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| That amazing twist from "Goku destroys 11 universes" to "Goku saves 1 universe" |
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| Lol the fact that Universe 7 is the second weakest universe in all 12 universe is actually blow up my mind. So according to Grand Priest's line about the power levels, is this mean the Universe 6 is the third weakest universe in all 12 universe since both Goku and Vegeta (And Piccolo as well since he is able to defeated Frost) are defeated the universe 6 warriors except Hit in Universe 6 Saga. Edit: Hm... it seem like Gowasu will die for a third time (Fourth time if you count the Manga) after the Tournament of Power was finished, Gowasu is literally a second and Surpreme Kai version Krillin lol. |
MahiaErebeaNegiFeb 26, 2017 7:55 AM
Stark700 said: THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Damn, this Lavender guy is pretty vicious. Didn't even waste time at all to attack Gohan, especially his face and eyes. Gohan going Super Saiyan was definitely expected tbh. The fight was intense, really good momentum this episode imo from start to finish without any pauses. A really close fight imo between them. Goku to fight next. HYPE. well obviously it was expected, they showed it in the episode preview last week rofl |
| Nice to see gohan getting stronger (again) But considering dog guys 2 had already problems with him in his base form, I expected his SSJ Kamehameha to erase him. |
| "This emotion is mine alone. It is for Madoka alone." - Homura or how I would descripe Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica. |
Plot twist: Goku is saving the universe. |
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| Enjoyed this episode a lot because of getting to see Gohan fighting again and it was a relatively good fight. I'd consider him the winner too since he did stand up but the tie makes it more interesting so we get to see the third fight. The news we got in this was also good as well but it made me chuckle because now it makes Goku look like the savior of one universe like others have mentioned. Plus maybe now I won't get attached to a new character, only for them to be erased. |
MahiaErebeaNegi said: Lol the fact that Universe 7 is the second weakest universe in all 12 universe is actually blow up my mind. So according to Grand Priest's line about the power levels, is this mean the Universe 6 is the third weakest universe in all 12 universe since both Goku and Vegeta (And Piccolo as well since he is able to defeated Frost) are defeated the universe 6 warriors except Hit in Universe 6 Saga. Edit: Hm... it seem like Gowasu will die for a third time (Fourth time if you count the Manga) after the Tournament of Power was finished, Gowasu is literally a second and Surpreme Kai version Krillin lol. It never said U7 is second weakest. It only said their mortal level is 2nd from the bottom |
| It was a pretty decent episode. Liked the fight, but nothing really too special. |
| This ring a bell? LOL |
Gohan is going to be the next Yamcha...? |
| Toei never forgets to meme |
| Good episode. I suppose we can all now stop talking crap about Goku as universe 7 was going to be erased anyway. This while tournament gives them a chance to escape from such fate. |
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| We all know Gohan won that fight, but oh well he did good in his return match. He's gotten stronger than when he was back in RoF, back there he could barely hold SSJ. And what a revelation indeed. That U9 Kai's expression when he hears U9 is the weakest lol |
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| They said the average mortal power level of the Universe 7 is 3.18, so I guess Goku and Vegeta are somewhat stronger alone than the other Universes considering that they are alot more powerful than the other mortals in U7. Just my opinion tho. |
| So why not use the Dragon Balls, Namekian Dragon Balls or even the Super Dragon Balls to bring back planet Vegeta and Namek? I'm pretty sure that would greatly raise U7's mortal level. If the Saiyans or Namekians colonized half or even a quarter of the universe then they wouldn't even been considered as a weak universe. Imagine those races in the trillions spread out all over the universe. It's a damn shame none of them want to bring back planet Vegeta and Namek. |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
| Loved Every Second Of This Episode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Janethan23 said: So why not use the Dragon Balls, Namekian Dragon Balls or even the Super Dragon Balls to bring back planet Vegeta and Namek? I'm pretty sure that would greatly raise U7's mortal level. If the Saiyans or Namekians colonized half or even a quarter of the universe then they wouldn't even been considered as a weak universe. Imagine those races in the trillions spread out all over the universe. It's a damn shame none of them want to bring back planet Vegeta and Namek. Wait...why bring back Namek, if New Namek exist? |
| "The future is always blank. Only your willpower can leave footsteps there." "Ruling over death means ruling over life. Death is the climax of life. To have the best death, you must honor life." |
FrozenRaider said: Janethan23 said: So why not use the Dragon Balls, Namekian Dragon Balls or even the Super Dragon Balls to bring back planet Vegeta and Namek? I'm pretty sure that would greatly raise U7's mortal level. If the Saiyans or Namekians colonized half or even a quarter of the universe then they wouldn't even been considered as a weak universe. Imagine those races in the trillions spread out all over the universe. It's a damn shame none of them want to bring back planet Vegeta and Namek. Wait...why bring back Namek, if New Namek exist? Isn't New Namek a colonized planet of refugees after the Freeza arc? |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
Janethan23 said: FrozenRaider said: Wait...why bring back Namek, if New Namek exist? Isn't New Namek a colonized planet of refugees after the Freeza arc? Kinda. New Namek was a planet created by Shenron to house the entirety of the Namekian race. All of the Namekians were revived after Freeza's death aside from a single village that Vegeta wiped out. |
MahiaErebeaNegi said: Lol the fact that Universe 7 is the second weakest universe in all 12 universe is actually blow up my mind. So according to Grand Priest's line about the power levels, is this mean the Universe 6 is the third weakest universe in all 12 universe since both Goku and Vegeta (And Piccolo as well since he is able to defeated Frost) are defeated the universe 6 warriors except Hit in Universe 6 Saga. Edit: Hm... it seem like Gowasu will die for a third time (Fourth time if you count the Manga) after the Tournament of Power was finished, Gowasu is literally a second and Surpreme Kai version Krillin lol. Again it not about power level. It the mortal ratio. Meaning Universe 7 is the second lowest because it has the second lowest living mortals. Which is why this match is being held to eliminate them because they are dead weight Universes. And to prove my point. Think back, Beerus went to sleep after telling Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta. Before then The Saiyans and Frieza Army were killing mortals and destroying planets left and right. On top of that Kid Buu Universe 7 killing machine. Now in this episode Beerus was mad at the Supreme Kai for not taking action and monitoring the mortal ways of living. Supreme Kai countered him by saying he shouldn't had been asleep all this time. Which also sums up why Zamasu did what he did. It about mortal live/death ratio not power level. If it was about power level there would be no need to hold the Tournament of Power. |
| Oh boy how long have I waited for this moment. To see not the normal friendly Gohan but rather the serious and strong Gohan which a lot of people loved back in DBZ :) The fight was really good. This Lavender guy was a strong opponent with all these poison attacks Gohan had a hard time. But like Goku said, it's a good training for Gohan and I think now Gohan has his will to fight and to get stronger back. Interesting to hear that there is a scale for every universe and the universe 7 and 9 are the lowest of all. Beerus reaction was priceless. So far I'm in absolute love with this arc. I hope they keep this level up. Looking forward for the next episode. Finally we will see Goku fight. His opponent also seems pretty strong so I'm sure this will also be a good fight. |
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Otaku_DJK1NG said: MahiaErebeaNegi said: Lol the fact that Universe 7 is the second weakest universe in all 12 universe is actually blow up my mind. So according to Grand Priest's line about the power levels, is this mean the Universe 6 is the third weakest universe in all 12 universe since both Goku and Vegeta (And Piccolo as well since he is able to defeated Frost) are defeated the universe 6 warriors except Hit in Universe 6 Saga. Edit: Hm... it seem like Gowasu will die for a third time (Fourth time if you count the Manga) after the Tournament of Power was finished, Gowasu is literally a second and Surpreme Kai version Krillin lol. Again it not about power level. It the mortal ratio. Meaning Universe 7 is the second lowest because it has the second lowest living mortals. Which is why this match is being held to eliminate them because they are dead weight Universes. And to prove my point. Think back, Beerus went to sleep after telling Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta. Before then The Saiyans and Frieza Army were killing mortals and destroying planets left and right. On top of that Kid Buu Universe 7 killing machine. Now in this episode Beerus was mad at the Supreme Kai for not taking action and monitoring the mortal ways of living. Supreme Kai countered him by saying he shouldn't had been asleep all this time. Which also sums up why Zamasu did what he did. It about mortal live/death ratio not power level. If it was about power level there would be no need to hold the Tournament of Power. Actually I think the Tournament of Power was just to entertain Zeno. He doesn't really care who is stronger anyway. Just wanted some entertainment. So as a reward for satisfying Zeno (by giving a good fight to the other universe), it is spared from being erased. Otherwise, they wouldn't really put in a good effort to fight if they knew that they are going to be erased despite winning the tournament. I still believe mortal level is the average power level of all mortals in the universe though. Even if Universe 7 has a very low index, it could be due to the power level in U7 are at two ends of the spectrum. Beerus job is to remove weak planets while Kaioshin is to strengthen the planets as much as possible. However in Universe 7, Beerus is always sleeping and relying on villains to destroy other planets (which is so much slower compared to doing it himself, since he can destroy a planet within seconds), while Kaioshin always believes and wants the "mortal themselves to develop their planet levels on their own" (quoted from Beerus in this episode). I think with this definition of mortal level, it gives us an idea, the purpose as to why Zeno created these two gods. If your definition is true, then after what Beerus has said, I guess Kaioshin is supposedly to be a god of... fertility? XD But then again, I'm not saying that your analogy is flawed though, because what you're saying does makes sense too. It can mean either way, since the show did not directly state the definition of it. It's just that I prefer to infer it this way. Just my 2cents =) Cheers. Edit: Terrible English everywhere HAHA |
jr_paperbagFeb 26, 2017 10:55 PM
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xahjun said: Otaku_DJK1NG said: Again it not about power level. It the mortal ratio. Meaning Universe 7 is the second lowest because it has the second lowest living mortals. Which is why this match is being held to eliminate them because they are dead weight Universes. And to prove my point. Think back, Beerus went to sleep after telling Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta. Before then The Saiyans and Frieza Army were killing mortals and destroying planets left and right. On top of that Kid Buu Universe 7 killing machine. Now in this episode Beerus was mad at the Supreme Kai for not taking action and monitoring the mortal ways of living. Supreme Kai countered him by saying he shouldn't had been asleep all this time. Which also sums up why Zamasu did what he did. It about mortal live/death ratio not power level. If it was about power level there would be no need to hold the Tournament of Power. Actually I think the Tournament of Power was just to entertain Zeno. He doesn't really care who is stronger anyway. Just wanted some entertainment. So as a reward for satisfying Zeno (by giving a good fight to the other universe), it is spared from being erased. Otherwise, they wouldn't really put in a good effort to fight if they knew that they are going to be erased despite winning the tournament. I still believe mortal level is the average power level of all mortals in the universe though. Even if Universe 7 has a very low index, it could be due to the power level in U7 are at two ends of the spectrum. Beerus job is to remove weak planets while Kaioshin is to strengthen the planets as much as possible. However in Universe 7, Beerus is always sleeping and relying on villains to destroy other planets (which is so much slower compared to doing it himself, since he can destroy a planet within seconds), while Kaioshin always believes and wants the "mortal themselves to develop their planet levels on their own" (quoted from Beerus in this episode). I think with this definition of mortal level, it gives us an idea, the purpose as to why Zeno created these two gods. If your definition is true, then after what Beerus has said, I guess Kaioshin is supposedly to be a god of... fertility? XD But then again, I'm not saying that your analogy is flawed though, because what you're saying does makes sense too. It can mean either way, since the show did not directly state the definition of it. It's just that I prefer to infer it this way. Just my 2cents =) Cheers. Edit: Terrible English everywhere HAHA I'm just speculating here, of course, but my impression was that the mortal level wasn't so much the power level or the amount of mortals, but the development of mortals as civilizations. Whether that's in terms of a certain morality/mindset that they want to impose, or in terms of understanding and creation (i.e., science, philosophy, art, etc.), I don't know. The authoritarian nature of forcing a people to act a certain way seems in line with how Zeno and the High Priest are being portrayed, though. In this case, a universe could have a high rating with fewer and weaker mortals if those mortals are highly developed (in either way I posed earlier), and that the four exempt universes pass those standards. The reason one of the lower universes would be spared, then, would be by a special standard. That standard is simply how well they entertain Zeno. In other words, the four exempt universes are the higher social classes allowed the live by the King, and the winner of the tournament would be a peasant who acts as the jester by fighting for the King's amusement. Again, this is just speculation, and this may not (and probably is not) how it works in the show, since this is just a shounen battle anime. |
Desutroya said: xahjun said: Actually I think the Tournament of Power was just to entertain Zeno. He doesn't really care who is stronger anyway. Just wanted some entertainment. So as a reward for satisfying Zeno (by giving a good fight to the other universe), it is spared from being erased. Otherwise, they wouldn't really put in a good effort to fight if they knew that they are going to be erased despite winning the tournament. I still believe mortal level is the average power level of all mortals in the universe though. Even if Universe 7 has a very low index, it could be due to the power level in U7 are at two ends of the spectrum. Beerus job is to remove weak planets while Kaioshin is to strengthen the planets as much as possible. However in Universe 7, Beerus is always sleeping and relying on villains to destroy other planets (which is so much slower compared to doing it himself, since he can destroy a planet within seconds), while Kaioshin always believes and wants the "mortal themselves to develop their planet levels on their own" (quoted from Beerus in this episode). I think with this definition of mortal level, it gives us an idea, the purpose as to why Zeno created these two gods. If your definition is true, then after what Beerus has said, I guess Kaioshin is supposedly to be a god of... fertility? XD But then again, I'm not saying that your analogy is flawed though, because what you're saying does makes sense too. It can mean either way, since the show did not directly state the definition of it. It's just that I prefer to infer it this way. Just my 2cents =) Cheers. Edit: Terrible English everywhere HAHA I'm just speculating here, of course, but my impression was that the mortal level wasn't so much the power level or the amount of mortals, but the development of mortals as civilizations. Whether that's in terms of a certain morality/mindset that they want to impose, or in terms of understanding and creation (i.e., science, philosophy, art, etc.), I don't know. The authoritarian nature of forcing a people to act a certain way seems in line with how Zeno and the High Priest are being portrayed, though. In this case, a universe could have a high rating with fewer and weaker mortals if those mortals are highly developed (in either way I posed earlier), and that the four exempt universes pass those standards. The reason one of the lower universes would be spared, then, would be by a special standard. That standard is simply how well they entertain Zeno. In other words, the four exempt universes are the higher social classes allowed the live by the King, and the winner of the tournament would be a peasant who acts as the jester by fighting for the King's amusement. Again, this is just speculation, and this may not (and probably is not) how it works in the show, since this is just a shounen battle anime. And how can the civilization grow if the mortals are being killed left and right, always causing destruction, destroying planets and not protecting their worlds. |
Otaku_DJK1NG said: Desutroya said: I'm just speculating here, of course, but my impression was that the mortal level wasn't so much the power level or the amount of mortals, but the development of mortals as civilizations. Whether that's in terms of a certain morality/mindset that they want to impose, or in terms of understanding and creation (i.e., science, philosophy, art, etc.), I don't know. The authoritarian nature of forcing a people to act a certain way seems in line with how Zeno and the High Priest are being portrayed, though. In this case, a universe could have a high rating with fewer and weaker mortals if those mortals are highly developed (in either way I posed earlier), and that the four exempt universes pass those standards. The reason one of the lower universes would be spared, then, would be by a special standard. That standard is simply how well they entertain Zeno. In other words, the four exempt universes are the higher social classes allowed the live by the King, and the winner of the tournament would be a peasant who acts as the jester by fighting for the King's amusement. Again, this is just speculation, and this may not (and probably is not) how it works in the show, since this is just a shounen battle anime. And how can the civilization grow if the mortals are being killed left and right, always causing destruction, destroying planets and not protecting their worlds. By the way Beerus was talking to the Supreme Kai, it seems that neither did their job very well or very often (Beerus slept, Supreme Kai left mortals to their own devices). It seems their jobs are to (Beerus) destroy those mortals with lower mortal levels, thus ridding their universe of the mortals who lower the average, and (Supreme Kai) give guidance towards those who already do well, thus further boosting the mortal levels being averaged. If you think about it mathematically, Beerus lowers the denominator in the averaging (lower population = lower number to divide by) and Supreme Kai increases the numerator (greater level = greater values in the sum of levels), both contributing a net increase in the average mortal level. |
Joido said: ( . . . ) Although, taking into account the context in which mortal levels were mentioned: beings of the lowest mortal level rank putting on a good fight, surprising Zeno; Grand Priest responding "surely you can tell" upon their questioning who was ranked below U7 — if it does in fact imply a correlation to power — then that would be the perfect setup for a future arc with potentially stronger opponents for Goku & co. to face. Not to mention power serving as the measurement for the participants in a tournament of power (or what would be a battle of the weak to prove they have power), rather than quality of life, makes the most sense. (Note: The dots at the beginning of the quote are to isolate the part I'm responding to.) I don't think Zeno even knew about fighting. If he did, he wouldn't be as entertained by the tournament, since he'd already see that in the exempt universes. This, along with my idea that they're only sparing a single under-performing universe which satisfies a different standard (to give Zeno something to watch) than the typical "average mortal level" standard suggests that power level isn't what is being measured, if I'm not mistaken in the way I interpreted some of dialogue. The "surely you can tell" by the Grand Priest can also be taken to mean that it's obvious that they'd choose the two lowest universes to prove that even they may still have a use that's not the standard "average mortal level" metric. By showing that the two lowest universes can be interesting to Zeno, it makes it seem less far-fetched for the other universes to also have merit in continuing to exist. But, Zeno being Zeno, still doesn't like having so many universes, so Zeno proposes that the universe which best piques Zeno's interest will be the sole survivor. As of this point, Zeno only knows fighting to be fun to watch, so that's how it's being decided. In fact, a possible resolution for this arc could be finding what the losing universes are capable of doing to keep Zeno busy, which then ends with all of the lower universes playing their unique roles to survive. But, again, I do accept that this is a battle anime, and so this analysis should be taken with a spoonful of salt. At the end of the day, flashy battles are what we're watching Dragon Ball for, not the social commentary or political analogies. |
| Gohan won but it was still a tie...man that was playing plain straight dirty |
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SSJ4Life said: Otaku_DJK1NG said: Beerus sleeping through everything after telling Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta Beerus never told Frieza to destroy planet Vegeta, he only allowed it. The English and Spanish translation f*cked that up. ibraheem234 said: Gohan won but it was still a tie... In your dreams. By tournament rules it was a tie, that's only fair. If it wasn't by tournament rules, Gohan would've lost. Gohan was still the last man standing, after they both were on the ground, Gohan woke up and that should be enough to make him the winner but the grand priest was 2 slow i think. |
| Didn't see it for myself that it would end with a draw. That was totally unexpected. But it was quite a intense fight. I don't know how I should feel with the ending blow. It were just ok. They could end the finishing blow much more intense. But the fight were quite good, so I am satisfied. Hahha, I think everybody took the erasing part very hard expect for Goku. That guy, so carefree that it makes me laugh everytime. xD Next week it's gonna be Goku against the strongest dude in universe 9 (the alpha one I guess xD). |
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I do see what you meant. I think your analysis is really interesting too, and it gives me a new perspective to look from as well. I do understand that this anime isn't supposed to be looked into such details, especially of something minor. However sometimes it's cool to look at a sensible perspective that I'll never thought of. Thanks for sharing =) |
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xahjun said: I do see what you meant. I think your analysis is really interesting too, and it gives me a new perspective to look from as well. I do understand that this anime isn't supposed to be looked into such details, especially of something minor. However sometimes it's cool to look at a sensible perspective that I'll never thought of. Thanks for sharing =) I think we're thinking too much into this. From my standpoint is that every universe is judged according to their strength. To me that means their ability to fight plain and simple. We could theorize all sorts of ways a universe can be considered strong; technology, wealth, idiology, population etc. Let's take into consideration that Akira Toriyama has been consistent about strength through fighting either by tournaments or crisis it's always about being able to fight or to put it eloquently: overcoming adversity through fighting. My take on Beerus and Kaoshin's argument was that they didn't do their duties to advice the entire universe to be united and powerful. If you recall the episodes wherein Beerus was "terrorizing and destroying" planets you would notice that mostly those planets were more like planet Vegeta that were savage and barbaric whose only purpose was to conquer, plunder and enslave other planets. Beerus seems to weed out the undesirable civilizations while Kaoshin was supposed to enlighten, teach and train. A great proof of that is the existence of Kaos under him (North, South, East and West) who pick exceptional martial artists to be trained at a higher level. |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
Only I saw this reference in the episode? |
| wow some heavy revelations at the end there |
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| Let's not forget about the fact Beerus intended to destroy Freeza after he woke up. Beerus went into his long slumber after giving Freeza the go signal to wreck havoc. |
| "Manga readers are annoying, all they do is complain or spoil the anime we discuss in an anime forum. They should really do their whining at manga forums. USERS ON MY IGNORED LIST: RayReynolds - SSL443 - Dr4kon - Nerdanimefan1992 - ToTheMountains - Fiveskies To add users to the Ignore list: (1) Go to Account settings (2) Click Forum tab and toggle down (3) Type or paste user name on entry box (4) Click Add and you're done. Problem solved, you'll never have to see someone trolling ever again because their post will be closed/collapsed. |
| Gohan's fight was a draw...lame but there are many things that seems to be unfair...Why are angels exempted from the universe erasure? and Universes with higher mortal rate is also excluded from the Erasure!? 4/5. |
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| How retarded is this King of All? 7 > 9 makes sense, but 7 < 6? They already fought in a tournament and won lol |
| Goku done fucked up |
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| The animation in the fights has been really good, what the hell? Toei is putting an effort? That's new. |
"At some point, I stopped hoping." |
| This SSJ Gohan thing is so dumb... at least the fight was funny. 3/5 Fights with less waves of ki are always welcomed. |
| Yes yes yessss finally Gohan being relevant again in this thing! I had honestly enough with the permanent humiliation he had being suffering so far, both in terms of physical strength and participation in the narrative. |
| Man this fight was intense. Glad to see that Gohan still has his fighting sense. |
| even father-in-law was more concerned about Gohan than his own dad. sh*tty father award again plus i dislike they make Goku the good guy again by that cheap twist; he'll never learn the consequences of his superdumb actions... |
FrigyesurOct 29, 2017 4:00 AM
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