don't care about the process as to how it got viral. The fact that the guy who is randomly recording their show is supposedly famous is a plot convenience, not a contrivance. Those are different things. I find the fact that something this convenient for the plot just randomly happened annoying. I don't care about the process of how it became viral, I care about the end result, and I find the end result cringy. There is nothing logically wrong with that.

How advanced their world is doesn't matter. We are literally presented with a slideshow of everyone and their mother watching their performance. Are you implying that the advanced technology on Mars allows any video to become viral? I'm extremely confused as to how you're linking "advanced Martian technology" to "video randomly has 2 million views in a day". Is every video that's ever uploaded to the in-universe version of YouTube getting 2 million views in a day? Like I'm just extremely confused here. To further expand on this, the real YouTube currently has about 1.9 billion users that are active monthly. I don't really see that many random videos getting 2 million views in a day. It's unrealistic.

Your previous point of "maybe it's because the music was composed by a human and not an AI" doesn't make sense to me either. How would the people watching the video know this? Why would they care?

Anyway, this whole discussion is pointless because this is an irrelevant plot point. The other part of the discussion, the emotionality of the song, is completely subjective, so there's not much point to discussing that either. Neither of those is even my main problem with the show. I'm mainly disliking it so far because Tuesday is the epitome of a generic sheltered girl, and Carole is a complete Mary Sue.

Mythologically said:
...I don't really see that many random videos getting 2 million views in a day. It's unrealistic....

Mythologically said:


Now you're just reaching for bullshit lol. I don't care about the process as to how it got viral. The fact that the guy who is randomly recording their show is supposedly famous is a plot convenience, not a contrivance. Those are different things. I find the fact that something this convenient for the plot just randomly happened annoying. I don't care about the process of how it became viral, I care about the end result, and I find the end result cringy. There is nothing logically wrong with that.

How advanced their world is doesn't matter. We are literally presented with a slideshow of everyone and their mother watching their performance. Are you implying that the advanced technology on Mars allows any video to become viral? I'm extremely confused as to how you're linking "advanced Martian technology" to "video randomly has 2 million views in a day". Is every video that's ever uploaded to the in-universe version of YouTube getting 2 million views in a day? Like I'm just extremely confused here. To further expand on this, the real YouTube currently has about 1.9 billion users that are active monthly. I don't really see that many random videos getting 2 million views in a day. It's unrealistic.

Your previous point of "maybe it's because the music was composed by a human and not an AI" doesn't make sense to me either. How would the people watching the video know this? Why would they care?

Anyway, this whole discussion is pointless because this is an irrelevant plot point. The other part of the discussion, the emotionality of the song, is completely subjective, so there's not much point to discussing that either. Neither of those is even my main problem with the show. I'm mainly disliking it so far because Tuesday is the epitome of a generic sheltered girl, and Carole is a complete Mary Sue.

TheUnknownKnown said:


How would you characterize them if you were the writer?

Mythologically said:


So overall, what we've established here, is that once again the bullshit makes sense because of a combination of the Sci-Fi element and a plot convenience. Also, as I stated before, the guy that is randomly recording them being famous is a plot convenience. That's my biggest issue here.

I also don't see why it matters how fast something spreads; we are given a slideshow of literally every human being ever watching their video. Do they also have infinite time to watch videos with? Clearly, this video is much more viral than nearly any other, which is why the technology argument doesn't make sense to me whatsoever. Roddy being famous makes sense, though. Roddy being famous is a plot convenience, and is annoying.

And you're right! It is early to judge a show. That's why I said so far. So far, the characters have shown me nothing interesting. If they actually develop into something other than blank slate stereotypes, I'll enjoy the show! That's why this is a discussion for episode 2. It's a place to give your opinions on the show through episode 2.

It's amazing that you can get defensive enough to take the attitude of "I liked it, how could you possibly dislike it, you have no evidence !!". Tuesday is a generic sheltered girl whose whole character so far is that she can't take care of herself but wants to pursue an interest that her family seemingly won't allow (I'm assuming that's the reason she ran away). Carole is a literal Mary Sue. Someone fucks with her at her burger joint job? She epicly annihilates those libtards Ben Shapiro style. Some random kid grabs an apple from a fruit stand? Agent of Justice Carole is here to save the day! Does she have to fake cry for a part-time job? She's too amazing to degrade herself like that. Not only that, but she's perfectly capable of performing any possible household duty, is extremely street-smart, and just takes Tuesday into her home after barely knowing her. Once again, so far, I have absolutely nothing interesting to work with.

Also, my "dismissive tone" has only been directed at people intelligent enough to respond to a sentence such as "I don't really see that many random videos getting 2 million views in a day" by citing movie trailers and fucking BTS songs. I tend to be very confrontational, but I feel that I gave the guy that originally responded to me a fairly respectful answer; that overall conversation was easily the best one I had in this thread. I also had a decent, respectful conversation with a guy who commented about this topic on my profile. You'll notice that neither of them tried to stuff complete bullshit down my throat, like "wym unrealistic haha movie trailer 4Head" or "haha how would you write the characters yourself lol".

Mythologically said:


I find the characters, so far, to be unrelatable walking stereotypes, so the whole drama aspect with the song at the end induced nothing but cringe. I just don't see why the show is trying to make me feel emotional when I've known these characters for like 30 minutes. The whole thing with the song randomly going viral in a day just added on to this.

Natsuaki said:


While I don't like the word cringe used like this, I agree with the notion. It's a nice looking show, but so far it feels fairly generic.
All details that all just emphasize how special the two main girls are and how perfect of a match they are are almost getting a little obnoxious.
We don't see them putting any effort into training and improving their skills or them getting to work on a partnership with ups and lows - other than the scene in episode one when they were "tuning" to match the other, that was really cute - and see them acquire not just a million views, but a million likes. Within that short time seems way to unreasonable.
I mean, I'm aware this show isn't aiming at an Underdogs-working-their-way-up-with-talent-and-passion-trope many music shows like this follow, the first episode was pretty explicit about that, but it still feels unearned.
And it feels frustrating in a season with a show like Sarazanmai, a show that really feels fresh and engaging, if a lot less comprehensible, yet this is where everyone's eyes are.

BRK25 said:


And on that note, I completely understand this, and honestly agree. Watanabe has always been a guy who focused on style over substance and a huge focus on music that sometimes, the characters take a back seat. The world is vibrant, the music is varied, and there's 22 episode to go, but I doubt these characters are going to stick in our heads until episode 7 or 8 when they start performing and doing some ups and downs, practice writing lyrics and working on the melody will help create a moment.

Mythologically said:
@BRK25

Can you stop ignoring the fact that Roddy physically manifesting himself in the music hall is not in any way explained by your stupid shit about social media and technology? Thanks. Once again, you've ignored this, what, 4 times now? My problem is that he physically exists in the music hall at the same time that they are performing.

If Mary Sue does not fit the exact definition, how about paragon of virtue? Is that better? Her getting fired from every job is not a flaw. She literally chooses to get fired from them, as in the previous burger example where she decides that being an epic gamer is more important than keeping her job.

When I made my one sentence post about finding the show cringy, I had no other purpose other than what the fucking thread is for: sharing your opinion of the show. I didn't come here to have an argument, neither did I come here to explain why I dislike the show. I also didn't come here to "offer insight on what I would like in an anime". If I wanted to do that, I'd wait for episode 6 and write a review like a normal human. That's why reviews exist. You seem to have completely missed the whole purpose of my single sentence that I typed in 3 seconds that somehow started all of this.

Also, no. I can identify that a character is a literal stereotype without having to be able to write a good character. Simple.

Natsuaki said:


Generally I'm not opposed to style over substance shows, I really enjoyed Space Dandy and absolutely loved Cowboy Bebop. But there has to be something I can gravitate towards. And in this case, neither this idea of the future neither the characters really do that for me.
I like the music, just not quite enough for it to cause an emotional response.
I have to ask though if you happen to know; What exactly was his involvement regarding the characters in Bebop? That show has one of the most charming recognizable casts in the history of Anime.
It's interesting too because going through his MAL page, I've had that exact problem with some other shows he was involved in, like Michiko to Hatchin and Zankyou no Terror.
Both shows I think have strong presentation and style but really weak characters and in Zankyou's case kind of a messy script as well.


Edit: didn't mean to imply Bebop had little substance, far from it. But it also has a ton of style.

BRK25 said:


To me, Watanabe is a fantastic director and knows how to make scenes have impact. I haven't watched Michiko despite knowing he worked on it, but did love Zankyou no Terror. I'll be honest, those characters were pretty shit and had little going for them, but the scenes they were involved in alongside the music still holds dear to my heart and something I'll get nostalgic listening to. And this is the problem I have with him sometimes.

Watanabe had Bebop and while he was working on these thoughts and scenes and cool moments, he was reigned in by Keiko Nobumoto who was considered the head of the script at the time. There are other screenwriters, notably Sadayuki Murai who worked on Perfect Blue's script. I can never be disappointed by the spectacle but if it wasn't for these writers going to work, and bringing Watanabe the idea of these characters problems or history, I doubt it would be as memorable. I'm sure those characters are in his head, but someone else came to fill int he gap from said cool moments.

Luckily, it seems the other director in this worked on Beck and the other writer happens to be heavily involved in drama screenwriting for live-action. There's a lot of evidence here to hint this won't be a disaster like Zankyou, but again, who knows what Watanabe will do for the sake of cool.

Mythologically said:





First quote: "the dude that is there has millions of followers -> plot convenience"
Second quote: "the dude that is there is famous -> plot convenience"
Third quote: "there's a random famous person recording them -> plot convenience"
Fourth quote: "famous person being in the music hall -> plot convenience"

@BRK25 Please explain to me how these are not the same exact point. Every single time I've addressed the issue of the video becoming viral, I have indicated that my biggest problem is the random coincidence of him being in the music hall, or them breaking into the music hall while he is in there, or whatever way you want to phrase it. It's the same thing. His presence there is a plot convenience, which is my biggest issue with the whole thing. I have repeated this 5 times now.

Natsuaki said:


What I really liked about Zankyou no Terror was the atmosphere and mood along with a few really strong moments. I agree that the music was fantastic as well.
It's just where it ultimately went with the story and what it did with its characters to get there after a particularly strong and engaging first two episodes I was left disappointed with. Kind of reminds me of B The Beginning of all things.
And now that I think about it, just like Carole, Zankyou kind of also had the issue of setting up everything for a really big story told with pathos with characters too weak to carry it (although the script was weak as well in that case).

Mh, maybe Watanabe is one of those people who needs the right people to work with to put his strengths to good use? Kind of like how Tite Kubo is also said to be good at portraying really cool moents and imagery and just not that great at or even interested in telling a good story around that.
I kind of have a fascination for people with a savant talent like that.

Hm, I don't think it will be as much of a downfall as Zankyou was, but it didn't have as interesting of an opening to begin with. It just might turn out to be a series with less highs and lows but of similar quality overall.

Edited for some minor typos.