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| It seems everyone agrees that the animation sucked in this episode... I was not expecting scenes with such poor quality art compared to the previous episodes... not sure what happened there... I didn't expect that either! I was expecting him to get his other leg back (because his fake leg broke), and for some reason I assumed he had a spine already... dakenzi97 said: This episode felt SUPER WEIRD. What happened to the woman at the ending of the episode 14?... Hope this was one time thing. :/ Dang I forgot about that woman! It's weird how she didn't reappear. I also hope this all was a one time thing: a one time thing of plot holes and poor quality animation/art |
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| Gurren Lagann 2.0 |
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Zaugr said: -snip- So you are telling me that this is a detailed animation style with proper movement and I am too ignorant to understand this.  I get the point on sacrificing detail to put more emphasis on animation (In fact, they are quite common). Dororo's run from the ghoul babies is actually kinda cool. What I don't get is all of the scenes where characters are just standing and talking. If they aren't moving anyway, why not put a bit more detail in shots like these? Their lack of detail on the face is glaringly obvious, especially they are at mid to close distance. Don't tell me those are art styles too. That's just lazy. A short in budget is literally a meme anyway. Animation studios don't actually run out of money mid-production (usually. There are cases). So what's the fuss at getting so triggered about it. |
copyrightRingoApr 22, 2019 4:41 PM
| 「ボクは…確かに現実に絶望している。だけど、自分には絶望していない!! 今がつまらないか…楽しいのか…平凡なのか…決めているのは現実じゃない。決めるのはボクだ!!ボクが望めば不可能はない!!」-桂木桂馬 "True, I've given up on the real world. However, I haven't given up on myself!! The world doesn't get to decide whether my life is boring, fun, or ordinary because that's my decision to make!! As long as I have the will, nothing is impossible!!" -Katsuragi Keima |
| Dip in animation quality, but rise in thematic quality. The show's pointing towards reaching something greater than a monster of the week. |
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| Watching that animation was more painful than spontaneously sprouting a spine. Also, HE DIDN'T HAVE A FUCKING SPINE?! Really looking forward to the next episode at least. |
copyrightRingo said: Zaugr said: -snip- So you are telling me that this is a detailed animation style with proper movement and I am too ignorant to understand this. I get the point on sacrificing detail to put more emphasis on animation (In fact, they are quite common). Dororo's run from the ghoul babies is actually kinda cool. What I don't get is all of the scenes where characters are just standing and talking. If they aren't moving anyway, why not put a bit more detail in shots like these? Their lack of detail on the face is glaringly obvious, especially they are at mid to close distance. Don't tell me those are art styles too. That's just lazy. A short in budget is literally a meme anyway. Animation studios don't actually run out of money mid-production (usually. There are cases). So what's the fuss at getting so triggered about it. Apparently this is his style. Which looks awful and is completely inconsistent with the show. There's really no excusing it, nobody cares if it's your "style". If it looks bad it looks bad. And that's what the general consensus is, even the native viewers are saying this is sub-par or mediocre at best. I am actually mind blown that people are saying it's because he focuses on consistent animation. Consistently weird I guess... IMO this chapter was alright. But if this show looked like this every episode I'd drop it instantly, it was definitely distracting at times. |
zagzee said: Apparently this is his style. Which looks awful and is completely inconsistent with the show. There's really no excusing it, nobody cares if it's your "style". If it looks bad it looks bad. And that's what the general consensus is, even the native viewers are saying this is sub-par or mediocre at best. I am actually mind blown that people are saying it's because he focuses on consistent animation. IMO this chapter was alright. But if this show looked like this every episode I'd drop it instantly, it was definitely distracting at times. I don't have a particular style per se. I'm fine with anything as long as it looks consistent and not too horrible. But yeah. I would really hate to see this if it happens every episode from now on. |
| 「ボクは…確かに現実に絶望している。だけど、自分には絶望していない!! 今がつまらないか…楽しいのか…平凡なのか…決めているのは現実じゃない。決めるのはボクだ!!ボクが望めば不可能はない!!」-桂木桂馬 "True, I've given up on the real world. However, I haven't given up on myself!! The world doesn't get to decide whether my life is boring, fun, or ordinary because that's my decision to make!! As long as I have the will, nothing is impossible!!" -Katsuragi Keima |
copyrightRingo said: zagzee said: Apparently this is his style. Which looks awful and is completely inconsistent with the show. There's really no excusing it, nobody cares if it's your "style". If it looks bad it looks bad. And that's what the general consensus is, even the native viewers are saying this is sub-par or mediocre at best. I am actually mind blown that people are saying it's because he focuses on consistent animation. IMO this chapter was alright. But if this show looked like this every episode I'd drop it instantly, it was definitely distracting at times. I don't have a particular style per se. I'm fine with anything as long as it looks consistent and not too horrible. But yeah. I would really hate to see this if it happens every episode from now on. This is the only episode by him so we should be back to normal. It was watchable but distracting at times. |
copyrightRingo said: So you are telling me that this is a detailed animation style with proper movement and I am too ignorant to understand this. I get the point on sacrificing detail to put more emphasis on animation. Dororo's run from the ghoul babies is actually kinda cool. What I don't get is all of the scenes where characters are just standing and talking. If they aren't moving anyway, why not put a bit more detail in shots like these? Their lack of detail on the face is glaringly obvious, especially they are at mid-distance. A short in budget is literally a meme anyway. Animation studios don't actually run out of money mid-production (usually. There are cases). So what's the fuss at getting so triggered about it. Selectively picking one off-looking cut in the episode to support your point instead of actually forming a proper reply is pretty weak, especially when you're going to use that one shot to justify a generalization, and when I could easily match that with multiple great looking ones (first I'd have to learn how capture gifs though. What software do you use??). But no, I'd say there is nothing especially wrong with the animation there other than the unnatural and too large minimizization of Hyakki's character. If anything this shot, in part, illustrates my point - Kobayashi has at least put the effort into not relying on a continuous loop for the whole form for this sequence, it's drawn all the way through (another continuous shot like this is when the village leader gets kicked off the cliff). What's really wrong with this cut is the clash between the art and the animation. Clearly the art direction and animation direction had some discord here, the static, flat background really doesn't lend itself to Kobayashi's style, nor the static frame. My guess is this could be bad planning or bad implementation of the specified layout. I'm noticing you have a point of just about completely ignoring the entirety of my message, doing a half-admission of a fault and then narrowly and selectively focusing on something else... Why? Is there any point in me replying to you if you're going to ignore and not address 99% of it, and go off on your own thing? You were wrong about it being a budget issue. You were wrong about it being an animation issue. And while you decided to completely ignore it, you were wrong about his style not being apparent and coming through in both that ED and this episode. "A short in a budget is literally a meme anyway", I don't think you know what a meme is. You clearly originally said what you said not in a joke, but out of ignorance. Are you seriously going to tell me that this reads as a joke? "Did they run out of budget this episode? Everyone is kinda distorted. What happened to their faces? Something went very wrong with animation direction." You certainly didn't elaborate it as such with your reply, "It might not be a budget problem, but something did go very wrong with art direction." "What I don't get is all of the scenes where characters are just standing and talking. If they aren't moving anyway, why not put a bit more detail in shots like these? " Just about all the close-up shots of important characters or important mid range shots did. And for those mid-range shots that involve other characters, please find me one where there's no movement for any significant stretch of time, I'm going through the episode and I can't find any. "Their lack of detail on the face is glaringly obvious" Are you trying to tell say that it wasn't meant to be obvious here...? Do you really think they tried to hide that??? Again, it's very clearly a conscious choice in design. Animating is in large part about making sacrifices and choosing things to focus on, here the animation director decided to keep mid range designs more simple for the more unimportant scenes, focusing on doing the job it needed to do in them with more accurate and consistent movement (and I guess also focusing on more important things with the time it might have saved him). To me this wasn't an issue, because what is the huge need for those all relatively unexciting mid range shots to be detail heavy? I'd much rather natural movement, which makes it nice enough to watch and does the job required. This is at the end of the day animation, and it's that animation that gives these characters life. An example is that scene with Dororo sitting on the bench with the old lady and her granddaughter. It conveys what it needs to, well, relying on enough animation (also you can't tell me the girls little blob face isn't cute?). Even with their simplified designs it gets across their feelings and attitudes well enough, from the girl kicking her legs and emoting in a very clearly cheerful way, the grandma sitting idle and content, and then when the important lines come, the detail takes a step up, we get a close-up and we see some great facial animation. Maybe you disagree that it works well, but why are you finding it so difficult to realise that this is very clearly a design choice and style? One they're not trying to hide or are ashamed of in any way. The animation in this episode clearly is consistent—long distance shots to long distance shots, mid distance shots to mid distance shots and so forth, and it's rarely if anything expressive. And I think to further illustrate my point that this wasn't a "cheaply" animated episode, it's worth pointing out the amount of long static animation shots it contains, which are not easy and which most of, like that running scene, Dororo's running scene from the demons, and the village leader falling down the cliff (and others) don't even employ the usual techniques of using things like foliage or quick cuts to skimp out on the work. Also, the obvious complete lack of CGI too, which is especially noticeable when those horses appeared at the end. You don't have to be knowledgeable about animation at all to realise that isn't easy, even just that small bit with four/five in frame what with all those movements. The animation director does a good job with the animation. It's a shame you don't like his style. |
ZaugrApr 22, 2019 5:49 PM
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| Talking about shirobako and budget is nothing real. Better to look for interviews of the directors who say that the budget is practically the same for ALL the animes, what differentiates is the effort of the team and of being able to bring animators from outside working for little money. Although it is cruel to make the animators work exhausted so that the public is happy. |
KohikageApr 22, 2019 5:56 PM
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| Oh, so I wasn't dreaming when I thought the art looked a little different. xD Anyway, good episode again. Hyakkimaru got no chill, he'll stop at nothing to kill demons and get his body back. The final sequence in the lake was awesome, especially with the demon burning up. Holy shit, the scene where Hyakkimaru regained his spine. Damn, to think his spine was made out of cups or whatever for so long. |
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| What happened to the animation budget for this episode? It was so minimalist in some places and derpy proportions. |
MOMOpatisierre said: kater_tot said: I hate the way Hyakkimaru is being lately. He's been so cold and unfeeling since he met his family and he's not treating Dororo very nicely too. She's the only person in the world who loves and cares for him so he better start being nicer to her! I hope he will change after being separated with Dororo in this arc, and realized how important Dororo is to him In the end, it will be great Character Development Doror to become queen of emotions |
Dummisel said: Seriously what's wrong with these guys Edit: Glad I'm not the only one who noticed this part like wth haha I certainly noticed the animation this episode as well, especially the few seconds of him running up the hill looked like he was bloody possessed or something haha |
SwizzeApr 22, 2019 6:40 PM
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| Overall great story that really deserved better direction and art. Honestly, there's a lot to like about this episode, but the really weird direction and the lackluster art makes it hard to enjoy to the fullest. |
| You have shit taste, and then I have taste so shit it makes your taste look good |
| Okay what was going on with the animation? It looked really clunky, especially that scene where Hyakkimaru was following Sabame through the forest, and the fight scenes. Even the details on their faces looked really off, and the story seemed off. |
| Be happy with what you have to be happy with |
| I'm already aware that the animation in this episode was intentional but I'm sorry, it was shit. It's not only inconsistent with the rest of the series but also with the arc it belongs to, and the worst thing is that it's not only the animation but also the direction. Scenes that seem random with an awful pace and flow making them not have the impact they should have and in my case I couldn't get into the episode and the story it was trying to tell. I mean, what the hell did they do with the lady moth? She appeared at the end of the previous episode and gave a kind of sinister smile implying that she was manipulating the people of the village but in this episode they totally forgot about her and only appeared 10 seconds for Hyakki to burn her. The whole village was burned only because of the tower? Dororo spilling the oil had something to do with it or that scene was there just for the sake of it? The lord died for reasons? I don't know, I really like this series but this episode was a disaster imo, which is a shame because I liked the build up of the previous episode. |
SkyLETVApr 22, 2019 9:29 PM
copyrightRingo said: zagzee said: Apparently this is his style. Which looks awful and is completely inconsistent with the show. There's really no excusing it, nobody cares if it's your "style". If it looks bad it looks bad. And that's what the general consensus is, even the native viewers are saying this is sub-par or mediocre at best. I am actually mind blown that people are saying it's because he focuses on consistent animation. IMO this chapter was alright. But if this show looked like this every episode I'd drop it instantly, it was definitely distracting at times. I don't have a particular style per se. I'm fine with anything as long as it looks consistent and not too horrible. But yeah. I would really hate to see this if it happens every episode from now on. I got examples of the animation this ep too, from Sakuga no less. And they don't even include my favourite bits--the close-up facial animations. 1~ https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/75749 - in this notice how well Hyakki's and the boat's movement against the power of the waves is conveyed. 2~ https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/75751 3~ https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/75750 4~ https://www.sakugabooru.com/post/show/75752 And they didn't even CGI the flames. |
ZaugrApr 22, 2019 7:13 PM
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| Painful to watch. |
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| Okay this episode was one gigantic mess. Its like they made it last minute or something. The animation was really bad and it felt like so many scenes where removed to try and condense a two part episode into one. The transitions from one scene to another where a complete mess. We didn't even hear anything from the moth when the OP and the preview made it seem as if she would be far more developed than what we got. What a disaster all around. This is such a great anime so the last thing I want is for it to be ruined because of production issues. The studio should take a two week break and focus on actually finishing up the episodes. I just at least hope they fix this on the blu rays. |
| Mappa Falling apart in second half of a series once again. How the fuck does it happen every time.. |
| What a clusterfuck. His spinal chord was thread? That is full retard. The wet moth, hanging out in the lake for no reason, can not only fly but somehow can catch fire... So... the conclusion of this arc was it killed itself by setting itself on fire? Idiotic. They store all their rice off in the wood in a single building... nonsense. Their field which they are working still has crops... so they wouldn't starve in the winter. Their first reaction was to murder each other... wtf. This should get an award for the stupidest anime episode every made. I feel angry that something this bad could even be made. |
| This may be this director's preferred style, but seriously. It's clear that no one enjoyed that style for these types of shows. Why would you risk changing the art and animation so much this far into the show too? As an ED it can work, but this whole episode was painful to watch compared to the others. That final fight with the moth can barely even be considered a fight, there were so many random plot points just thrown in, and it almost feels like the VA scripts were changed to add in explanation dialogue after the episode was finished otherwise there would've been even more plotholes. And don't get me started on Hyakkimaru running up that hill because omg. Next episode looks like it's going to get back into the normal animation and I am so thankful for that. |
| What did I just watch? lol This is the first episode of Dororo I didn't like, animation and plot were weird as heck. |
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| Village seems a bit too peaceful... So Sabame made a pact with the demons to protect his village...and he sacrificed the kids to maintain that peace in the village... Sabame decides to antagonize Dororo and Hyakkimaru...at the expense of his village. Sorry man. You brought this on yourself... Hehe, Hyakkimaru turned his leg into a makeshift flamethrower. For killing the demon...he gets his spine back? Hmm...I wonder what changes now that he has a backbone... The world won't change for killing a few demons. Hyakkimaru don't care. Maybe because the village's destruction wouldn't have happened if Daigo never cursed his son in the first place... Dororo separates from Hyakkimaru...and happens to come across her archenemy Itachi. Dororo is in big trouble now, but it looks like Hyakkimaru does show concern for her, so he's definitely going to go after her to ensure that he does not lose the one person who has been with him for so long. Art and animation were different than usual this episode, but I didn't mind it as it keeps that old school look. |
TarotistApr 23, 2019 12:07 AM
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Zaugr said: Not really too fussed with the animation this episode, it was a bit weak at points but I feel it worked well enough to tell the story, and it had some nice art direction imo. Though I do think some of those choices with the art mistakenly came off as just bad/cheap animation to a lot of people... This episode's animation was directed by , Osamu Kobayashi who notable for having directed that first ED. And if you look back and compare, you can see a lot of it was just his unique, more experimental style came through in this episode—such as the use of slower, fade-out frame transitions, the unique and changing character designs to emphasize the setting or feeling (such as for Dororo when he was in the dimly lit cave, with only his simplified features coming through in the darkness of it), the simplified background designs that prioritize consistent movement over otherwise extraneous detail, the proper facial animation and movement (such as eyes and lips moving naturally, proper blushing, actual cheek movement, big expressive smiles or frowns, general expressiveness instead of just your standard idle-faced lip-smacking), and also minor stuff like Hyakki having noticeable, distinct eye bags (or eye shadow..?) to convey his current temperament. The man just has his own style that relies and uses different things to convey and illustrate, and where most animation directors sacrifice animation work and consistency for consistency in the art (that looks good for the screenshots), he does the opposite. He's traditional if anything. I'm more disappointed and annoyed with them offing the moth demon like that. She's in the OP, had that sick human form, and I thought she'd at least play a somewhat more prominent role than that... I think she had just one scene with one or two lines last episode in her human form, talking about how Hyakki's coming for her to reclaim his stolen parts and expressing anger and grief at losing one of her children, and then... that was it. We don't see her talk ever again, not to the village leader, to Hyakki (not even some kind of directed expression towards him), or even a reaction to the turn of events– just her getting offed in a 5 second fight, making that whole thing a rather pointless and wasteful setup. That's gotta be bad writing. I was really hoping for more... And not just because I have a thing for monster chicks:( Not matter how you justify it . It still looks bad to others and Osamu Kobayashi also did the storyboard for this episode so that bad writing thing it's most likely his doing |
Mattinator95Apr 23, 2019 1:11 AM
That's fair enough, but it doesn't make such statements about the budget running out or the animation being cheap or not a purposeful style/design choice any less wrong though. Which is what I was actually arguing... And for that bit you added... Okay? It's a safe guess that I knew that, and I clearly criticized the writing so I don't get your point there. I'm not acting as Osamu Kobayashi's personal defense force here lmao. I've never seen the guy's work before now, I'm just annoyed at some people being ignorant with their criticisms and calling out the wrong things, as I said. |
ZaugrApr 23, 2019 1:20 AM
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| Naruto episode 501 , Boruto next generation |
Zaugr said: -Many many things- The hero this ep discussion needed, not the one it deserved |
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| Glad to know I wasn't the only one who noticed the animation was off. It stuck out like a sore thumb but at the same time, it had its down charm, I guess? Reminds me of a certain style I saw in another series or Anime movie but I can't put my finger on it. Storywise,it felt all over the place. I don't feel like there was much closure. Who was that Mothra-like woman? They just showed her ONCE in the last episode in her female/woman form and now she disappears? She's part of the OP for crying out loud. You'd think she and Sabame would play a bigger role. We don't even know what happened to Sabame. Did the villagers drown him or did he kill himself? What? I still liked it despite everything, it's one of the few shows I look forward to every week. The deformed baby making a comeback was my favorite part. |
| 臭い- |
| Is it just me or is the animation quality really bad here, like seriously bad. Especially when Hyakkimaru was running through the forest stalking Sabame, that scene stood out like a sore thumb. |
| ahhh this ep sure had the worst animation in the whole series, it gave me eye cancer. i think they axed budged of this one for next ep. hope they make it better on blurays/DVDs |
 𝓜𝔂𝓐𝓷𝓲𝓶𝓮𝓛𝓲𝓼𝓽 The inner sea of the planet. The platform of the watchtower. From the edge of paradise you shall hear my words. Your story shall be full of blessings. ━Let only those without sin pass. "Garden of Avalon"! |
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