| Of course. Symphogear is a huge phenomenon over in Japan, but only a small handful of people here in the west have any clue as to what it is. |
 "I am not sure that I exist, actually. I am all the writers that I have read, all the people that I have met, all the women that I have loved; all the cities I have visited." ― Jorge Luis Borges [url=]Goodreads[/url] | [url=]Letterboxd[/url] |
Rabidfox said: I always catch myself think about how well certain anime preform in Japan as opposed to western countries. I wonder how well the anime that we love and praise here, (such as Kimetsu no Yaiba and Dr. Stone) are doing in their home country. I also wonder how well those "trash ecchi" show that we despised here are doing over there as well. I know its kind of a fallacy but because of "Otaku Culture" I sometimes think if an anime does not have bouncing boobs or panty shots, its not going to do well in Japan. I was watching Rail Wars when I was thinking of this. I'm pretty sure I remember that Rail Wars didn't sell very many BDs in Japan. There haven't been a whole lot of commercially successful ecchi titles in the last 10 years or so, which is why there are less shows from that genre now than in late 00s and early 10s. Sure, there are some successful franchises but on average the 'sex sells' thing is a myth. A lot of ecchi shows didn't sell well or barely made their money back. Then again it has always been a niche demographic that also makes a lot of money with merch sales so it's hard to say exactly how badly or well any individual show is doing. The cutesy/moe type of shows have been way more successful with the otaku crowd in japan for quite a while now, but even that market is far from a guarantee. Unless the show stands out in some way from other, similar shows it can easily be overlooked. In general I think it's hard to compare tests of east vs west in such broad terms. Even in Japan there is a huge difference in terms of anime taste if you look at the general populace or otaku specifically. If we just compare MAL with Japan then I'd say there is a slight tendency for action-based shows to be more popular here, unless they're mecha, while cutesy slice of life shows are a bit more popular in Japan on average. Dramas do similarly well on both sides, sports anime are bigger in Japan, as are mechas. And everybody loves Jojo. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Rabidfox said: I always catch myself think about how well certain anime preform in Japan as opposed to western countries. I wonder how well the anime that we love and praise here, (such as Kimetsu no Yaiba and Dr. Stone) are doing in their home country. Kimetsu no Yaiba was the most successful of its season by a long shot, it got a movie sequel announced before it even finished airing, it has received awards in Japan and the manga is one of the top sellers of current Shonen Jump, even beating One Piece's numbers last week. Rabidfox said: I also wonder how well those "trash ecchi" show that we despised here are doing over there as well. I know its kind of a fallacy but because of "Otaku Culture" I sometimes think if an anime does not have bouncing boobs or panty shots, its not going to do well in Japan. I was watching Rail Wars when I was thinking of this. It's not the only source to measure popularity but if you look at this list you won't see many ecchi shows at the top. The whole "sex sells" thing is a myth in Japan. deg said: dude sexual fanservice matters to Japan a lot but should not be the main focus, shows like SSSS.Gridman is highly successful in Japan just because of the waifus alone on that show but it barely talk about in none japanese fandom circles Ehm, Gridman's popularity is far easier to explain because it's an adaptation of a classic tokusatsu series than due to a couple thigh shots. |
jal90Oct 27, 2019 5:13 PM
| If you watch "The Anime Man" on YouTube you will get an answer. But to sum it up for you, "Tiger x Bunny" is number 1 in Japan. And "FMA Brotherhood" is still number one here. |
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Greyleaf said: Yeah, I don't understand all the interest, at least from what I've gathered from season 1. Maybe this is proof of the answer OP seeks. Of course. Symphogear is a huge phenomenon over in Japan, but only a small handful of people here in the west have any clue as to what it is. |
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| While my taste is rather similar to the west... I can definitely tell you that there's distinct difference in what Eastern and Western like in anime. Japanese for example would love shows like Kemono friends, tiger and bunny, naruto, one piece, naruko, doraemon,.... While the west always talk about Cowboy bepop, Akira, FMA, Gintama... |
| The world is not beautiful. Therefore, it is. |
| Just check any ranking list or popularity list from Japan. I always shit on the west taste of anime but japanese themselves like even worse trash. That's why so much garbage gets more seasons or get adapted. |
Check out my taste and my profile. |
| i know that shows like infinate stratos, is the order a rabbit, tiger & bunny, space battleship yamato, and the toaru series were super popular in japan but didn't get as much popularity from western audiences. meanwhile nichijou, baccano, devilman crybaby (2018), highschool of the dead, and deadman wonderland did really bad in japan but was really popular in the west. also the vast majority of gundam/mecha shows that were popular in japan go unheard of in the west. and yes, i know some of the most popular anime for western audiences falls under this genre, but the vast majority of mecha shows go under the radar for western audiences. |
| ABS-OLUTELY. Examples: Japan hated Cowboy Bebop; USA loved it. USA didn't like Charlotte; Japan loved it. I find my own tastes leaning towards Japan's more often... |
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| Yes, if you compare western and Japanese anime ranking lists, the difference in taste is quite noticable. Japanese audiences tend to favor more otaku centric anime like moe, isekai, harem, ecchi, idol, slice of life, mecha, and kid shows. For most of them, it's less about art or expression and more about commercial pandering. The west on the other hand tend to put a bit more focus on denser narratives, characterization, and lots of action to the forefront. What we value is almost on opposite ends of a spectrum, so that's why western fans like to say the Japanese have shit taste. |
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Rabidfox said: Funny you should think that about Japanese tastes, because I've always felt something that's...not really the opposite, but feels kinda like it is. I've had a hunch that the Japanese are a little more attentive (compared to westerners) to an emotion of quiet mild melancholy, a sense of wistfulness perhaps?I always catch myself think about how well certain anime preform in Japan as opposed to western countries. I wonder how well the anime that we love and praise here, (such as Kimetsu no Yaiba and Dr. Stone) are doing in their home country. I also wonder how well those "trash ecchi" show that we despised here are doing over there as well. I know its kind of a fallacy but because of "Otaku Culture" I sometimes think if an anime does not have bouncing boobs or panty shots, its not going to do well in Japan. I was watching Rail Wars when I was thinking of this. Mod edit: removed off-topic discussion |
MrZawaOct 28, 2019 10:44 AM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Different people have different tastes, not only because of nationality but because of every possible imaginable factor, even what someone watched as a kid. Since we have more in common with each other than with Japan, this could explain what you observed. FYI "trash" ecchi does have its appeal, I like it, maybe it's just not for you. |
 Leading biologist Scott Pitnick said: The bigger your 'nads, the smaller your brains |
| On story front, the manga that are popular in japan i.e. naruto, dragon ball, FMA:B, bleach etc. have their anime adaptations more popular in west. Story here remains the same and considering how manga is more popular than anime in japan and how anime is more popular than manga in west, I don't think our difference in taste in case of stories is all that different. Again, there are doraemon and shinchan which are not as big in the west but they are still one of the most popular franchises out of japan considering it's popularity in rest of asian countries especially indian subcontinent and south-east asia. |
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| Funnily enough I like better Tiger & Bunny (not the best anime ever tho) than Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood but I suspect that the japanese are experiencing them very differently (like they see the plot and the characters from different perspective). Also there was this topic which name escapes me...but someone gave a link to a top anime japanese chart which was supposed to be the closest thing to the MAL chart: made and constantly updated by anime fans, not the popularity contest of NHK. It had some very familiar to the western fan titles like Akira, GITS, Cowboy Bebop (it's a myth the nobody cares about it in Japan), Gundam (maybe Unicorn?), One Piece ect. |
alshuOct 28, 2019 1:11 AM
Pyro said: I've actually had a rather different impression, coming from a different hobby, though one which has a lot of overlap with the anime fandom.Yes, if you compare western and Japanese anime ranking lists, the difference in taste is quite noticable. Japanese audiences tend to favor more otaku centric anime like moe, isekai, harem, ecchi, idol, slice of life, mecha, and kid shows. For most of them, it's less about art or expression and more about commercial pandering. The west on the other hand tend to put a bit more focus on denser narratives, characterization, and lots of action to the forefront. What we value is almost on opposite ends of a spectrum, so that's why western fans like to say the Japanese have shit taste. Let's say you have a neat idea for a videogame mechanic, and you wanna make an indie game to explore it. What kind of excuse plot do you stick onto it? I've noticed that western indie games tend to more commonly go for humor, with a lean toward riffing on genre conventions/expectations and also self-parody (a sort of "self-aware former teenager" attitude which honestly feels a bit like that one YouTuber's the "anime is trash and so am I" sentiment), while Japanese indie games tend to more commonly go for feel-good/adorable cutesiness, or surprisingly dark premises (complete with tragedy, philosophical ponderings, etc.) that are played seriously...or sometimes even mixng the two. That's not to say that anywhere near all games in each region are like these characterizations (and "exceptions" exist in abundance on both sides of the Pacific), but it's just a feeling I've had based on my observations. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
Kosmonaut said: The way I understand it, Symphogear is like the only spiritual heir to Kawamori (Macross). Like it's pretty weird when you think about it that Macross didn't spawn more successors, considering its incredible popularity. Mastumoto and Gundam inspired hundreds of space anime in comparison. But I guess it's pretty hard to mix singing with fighting, even Precure only used it once, and in stuff like Pitchi Pitchi Pitch the fighting is more like a side thing. Which also explains Symphogear success since the mix is quite well done. Greyleaf said: Yeah, I don't understand all the interest, at least from what I've gathered from season 1. Maybe this is proof of the answer OP seeks. Of course. Symphogear is a huge phenomenon over in Japan, but only a small handful of people here in the west have any clue as to what it is. |
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| eastern like rape and lolis, western more into action |
| Yes. Mecha anime is more popular in Japan then it is in the west |
| HACKs! 🤢🤮 |
| i know that some shows that blow up in the west dont get popular in japan, for example watamote is pretty well known here, yet watamote isnt that popular or well known. same with deadman wonderland it is super popular here but pretty much unwatched in japan. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Rabidfox said: Funny you should think that about Japanese tastes, because I've always felt something that's...not really the opposite, but feels kinda like it is. I've had a hunch that the Japanese are a little more attentive (compared to westerners) to an emotion of quiet mild melancholy, a sense of wistfulness perhaps?I always catch myself think about how well certain anime preform in Japan as opposed to western countries. I wonder how well the anime that we love and praise here, (such as Kimetsu no Yaiba and Dr. Stone) are doing in their home country. I also wonder how well those "trash ecchi" show that we despised here are doing over there as well. I know its kind of a fallacy but because of "Otaku Culture" I sometimes think if an anime does not have bouncing boobs or panty shots, its not going to do well in Japan. I was watching Rail Wars when I was thinking of this. I definitely get the gist of what you're talking about. I feel like the Japanese put more value on "the little things', like simple pleasures in life...and nature especially seems to be a big one. On the whole, I'd say they're more fond of telling stories with symbolism and weaving in cultural beliefs. But they do so with more subtlety so a foreign audience won't "get it" unless they're savvy with those things. |
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Kled11 said: eastern like rape and lolis, western more into action I like action that includes rape and lolis. |
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| I know I do. Whenever I see a list of the current top anime in japan I often disagree with the order they're in and there's usually a few I think should be on there that are missing. Also I'm not as obsessed with cute little girls and idols as they seem to be. |
| Yes, for example Bunny Girl Senpai was alot more popular in the west then it was in Japan. |
 "Do you know why snow is white? Because it's forgotten what color it's supposed to be." - C.C. |
Chiibi said: GlennMagusHarvey said: Funny you should think that about Japanese tastes, because I've always felt something that's...not really the opposite, but feels kinda like it is. I've had a hunch that the Japanese are a little more attentive (compared to westerners) to an emotion of quiet mild melancholy, a sense of wistfulness perhaps? I definitely get the gist of what you're talking about. I feel like the Japanese put more value on "the little things', like simple pleasures in life...and nature especially seems to be a big one. On the whole, I'd say they're more fond of telling stories with symbolism and weaving in cultural beliefs. But they do so with more subtlety so a foreign audience won't "get it" unless they're savvy with those things. I'm not sure how much I'd agree with the statement that the Japanese are "more fond of telling stories with symbolism and weaving in cultural beliefs", since I think cultural beliefs are often weaved into stories from our own region, albeit just more invisibly since we're used to them. That said I think the abundance of symbolism has something to do with animation being a medium where settings other than real life are relatively easy to explore, and when you combine fantastical settings with serious plots you tend to get more of this. But I also do wonder whether anime tends to also be on the more poetic side of things, which in turn also makes for more symbolism. Also I disagree that it's inaccessible to a foreign audience -- aside from maybe specific cultural elements like Shinto shrines or some particular school shenanigans. I'd say that the themes that are explored tend to be relatively universal, so even if the premise includes the something a foreigner doesn't know, the storytelling themes tend to make it understandable -- for example, one doesn't need to know exactly how a sport is played in order to understand the idea of someone getting better at that sport. Though obviously it can be a tougher sell to a westerner if the premise feels uninteresting to them, since the premise always gets presented first in storytelling. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: I think cultural beliefs are often weaved into stories from our own region, albeit just more invisibly since we're used to them. Can you name some examples? That said I think the abundance of symbolism has something to do with animation being a medium where settings other than real life are relatively easy to explore, and when you combine fantastical settings with serious plots you tend to get more of this. But I also do wonder whether anime tends to also be on the more poetic side of things, which in turn also makes for more symbolism. Eh...the kind of thing I'm talking about...is...ever notice how during conversations in anime, the screen might focus on a cicada chirping or shedding its skin? An animated show in the West would never do that...probably because the audience would find it "weird" (and they think bugs are gross). But the Japanese audience finds it normal and they understand the foreshadowing told through the cicada shedding its skin. Also I disagree that it's inaccessible to a foreign audience -- aside from maybe specific cultural elements like Shinto shrines or some particular school shenanigans. It's not just that though; Japan is very superstitious and has a lot of sayings that don't apply to English-speakers so unless said audience did some research, they wouldn't know something like "a tea stem sticking straight up means 'good luck'" or "a koi fish jumping is a joke because they're talking about romance" and things like that. |
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| Definitely yes, judging by the fact I watch less than a third of each anime season and ignore the rest. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| The way SAO is perceived between Japan and the West will easily answer this question for you |
What a beautiful Duwang |
| Implying western auddences can agree on the subjective good taste kek. |
| "among monsters and humans, there are only two types. Those who undergo suffering and spread it to others. And those who undergo suffering and avoid giving it to others." -Alice “Beauty is no quality in things themselves: It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them; and each mind perceives a different beauty.” David Hume “Evil is created when someone gives up on someone else. It appears when everyone gives up on someone as a lost cause and removes their path to salvation. Once they are cut off from everyone else, they become evil.” -Othinus  |
| Western taste is kinda cringe and japan is already aware of it so they usually cares about asian fans only. "Too lazy to type more" |
Chiibi said: I wasn't thinking explicit cultural mythos but just thinking general cultural expectations of behavior -- y'know, the kind of thing where, for example, people say it's more common in Japan for people to stand down and avoid confrontation in the case of a workplace conflict, while people are more outspoken in the United States in contrast.GlennMagusHarvey said: I think cultural beliefs are often weaved into stories from our own region, albeit just more invisibly since we're used to them. Can you name some examples? Chiibi said: Oh yeah, that's a thing. And you're right, it does lend a more poetic feel to the storytelling -- even if the imagery isn't meant to be symbolism but just simply a pan of the background. Though I think it's also used more practically as an animation budget saver, haha. But, even so, it's very often the constraints on an art form that give it its particular flavor.That said I think the abundance of symbolism has something to do with animation being a medium where settings other than real life are relatively easy to explore, and when you combine fantastical settings with serious plots you tend to get more of this. But I also do wonder whether anime tends to also be on the more poetic side of things, which in turn also makes for more symbolism. Eh...the kind of thing I'm talking about...is...ever notice how during conversations in anime, the screen might focus on a cicada chirping or shedding its skin? An animated show in the West would never do that...probably because the audience would find it "weird" (and they think bugs are gross). But the Japanese audience finds it normal and they understand the foreshadowing told through the cicada shedding its skin. Chiibi said: I don't see these sorts of things all that much...? Maybe it has something to do with the kinds of stories I watch; for example I know I have a preference for fantasy settings, while I'd expect such features to be more present in stories set in present-day or historical Japan. Regardless, though, even if one doesn't understand them, I think it still registers as some sort of symbolism -- just not specific to the story. But I guess you're right in that they can be confusing.Also I disagree that it's inaccessible to a foreign audience -- aside from maybe specific cultural elements like Shinto shrines or some particular school shenanigans. It's not just that though; Japan is very superstitious and has a lot of sayings that don't apply to English-speakers so unless said audience did some research, they wouldn't know something like "a tea stem sticking straight up means 'good luck'" or "a koi fish jumping is a joke because they're talking about romance" and things like that. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| @GlennMagusHarvey I'm very into the "Japan-ish" anime series...so yeah, that could be the reason. I watch a lot of fantasy too....but for some reason, I remember little scenes like that... I understand the language pretty well so there's that too. |
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| Definitely, the big anime in the US are mainly shounen, for example the biggest being My Hero Academia, but if I tell my friends about Monogatari, a series that did pretty well in Japan, they tell me they've never heard of it. |
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Chiibi said: Well sometimes those scenes can really define a memorable moment! :D@GlennMagusHarvey I'm very into the "Japan-ish" anime series...so yeah, that could be the reason. I watch a lot of fantasy too....but for some reason, I remember little scenes like that... I understand the language pretty well so there's that too. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| uh yea, you'll see stuff in Japan you'd NEVER SEE at least here in America, the waifuism is strong there |
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