Descending Stories
DO NOT discuss the source material beyond this episode. If you want to discuss future events or theories, please use separate threads.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
DO NOT ask where to watch/download this episode or give links to copyrighted, non-fair use material.
DO NOT troll/bait/harass/abuse other users for liking or disliking the series/characters.
DO read the Anime Discussion Rules and Site & Forum Guidelines.
Albi-kun said: But it was against himself too. He sacrificed everything and everyone for his Rakugo. It's not like it just so happened they went separate ways. You can't generalize real life situations Says who? Kiku has always been the aloof type, I'm not surprised in the least that he isn't interested in taking a wife or living with friends, or that he's so passionate for rakugo that he wants nothing else. Japanese media, if you observe it a bit, tends to hammer down this 'you can't be alone after all!1!!' idea. How many stories of different loners in different genres we know who come to UNDERSTAND some meaning of Love/Friendship and change their ways? I'm pretty much sure it's another cultural enforcement here. But the truth is, for some people all this stuff is just not that natural. |
| We have to keep our dreams alive. Something to look forward to. |
AimeeKite said: Albi-kun said: But it was against himself too. He sacrificed everything and everyone for his Rakugo. It's not like it just so happened they went separate ways. You can't generalize real life situations Says who? Kiku has always been the aloof type, I'm not surprised in the least that he isn't interested in taking a wife or living with friends, or that he's so passionate for rakugo that he wants nothing else. Japanese media, if you observe it a bit, tends to hammer down this 'you can't be alone after all!1!!' idea. How many stories of different loners in different genres we know who come to UNDERSTAND some meaning of Love/Friendship and change their ways? I'm pretty much sure it's another cultural enforcement here. But the truth is, for some people all this stuff is just not that natural. Yeah, the whole 'aloof and reserved individual who starts off believing and claiming that they're content with being occupied in their own business and can do without friendship/love/family but then eventually succumbs to and realises the need for human companionship' is a 'trope' (for lack of a better word) that plays out in varying degrees in fiction. It seems to have been derived from the (almost) universal (and debatable) notion that man is essentially a social being who all said and done cannot function in society in total isolation and inevitably needs some semblance of fellowship and human sympathy to live a fulfilling life. And as such, I'd say that the 'trope' is not restricted to Japanese media but that it permeates works of fiction produced across space, time and cultures. It's probably one of the most common ways that writers have at their disposal to flesh out or lend some development to those characters who belong to the "self-obsessed and aloof" archetype. Take Sherlock from Sherlock (duh), Darcy from Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice or any of those typical Korean drama male leads, for instance. In several cases, the 'transition' is handled rather sloppily; it's like the character who has hitherto denied having cared much about the people around them wakes up one fine day and realises how much they're actually in love with that person next door or how they can't do anymore without their family by their side… or you get the drift. And then the next thing we know is that they've undergone 180 degree change, which becomes a bit difficult to buy. I'm glad that's not the case with this anime. The writer here has handled Kiku's gradual development subtly and in as believable a manner as possible. |
_Rika said: Yeah, the whole 'aloof and reserved individual who starts off believing and claiming that they're content with being occupied in their own business and can do without friendship/love/family but then eventually succumbs to and realises the need for human companionship' is a 'trope' (for lack of a better word) that plays out in varying degrees in fiction. It seems to have been derived from the (almost) universal (and debatable) notion that man is essentially a social being who all said and done cannot function in society in total isolation and inevitably needs some semblance of fellowship and human sympathy to live a fulfilling life. And as such, I'd say that the 'trope' is not restricted to Japanese media but that it permeates works of fiction produced across space, time and cultures. It's probably one of the most common ways that writers have at their disposal to flesh out or lend some development to those characters who belong to the "self-obsessed and aloof" archetype. Take Sherlock from Sherlock (duh), Darcy from Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice or any of those typical Korean drama male leads, for instance. In several cases, the 'transition' is handled rather sloppily; it's like the character who has hitherto denied having cared much about the people around them wakes up one fine day and realises how much they're actually in love with that person next door or how they can't do anymore without their family by their side… or you get the drift. And then the next thing we know is that they've undergone 180 degree change, which becomes a bit difficult to buy. I'm glad that's not the case with this anime. The writer here has handled Kiku's gradual development subtly and in as believable a manner as possible. Well-written. Nevertheless, I still don't believe that Kiku should be held responsible for Yuri's obsession with him or for Sukeroku's apparent inability to take care of himself. |
| We have to keep our dreams alive. Something to look forward to. |
AimeeKite said: _Rika said: Yeah, the whole 'aloof and reserved individual who starts off believing and claiming that they're content with being occupied in their own business and can do without friendship/love/family but then eventually succumbs to and realises the need for human companionship' is a 'trope' (for lack of a better word) that plays out in varying degrees in fiction. It seems to have been derived from the (almost) universal (and debatable) notion that man is essentially a social being who all said and done cannot function in society in total isolation and inevitably needs some semblance of fellowship and human sympathy to live a fulfilling life. And as such, I'd say that the 'trope' is not restricted to Japanese media but that it permeates works of fiction produced across space, time and cultures. It's probably one of the most common ways that writers have at their disposal to flesh out or lend some development to those characters who belong to the "self-obsessed and aloof" archetype. Take Sherlock from Sherlock (duh), Darcy from Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice or any of those typical Korean drama male leads, for instance. In several cases, the 'transition' is handled rather sloppily; it's like the character who has hitherto denied having cared much about the people around them wakes up one fine day and realises how much they're actually in love with that person next door or how they can't do anymore without their family by their side… or you get the drift. And then the next thing we know is that they've undergone 180 degree change, which becomes a bit difficult to buy. I'm glad that's not the case with this anime. The writer here has handled Kiku's gradual development subtly and in as believable a manner as possible. Well-written. Nevertheless, I still don't believe that Kiku should be held responsible for Yuri's obsession with him or for Sukeroku's apparent inability to take care of himself. Neither do I. I don't believe Kiku should be labelled as the sole 'bad guy' just because he gave his career a preference over love, friendship and the like. I can empathise with his choice and actions. If I were in his place I'd have probably done the same. Nor would I place the blame entirely at Miyokichi's doorstep. If I were in her place, I'd have probably felt the same way she does upon being thrown to the wayside by that one person I really want to be with or at least I believe I want to. I feel all these characters are justified to an extent in acting the way they do, in view of their nature and circumstances. They've made their respective choices and now they're reaping the consequences. If blame we must, then arguably they're all equally culpable for the mess they're in. None of them is inherently right or wrong. There's no black/white dichotomy here. And that's what make these characters great, in my opinion. |
| such drama overload. I really didn't care lol. everybody is so stupid.... I have a feeling I watched TV-show for teens. |
| Looks like I have an unpopular opinion here... I was outraged and disappointed by that death scene. I guess that's because I disliked Miyokichi from the very beginning, and despite trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, then she went and did all of THIS. Yes, I believe Bon was harsh when he dumped her. However, that doesn't AT ALL excuse her sleeping with Shin just because, having a kid just because, abandoning both of them at a whim, running away from her responsibilities and fucking around with other men, coming back onto Bon after all this time, trying to KILL Bon after all this time, and then getting Shin killed. I couldn't at all believe that Shin and Miyokichi loved each other all this time and that Miyokichi was just waiting for an apology. What an awful character. I found this anime mildly entertaining, but she ruined it for me ever since she first showed up. |
psychoalchemistMar 28, 2016 8:31 AM
 |
AimeeKite said: Albi-kun said: But it was against himself too. He sacrificed everything and everyone for his Rakugo. It's not like it just so happened they went separate ways. You can't generalize real life situations Says who? Kiku has always been the aloof type, I'm not surprised in the least that he isn't interested in taking a wife or living with friends, or that he's so passionate for rakugo that he wants nothing else. Japanese media, if you observe it a bit, tends to hammer down this 'you can't be alone after all!1!!' idea. How many stories of different loners in different genres we know who come to UNDERSTAND some meaning of Love/Friendship and change their ways? I'm pretty much sure it's another cultural enforcement here. But the truth is, for some people all this stuff is just not that natural. Kiku always had feelings for those two. They just got overshadowed by his ambitions. It's not always about choosing one thing or the other. There can be other solutions. He didn't get with Miyokichi only because of his master and prejudice. I'm not saying he's completely at fault though. I like his character. |
Albi-kunMar 28, 2016 11:23 AM
| what an amazing episode and what an amazing anime it's definitely my favorite anime of the season, i'm really thinking to give it 10/10 it's amazing how i can't take off my eyes of the screen while they are making the Rakugo i'm excited for the last episode |
 Be as free as you can be. |
| IT finally happened and I didn't really care at all. Last ep was 5/5 this ep was maybe 3/5. I don't like Miyokichi so she can die for all I care, she was going down alone but Shin had to die because...? Like, he has a daughter does he not care for her at all? Did he think he was saving Miyokichi when he leapt for her? This anime is p dramatic but this was a bit much, like Kiku licking her tears?? and Shin busting in and then he starts crying and man I stopped caring way before that. Anyway overall I like this anime but this ep was a let down. |
 |
Yes, I believe Bon was harsh when he dumped her. However, that doesn't AT ALL excuse her sleeping with Shin just because, having a kid just because, abandoning both of them at a whim, running away from her responsibilities and fucking around with other men, coming back onto Bon after all this time, trying to KILL Bon after all this time, and then getting Shin killed. I don't like Miyokichi either, but I think this is an oversimplification. Miyokichi found someone after Bon and moved on. She got pregnant and got married and moved so they could raise their kid together in the country. Shin continued drinking and bumming around and the only kind of job he would get was rakugo related ones, which probably didn't make a ton of money. Miyokichi felt like she didn't have a choice but to continue to sleep with people for money, something she had wanted to stop doing and had hoped to leave behind once she got married. Now she had to do it not only to survive herself but to keep two other mouths fed. It got stressful and she cracked under pressure and fled. Of course this doesn't excuse her, especially not what she did in the hotel. But I don't think the responsibility for everything negative that happened in her relationship with Shin falls only on her shoulders. |
  |
| Another phenomenal episode evoking many feelings and emotions especially towards that ending. When the credits start showing up 3/4 of the episode - you know you got an amazing episode (though every episode has been either great or/and amazing so far tbh lol). Definitely the best anime this season easily. Also great Kiku finally realised there is more to life than just rakugo and knows his mistakes from the past. Was really nice to see Shin being able to do rakugo again...but damn he's gone now. |
 Women are so incomprehensible... Right after the protagonist duo was starting to get back on track, considering Shin's performance and all that. As a punishment, however, something like this is eerily appropriate. Looking forward to the finale. |
| Miyokichi was just about to go back and fix everything with Shin but things went wrong! I hope we get a second season |
 |
| Damn.....that was an amazing episode...... |
 |
| NOOOOOOOOOO T_________T Mikyokichi ruined everything |
| I almost started clapping with the audience when Shin was done his show, it was a great performance. I like how it tied in somewhat with this life and almost felt like It would have led up to that (him giving up something he loves in order to provide for his family) but as we know his and Miyokichi's death were bound to happen. I'm not too sure I like how it ended though, it felt more like an accident then what was implied. Still though I can see why Kiku blames himself for Shin's death. Great episode and a great series. 1 more episode and it's all over QQ |
THIS. I totally wasn't expecting that end. I knew and everyone else knew that they were going to die but to die in that manner? Damn. No wonder Konatsu thought Kiku killed her parents. Personally, I think the most surprising thing was finding out Sukeroku loved Miyokichi after all. I seriously thought they were just using each other because they both loved Kiku in some way and they sought comfort in each other's arms. |
| 臭い- |
purpletoddy said: Shin jumped after her when she fell off. It's not her fault that happened. He got himself killed. I disagree. You're right that he jumped after her. But he only had to jump after her because she was on that ledge in the first place. And why was she on that ledge? Because she was trying to get Bon to throw away his entire life (literally) for her. He clearly didn't want to, and yet she was trying to force him to kill himself. It's because of that that they were on the ledge in the first place, and that's why she fell. |
|
| The fuck? That was just... I mean we knew he'd die somehow from the beginning since he was dead in episode 1 so I was just waiting to find out how but... this was just stupid. First of all Yurie is behaving like a total whore and I was waiting for Yakumo to punch her in the face and get a grip on herself, but instead he seemingly falls for her easy temptation? Then she suddenly goes yandere and suggests a double suicide out of nowhere, and finally Sukeroku dies just by accident in that kind of silly way when trying to save her. I just... can't take this seriously. There are so many things wrong with this scene Just disappointed |
  |
| As much as I like this show, this death just felt...quite stupid imo, the whole death/suicide and the balcony breaking etc was just badly executed...well whatever I guess. First half of this ep was really good though. |
 |
| Sukeroku's last rakugo was true masterpiece, all those feelz! Best episode so far! |
| The emotions in the episode sent my tears into overdrive. I wanted Miyokichi to die after all of the horrible things she said about Shin and Konatsu. |
 |
| That Rakugo by Sukeroku was amazing. Sad to see that's what happened though :( that stupid bitch. |
| Finally came around to this anime after a week, freaking cousin came to visit and I couldn't watch anime! Miyokichi is here! This is hype! qt Konatsu is enjoying her dad's performance Sukeroku's rakugo is great, I'm liking it. And that jazz track in the background, just great. *CLAPS* FUCKING GREAT SUKEROKU!!!! GREAT PERFORMANCE!! She's still hung up on Kiku Hooly shit this is some reverse NTR shit. Wow, bruh. Oh no from NTR to a suicidal move Yeah protect your treasure however you want, just be sure to protect it. It's your treasure. Miyokichi is falling and I bet Sukeroku is gonna save her and he'll die instead. Oh, they both die. He's still got a part of his treasure left. Amazing episode, I didn't only like it but I loved it. 4.5/5 and Next episode returning to present time. |
 |
| I can't stop this flow. Why did it have to end like this? T_T Miyokichi, why? You abandoned the man who was there for you. You abandoned a treasure like Konatsu. And when you were given a chance it all ended. Sukeroku, why? You gave up on you responsibilities as a man. You drowned yourself to alcohol and abandoned Miyokichi and Konatsu. And when you finally realized everything fall apart. Kikuhiko, why? You only decided to come back when you realized you were lonely. You didn't give Miyokichi a chance and ruined her life. And when you came back... The fact that Konatsu became a victim of irresponsible adults is unbelievably hurting. :'( |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
purpletoddy said: psychoalchemist said: I disagree. You're right that he jumped after her. But he only had to jump after her because she was on that ledge in the first place. And why was she on that ledge? Because she was trying to get Bon to throw away his entire life (literally) for her. He clearly didn't want to, and yet she was trying to force him to kill himself. It's because of that that they were on the ledge in the first place, and that's why she fell. It was entirely Shin's choice to jump after her. He wasn't even on the ledge in the first place. ...Look, you're ignoring the bulk of what I'm saying. I never denied that Shin chose to jump after her. I also never said Shin was on the ledge. Miyokichi and Bon were on the ledge together. Let me try to put this as clearly as possible... > Shin jumped after Miyokichi when she fell off the ledge. > Miyokichi fell off the ledge because there was too much weight on it. > There was too much weight on it because both Miyokichi and Bon were on it. > Bon was on the ledge because Miyokichi forced him onto it. > Miyokichi forced him onto it because she wanted him to KILL HIMSELF for her. I'm sure this won't change your mind, since you have ignored what I said earlier, but even if you're in denial, Shin's death was a direct result of Miyokichi's actions. After Bon broke up with Miyokichi, I did feel sorry for her. I even defended her, saying she had the right to find love and be happy too. But her actions in episode 11 directly caused Shin's death. If she hadn't caused Shin's death, she would have caused Bon's. She's in the wrong either way. |
|
| Not expecting such a tragic way to go. |
 |
| Wow ... really showing how much everyone loved Sukeroku and his performance was so touching! I really don't really get the second half though ... yes, Miyokichi wanted to stay with Kiku and it seems like he wanted them all to live together too. Still though, why did she WANT TO KILL THEM?! I'm so confused ... not to mention Sukeroku seemingly confessing to her how important she was out of nowhere? Then of course the balcony breaking ... I didn't expect that go to down like that! Seems like they both died which sucks, but man, that look that Kiku was giving Sukeroku ... MY BABES T_T By the preview it looks like we go to the present/future ... aww, I'm so sad that this part of the story is over :( I guess we'll see how this wraps up ... man, it's gonna be weird seeing Konatsu as an adult now :O |
| This was such a great reunion... Everything was so great, so great. So happy. And then Miyokichi had to go psycho... Why? I liked her towards the middle of the series, but I can't believe such a thing would happen :( Why did Sukeroku have to die...? Shin-san, come back and continue being a father :'( |
 |
Kiku is there to save them, huh? I didn't see any saving. |
|
Tenth said: As much as I like this show, this death just felt...quite stupid imo, the whole death/suicide and the balcony breaking etc was just badly executed...well whatever I guess. First half of this ep was really good though. Agree, it was poorly executed and super dramatic. But... still feeling for the story. |
|
| I feel this fool-ish ending for them is kinda appropriated, albeit sad. |
 |
| That tear lick was like dafuq 0_0 SUCH a tragedy, I didn't expect his death to be something like that. |
| Epic episode, especially that ending was quite touching!!! Looking forward to see the last episode of this season! |
 |
| Really intense, gripping episode, the narrative unfolds between two significant and profound history, first with rakugo of Sukeroku and after the sad death of him and Miyokichi, but the surprises do not end there. The only thing I regret is that in the next episode the story is a little accelerated. |
 |
| WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK!!! That fuckin whore ruined everything! and why everyone wants to be with that psycho? Yeah Kiku throw away everything and let's just kill ourselves. a minute ago "i want to be with you" and she waited/wanted to be with Kiku for YEARS and when Kiku finally wanted to be with her, "Yeah no let's just kill ourselves" Who even thinks/make decisions like that, that girl is fucked in the head. and really, You neglect your OWN daughter because you hate your husband?? Shin should've punched her in the throat instead of dying for her. Fuckin annoying can't believe how this episode just made me hate every character in the show and i was just saying how this show keeps getting better and better I seriously was about to give this a 9-10/10, but this episode just changed everything. Why every great show has to have a horrible ending? smh i mean i knew Shin will eventually die but not like this. 1/5 God i'm so annoyed right now |
Mr_ShnbApr 28, 2016 4:09 PM
| FUCK ME UP I can't believe this happened |
| May someone please explain to me wtf I just watched? Miyokichi runs off to be with another guy, but then wants to STILL abandon her daughter to be with Bon? Bon licks her tears and wants to be with her? Then, Miyokichi wants to die with Bon? However, Sukeroku then wants to die with Miyokichi, thus, abandoning their daughter all together? All after he just declared how amazing rakugo is, and how he feels bad for putting his daughter through so much drama? I feel like Sukeroku and Miyokichi completely gave up on their daughter. I don’t understand the symbolism behind any of this episode. |
| I expected the final scene, but it was very sad. Sukeroku wanted to give up his Rakugo life for her, she doesn't deserve him ... Poor Kiku, he was so happy to see again Sukeroku :/. Now, I understand why Konatsu was like that in the first episode. This anime is really wonderful. |
| I just stared at the screen, eyes and mouth opened wide. Then they fell, and I broke out in this high-pitch-low-volume screech O__O Yes, I did think "wow, holding two people in one hand, actually just the fingers - no way man", but I chose to look past it. I honestly didn't really understand why Miyokichi wanted to commit suicide in the first place though. It puzzles me. "Just" (sorry, I mean no offence) general depression? What made her think Kiku would go with her? I kinda like(d) Miyo... idk why. Kiku was my fav., but I may just be biased because it's Ishida XD Wonderful story. Probably gonna read the manga. |
| 行けー幼子兵器！あれは木端微塵に粉砕しろ! |
| FUUUUCK NOOOOOOOO!!! SUKEROKU-KUUUUUUN!!! MIYO-SAAAAAAAN!!! THIS EPISODE MADE MY KOKORO BEAT FAST AND STOPPED WHEN THEY FALL :((( Anyways, can anyone confirm whether they fall into the ground or the river? The sound effect seems to be a splash but the river on the cutscene was too far from the house to be fall under. |
 |
| Dumb ways to die.. So many dumb ways to die.. I thought there would be a more meaningful reason behind the deaths of her parents but I guess sometimes reality is not very meaningful after all and unexpected accidents happen. I feel that the voice actors in this anime were pretty amazing, because they have to voice act out people who were perceived to be amazing in in rakugo. |
More topics from this board
Poll: » Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Episode 13 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 )Stark700 - Apr 1, 2016 |
197 |
by Fafette
»»
Dec 23, 2:01 PM |
|
Poll: » Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Episode 9 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Mar 4, 2016 |
122 |
by Fafette
»»
Dec 22, 1:55 AM |
|
Poll: » Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Episode 8 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Feb 26, 2016 |
107 |
by Fafette
»»
Dec 20, 3:59 PM |
|
Poll: » Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Episode 3 Discussion ( 1 2 3 )Stark700 - Jan 22, 2016 |
123 |
by Maladroite
»»
Sep 23, 1:44 AM |
|
Poll: » Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu Episode 1 Discussion ( 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page )Stark700 - Jan 8, 2016 |
263 |
by BigBoyAdvance
»»
May 29, 10:46 AM |