I don't consider Neon Genesis Evangelion or Serial Experiments Lain or any other related works to be a masterpiece
| My least favourite genre in anime is indeed experimentals works of fiction. They are simply too unconventional in their approach to storytelling, break from conventional rules, they are typically considered "Deconstruction". Neon Genesis Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain, FLCL, Boogiepop, Devilman Crybaby and many other works. People usually praise these shows because they are complex too understand or too confusing to general audience. They don't do good job of just explaining what is going in the screen. They leave a lot of things to interpretation without giving any sense of satisfaction. A lot of symbolism in these shows are either hit or miss. Imagine if you removed all of the inner monologues in Death Note, then a lot of people would consider it pretentious. That's why I don't like Serial Experiements Lain and other Avant Garde works. |
| Thank you for relaying this information to us. |
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| Those works all have cult followings, but it's not a commonly held viewpoint that any of them are masterpieces. This thread is pointless. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| So what do you want the same cookie cutter anime to come out each year and never try something new because you might not understand it. I'm not a huge fan of the anime you listed but I respect them for trying something. I would rather take a terrible anime that tried something new over a good anime that's not even trying. |
| Okay brother, mention this in your profile as well so that no one recommends you stuff like these |
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| Understandable, have a nice week. Asuka |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| If you want people to take the topic seriously, don't start out with "I don't think X is masterpiece", or "I think X is overrated", or "let's be real, X is peak fiction". Even if you did do it for the baits, this is not something that will be enough to instigate anger which is the most effective baiting agent so I'll just assume this isn't bait. So you've made it about yourself, you didn't have a proper argument, and the bait is garbage. Kinda disappointing. |
| . . . |
| I praise evangelion because I like it, I don't care about other people, they like something else in regards to anime |
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Preachee said: If you want people to take the topic seriously, don't start out with "I don't think X is masterpiece", or "I think X is overrated", or "let's be real, X is peak fiction". Even if you did do it for the baits, this is not something that will be enough to instigate anger which is the most effective baiting agent so I'll just assume this isn't bait. So you've made it about yourself, you didn't have a proper argument, and the bait is garbage. Kinda disappointing. I do agree that I don't have a proper argument. I do want to remind you that my opinion won't apply to every anime in that genre |
Sanjay63773 said: Preachee said: If you want people to take the topic seriously, don't start out with "I don't think X is masterpiece", or "I think X is overrated", or "let's be real, X is peak fiction". Even if you did do it for the baits, this is not something that will be enough to instigate anger which is the most effective baiting agent so I'll just assume this isn't bait. So you've made it about yourself, you didn't have a proper argument, and the bait is garbage. Kinda disappointing. I do agree that I don't have a proper argument. I do want to remind you that my opinion won't apply to every anime in that genre Honestly I wouldn't mind having a discussion on this topic, because while it's nowhere near novel, it is at least a fairly intersting topic compared to the "Chainsaw man is a masterpiece" or "Chainsaw man is garbage" threads flooding AD for quite a while now. I'll say half of these anime that you've kind of loosely categorized aren't good. But some of them are truly great stuffs. But hey it's probably too late to have a talk about that now. |
| . . . |
Preachee said: Sanjay63773 said: I do agree that I don't have a proper argument. I do want to remind you that my opinion won't apply to every anime in that genre Honestly I wouldn't mind having a discussion on this topic, because while it's nowhere near novel, it is at least a fairly intersting topic compared to the "Chainsaw man is a masterpiece" or "Chainsaw man is garbage" threads flooding AD for quite a while now. I'll say half of these anime that you've kind of loosely categorized aren't good. But some of them are truly great stuffs. But hey it's probably too late to have a talk about that now. Some of them are truly great, End of Evangelion movie really stands out from this genre, that's why I love it so much. There's about 695 anime in this genre, I have watched all of them which has MAL score of about 6-8, most of them are barely comprehensible |
Sanjay63773 said: Preachee said: Honestly I wouldn't mind having a discussion on this topic, because while it's nowhere near novel, it is at least a fairly intersting topic compared to the "Chainsaw man is a masterpiece" or "Chainsaw man is garbage" threads flooding AD for quite a while now. I'll say half of these anime that you've kind of loosely categorized aren't good. But some of them are truly great stuffs. But hey it's probably too late to have a talk about that now. Some of them are truly great, End of Evangelion movie really stands out from this genre, that's why I love it so much. There's about 695 anime in this genre, I have watched all of them which has MAL score of about 6-8, most of them are barely comprehensible Lol funny thing is I consider EoE massively overrated (ugh stupid word amirite). Even wrote a review on that, but yeah I did love it a lot back then. And what's even funnier is I liked Serial Lain a fuck-ton. I consider it fascinating and wildly entertaining in its own right. I also consider stuffs like Texhnolyze to be quite fun as well, but I obviously don't consider them masterpiece or anything (Texhnolyze is quite literally at times a parody of itself). There are things in this 'genre' that I can say for certain that I quite dislike though, like Evangelion, Gankutsuou, Millennium Actress and Belladonna of Sadness. I consider these to be at least annoying, if not downright distasteful and stupid. Though I guess I kinda get why many people like them. |
| . . . |
| Absolutely, crucial information. |
Preachee said: Sanjay63773 said: Some of them are truly great, End of Evangelion movie really stands out from this genre, that's why I love it so much. There's about 695 anime in this genre, I have watched all of them which has MAL score of about 6-8, most of them are barely comprehensible Lol funny thing is I consider EoE massively overrated (ugh stupid word amirite). Even wrote a review on that, but yeah I did love it a lot back then. And what's even funnier is I liked Serial Lain a fuck-ton. I consider it fascinating and wildly entertaining in its own right. I also consider stuffs like Texhnolyze to be quite fun as well, but I obviously don't consider them masterpiece or anything (Texhnolyze is quite literally at times a parody of itself). There are things in this 'genre' that I can say for certain that I quite dislike though, like Evangelion, Gankutsuou, Millennium Actress and Belladonna of Sadness. I consider these to be at least annoying, if not downright distasteful and stupid. Though I guess I kinda get why many people like them. I think it's boils down to personal taste. I have just started watching Serial experiments Lain episode 1, it can't even figure out what is going on, it's confusing to a different level. Lain seems to be interesting, I will probably watch for her |
Sanjay63773 said: Preachee said: Lol funny thing is I consider EoE massively overrated (ugh stupid word amirite). Even wrote a review on that, but yeah I did love it a lot back then. And what's even funnier is I liked Serial Lain a fuck-ton. I consider it fascinating and wildly entertaining in its own right. I also consider stuffs like Texhnolyze to be quite fun as well, but I obviously don't consider them masterpiece or anything (Texhnolyze is quite literally at times a parody of itself). There are things in this 'genre' that I can say for certain that I quite dislike though, like Evangelion, Gankutsuou, Millennium Actress and Belladonna of Sadness. I consider these to be at least annoying, if not downright distasteful and stupid. Though I guess I kinda get why many people like them. I think it's boils down to personal taste. I have just started watching Serial experiments Lain episode 1, it can't even figure out what is going on, it's confusing to a different level. Lain seems to be interesting, I will probably watch for her You've already made a big mistake. Turn your brain off and enjoy Lain (don't turn it off too much though, maybe ask yourself questions and come up with theories is a way to not get too lost). First watch is wild and makes next to no sense for most people. But second watch will kinda more or less answer everything you're confused of (or just watch a random youtube video if you're lazy). Also it's more or less a mystery, so you're not supposed to understand much from a first episode watch. Either way, if you're bored of it, I wouldn't recommend forcing your way through (as with any other anime). If you already found yourself disliking it after 3 or 4 episodes, you'll most likely still dislike it after finishing anyway (although I do know some cases where people hate it on first watch but like it on rewatches so I guess just do whatever you feel like doing). |
| . . . |
Sanjay63773 said: My least favourite genre in anime is indeed experimentals works of fiction. They are simply too unconventional in their approach to storytelling, break from conventional rules, they are typically considered "Deconstruction". Neon Genesis Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain, FLCL, Boogiepop, Devilman Crybaby and many other works. People usually praise these shows because they are complex too understand or too confusing to general audience. They don't do good job of just explaining what is going in the screen. They leave a lot of things to interpretation without giving any sense of satisfaction. A lot of symbolism in these shows are either hit or miss. Imagine if you removed all of the inner monologues in Death Note, then a lot of people would consider it pretentious. That's why I don't like Serial Experiements Lain and other Avant Garde works. So what exactly are we supposed to do with this information? What is the purpose of this thread. Like whatever you like mate. Nobody cares. |
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| I'm looking forward to Elon Musk's comment on this take. |
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| Cool. I don't like SoL anime, but I'm not about to make a whole thread about why I think they're boring. |
| I would’ve agreed with you, but I saw your profile and the anime you had there are far worse, so no |
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| its fine to have a different taste. i dont get why you feel like it needed its own thread though. |
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Catalano said: I praise evangelion because I like it, I don't care about other people, they like something else in regards to anime This is becoming too much of a hard concept for most anime fans to understand now days That everyone have their own liking ... Seriously You can like deep stuff or Trashy guilty pleasure... no problem bro.. |
| Thx for this blogpost, but I could just look at your 100% ultra-mainstream shonen favs to understand that, OP. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era  |
TheMechaManiac said: Evangelion is not experimental, it's just a stupid meme that blew up in popularity thanks to ANN and their cardinal misunderstanding of mecha as a genre. Worst (and most zoomeresque) take on NGE I read here since I joined (and I read a shitload, as you can guess, it's been 7 years on MAL, and its weekly NGE bashing thread), kinda sad it's been typed by a supposed oldschool "mecha maniac" Rewatched NGE every 2 or 3 years since... 98 lol, when it first aired here. It's been the only thing that kept me around anime for nearly two decades... And I absolutely don't know what ANN is and why I should care. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
DeathkoOct 27, 2022 8:27 AM
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Sanjay63773 said: it's called the "show don't tell" approach as opposed to "show AND tell" like Death Note is. They're just two different methods of storytelling. One isn't necessarily better than the other unless you wanna claim so which requires you to justify.My least favourite genre in anime is indeed experimentals works of fiction. They are simply too unconventional in their approach to storytelling, break from conventional rules, they are typically considered "Deconstruction". Neon Genesis Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain, FLCL, Boogiepop, Devilman Crybaby and many other works. People usually praise these shows because they are complex too understand or too confusing to general audience. They don't do good job of just explaining what is going in the screen. They leave a lot of things to interpretation without giving any sense of satisfaction. A lot of symbolism in these shows are either hit or miss. Imagine if you removed all of the inner monologues in Death Note, then a lot of people would consider it pretentious. That's why I don't like Serial Experiements Lain and other Avant Garde works. |
TRC_Randy said: Sanjay63773 said: it's called the "show don't tell" approach as opposed to "show AND tell" like Death Note is. They're just two different methods of storytelling. One isn't necessarily better than the other unless you wanna claim so which requires you to justify.My least favourite genre in anime is indeed experimentals works of fiction. They are simply too unconventional in their approach to storytelling, break from conventional rules, they are typically considered "Deconstruction". Neon Genesis Evangelion, Serial Experiments Lain, FLCL, Boogiepop, Devilman Crybaby and many other works. People usually praise these shows because they are complex too understand or too confusing to general audience. They don't do good job of just explaining what is going in the screen. They leave a lot of things to interpretation without giving any sense of satisfaction. A lot of symbolism in these shows are either hit or miss. Imagine if you removed all of the inner monologues in Death Note, then a lot of people would consider it pretentious. That's why I don't like Serial Experiements Lain and other Avant Garde works. I'm pretty sure having inner monologues (or worse, a sidekick) stupidly narrating whatever's happening on screen that the watcher can figure out by himself is not good storytelling. I dunno, what OP describes as "good writing" compared to NGE's "bad writing" sounds like Fairy Tail sidekicks screaming "OMG HE'S BEEN KICKED", just in case the audience is too dumb to understand that when a character shoves his foot on another one's face at high speed, it's a kick. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Deathko said: i reckon you haven't seen Death Note which is what he's comparing them to.TRC_Randy said: it's called the "show don't tell" approach as opposed to "show AND tell" like Death Note is. They're just two different methods of storytelling. One isn't necessarily better than the other unless you wanna claim so which requires you to justify. I'm pretty sure having inner monologues (or worse, a sidekick) stupidly narrating whatever's happening on screen that the watcher can figure out by himself is not good storytelling. I dunno, what OP describes as "good writing" compared to NGE's "bad writing" sounds like Fairy Tail sidekicks screaming "OMG HE'S BEEN KICKED", just in case the audience is too dumb to understand that when a character shoves his foot on another one's face at high speed, it's a kick. |
| I don't have a problem with experimental anime in general, but the only one of the series you've listed that I've seen so far is Evangelion, and I wasn't a big fan of that one. The story was somewhat interesting, but I didn't really like any of the characters, which made it hard to get properly invested in the story. It's hard to care about what's going on if I don't give a shit about any of the characters. |
TRC_Randy said: Deathko said: i reckon you haven't seen Death Note which is what he's comparing them to.I'm pretty sure having inner monologues (or worse, a sidekick) stupidly narrating whatever's happening on screen that the watcher can figure out by himself is not good storytelling. I dunno, what OP describes as "good writing" compared to NGE's "bad writing" sounds like Fairy Tail sidekicks screaming "OMG HE'S BEEN KICKED", just in case the audience is too dumb to understand that when a character shoves his foot on another one's face at high speed, it's a kick. Death Note is one of the very few anime I ever dropped midway through, back when it was all the rage (2004?2006? Can't even remember when it got released). I hated it with every fiber of my being and can't remember anything from it except that I found it tedious, moralisating, edgy, and generally a can of worm I didn't want to touch with a 10 foot pole. Is the inner monologue in it actually useful and decently written? Because my most recent experience with Death Note's inner monologue was that stupid chips scene, solid 0/10 :p Considering I dropped it apparently right when it "stops being good" according to the fans, I'm confident it's not worth rewatching for me, but who knows? I'm not one to pass a definitive judgment on something I did not 100% complete tbh. |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Deathko said: well then my apologies but it seems like i don't have to take your points seriously.TRC_Randy said: i reckon you haven't seen Death Note which is what he's comparing them to. Death Note is one of the very few anime I ever dropped midway through, back when it was all the rage (2004?2006? Can't even remember when it got released). I hated it with every fiber of my being and can't remember anything from it except that I found it tedious, moralisating, edgy, and generally a can of worm I didn't want to touch with a 10 foot pole. Is the inner monologue in it actually useful and decently written? Because my most recent experience with Death Note's inner monologue was that stupid chips scene, solid 0/10 :p Considering I dropped it apparently right when it "stops being good" according to the fans, I'm confident it's not worth rewatching for me, but who knows? I'm not one to pass a definitive judgment on something I did not 100% complete tbh. |
| I also can't appreciate the Avant Garde anime that rely too much on metaphors and silences like SEL and Tenshi no Tamago (same for some non-Avant Garde ones like Texhnolyze and Sonny Boy), but I'm not really proud of that. I admit that it's the weakest aspect of my taste and I deeply respect those anime (but I still won't lie on my list and give them a higher score). On the other hand, the Avant Garde anime that I find appealing in terms of dialogues, visuals and sound like Kanashimi no Belladonna, Devilman Crybaby and NGE (not the Rebuilds though) are among my favorite anime. |
| All of those titles are divisive, many people think they are amazing (hello), many others don't. Boogiepop is even divisive among the most critical watchers. Crybaby can go fuck itself, and is not appreciated by said people, plus how is it complex or unconventional? It's gore schlock for most of its duration before it goes for a message in the last three or so episodes. |
TRC_Randy said: Deathko said: well then my apologies but it seems like i don't have to take your points seriously.Death Note is one of the very few anime I ever dropped midway through, back when it was all the rage (2004?2006? Can't even remember when it got released). I hated it with every fiber of my being and can't remember anything from it except that I found it tedious, moralisating, edgy, and generally a can of worm I didn't want to touch with a 10 foot pole. Is the inner monologue in it actually useful and decently written? Because my most recent experience with Death Note's inner monologue was that stupid chips scene, solid 0/10 :p Considering I dropped it apparently right when it "stops being good" according to the fans, I'm confident it's not worth rewatching for me, but who knows? I'm not one to pass a definitive judgment on something I did not 100% complete tbh. Doesn't tell me if the inner monologue in it is any useful or if it's just narrating obvious shit, tho :-l |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
| just watch sword art online and move on. sometimes you don't like art that tries to be deep, it's okay to not like it. |
Deathko said: so? I mean i can tell you that it IS useful if that's what you want. What else?TRC_Randy said: well then my apologies but it seems like i don't have to take your points seriously. Doesn't tell me if the inner monologue in it is any useful or if it's just narrating obvious shit, tho :-l |
TRC_Randy said: Deathko said: so? I mean i can tell you that it IS useful. What else you want?Doesn't tell me if the inner monologue in it is any useful or if it's just narrating obvious shit, tho :-l I thought this forum and thread were meant to discuss anime and its storytelling and quirks, excuse me for thinking meaningful interactions were possible with the folks here. It's clearly not with you so I'm going to have an interesting convo with someone else < ' >_< ' > |
Prophetess of the Golden Era |
Thats crazy bro But why should we care ?  |
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Deathko said: i AM trying to. It's bcoz you said you dropped Death Note long ago. I on the other hand last rewatched it entirely 2-3 months ago and is still quite fresh in my memory so i don't really know what EXACTLY do you wanna know unless you state it clearly likeTRC_Randy said: so? I mean i can tell you that it IS useful. What else you want? I thought this forum and thread were meant to discuss anime and its storytelling and quirks, excuse me for thinking meaningful interactions were possible with the folks here. It's clearly not with you so I'm going to have an interesting convo with someone else < ' >_< ' > TRC_Randy said: simple and clear. So if you need anything just ask.Deathko said: so? I mean i can tell you that it IS useful if that's what you want. What else?Doesn't tell me if the inner monologue in it is any useful or if it's just narrating obvious shit, tho :-l |
| Prime example of a thread being misunderstood due to bad phrasing. OP, while bashing those anime, you have inadvertently invited reactions to your opinion similar to how the convoluted way some of those avant-garde titles go about things annoys you. Ironic stuff. |
nevbolp said: Nah, it's just a dumb joke to let off some steam. There's nothing remotely smart about it.elnino02 said: Prime example of a thread being misunderstood due to bad phrasing. OP, while bashing those anime, you have inadvertently invited reactions to your opinion similar to how the convoluted way some of those avant-garde titles go about things annoys you. Ironic stuff. I bet you felt so smart while writing this. |
| wow i was so impressed with what you had to say, i will remeber this thread for another 2 seconds |
My Candies:       x2 |
Sanjay63773 said: Devilman Crybaby and many other works. People usually praise these shows because they are complex too understand or too confusing to general audience. They don't do good job of just explaining what is going in the screen. They leave a lot of things to interpretation without giving any sense of satisfaction. I don't see how Devilman fits this description in the slightest. Sanjay63773 said: Some of them are truly great, End of Evangelion movie really stands out from this genre, that's why I love it so much. And this movie has everything you claim to hate. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| Just what the hell is supposed to be complex about Devilman Crybaby. It's a really straight forward show, with like only one twist at the end. |
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