| I think it completely depends on how the anime tries to present itself. If it tries to be realistic like a slice of life, it has to follow some realism. But if its like JoJo, realism is irrelevant. I think people should only complain when the anime isn't being consistent with itself or dips to deep into cheap plot tricks. I tend to not have a preference, since a good story with great characters isn't contingent on realism. |
it's over | we're so back | don't take this too seriously |
| Personally if a show is blatantly trying to tell me that this is "our world" then yeah, realism matter lol. But only if thats what the show is going for with, say it's story/worldbuilding/history/theme/etc. I get a little peeved when something tries to portray itself as realistic and then does the opposite lol. |
| "The world is not beautiful, therefore it is." -Kino's Journey |
| It depends on the anime, for ex if it's a show about making a fvcking dictionarry happenin in modern japan I expect it to have realism, I used fune wo amu as an ex. But I expect comedy and non sensical stuff in shows like nichijou or plastic neesan, why would I complain about realism in nichijou? See how it works? |
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| Well @henri___ pretty much said already what my thoughts are. It really depends on the setting of the anime. |
| It doesn't have to, but good realism is good realism. |
| Anime in the most parts unrealistic because almost in any anime there will be element of impossible alot of time the viewers would like to see normal stuff that resembles everyday life and we probably will be able to sympathise with the characters more |
| Don't fuck up the present, it's connected to your future! |
| Realism is always welcome especially in certain genres and situations, but it’s not necessary. Imo, it can make a show less enjoyable sometimes. Take a look at Tsuki ga Kirei for example. It’s probably one of the most realistic romances, or even shows in general. It wasn’t bad or anything, but I did find it pretty boring at times. If I really wanted to watch a realistic romance, I wouldn’t watch it in an anime. Anime, as a medium, is way more versatile than regular tv/movies. Don’t see why you wouldn’t want to take advantage of that. |
| the only relevant realism is realism in human interactions |
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| Well, not exactly realism but some set of rules which are followed consistently. Having some form of internal logic. A story that doesn't follow such is randomness...that even can be somehow entertaining but is still a mess. Also said rules must follow some aesthetics. The bottom line is that I like when things look, sound and move nicely, not necessary being realistic. |
alshuJul 14, 2020 7:53 AM
RanpyoneS said: Does it matter to you if the work is portrayed realistically and draws heavily from the real world or the experiences of the author, compared to something that is meant to be solely escapist wish fulfillment fantasy? How does the later devalue the former? Isn't animation escapist in nature? Why do people demand for works to follow our world logic when they are rooted in a medium aimed to be as exaggerated and unrealistic as possible? . . . . . ANY MEDIUM that can be used for storytelling is escapist in nature, not just animation. You can escape from reality watching a movie with a lot of explosions and dumb and unrealistic action or playing a video game as well. . . . . . .In the same way you can consume a trashy story in animation just because provides entertainment for you, you can do the same thing in any medium...if that is the only thing you want and you're not someone that thinks to much about the story you consume as a viewer. . . . . . . .If someone wants to watch something solely escapist and more generic because a more thought-provoking story , different from the norms or complex in some way or another, takes away the entertainment(for the respective person)...because it demands more brain activity...that someone is free to do so. . . . . . . .Personally....I HATE THE IDEA THAT ANIMATION IS A SOLELY ESCAPIST MEDIUM...since I found here some storys that are much better written and realistic than a lot of live action series and movies.( This is an exemple) From my own experience, every medium has it's strengths and weaknesses. . . . . . . As for myself...if I want to escape from reality, I can't find a good reason to watch some trashy and lazy series that throws a lot of action and a boring and OP MC in a fantasy setting(or any setting) where every girl falls for him because it's an escapist story... . . . . . .When you can escape JUST FINE by watching a good story, that doesn't insult you by thinking that you're just some sort of brainless idiot that only needs to be teased with the body of some boring characters without personality in sexual positions and flashy action in a story that doesn't make any sense, in order to make you think it's a good series. . . . . . .Personally(part 2)...I hate solely escapist storys, especially in animation, because those are the reason why I can't recommend to a friend that isn't into animation medium but is a fan of Spielberg movies like Minority Report and Huxley's books to watch Psycho-Pass, Ghost in the Shell or Monster without being asked something like: "You're still watching cartoons? You're watching those cringe Japanese series for perverts?" So..YES!! REALISM DOES MATTER WHEN IT COMES TO ANIME!! |
DoruCatanaJul 14, 2020 1:12 AM
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| Definitely depends on the setting. I love when anime series get really technical and try to explain so far impossible phenomena as logically as possible (time travel mechanics, mecha anime, etc). Also abilities based on real world science are cool. |
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| suspension of disbelief. it doesn't matter what sort of bullshit any anime pulls as long as it doesn't contradict with the laws it laid down, or starts doing total asspulls. realism matters a lot when it comes to actual animation, such as weight and force. if things don't move according to how heavy they are, or how fast they should appear, it takes away a lot from the experience. |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
| I tend to respect realistic behavior, even to an unrealistic situation. |
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| It depends. If it is supposed to be realistic, it needs to commit to it. There have been plenty of anime that have been much less entertaining because they tried to go for realism but threw it out the window in several aspects (Vinland saga comes to mind). If it's a battle shounen, it doesn't need to be realistic and they don't bother trying to be. The one time I always need realism is in characters' behavior. That is, a character should act in a way that makes sense based on their personality and experiences up to that point. |
| I made a similar thread a while ago, questioning why realism is associated with good qualities when realism can actually bring down my enjoyment of a series. A comment in my thread explained that what people look for isn't realism, but believability. And people often confuse the two when commenting on more grounded strorytelling. For example, I've met a crazy psycho bitch out of nowhere before in my workplace (like someone who genuinely can go to prison), but in anime, a sudden character like that seems to be out of nowhere and takes you out of the story, especially if there was no consequence for meeting this person. Even though it can realistically happen, doesn't mean it is believable in the story. Believability is essentially just in-universe self-consistency. Realism refers to how realistic a story is compared to the standards of real life. tl;dr Believability is far more important because proper continuity is key to any story. But realism isn’t. However, people often confuse the two and say they want a realistic story because that means it's "more grounded" (which isn't necessarily true). |
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| It depends what you mean by realism. I agree I don't think there is any merit to saying it's not realistic because what is "real" honestly can differ. I have heard people say this about behavior I would argue does occur. So usually it's a lazy criticism in my personal opinion unless they expand upon why they feel it's unrealistic. I think for me the big thing is keeping the tone consistent. That is more important. If you want to have tons of fanservice gags in a silly series that's fine but in a series that had an overarching serious action theme it is out of place. So I would argue realism doesn't really matter but tonal and world consistency does. Characters should act in a way that makes sense in the context of the story. This actually isn't an anime only problem one issue I have with Marvel films not being "realistic" is how the humor is put into very serious situations where people wouldn't be making jokes. Also even so called "realistic" stories tend to have some sort of idealism or exaggeration to some degree just something to keep in mind. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 14, 2020 2:59 PM
Bfolls said: It depends. If it is supposed to be realistic, it needs to commit to it. There have been plenty of anime that have been much less entertaining because they tried to go for realism but threw it out the window in several aspects (Vinland saga comes to mind). If it's a battle shounen, it doesn't need to be realistic and they don't bother trying to be. The one time I always need realism is in characters' behavior. That is, a character should act in a way that makes sense based on their personality and experiences up to that point. See this is an issue because how is Vinland Saga wrong for doing what is basically describing a historical epic not much different than some legends like Beowulf or exaggerated history like RTK. Where do you get that Vinland should have more realistic action? There are very very few series that actually show realistic action from a history series. I would rather them go full crazy than fail at it like most. Plus action like that can only really look good in an animated series. Some of the scenes in like the RTK live action series can look kinda funny. DoruCatana said: RanpyoneS said: Does it matter to you if the work is portrayed realistically and draws heavily from the real world or the experiences of the author, compared to something that is meant to be solely escapist wish fulfillment fantasy? How does the later devalue the former? Isn't animation escapist in nature? Why do people demand for works to follow our world logic when they are rooted in a medium aimed to be as exaggerated and unrealistic as possible? . . . . . ANY MEDIUM that can be used for storytelling is escapist in nature, not just animation. You can escape from reality watching a movie with a lot of explosions and dumb and unrealistic action or playing a video game as well. . . . . . .In the same way you can consume a trashy story in animation just because provides entertainment for you, you can do the same thing in any medium...if that is the only thing you want and you're not someone that thinks to much about the story you consume as a viewer. . . . . . . .If someone wants to watch something solely escapist and more generic because a more thought-provoking story , different from the norms or complex in some way or another, takes away the entertainment(for the respective person)...because it demands more brain activity...that someone is free to do so. . . . . . . .Personally....I HATE THE IDEA THAT ANIMATION IS A SOLELY ESCAPIST MEDIUM...since I found here some storys that are much better written and realistic than a lot of live action series and movies.( This is an exemple) From my own experience, every medium has it's strengths and weaknesses. . . . . . . As for myself...if I want to escape from reality, I can't find a good reason to watch some trashy and lazy series that throws a lot of action and a boring and OP MC in a fantasy setting(or any setting) where every girl falls for him because it's an escapist story... . . . . . .When you can escape JUST FINE by watching a good story, that doesn't insult you by thinking that you're just some sort of brainless idiot that only needs to be teased with the body of some boring characters without personality in sexual positions and flashy action in a story that doesn't make any sense, in order to make you think it's a good series. . . . . . .Personally(part 2)...I hate solely escapist storys, especially in animation, because those are the reason why I can't recommend to a friend that isn't into animation medium but is a fan of Spielberg movies like Minority Report and Huxley's books to watch Psycho-Pass, Ghost in the Shell or Monster without being asked something like: "You're still watching cartoons? You're watching those cringe Japanese series for perverts?" So..YES!! REALISM DOES MATTER WHEN IT COMES TO ANIME!! The big issue I take with your statement is that enjoying something that isn't complicated does not inherently mean you don't care about the content you are consuming. Intent of the art is what matters. I don't expect Redline to give me an insight on human nature. I expect it to deliver me a wild fun ride. Lots of ecchi are bad in my opinion in anime and manga not because they are power fantasies or usually don't have something substantial to say (hentai are capable of it) but because they fail at actually achieving what they usually want to achieve by being sexy. Many isekai aren't that interesting or entertaining in that they fail at providing a compelling fantasy adventure. You don't have to say something massively insightful or deep to achieve that. You can even throw in a harem if you wish. That isn't the issue the issue is most writers of these plots don't develop their worlds and characters. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 14, 2020 3:15 PM
TolkienFan365 said: Bfolls said: It depends. If it is supposed to be realistic, it needs to commit to it. There have been plenty of anime that have been much less entertaining because they tried to go for realism but threw it out the window in several aspects (Vinland saga comes to mind). If it's a battle shounen, it doesn't need to be realistic and they don't bother trying to be. The one time I always need realism is in characters' behavior. That is, a character should act in a way that makes sense based on their personality and experiences up to that point. See this is an issue because how is Vinland Saga wrong for doing what is basically describing a historical epic not much different than some legends like Beowulf or exaggerated history like RTK. Where do you get that Vinland should have more realistic action? There are very very few series that actually show realistic action from a history series. I would rather them go full crazy than fail at it like most. Plus action like that can only really look good in an animated series. Some of the scenes in like the RTK live action series can look kinda funny. I wasn't talking about the animation being realistic as much as the characters behaviors. |
Bfolls said: TolkienFan365 said: See this is an issue because how is Vinland Saga wrong for doing what is basically describing a historical epic not much different than some legends like Beowulf or exaggerated history like RTK. Where do you get that Vinland should have more realistic action? There are very very few series that actually show realistic action from a history series. I would rather them go full crazy than fail at it like most. Plus action like that can only really look good in an animated series. Some of the scenes in like the RTK live action series can look kinda funny. I wasn't talking about the animation being realistic as much as the characters behaviors. Well again this is where realism becomes subjective |
BilboBaggins365Jul 14, 2020 3:38 PM
| because some people don't realize that "realism" for certain topics (especially ones like human behaviour) is not some objective definition, so it just gets thrown around whenever one doesn't end up comprehending why a certain event took place or something along the lines top kek |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| The only realistic thing that I always prefer over some fantasy are the personalities of the characters. The 100% good/bad people doesn't exist, and if they do, they need some kind of down to earth desire... you know, something that makes them human. Also like this dude said, following it's own rules matters. alshu said: Well, not exactly realism but some set of rules which are followed consistently. Having some form of internal logic. A story that doesn't follow such is randomness...that even can be somehow entertaining but is still a mess. |
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| In my case I don't criticism realism as it being close to real life or being scientifically accurate (I have a different term for that, which is just being completely retarded, devoid of any logic or simply, being scientifically inaccurate) There are some anime out there that blatantly uses and portrays the japanese culture the wrong way, like Nihon Chinbotsu, which is not realistic at all and it's completely retarded. That aside, for me, realism in anime belongs to the basis and the rules the anime is set on. If an anime is not faithful to it's core, then it fails to be realistic. Then comes in hand the suspension of disbelief, how much bullshit you're able to accept from an anime and how "realistic" it is taking in consideration the rules said world is set on. |
| "We could make the world better, but it's easier to just shut our eyes." ~Blackwall |
| I feel like you not caring about realism because it's an escape is exactly the same as saying you love a plot hole or two. Because that's exactly what realism avoids: That the next scene realistically follows from the current scene, that a character reacts realistically given their situation. People who say anime is escapism miss the point. If anime isn't real, then it also fails as escapism. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
TolkienFan365 said: You act like opinions about anime shouldn't be subjective. lmao Someone thinks a show is unreal and therefore doesn't like it, and your response is But that's just your opinion! No shit. Thank you for your service.Bfolls said: I wasn't talking about the animation being realistic as much as the characters behaviors. Well again this is where realism becomes subjective Personally, if there's anything unrealistic about Vinland Saga, I'd have to say Thorkell is an absolute cartoon. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
katsucats said: You act like opinions about anime shouldn't be subjective. lmao Someone thinks a show is unreal and therefore doesn't like it, and your response is But that's just your opinion! No shit. Thank you for your service. Personally, if there's anything unrealistic about Vinland Saga, I'd have to say Thorkell is an absolute cartoon. Heh, you're not wrong there. Thorkell is a total clown. |
| Depends on the context. I'm not gonna be giving a shit about realism in a Trigger anime like Kill la Kill, the tone of the show clearly conveyed it was a kooky and wacky show. If an anime is trying to sell me on their characters being more grounded in reality like a more self-serious drama, then yeah I'm gonna add that to the con list if they don't actually act like humans. I am pretty great at suspending my disbelief so it takes a lot to actually bother me, but even when it doesn't bother me it's still something I end up wishing they did better. As a writer you don't have to write your characters hyper realistically, you just need to give the reader/watcher enough to still see these characters as humans, we're willing to meet you halfway. Also, don't just call anime escapist. I'm not learned enough to say it isn't escapist in nature, I'm not well versed in it's roots I have no idea how Astro Boy was made and what it was made for. I do know what anime is now though, a versatile medium. Don't just paint it all under one broad stroke when different writers use the medium for different purposes, some using it as escapist fantasy or some even using it to inspire and to showcase their ability to tell a story. It's a visual storytelling medium, calling it rooted in escapism is just wrong. By that logic, any medium that tells a story is escapist. |
OnionKnightRisesJul 14, 2020 6:32 PM
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| The anime, or any fiction in general has to be realistic in its setting and in the world it's setup in. It should abide by all the rules the world sets. Something like FMAB or AOT are great examples. |
Anime was it's best 20000 years ago, when cavemen drew art with real depth. Modern anime is all garbage. I miss great old days of anime. |
| It doesn't matter, unless the show is actually trying to paint itself as realistic. |
| Who are you and why do you show your hostility towards a complete stranger whom you've not once spoken with before. Are you seriously asking to get blocked? Well, if that's what your intent is; to tempt me into throwing hands with someone as lowly and insignificant as you, then i may grant your wish provided you articulate yourself a bit better when trying to spite a person of my wavelength. |
| Depends. If a show is trying to pass itself off as realistic, and then something unrealistic happens then that stands out as bad writing. If the show doesn't care about realism and the story doesn't rely on it, then it doesn't matter. |
| Shoot first, think never. |
katsucats said: You act like opinions about anime shouldn't be subjective. lmao Someone thinks a show is unreal and therefore doesn't like it, and your response is But that's just your opinion! No shit. Thank you for your service. Personally, if there's anything unrealistic about Vinland Saga, I'd have to say Thorkell is an absolute cartoon. My point was that many people treat "realism" as something that can be quantifiably agreed on. "Realistic behaviours" can differ based off time period, culture personal experience etc. I see many people use this as some critique like there is a universal accepted behavior for humans. There isn't and that is why me and the other poster disagree. Secondly I never just said it's just your opinion to him bringing up why he felt it is unrealistic to shut down points I don't like. That isn't all I said. I countered those points from my own perspective on why I think it could be a behavior found in that situation. You are free to join that discussion instead of just throwing passive aggressive comments though. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 14, 2020 6:56 PM
| It doesn't matter unless the show establishes itself as being fairly realistic and then breaks it's own established "rules" without a good reason/explanation. So it's basically a matter of consistency. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| I frankly don't care about realism unless a show attempts to portray itself as realistic. I also only care about realism when it comes to the historical genre. |
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AbsurdTurk said: @TolkienFan365 I mean, true, there is no objective way to measure realistic behavior, technically speaking. But I mean, 99% of people in real life say, wouldn't just constantly be screaming unless they have a legit, serious, mental disorder. I understand what you mean about how certain behaviors are seen as more normal in certain cultures. For example, passive aggressive behavior is probably a little more accepted in Turkey, than it is in Japan. However, that doesn't mean passive aggressive behavior in Japan is so far out of reality. I think there are certain behaviors that all cultures can agree are completely unnatural, such as constantly screaming. The reason I'm using screaming as an example, is because many anime characters tend to scream a lot. Well I think my point comes up in this thread in that you can have discussion and disagree with what makes sense or what is real in terms of interactions. As I and Bfolls disagreed on the actions of certain characters being realistic in the context of the setting. It always isn't clear cut and I would argue often as viewers we tend to make judgements withdrawn from the story. I tend to find people calling characters stupid or made unrealistic decisions without considering the actual situation they are in or that people can make poor choices. To be honest yes in general I think on most things we can agree on what is realistic and what isn't but that is why you need to expand on that critique as it doesn't always line up and people have two different perceptions on what is "real". As for the example well you are going to be yelling a lot if you are in combat, maybe a culture is more aggressive etc depends on context and context within the world. Many world's rules don't line up with ours so the actions and characters don't have to either. They just have to line up with their reality. Not even just that but also you have to consider what the point of the story is as well. To take a non anime example South Park is not very realistic obviously. The behavior and actions of the characters are very over the top because it is a satirical commentary mostly commentating on American but also world wide issues and exaggerates the actions of characters to cause a comedic effect. That is where the comedy comes from. The stories aren't "realistic" but they shouldn't be to achieve the desired effect which is to cause a discussion on the current point of concern and to get you to laugh. What I am just saying is that I don't think realism is something that is always easy to define and that it isn't always desirable to have. You need to take into context what the work is trying to achieve and ensure that the rules help achieve that and stay consistent rather than this is like real life. |
BilboBaggins365Jul 14, 2020 9:06 PM
foxsurprise said: I made a similar thread a while ago, questioning why realism is associated with good qualities when realism can actually bring down my enjoyment of a series. A comment in my thread explained that what people look for isn't realism, but believability. And people often confuse the two when commenting on more grounded strorytelling. For example, I've met a crazy psycho bitch out of nowhere before in my workplace (like someone who genuinely can go to prison), but in anime, a sudden character like that seems to be out of nowhere and takes you out of the story, especially if there was no consequence for meeting this person. Even though it can realistically happen, doesn't mean it is believable in the story. Believability is essentially just in-universe self-consistency. Realism refers to how realistic a story is compared to the standards of real life. tl;dr Believability is far more important because proper continuity is key to any story. But realism isn’t. However, people often confuse the two and say they want a realistic story because that means it's "more grounded" (which isn't necessarily true). This is a good post, mixed in with the variable of just how much the individual in question is willing to suspend their disbelief. You get a rare Manaban stamp of approval. Don't use it up in one place. |
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TolkienFan365 said: Bfolls said: I wasn't talking about the animation being realistic as much as the characters behaviors. Well again this is where realism becomes subjective |
| Oh this is easy, it doesn't. Finding realism in anime is the stupidest thing ever, why would anyone bother on doing that? I watch anime to escape reality, not relive the same stupid shit in form of anime. I believe that there is no such anime out there which is 100% real life logic, it's just not possible. Even SoL anime aren't possible and are very unrealistic, but that's what makes us like it. My point is, those who try to find realism in anime and when they can't find it and bash the anime for it are beyond stupid. They should stop watching anime. |
 I said keep your hands on the table |
DoruCatana said: RanpyoneS said: Does it matter to you if the work is portrayed realistically and draws heavily from the real world or the experiences of the author, compared to something that is meant to be solely escapist wish fulfillment fantasy? How does the later devalue the former? Isn't animation escapist in nature? Why do people demand for works to follow our world logic when they are rooted in a medium aimed to be as exaggerated and unrealistic as possible? . . . . . ANY MEDIUM that can be used for storytelling is escapist in nature, not just animation. You can escape from reality watching a movie with a lot of explosions and dumb and unrealistic action or playing a video game as well. . . . . . .In the same way you can consume a trashy story in animation just because provides entertainment for you, you can do the same thing in any medium...if that is the only thing you want and you're not someone that thinks to much about the story you consume as a viewer. . . . . . . .If someone wants to watch something solely escapist and more generic because a more thought-provoking story , different from the norms or complex in some way or another, takes away the entertainment(for the respective person)...because it demands more brain activity...that someone is free to do so. . . . . . . .Personally....I HATE THE IDEA THAT ANIMATION IS A SOLELY ESCAPIST MEDIUM...since I found here some storys that are much better written and realistic than a lot of live action series and movies.( This is an exemple) From my own experience, every medium has it's strengths and weaknesses. . . . . . . As for myself...if I want to escape from reality, I can't find a good reason to watch some trashy and lazy series that throws a lot of action and a boring and OP MC in a fantasy setting(or any setting) where every girl falls for him because it's an escapist story... . . . . . .When you can escape JUST FINE by watching a good story, that doesn't insult you by thinking that you're just some sort of brainless idiot that only needs to be teased with the body of some boring characters without personality in sexual positions and flashy action in a story that doesn't make any sense, in order to make you think it's a good series. . . . . . .Personally(part 2)...I hate solely escapist storys, especially in animation, because those are the reason why I can't recommend to a friend that isn't into animation medium but is a fan of Spielberg movies like Minority Report and Huxley's books to watch Psycho-Pass, Ghost in the Shell or Monster without being asked something like: "You're still watching cartoons? You're watching those cringe Japanese series for perverts?" So..YES!! REALISM DOES MATTER WHEN IT COMES TO ANIME!! Everyone has different tastes. Not everyone wants realism in anime. A lot of us are tired from realism. We don't want it. As simple as that. A huge part of the anime community watch anime to escape reality, not all of us are like you who is ashamed to recommend anime to a friend. If your friend doesn't like anime, then don't recommend it to him, as simple as that. That's called forcing your taste on someone else. And in your case, you are creating random requirements for anime just because you failed at getting another person's interest in anime. That sounds pretty selfish. Realism in anime doesn't matter at all, not in the slightest. Calling other's brainless idiot for having a different taste in anime. Yikes. Listen here buddy, a lot of people like watching what you said. I myself personally find it interesting, you know why? Because it's unrealistic. Because I know it won't happen and it can only be a dream, who hasn't dreamt of being reborn into another world as that world's strongest person and getting all the girls to fall for them? What part of "Some people have different dreams" don't you understand? Seeing our dreams into an animated form is what makes it exciting, some of us are immersed into anime as we watch it, we feel like the protagonist, that's because some of us have better power of imagination. But to you we are all brainless idiots. It's so fun teaching people online common knowledge, it really makes you feel like a nursery teacher. See what I did there? I generalised you just like you generalised others. The bottom line is, we don't care about your sad story of how you couldn't get your friend to watch anime and how you are trying to make realism a requirement for anime. Yes, there are a minority like you who always whine about realism, but majority watches it for the reason I mentioned, and the decisions are always made by the majority, in terms of anime. I recommend that you suggest your friend to watch Ben 10 or Mickey Mouse Club House since those aren't Japanese series for perverts. |
I said keep your hands on the table |
| If the anime tries to mimic our world it definitely has to be realistic to an extent! But if its a fantasy setting then the author has to draw obvious rules for his world that he has to follow otherwise the show becomes a convoluted mess |
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TolkienFan365 said: DoruCatana said: . . . . . ANY MEDIUM that can be used for storytelling is escapist in nature, not just animation. You can escape from reality watching a movie with a lot of explosions and dumb and unrealistic action or playing a video game as well. . . . . . .In the same way you can consume a trashy story in animation just because provides entertainment for you, you can do the same thing in any medium...if that is the only thing you want and you're not someone that thinks to much about the story you consume as a viewer. . . . . . . .If someone wants to watch something solely escapist and more generic because a more thought-provoking story , different from the norms or complex in some way or another, takes away the entertainment(for the respective person)...because it demands more brain activity...that someone is free to do so. . . . . . . .Personally....I HATE THE IDEA THAT ANIMATION IS A SOLELY ESCAPIST MEDIUM...since I found here some storys that are much better written and realistic than a lot of live action series and movies.( This is an exemple) From my own experience, every medium has it's strengths and weaknesses. . . . . . . As for myself...if I want to escape from reality, I can't find a good reason to watch some trashy and lazy series that throws a lot of action and a boring and OP MC in a fantasy setting(or any setting) where every girl falls for him because it's an escapist story... . . . . . .When you can escape JUST FINE by watching a good story, that doesn't insult you by thinking that you're just some sort of brainless idiot that only needs to be teased with the body of some boring characters without personality in sexual positions and flashy action in a story that doesn't make any sense, in order to make you think it's a good series. . . . . . .Personally(part 2)...I hate solely escapist storys, especially in animation, because those are the reason why I can't recommend to a friend that isn't into animation medium but is a fan of Spielberg movies like Minority Report and Huxley's books to watch Psycho-Pass, Ghost in the Shell or Monster without being asked something like: "You're still watching cartoons? You're watching those cringe Japanese series for perverts?" So..YES!! REALISM DOES MATTER WHEN IT COMES TO ANIME!! The big issue I take with your statement is that enjoying something that isn't complicated does not inherently mean you don't care about the content you are consuming. Intent of the art is what matters. I don't expect Redline to give me an insight on human nature. I expect it to deliver me a wild fun ride. Lots of ecchi are bad in my opinion in anime and manga not because they are power fantasies or usually don't have something substantial to say (hentai are capable of it) but because they fail at actually achieving what they usually want to achieve by being sexy. Many isekai aren't that interesting or entertaining in that they fail at providing a compelling fantasy adventure. You don't have to say something massively insightful or deep to achieve that. You can even throw in a harem if you wish. That isn't the issue the issue is most writers of these plots don't develop their worlds and characters. Well...You shouldn't...because I think you misunderstood my point!! . . . . . .Realism DOES MATTER...in the context of the story, but is determined by the genre, worldbuilding, setting and every element that creates the bases of the universe where it takes place...the problem is...(as you said)..that most writers don't develop their worlds and characters but also the fact that their writting isn't consistent with what was previously established, resulting in a lack of realism...and realism is necessary for the story to make sense(in context). . . . . . .In that sense...of course a story doesn't need to be complicated in order to be good and of course enjoying something that isn't very complex in presentation, rich in themes or deep in a way or another doesn't mean you don't care about the content you are consuming... . . . . . .Redline is one of my favourite animated movies AND IS A REALISTIC MOVIE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY. To criticise Redline for the wild fun ride is like criticising the movie Man of Steel by saying that the story doesn't make sense because Superman is an alien and aliens don't exist. Judging a story for what it wants to be vs what it actually is...is the proof that you care about what you see...and that's the problem when it comes to enjoying storys from this medium. . . . . . .A great movie like Redline is very different from series like Mirai Nikki, Akame ga Kill, Conception, School Days, Boku no Pico, Eromanga-sensei, Highschool of the Dead, Kenja no Mago, Azur Lane or Asterix War. In this series, the writting is so bad that the lack or realism is just a small part of everything that makes them to be pure garbage in a dumpster fire...in some cases, anyone that calls them "storys" , would be generous. . . . . . .These are the type of series that don't need a lot of brain activity in order to enjoy them that I was reffering to....(Quite the oposite!! You need to turn it of completely!!) . . . . . . AND THESE ARE THE SOLELY ESCAPIST STORYS THAT I HATE BECAUSE IT REPRESENTS THE REASON WHY ANIMATION ISN'T TAKEN SERIOUSLY AS A MEDIUM FOR STORYTELLING BY THOSE WHO AREN'T ALREADY INTO IT(because of the image that these series are projecting to the public eye)...LEADING TO SITUATIONS LIKE THE ONE I DESCRIBED REGARDING RECOMMANDATIONS FOR ''OUTSIDERS''aka..."normies". . . . . . .In this context, of course realism does matter(no matter the story)...BECAUSE THE WRITTING MATTERS. (you can have a 12 years old assasin like Killua from HxH and the story can still make sense because isn't unusual in the context of that world, where the story takes place) . . . . . .Also...I really can't picture that someone who wants to consume a good story would enjoy the type of series that I said I hate....only if it's someone that really doesn't care about that and just seeks pure entertainment...in wich case....boring characters with sexy bodies, explosions, action and scenes that are teasing the viewer with sex can be enough. (Redline is much more and in that case, the writting is solid....it isn't even a reference for comparison) . . . . . . Also(part 2)...there are great series, even in this medium that have the realism of our world, like 3-gatsu no Lion. |
DoruCatanaJul 15, 2020 5:49 AM
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| The thing is that realism doesn't only mean 100% copying real life. OP mentions exaggeration as an important technique of anime/animation and that's right. But Exaggeration still requires reality as the base, it needs something to exaggerate and that something must still feel somewhat real and believable for the exaggeration to be effective. You can have people react to situations in exaggerated ways, but if the reactions themselves make no sense the exaggerations won't either. The whole reason why we can all understand and keep up with and enjoy anime is because we share the same reality as reference. We recognize emotions in anime that we know from real life. We're tied together by the same frame of reference, our reality. In fiction we can decide to exaggerate things or mix up stuff, replace some aspects of our known reality with others but we can never completely remove ourselves from our reality. It's just more selective which aspects of realism matter in a particular anime, which are adjusted or modified and which are left intact. But it's naive and ignorant to pretend that fiction completely severs any ties to reality and does not require it as a frame of reference whatsoever. The only way you can think that, is if you haven't thought hard enough about the topic tbh. Manaban said: foxsurprise said: I made a similar thread a while ago, questioning why realism is associated with good qualities when realism can actually bring down my enjoyment of a series. A comment in my thread explained that what people look for isn't realism, but believability. And people often confuse the two when commenting on more grounded strorytelling. For example, I've met a crazy psycho bitch out of nowhere before in my workplace (like someone who genuinely can go to prison), but in anime, a sudden character like that seems to be out of nowhere and takes you out of the story, especially if there was no consequence for meeting this person. Even though it can realistically happen, doesn't mean it is believable in the story. Believability is essentially just in-universe self-consistency. Realism refers to how realistic a story is compared to the standards of real life. tl;dr Believability is far more important because proper continuity is key to any story. But realism isn’t. However, people often confuse the two and say they want a realistic story because that means it's "more grounded" (which isn't necessarily true). This is a good post, mixed in with the variable of just how much the individual in question is willing to suspend their disbelief. You get a rare Manaban stamp of approval. Don't use it up in one place. Eh, I disagree. Realism and Believability are two sides of the same coin. Everything that can realistically happen is also to be treated as believable as far as I'm concerned. The issue with random, pointless stuff in storytelling isn't whether it's believable or realistic, it's just whether it's meaningful or not. Something can be believable but have no point, in which case it begs the question why it needed to be included in the story. But that's questioning its purpose, not the believability. Consistency with the rules the anime sets for itself is also an important part, but that's more about physics, worldbuilding, logical consistency and the likes. I don't see how a random psycho character making a short, incidental appearance around the MC can ever break any consistency. It's bad writing when there is no point to it, but that's about it. It doesn't really relate to either believability or consistency as far as I'm concerned. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Arin-san said: Everyone has different tastes. Not everyone wants realism in anime. A lot of us are tired from realism. We don't want it. As simple as that. A huge part of the anime community watch anime to escape reality, not all of us are like you who is ashamed to recommend anime to a friend. If your friend doesn't like anime, then don't recommend it to him, as simple as that. That's called forcing your taste on someone else. And in your case, you are creating random requirements for anime just because you failed at getting another person's interest in anime. That sounds pretty selfish. Realism in anime doesn't matter at all, not in the slightest. Calling other's brainless idiot for having a different taste in anime. Yikes. Listen here buddy, a lot of people like watching what you said. I myself personally find it interesting, you know why? Because it's unrealistic. Because I know it won't happen and it can only be a dream,who hasn't dreamt of being reborn into another world as that world's strongest person and getting all the girls to fall for them? What part of "Some people have different dreams" don't you understand? Seeing our dreams into an animated form is what makes it exciting, some of us are immersed into anime as we watch it, we feel like the protagonist, that's because some of us have better power of imagination. But to you we are all brainless idiots. It's so fun teaching people online common knowledge, it really makes you feel like a nursery teacher. See what I did there? I generalised you just like you generalised others. The bottom line is, we don't care about your sad story of how you couldn't get your friend to watch anime and how you are trying to make realism a requirement for anime. Yes, there are a minority like you who always whine about realism, but majority watches it for the reason I mentioned, and the decisions are always made by the majority, in terms of anime. I recommend that you suggest your friend to watch Ben 10 or Mickey Mouse Club House since those aren't Japanese series for perverts. You didn't get my point at all!! When I said "Realism does matter" I meant the realism of the writting IN THE CONTEXT OF THE STORY!! NOT THE REALISM OF OUR WORLD...THE REALISM IN FICTION...that is determined by the genre, worldbuilding, setting and every element that creates the bases of the universe where the story takes place. To further quote myself...You can have a 12 years old assasin like Killua from HxH and the story can still make sense because isn't unusual in the context of that world, where the story takes place. IN THE SAME WAY...YOU CAN HAVE A COMEDY HAREM SERIES OR A FANTASY ROMANCE WITH 20 ROMANTIC INTERESTS FOR THE MC WRITTEN POORLY OR NOT. IF IT'S A GOOD STORY...IT WILL HAVE THE REALISM OF MAKING YOU TO BY INTO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ORDER TO MAKE YOU ENJOY THE SERIES. IF IT'S NOT A WELL WRITTEN STORY=>NO REALISM IN THE CONTEXT=>YOU WILL ASK YOURSELF "WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON? IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE'' The question was: "Does realism matter in this medium?" And my answer was: "Yes! From a writting standpoint, it does matter." . . . . . .I said that I hate the idea that the animation medium IS A SOLELY ESCAPIST MEDIUM....with accent on SOLELY ESCAPIST...because you can escape from reality even if you watch a good story or not...and by consuming a story from any medium...not just animation. . . . . . .You are the one who generalised this, thinking that all the series with an OP MC that gets all the girls and have a lot of action...probably are(or must be)a SOLELY ESCAPIST series...and I probably criticise those series because are not "realistic"....FALSE!! . . . . .You can have a fantasy story about a young knight that is cursed by a witch to "be loved, but never to love" or something like that for some reason....that later gets a harem...and can be a comedy "Every time I think I like I girl, I found out that she -insert something for a joke-...or can be a drama about someone not finding peace by love or something...AND IN ORDER TO BE GOOD STORY...AGAIN...IT NEEDS TO BE REALISTIC IN THE CONTEXT. . . . . . .He can't escape from the curse in a morning just because he decides that he wants to be free without a good reason...IT'S NOT A MATTER OF TASTE FROM A GENRE STANDPOINT...IT'S ABOUT THE WRITTING...AND EVEN IF SOMEONE WOULD LIKE THAT HE BECOMES FREE WITHOUT A GOOD EXPLANATION, OR AT LEAST DON'T CARE...THE FACT THAT THE STORY ISN'T REALISTIC ANYMORE REMAINS. YOU don't care about "my sad story"...because I didn't recommend something that YOU liked. . . . . .And what makes me to be ashamed is NOT THE MEDIUM...as you said...BUT THOSE FANBOYS LIKE YOU THAT GET OFFENDEN WHEN SOMEONE DOESN'T LIKE THEIR HAREM ECHI COMEDYS WITH 99% FAP MATERIAL FOR CHARACTERS AND 100% BORING FANTASYS WHERE AN OP AND PERVERT IDIOT SAVES THE WORD FROM EVIL. So"Listen here buddy"....BECAUSE ''PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES"...THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME WHO WILL DEMAND MORE FROM A STORY THAN THAT...AND YOU NEED TO DEAL WITH IT. |
DoruCatanaJul 18, 2020 2:55 PM
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| Well, for me it depends if whether or not the show is supposed to be taken seriously and seen as a portrayal of real-life situations. If that's not the case, then it can do whatever it wants, I won't care. But in the opposite situation, then it really has to be realistic in my opinion and well, it's pretty obvious why. If the show tries to be taken seriously and tries to portray real-life situations but fails at being realistic, then it makes the creator be seen as whether someone pretentious, or someone incapable of understanding simple human behaviours and it makes the show suffer from it. I don't want it to be 100% realistic. In some cases, that would be very boring and uninteresting. I just want it to be believable. Yeah actually, I think rather than realism, believability might be what I'm really looking for. |
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