Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers (light novel)
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weather3003 said: Objectively speaking, Mora is the less suspicious one, the first logical one is Fremy, and the second one is Nashetania, Gordov is the third, and Mora is the fourth one, while the rest is innocent. I kinda get it how this trap work and that Adlet is not the fake one.Chiyousagi said: If anything, this episode where it alternate scenes between Maura insisting a fellow brave to kill Adlet on sight and Nash instead trying to cast doubt on ANOTHER brave reduces Maura likelihood and increases Nash. Unless killing off a single brave means instant victory(unlikely since killing off a single brave is actually so easily done lol), the fake brave is unlikely to be so direct like how Maura reacted. Wanting Adlet dead with conviction. If I understand correctly, your point is that Maura telling Flemy to kill Adlet makes her less suspicious because she really wants to escape, and feels Adlet is the way out. Personally, I think that another interpretation is that she says that because she is trying to frame Adlet in order to keep suspicion off of herself. If that is the case, then Maura would need to concentrate on bringing Flemy to her side, because Adlet is the brave she's closest to. I like Nash too much to suspect her :P But from the way the story gonna progress, i believe Fremy will also be proven to be the real one, just because from meta perspective it will be too obvious for her or Hans to be the fake one(and Hans already proven to be the real one this episode also), Fremy lack "evil plotting" intent for this trap to work and she even didn't do anything suspicious. Remember Fremy is a loner hunter, she works alone and even tried to run away from Adlet. With that i am about to consider her as the real one also. I fancy Nashetania to be the fake one because she just the one who act suspicious most often, even we know this character since episode 1, I don't know what her objective is, but some time she acts hysterically over something, sometimes act kinda mature, but sometime act kinda childish. Even on this episode, she trying to point Hans as a fake(the supposedly obvious one after Fremmy) and once again act kinda out of character, but we know Hans proven innocent from this episode. What i can say from this episode about her is, it's just like he trying to search anything that can point out Hans as a fake one, perhaps because Hans is the most nasty one or something like that, and she can't act like she doesn't care about Adlet so the plan demands her to shielding him. |
| Hans and Adlet fight was pretty good. Chamot's power is gross, really ,what was that?! u need to throw up... Nashetania still acting weird...she or Mora might be the fake one. |
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Flashoftheback said: But from the way the story gonna progress, i believe Fremy will also be proven to be the real one, just because from meta perspective it will be too obvious for her or Hans to be the fake one(and Hans already proven to be the real one this episode also), Fremy lack "evil plotting" intent for this trap to work and she even didn't do anything suspicious. Remember Fremy is a loner hunter, she works alone and even tried to run away from Adlet. With that i am about to consider her as the real one also. I fancy Nashetania to be the fake one because she just the one who act suspicious most often, even we know this character since episode 1, I don't know what her objective is, but some time she acts hysterically over something, sometimes act kinda mature, but sometime act kinda childish. Even on this episode, she trying to point Hans as a fake(the supposedly obvious one after Fremmy) and once again act kinda out of character, but we know Hans proven innocent from this episode. how and when? when was he proven innocent? just because he didn't kill Adlet when he had the chance? or he said he's the seventh to trick Adlet? We don't know, maybe he's doing all that to make Adlet trust him. There are no evidence that prove him innocent yet. |
Jagd84 said: He was heavily wound by Hans attack just before he left remember? It took all his strength to just escape, before collapsing. Fremy could have just left on her own after that since he would be too weak to do anything. In fact this what Fremy told them happened. So no that isn't proof of anything. He was heavily wounded yes but in the end how hard would it have been to slit her throat right before collasping. He could've stopped running a bit earlier to do that, and Fremy returned completely uninjured so that even shows he isn't all that malicious. But okay let's say that really wasn't possible. We know Fremy didn't actually escape but was let go, Adlet didn't pursue or try to stop her, there are no signs of resistance. I think the excuse Fremy used on Mora and Goldov that he was too weak to hurt her was flimsy at best. If he was too weak to hurt her why would she let HIM escape. She says she didn't have her gun but we know she has other little bombs and stuff (although Mora might not know this there are still ways she could have at least hurt him more considering how important it is for them to eliminate the 7th ASAP.) In my opinion Mora is just to willing to believe Adlet is immoral and therefore guilty and therefore won't consider this. What are taking about? Taking hostages it last thing a person in his position should do. That not only sign of desperation, but it not something a hero does. But Adlet is person constantly does what most heroes wouldn't do with what makes people distrust him to begin with. Sorry I can't agree with your POV. First he hardly had any options at that point, a sign of desperation? HE WAS desperate. Goldov attacked him out of no where when they were still discussing his possible guilt and then Hans jumped on that bandwagon. Both of them are HELLA strong so he hardly had a choice. He could have chose to fight them off while all the while still yelling he's innocent but its likely the others (Like impatient Chamot) would jump in and start fighting too and she's the most OP one there. Taking a hostage at the very least was the quickest way to get them to STOP attacking him. Remember Adlet might like sprouting that he's the strongest all the time but I'm sure deep down he knows that's not true, he's very practical as we've seen so far so he's gonna be cautious and make sure he lives before anything else. Besides there called heroes but really their just the strongest people around. They don't necessarily have to have good morals. The fact that characteristic isn't needed to be one of the 6 is already proved by the fact Chamot and Hans are there. Chamot is selfish, immature and has already killed others (by accident and probably on purpose too and doesn't show any remorse) and Hans is an assassin. Such hero-like qualities. If needing hero qualities determines who isn't the 7th then they should of been more skeptical of Hans instead of following his line of reasoning so blindly, doesn't matter if its logical. Most things immediately seem logical when someone is trying to frame another. Jagd84 said: Besides he not suspect of being the 7th because he kidnapped Fremy, that just add to everyone else suspicions. He is considered the most likely suspect as the 7th because based on current information he only one who entered the Temple and activated the barrier. The hostage situation only just made his position worse. The better question is based on they know why shouldn't anyone in-verse come to conclusion about him being the 7th? In fact if Adlet was the 7th and Hans had never found out about the door being imbued by the Saint of Seals magic and Adlet would have gotten away with his scheme because no one could suspect him then. We the audience know he isn't, but if we we aren't in his POV all the time and if he wasn't the MC that would be a different story. I know he was suspected because of taking Fremy. He was suspected as the 7th after Hans' rationale. Key word being 'suspected' and yet Goldov and Hans attacked him outright without warning and everyone stood by and let that happen (besides the princess' meagre protest). But Mora isn't just suspicious of him being the 7th, she's using the hostage situation as a reason for confirming Adlet is the 7th. Maybe she suspected him at first but she fully believes it know. Maybe I'm being lenient on Adlet because as a viewer I know he's innocent but that doesn't change the fact that they're being too harsh on him without having any solid evidence. My whole argument is only that Mora is being too rash in deciding Adlet is guilty because he took Fremy hostage in a situation that hardly allowed for anything else. He didn't hurt her because he never really had any intentions to. Also I don't mean to sound snooty but once the real 7th is revealed it will confirm I'm right that Mora was too rash in her judgement. We know Adlet is innocent and therefore no matter what kind of reasoning used to lead the others into believing he's guilty in the end they would have been too rash in deciding he was guilty and try to kill him because there was no solid evidence and because he is, in fact innocent. (of course this is rejecting the whole theory that he has a split personality or something and doesn't actually remember doing it lol) |
InugirlzAug 25, 2015 5:31 PM
SweetCoconut said: Mannn, Chamot what are you planning? Adlet was about to solve the mystery. It's a 30 second mystery that should have been done in 1 episode. Having everyone be sociopaths who would rather murder Adlet than spend 30 seconds trying to figure it out is just a device to pad out 1 episode into 8. Chamot is a crazy sociopath, Hans is a murder for hire with a stupid affectation, Flamie is an emo mass murderer. Adlet may be annoying as anything with his "strongest man" routine, but in comparison he is looking like a saint. With the majority of humans we've been shown so far being a bunch of vicious evil murdering trash... is this like Karate Kid and Daniel and the humans are the villains and the demons the good guys? I'm really starting to think yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM&feature=youtu.be |
SokahAug 25, 2015 8:48 PM
ttcchen said: That will be the most illogical thinking, it's better to kill Adlet when he has the 100% chance no matter how you try to think about it or you just confusing yourself, since the next suspicious one would be Fremy. Unless you want to defies what have been shown and speculate about what's not, then at least Adlet and Hans already proven to be the real one on this episode. Hans lacked evidence to prove him innocent, yes. But i am already lost any chance or possibility to doubt him from this episode, unless you want to confuse yourself about what have been shown, that is. Flashoftheback said: But from the way the story gonna progress, i believe Fremy will also be proven to be the real one, just because from meta perspective it will be too obvious for her or Hans to be the fake one(and Hans already proven to be the real one this episode also), Fremy lack "evil plotting" intent for this trap to work and she even didn't do anything suspicious. Remember Fremy is a loner hunter, she works alone and even tried to run away from Adlet. With that i am about to consider her as the real one also. I fancy Nashetania to be the fake one because she just the one who act suspicious most often, even we know this character since episode 1, I don't know what her objective is, but some time she acts hysterically over something, sometimes act kinda mature, but sometime act kinda childish. Even on this episode, she trying to point Hans as a fake(the supposedly obvious one after Fremmy) and once again act kinda out of character, but we know Hans proven innocent from this episode. how and when? when was he proven innocent? just because he didn't kill Adlet when he had the chance? or he said he's the seventh to trick Adlet? We don't know, maybe he's doing all that to make Adlet trust him. There are no evidence that prove him innocent yet. Then as i stated the rest possibility is : 1. Fremy(which is nigh impossible because as an audience i can see that she is a loner and lacked evil plan to execute this trap due to her in-character, and i bet she will be proven to be the real one on the next episode or so) 2. Nashetania (this girl is the most suspicious one as she often act out of character and that her forced effort to point a finger at Hans. I think she is the fake one.) 3. Gordov. (this guy is just too stoic and don't talk a lot, it's either hiding something or that's just his character, i don't know. Usually this type of character is the obvious one, it's 50-50) 4. Mora (This woman is some kind of all-knowing about this fog since she is the head-temple of saints, there is an obvious possibility that she might be the mastermind with all the information she has, but she never yet act suspicious even till now, so she still the last suspect.) |
Inugirlz said: He was heavily wounded yes but in the end how hard would it have been to slit her throat right before collasping. He could've stopped running a bit earlier to do that, and Fremy returned completely uninjured so that even shows he isn't all that malicious. But okay let's say that really wasn't possible. We know Fremy didn't actually escape but was let go, Adlet didn't pursue or try to stop her, there are no signs of resistance. I think the excuse Fremy used on Mora and Goldov that he was too weak to hurt her was flimsy at best. If he was too weak to hurt her why would she let HIM escape. She says she didn't have her gun but we know she has other little bombs and stuff (although Mora might not know this there are still ways she could have at least hurt him more considering how important it is for them to eliminate the 7th ASAP.) In my opinion Mora is just to willing to believe Adlet is immoral and therefore guilty and therefore won't consider this. Except we know he didn't have strength because we saw him collapse after he escaped. He shouldn't even been able to run after getting stabbed the way did, but since he was moving pure adernline and thinking of nothing else but getting as far from temple as possible. Fremy coming back saying she escaped just confirms what they might have assumed when she reappeared. There no reason for them to think otherwise. The rest of heroes don't even know him well enough other than his infamous reputation to kind of faith in his character that your asking. Frankly having a hostage in his situation is a lot better than not (especially since he's outnumbered). They can't touch him as long Fremy's life in his hands and that is great leverage to make plans and tactics for so saying there no in it benefit is silly. A mastermind is take advantage of any given situation to his or herself. Sorry I can't agree with your POV. First he hardly had any options at that point, a sign of desperation? HE WAS desperate. Goldov attacked him out of no where when they were still discussing his possible guilt and then Hans jumped on that bandwagon. Both of them are HELLA strong so he hardly had a choice. He could have chose to fight them off while all the while still yelling he's innocent but its likely the others (Like impatient Chamot) would jump in and start fighting too and she's the most OP one there. Taking a hostage at the very least was the quickest way to get them to STOP attacking him. Remember Adlet might like sprouting that he's the strongest all the time but I'm sure deep down he knows that's not true, he's very practical as we've seen so far so he's gonna be cautious and make sure he lives before anything else. I know why he took a hostage and I don't begrudge Adlet for it, but doesn't change the fact it wouldn't make him innocent. Hell Adlet himself knows this, and only did it he knows he has no strong argument to beat Hans' and things would come this way soon or later because of it. Furthermore to begin with nobody jumped at him. Even after Hans made his accusation he was given plenty of time counter it, but he did very poor job. Even after that Mora had everyone give their opinions on proceedings and vote incase there was something that was overlooked. Everyone but Fremy (no opinion) and Nashetaina agreed. Whether Goldof (the last to give his opinion) had attacked him or not would not change the popular opinion. Besides there called heroes but really their just the strongest people around. They don't necessarily have to have good morals. The fact that characteristic isn't needed to be one of the 6 is already proved by the fact Chamot and Hans are there. Chamot is selfish, immature and has already killed others (by accident and probably on purpose too and doesn't show any remorse) and Hans is an assassin. Such hero-like qualities. If needing hero qualities determines who isn't the 7th then they should of been more skeptical of Hans instead of following his line of reasoning so blindly, doesn't matter if its logical. Most things immediately seem logical when someone is trying to frame another. Right and even those two have been under suspicions because of it (even Adlet himself suspected Hans on nothing but his appearance). But unlike Adlet neither of them have any leads linking them to the incident and nor have done anything as extreme as he did. They not trusting what says Hans blindly either, the door and Mora backup his statements and nobody objected. Mora herself has no reason to defend what Hans says anyway if isn't the truth. Remember the stipulation is there only one traitor in the group, because you cannot receive a crest if 1) Aren't powerful 2) you don't not have a desire or will to kill the Demon God. So it unlike that a genuine flower would be working with the 7th. So if something is being back up by the another then it is probably true, doesn't matter where it is coming from. IN fact the 7th's plans cannot work if there not truths to certain things. You can only assume someone is lying up to a point. I know he was suspected because of taking Fremy. He was suspected as the 7th after Hans' rationale. Key word being 'suspected' and yet Goldov and Hans attacked him outright without warning and everyone stood by and let that happen (besides the princess' meagre protest). But Mora isn't just suspicious of him being the 7th, she's using the hostage situation as a reason for confirming Adlet is the 7th. Maybe she suspected him at first but she fully believes it know. Maybe I'm being lenient on Adlet because as a viewer I know he's innocent but that doesn't change the fact that they're being too harsh on him without having any solid evidence. My whole argument is only that Mora is being too rash in deciding Adlet is guilty because he took Fremy hostage in a situation that hardly allowed for anything else. He didn't hurt her because he never really had any intentions to. As I said before, there are no other logical leads based on current information and there is no reason to defend Adlet if there is no contradictions in the charges. If they having keep having to hold back form making a decision for no reason other then "maybe" with nothing to backup that doubt compared to contrary they will never be able to find the 7th. Whether they turn wrong or not the decision is has to made on most likely scenario within reason. And frankly even we the audience can not be 100% sure that Adlet isn't the 7th either. We just know that in most likely scenario he isn't because we have more information and privy to things that cast aren't. You can only make judgements based on what you know and that what everyone is doing regardless of the outcome. Also I don't mean to sound snooty but once the real 7th is revealed it will confirm I'm right that Mora was too rash in her judgement. We know Adlet is innocent and therefore no matter what kind of reasoning used to lead the others into believing he's guilty in the end they would have been too rash in deciding he was guilty and try to kill him because there was no solid evidence and because he is, in fact innocent. (of course this is rejecting the whole theory that he has a split personality or something and doesn't actually remember doing it lol) No it wouldn't. It just mean that 7th's plan was successful in framing Adlet by making like nobody other than him could have done it. I won't blame any because was discussed and deliberated on before any decision was made. |
Iron_MawAug 26, 2015 3:50 AM
Inugirlz said: Besides there called heroes but really their just the strongest people around. They don't necessarily have to have good morals. The fact that characteristic isn't needed to be one of the 6 is already proved by the fact Chamot and Hans are there. Chamot is selfish, immature and has already killed others (by accident and probably on purpose too and doesn't show any remorse) and Hans is an assassin. Such hero-like qualities. If needing hero qualities determines who isn't the 7th then they should of been more skeptical of Hans instead of following his line of reasoning so blindly, doesn't matter if its logical. Most things immediately seem logical when someone is trying to frame another. The name "saints" is even worse. There is nothing saintly about Chamo; Nashetania and Fremy represent totally different definitions of sainthood; and Mora in this episode reminds me of inquisition and witch-hunts. |
flannan said: Inugirlz said: Besides there called heroes but really their just the strongest people around. They don't necessarily have to have good morals. The fact that characteristic isn't needed to be one of the 6 is already proved by the fact Chamot and Hans are there. Chamot is selfish, immature and has already killed others (by accident and probably on purpose too and doesn't show any remorse) and Hans is an assassin. Such hero-like qualities. If needing hero qualities determines who isn't the 7th then they should of been more skeptical of Hans instead of following his line of reasoning so blindly, doesn't matter if its logical. Most things immediately seem logical when someone is trying to frame another. The name "saints" is even worse. There is nothing saintly about Chamo; Nashetania and Fremy represent totally different definitions of sainthood; and Mora in this episode reminds me of inquisition and witch-hunts. Saints is here just another name for apostle dude. The title doesn't have match the Christian meaning at all. And what's happening isn't a Witch hunt not when there reasonable logic and evidence against the suspect. The burden proof is on Adlet now because it would be dumb if just they believe anything he said with nothing backing it. |
Iron_MawAug 26, 2015 1:14 AM
| I kinda wish that Passione also adapted or incorporated the 7th's inner monologue as well. Though I have no idea how they would do it, and apparently neither do they. |
| "whats so special about bonzai trees?" "They are the loli of the tree world."  Inganock of the Brightest Flame |
| Moira and Nashetania are very likely to be organizers when it comes to the complex plans and huge deception that whole barrier plot requires. They also both shows signs that they are manipulating the group for their own ends. People like Hans or Adlet are clever then it comes to finding the combat tactics, but unlike as authors of the plans like the barrier one. Goldov, Chamo and Fremie aren't stupid, but they are not strategists either. |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
Sokah said: SweetCoconut said: Mannn, Chamot what are you planning? Adlet was about to solve the mystery. It's a 30 second mystery that should have been done in 1 episode. Having everyone be sociopaths who would rather murder Adlet than spend 30 seconds trying to figure it out is just a device to pad out 1 episode into 8. Chamot is a crazy sociopath, Hans is a murder for hire with a stupid affectation, Flamie is an emo mass murderer. Adlet may be annoying as anything with his "strongest man" routine, but in comparison he is looking like a saint. With the majority of humans we've been shown so far being a bunch of vicious evil murdering trash... is this like Karate Kid and Daniel and the humans are the villains and the demons the good guys? I'm really starting to think yes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Gz_iTuRMM&feature=youtu.be a mystery done in one episode. then what about the rest 12 episodes? kill the demon lord and party? you said this mystery can be solved in 30seconds, then can u do it? how do they solve the seventh reasonably when Adlet is the most suspicious person? of course they would think he's the seventh and attack him. "stupid affection": that's just your opinion "emo mass murderer": do you even know what 'emo' means? Adlet looks like a saint? did you forget that only woman can become saints? |
Jagd84 said: Except we know he didn't have strength because we saw him collapse after he escaped. He shouldn't even been able to run after getting stabbed the way did, but since he was moving pure adernline and thinking of nothing else but getting as far from temple as possible. Fremy coming back saying she escaped just confirms what they might have assumed when she reappeared. There no reason for them to think otherwise. The rest of heroes don't even know him well enough other than his infamous reputation to kind of faith in his character that your asking. You're missing my point. If Adlet was the 7th rather than focusing so much on getting away if he had ill intentions towards Fremy he could have killed her while running (break her neck, push a needle into her, etc). He was too focused on running away because he had no intention of actually hurting her. If he's using adrenaline to run he can use adrenaline to kill (you know as a final act before passing out because it's better to get rid of a potential threat before becoming completely defenceless and at least from the 7th POV it would be a final act of rebellion.) Also why wouldn't they think otherwise with what Fremy said? They barely know her too (plus they know she's part kyouma and just a little while ago was the prime suspect) It's actually the other way around why wouldn't they assume her story was fishy? Really she's completely unarmed and Adlet is supposedly indisposed yet she calmly comes walking back. Plus even if the heroes know nothing about him they at least know he was capable of taking on 2 potential flowers at that tournament, not to mention many guards. Someone that strong couldn't even muster any energy to kill/hurt Fremy before she left? Many of them don't know any of the others closely but what kind of teamwork could they possibly hope to gain to defeat the Majin if they are so quick to kill someone who is only a potential enemy and let me say this again: there is no concrete proof Adlet did it. I know why he took a hostage and I don't begrudge Adlet for it, but doesn't change the fact it wouldn't make him innocent. Hell Adlet himself knows this, and only did it he knows he has no strong argument to beat Hans' and things would come this way soon or later because of it. Furthermore to begin with nobody jumped at him. Even after Hans made his accusation he was given plenty of time counter it, but he did very poor job. Even after that Mora had everyone give their opinions on proceedings and vote incase there was something that was overlooked. Everyone but Fremy (no opinion) and Nashetaina agreed. Whether Goldof (the last to give his opinion) had attacked him or not would not change the popular opinion. LOL innocent? I'm not saying that at all. Obviously it looks suspicious and makes his situation worse but it doesn't condemn him either. But from Mora's POV it does which is why I'm saying she's too rash. Rash as in lacking consideration. She won't even consider the possibility that Adlet needed a quick shield NO one would actually attack in order to remain alive. Someone under threat obviously needs to put their life first before they can do anything else. Once you're dead you can do anything else. Adlet did a poor job giving an explanation but that doesn't mean you suddenly rush him. Which is exactly what Goldov did. Popular opinion still doesn't mean you attack they could have tied him up like they did with Fremy first. I'm sure Adlet would have agreed to that since he is the prime suspect and needs them to trust him. Right and even those two have been under suspicions because of it (even Adlet himself suspected Hans on nothing but his appearance). But unlike Adlet neither of them have any leads linking them to the incident and nor have done anything as extreme as he did. They not trusting what says Hans blindly either, the door and Mora backup his statements and nobody objected. Mora herself has no reason to defend what Hans says anyway if isn't the truth..... But I wasn't saying because the others have bad morals that that makes them more likely to be the 7th. I'm saying that since Mora is using Adlet's poor morals as a grounds for deeming him as the 7th (therefore someone they should kill on sight), she's making a rational mistake. As I said before, there are no other logical leads based on current information and there is no reason to defend Adlet if there is no contradictions in the charges. If they having keep having to hold back form making a decision for no reason other then "maybe" with nothing to backup that doubt compared to contrary they will never be able to find the 7th. Whether they turn wrong or not the decision is has to made on most likely scenario within reason. And frankly even we the audience can not be 100% sure that Adlet isn't the 7th either. We just know that in most likely scenario he isn't because we have more information and privy to things that cast aren't. You can only make judgements based on what you know and that what everyone is doing regardless of the outcome. They don't have to defend Adlet, but what they do need to do is find concrete evidence before you go killing a person. Especially a potential ally needed to defeat the Majin. And you're wrong there, there are no other logical leads? That's because no one has thought of it yet. That doesnt mean it doesn't exist. You say doubt will never make them be able to find the 7th but why would you say such a think? Careful consideration and looking for more concrete evidence is ESSENTIAL in order to not fall into the real 7th's trap. if you make hasty decisions you're more likely to make a mistake. You say we don't know he's 100% innocent but we do. We're even inside his head and we know he isn't playing games. Even if by some strange twist it turns out he did activate the barrier by accident or something it would have been as the result of someone else's ploy. No it wouldn't. It just mean that 7th's plan was successful in framing Adlet by making like nobody other than him could have done it. I won't blame any because was discussed and deliberated on before any decision was made. Actually that's exactly what it would mean. The 7th's plan being successful isn't mutually exclusive from everyone making hasty decisions. In fact it's a necessity for everyone to jump to conclusions for the 7th plan to even work. You wouldn't blame anyone for condeming an innocent to death? Especially when there was never any solid proof? No one SAW Adlet activate the barrier therefore there's always the possibility that he didn't. If they kill him and realize he's real then not only did they kill an ally but they're still left with finding the true 7th. And if they kept going around accusing other's without any valid evidence they'd be fools who'd eventually wipe themselves out. How is acting like that not condemnable? Better yet, let's say they do kill Adlet and then realize he's real and turn there attention to someone else (let's say Fremy). Would not the reasons Fremy is the 7th provide plausible doubt of Adlet's guilt? But oh wait they already KILLED HIM. You can't go back from that kind of mistake. And as long as there's that possible outcome you should move with some caution. |
InugirlzAug 26, 2015 7:54 AM
IronLobster said: I kinda wish that Passione also adapted or incorporated the 7th's inner monologue as well. Though I have no idea how they would do it, and apparently neither do they. That would definitely have been interesting to see in an audio/visual medium. However, one could easily eliminate a few Braves if they included that. |
| bunny girl is hella suspicious do I even need to explain that little girl needa chill I have nothing to say about Adlet tbh but I almost believed he actually died Hans is really growing on me. His fight scene with Adlet was A+, so freakin' badass. wow bite me. He spent the fight trying to figure out if it really was Adlet so it's unlikely he's the fake. It would also be the generic, obvious answer which I think this anime will avoid. I like how they teamed up after their fight. Overall, bunny girl princess is 99.9% the seventh. From the looks of it, I have a theory that she's probably trying to leave a weak impression on the other blades by defending Adlet and then turning on him when he's found by saying something like, "No way... I-I trusted you with all of my heart... How could you do this to me...?" to get the others to feel sorry for her and to frame Adlet as a terrible deceiving-poor-defenseless-girls traitor. If not bunny girl, Maura is my next immediate suspect and after her would be Flamie. Maura knows the most about the temple and key and it's possible that she hasn't told the rest of the blades everything about them. She also seems a little too rash and needs to stop and consider for a second that perhaps, jus maybe, it could be someone else besides Adlet? Hopefully we'll get more info next episode. For a mystery anime, we don't have much to go on or there probably have been loads of hints but I overlooked them and will only notice them when the perp is revealed. I'm still betting it's bunny girl. |
ayabereitoAug 27, 2015 8:48 AM
me? watch anime? lol of course not (*ʘ‿ʘ) haha only losers watch anime (ʘ▽ʘ) what even is anime ヾ(ʘ∀ʘ)ﾉ right? :) :) :) :) :) right? (ᅌᴗᅌ* ) right? (≖ ‿ ≖) anime (◉‿◉) |
Inugirlz said: You're missing my point. If Adlet was the 7th rather than focusing so much on getting away if he had ill intentions towards Fremy he could have killed her while running (break her neck, push a needle into her, etc). He was too focused on running away because he had no intention of actually hurting her Or you know all he was only thinking about was just escaping at the at moment because he didn't expect to be found out this quickly and panicked. Sorry but there is many ways interpret that. Fremy coming back gave them reasonable explanation that fitted the situation. If he's using adrenaline to run he can use adrenaline to kill (you know as a final act before passing out because it's better to get rid of a potential threat before becoming completely defenceless and at least from the 7th POV it would be a final act of rebellion.) He doesn't know in if he will even survive getting out with this gambit, he's mind is only focused on living. That why he took this gamble to begin with. Now he has dagger in his side and is huge amount of pain that is only being pushed aside because if Adlet does anything else he collapse from the pain. Killing Fremy wouldn't be even be on his mind 7th or not in that situation. Also why wouldn't they think otherwise with what Fremy said? They barely know her too (plus they know she's part kyouma and just a little while ago was the prime suspect) It's actually the other way around why wouldn't they assume her story was fishy? Really she's completely unarmed and Adlet is supposedly indisposed yet she calmly comes walking back. Because 1) it doesn't make any sense when she is the victim. 2) Hans already cleared her though deduction. 3) There is only one traitor not 2. Once again you asking to strangers to trust most suspicious of lot currently because he is the main character, not because he is one of Braves and just likely 7th traitor. Plus even if the heroes know nothing about him they at least know he was capable of taking on 2 potential flowers at that tournament, not to mention many guards. Someone that strong couldn't even muster any energy to kill/hurt Fremy before she left? He also knocked out in one hit there. That means nothing. And it'd pretty flimsy reasoning that relies on lots variables such as physical and mental condition whether he was surprised or not etc. Many of them don't know any of the others closely but what kind of teamwork could they possibly hope to gain to defeat the Majin if they are so quick to kill someone who is only a potential enemy and let me say this again: there is no concrete proof Adlet did it. Except nobody was quick to kill anyone. The discussed it, they found lead, they found solid evidence and even Adlet's own testimony, they had a vote and opinion assessment and then a made decision. LOL innocent? I'm not saying that at all. Obviously it looks suspicious and makes his situation worse but it doesn't condemn him either. No what condemned him was the door and the series of events up this point. Outside Chamo he's only without an alibi to defend himself and was the only one physical near the temple before the activation. The seal responded in the way it supposed to that matches his story. But from Mora's POV it does which is why I'm saying she's too rash. Rash as in lacking consideration. She won't even consider the possibility that Adlet needed a quick shield NO one would actually attack in order to remain alive. Someone under threat obviously needs to put their life first before they can do anything else. Once you're dead you can do anything else. She and Hans think Adlet is the 7th based on all the information that has been discussed and looked over, Fremy hostage incident is irrelevant to that other lowering their opinion of him. That action is just kind of thing they except of someone who caught red handed. It doesn't matter if he did it to survive, plenty do all sort of bad things in order to justly their will to survive. Adlet did a poor job giving an explanation but that doesn't mean you suddenly rush him. Which is exactly what Goldov did. Popular opinion still doesn't mean you attack they could have tied him up like they did with Fremy first. I'm sure Adlet would have agreed to that since he is the prime suspect and needs them to trust him. But I wasn't saying because the others have bad morals that that makes them more likely to be the 7th. I'm saying that since Mora is using Adlet's poor morals as a grounds for deeming him as the 7th (therefore someone they should kill on sight), she's making a rational mistake. Only one person rushed him, it was last person to give his opinion and you don't know if Adlet would come quietly to be interrogated (which was suggested by Mora by the way). With how panicked he was I really doubt that because they nothing he could say anymore at that point to prove his innocence. It just lead to him being killed eventually. He's better off letting the accusation stand momentarily and escaping to formulate a plan to find tangible evidence to counter Hans' claims. They don't have to defend Adlet, but what they do need to do is find concrete evidence before you go killing a person. Especially a potential ally needed to defeat the Majin. And you're wrong there, there are no other logical leads? That's because no one has thought of it yet. That doesnt mean it doesn't exist. You say doubt will never make them be able to find the 7th but why would you say such a think? Careful consideration and looking for more concrete evidence is ESSENTIAL in order to not fall into the real 7th's trap. if you make hasty decisions you're more likely to make a mistake. You say we don't know he's 100% innocent but we do. We're even inside his head and we know he isn't playing games. Even if by some strange twist it turns out he did activate the barrier by accident or something it would have been as the result of someone else's ploy. So saying they should ignore the crucial information they just learned ( which never would have happened without Hans or Mora being there to notice it) that makes Hans case stronger than anything else they had at that time to jump at much less solid scenarios that have nothing but wild theories backing them up? Just to save someone who is probably lying when they have all established that 7th would do anything make themselves look genuine? Basically you asking to conveniently turn a blind eye most damning piece of evidence to give special treatment to MC. Yeah no, not going to happen anywhere. You wouldn't blame anyone for condeming an innocent to death? Especially when there was never any solid proof? No one SAW Adlet activate the barrier therefore there's always the possibility that he didn't. If they kill him and realize he's real then not only did they kill an ally but they're still left with finding the true 7th. And if they kept going around accusing other's without any valid evidence they'd be fools who'd eventually wipe themselves out. How is acting like that not condemnable? Better yet, let's say they do kill Adlet and then realize he's real and turn there attention to someone else (let's say Fremy). Would not the reasons Fremy is the 7th provide plausible doubt of Adlet's guilt? But oh wait they already KILLED HIM. You can't go back from that kind of mistake. And as long as there's that possible outcome you should move with some caution. No wouldn't, framing happens all the time in real life to innocent people. That is whole point of it in the first place. It hard anyone but the accused to know that they innocent to begin with when both reasonable evidence and motive exist that points to them. Whether Adlet killed or not is less important how the logic, caution and evidence aligned to reach that conclusion to begin with. In otherwords it doesn't matter they wrong or not as long as it was done under the most reasonable assumption, then it is an acceptable error. That's why Adlet was framed this way. Stop pretending that everyone walking in and accused Adleti as soon as he step into the room. Seriously you are not looking at this from POV of people 1) suspicious of each other. 2) has no reason to believe anyone of them is telling the truth unless back up by someone else. 3) are scrutinizing the holes found anyone's story that will lead to an incrimination. Your using you viewer POV and that doesn't work here unless somebody is a mind reader. One of the people in that room is a traitor and one of them is going do (or already has) something makes them suspicious. If evidence appears to cement that theory then of course person going be charged unless something there a strong contradiction to it. That person just happen to fall on was Adlet who you have clear bias in defending because you part of his POV unlike the people in freaking show. |
Iron_MawAug 26, 2015 6:10 PM
GSupernova said: One thing that occurred to me after some contemplation is that Chamot's ability to cause fiends to be able to ignore anti-fiend barriers may be more significant to the plot than simply providing a reason for why Chamot's attack is not easily foiled in this current fight. There was a question earlier as to how the fiend that Adlet spoke with was able to cross past the barrier if I recall correctly, and I would pose a hypothetical that Chamot may be a possible explanation. Some food for thought. Well Chamo's Jyuma (what the creatures are called) aren't strictly fiends anymore, but recomposed, reformed assortment of creatures and animals she's eaten that are infused with her power. That probably why they're able to bypass the salt barrier. |
Jagd84 said: GSupernova said: One thing that occurred to me after some contemplation is that Chamot's ability to cause fiends to be able to ignore anti-fiend barriers may be more significant to the plot than simply providing a reason for why Chamot's attack is not easily foiled in this current fight. There was a question earlier as to how the fiend that Adlet spoke with was able to cross past the barrier if I recall correctly, and I would pose a hypothetical that Chamot may be a possible explanation. Some food for thought. Well Chamo's Jyuma (what the creatures are called) aren't strictly fiends anymore, but recomposed, reformed assortment of creatures and animals she's eaten that are infused with her power. That probably why they're able to bypass the salt barrier. But I think his point is that Chamot's power bypasses the rule stated earlier in some sense, which could help explain some things potentially if she were the culprit. |
flannan said: MegaShadowFist said: My only other theory is that none of them are fake. In reality, even though there are only six braves who fight the demon lord, there are actually several more who are selected. My reasoning behind this is that Moura stated that whenever a brave dies, a petal is removed from the mark. However, none of the other braves seemed to be aware of that, despite Fremy going on a murderous rampage with the other braves. Perhaps, the petals are designed to disappear only for those that the wearer deems to be his/her comrade. It's just that one of (or all of the them depending on how you look at it) them unfortunately came when they shouldn't have. Perhaps the barrier is designed not just to keep fiends out, but to keep other potential braves from coming as well. Anyway, that's just my dumb theory for the day. The people Fremy killed were brave candidates, people whom other people thought likely to be chosen as braves. They did not have their brave marks yet. Brave marks are given when the demon god start awakening, and from that moment on, it's a race for time, so there is merit in killing the potential braves before that moment. Welp, theory debunked. It was a valiant ever though. XD |
| This mystery is so intense, loved the action and development aswell! Love the interaction between Adlet and Hans, can totally see them becoming bros. Nashetania is still the most suspicious, although Maura feels kind of odd aswell. The "You must kill him" part felt kind of out of character and a bit aggressive. Chamot is just an annoying brat, really don't like her at all. Nashetania is kind of annoying aswell honestly. Fremy, Hans and Adlet are all great though! |
NowOrNever88 said: Jagd84 said: Well Chamo's Jyuma (what the creatures are called) aren't strictly fiends anymore, but recomposed, reformed assortment of creatures and animals she's eaten that are infused with her power. That probably why they're able to bypass the salt barrier. But I think his point is that Chamot's power bypasses the rule stated earlier in some sense, which could help explain some things potentially if she were the culprit. I figured that was what he was getting at too. However this theory doesn't work that well for same reason the Nashetania "placing a sword in the altar which activated the barrier" one doesn't. You need do all three steps to be done with the last step needing a spoken phase. Mod Edit: possible (small)spoiler tagged. |
rodacAug 27, 2015 9:17 PM
Jagd84 said: ... Sorry but there is many ways interpret that. Fremy coming back gave them reasonable explanation that fitted the situation. Fair enough. If there are many ways to interpret that situation none of us can be right. And if none of us are right why assume the scenario that condemns Adlet the most? He doesn't know in if he will even survive getting out with this gambit, he's mind is only focused on living... Again that's just one interpretation. You're saying he doesn't know as if you know for certain that was the case. But in the end it doesn't matter what Adlet actually was thinking the point is what the others chose to see. Do they assume he was too weak to hurt Fremy or that he CHOSE not to hurt her because he never really intended to.Because 1) it doesn't make any sense when she is the victim. 2) Hans already cleared her though deduction. 3) There is only one traitor not 2. Once again you asking to strangers to trust most suspicious of lot currently because he is the main character, not because he is one of Braves and just likely 7th traitor. But I'm not saying they should suspect Fremy is lying and therefore the actual 7th. I'm saying they should consider the fact Fremy didn't actually have to escape but was let go because Adlet is actually good or at least never intended for the hostage situation to get so out of hand. He also knocked out in one hit there. That means nothing. And it'd pretty flimsy reasoning that relies on lots variables such as physical and mental condition whether he was surprised or not etc. I don't really get why you think this was flimsy reasoning. Except nobody was quick to kill anyone. The discussed it, they found lead, they found solid evidence and even Adlet's own testimony, they had a vote and opinion assessment and then a made decision. Except yes, both Hans and Goldov (not to mention Chamot with her constant let's torture/kill whoever seems suspicious) were quick to kill. They discussed, found a lead, but did NOT find solid evidence. Solid evidence would be someone having witnessed Adlet actually activate the barrier. All they know is that according to the sequence of events Adlet is likely the only person within there group who could have done it. Adlet is considering a possible 8th, it's not that farfetched to believe someone else is there hidden in the barrier. Also they didn't make a decision to actual attack him, instead of offering a vocal answer Godolv just went after him. That is fact. She and Hans think Adlet is the 7th based on all the information that has been discussed and looked over, Fremy hostage incident is irrelevant to that other lowering their opinion of him. That action is just kind of thing they except of someone who caught red handed. It doesn't matter if he did it to survive, plenty do all sort of bad things in order to justly their will to survive. From what we see in the actual show. Mora is suspicious of Adlet but isn't 100% confident. Her exact words were "I believe Hans is correct, but before we kill him we should gather more information." This can be taken 2 ways. 1) she already thinks he's guilty and just wants to know his motive or 2) she thinks he's pretty guilty but is still willing to hear other explanations/put there heads together to make more sense of the situation. If 2 is the correct interpretation then this slight allowance she has for Adlet completely disappears after her opinion of him lowers and he takes the hostage. She's now quite confident and ruthless in her decision to kill him. Which in one sense seems fair because yes he did do something highly immoral but if she considers the fact that moments before Chamot is talking about torturing him and Goldov/Hans fully attacked him, it kinda isn't fair to suddenly take away his chance for explanation because he was defending himself. Only one person rushed him, it was last person to give his opinion and you don't know if Adlet would come quietly to be interrogated (which was suggested by Mora by the way). With how panicked he was I really doubt that because they nothing he could say anymore at that point to prove his innocence. It just lead to him being killed eventually. He's better off letting the accusation stand momentarily and escaping to formulate a plan to find tangible evidence to counter Hans' claims And there lies the problem with their thinking, why must the flustered accused have to prove his innocence all by himself? If they kill him and he turns out to be innocent they ALL lose. Adlet loses his life, and they lose a partner and are still stuck in the barrier with a fake. Rather than escalating things they should of all calmly sat down, put some more time into considering alternate explanations which Adlet would have definitely agreed to. There interrogation likely would have consisted entirely of "SO WHY DID YOU DO IT? HOW DID YOU DO IT/ETC" which would get them no where because Adlet's innocent. So instead they should all consider alternatives. But instead they all immediately agree he's guilty (minus Nachetanyia and Fremy who remained silent) and utter words like torture/kill. Then Godolv did rush him. Followed IMMEDIATELY by Hans. Chamot didn't rush but she would likely be next seeing as she's the next most impatient. So saying they should ignore the crucial information they just learned ( which never would have happened without Hans or Mora being there to notice it) that makes Hans case stronger than anything else they had at that time to jump at much less solid scenarios that have nothing but wild theories backing them up? Just to save someone who is probably lying when they have all established that 7th would do anything make themselves look genuine? Basically you asking to conveniently turn a blind eye most damning piece of evidence to give special treatment to MC. Yeah no, not going to happen anywhere. All i can say to this is the fact you use the word "probably lying" probably indicates that there's a chance he isn't. And if there's a chance you mustn't be hasty. Apparently killing an ally is a big no-no, hence why despite most of them not liking/fully trusting Fremy they still understood that they couldn't hurt Adlet while he had her hostage. This love for their ally should also be transferred over to Adlet who is still not 100% guilty. Nobody is saying they should turn a blind eye, tie him up, be humane about it, convince him you're willing to still think about alternative explanations. Don't decide he's guilty without valid proof and then try to kill him. I wonder why no one else thinks its fishy that he would casually reveal his own guilt that way. Even after being warned by Hans he still said the same story. Yeah sure they can chalk it up to him just being a daft enemy but they could also consider that he was legitimately framed. He's supposedly very cunning but not cunning enough to cover his tracks? No wouldn't, framing happens all the time in real life to innocent people. That is whole point of it in the first place. It hard anyone but the accused to know that they innocent to begin with when both reasonable evidence and motive exist that points to them. Whether Adlet killed or not is less important how the logic, caution and evidence aligned to reach that conclusion to begin with. In otherwords it doesn't matter they wrong or not as long as it was done under the most reasonable assumption, then it is an acceptable error. That's why Adlet was framed this way. Stop pretending that everyone walking in and accused Adlet as soon as he step into the room. Seriously you are not looking at this from POV of people 1) suspicious of each other. 2) has no reason to believe anyone of them is telling the truth unless back up by someone else. 3) are scrutinizing the holes found anyone's story that will lead to an incrimination. Your using you viewer POV and that doesn't work here unless somebody is a mind reader. One of the people in that room is a traitor and one of them is going do (or already has) something makes them suspicious. If evidence appears to cement that theory then of course person going be charged unless something there a strong contradiction to it. That person just happen to fall on was Adlet who you have clear bias in defending because you part of his POV unlike the people in freaking show. Well sorry I don't live in a world where I can believe that it is reasonable to kill an innocent as long as there seemed to be valid reason to. In the end you didn't try hard enough and you killed someone who didn't deserve it. No one is pretending everyone accused Adlet as soon as he walked in-.- There is suspicion on him that he's unable to clear alone, but it's still not sufficient evidence to deem him guilty and kill him. Maybe to lock him up and have him under house arrest but kill? Especially when the consequences of killing the wrong one is so dire? Please. If I should look at this from the POV of someone 1) suspicious of each other, i wouldn't immediately assume everything Head Saint is true. Nor would i believe Assassin's words are true. The same can be said for 2. For all they know 2 heroes are being held hostage somewhere and both Hans and Mora (who came together) are both in cahoots. If they can fake 1 crest why not 2? But fair enough, im looking through the eyes of a viewer. but even as a viewer i don't know who the actual 7th is, only that Adlet isn't. Which is why I can say that Mora is wrong because I also saw some suspicious behaviour done by others that she wasn't party too (cue the princess' crazy thrashing at the alter). But again my only main stipulation was that Mora shouldn't be relying so much on her emotions in making Adlet out to be some evil villain that is most definitely the 7th. Disagree if you like but the more we watch the more we will see. EDIT: additional comment. I'd like to add that I'm not saying the show did anything wrong. Mora and the others making this mistake is human. You can't expect everyone to be perfect and calmly consider all alternatives in a stressful situation. I'm merely speculating on things that should have been done differently in order to overcome this ordeal. It's certainly more interesting to watch them all attack Adlet and then see him solve the problem by himself. It Shows some great character development on his part. Will the self-proclaimed world's strongest prevail? |
InugirlzAug 26, 2015 9:16 PM
| Really loving this show. I binge watched all eight episodes in one night, and am now anxiously awaiting the next! I like how they've subverted what I thought they would do with this by making it into a mystery full of suspicion and betrayal, with the supposed heroes doing the opposite of what they so often do in anime; instead of banding together against the forces of evil from the start, they are deeply fractured and at each others' throats. And what's even better, I am legitimately intrigued by and interested in all of the characters (except maybe Chamot ... fuck Chamot). I thought this episode in particular was great - I think Adlet and Hans make a great pair. |
Inugirlz said: Again that's just one interpretation. You're saying he doesn't know as if you know for certain that was the case. But in the end it doesn't matter what Adlet actually was thinking the point is what the others chose to see. Do they assume he was too weak to hurt Fremy or that he CHOSE not to hurt her because he never really intended to. But I'm not saying they should suspect Fremy is lying and therefore the actual 7th. I'm saying they should consider the fact Fremy didn't actually have to escape but was let go because Adlet is actually good or at least never intended for the hostage situation to get so out of hand. Except they think Adlet is the 7th and he fled because since was caught red handed and out of options. Fremy reappears and tells them she managed to escape thanks to Adlet being heavily wounded (which what everyone saw). There is no reason for them to sudden go oh he's not the 7th when nothing points to contrary including Fremy's escape. Frankly if Adlet was the 7th and they exactly you said for no reason then he would win because the group would so easily change their minds for nothing. Except yes, both Hans and Goldov (not to mention Chamot with her constant let's torture/kill whoever seems suspicious) were quick to kill. Dude I don't think we watched the same episode. Literally the entire of ep 5 and 1/3 of ep 6 was the cast debating who the 7th was from piecing together things they knew up until the point the barrier was activated to search for suspicious behavior or inconsistencies. Hans said nothing about killing anyone, the only person Chamo wanted torture was Fremy for an entirely unrelated matter which everyone ignored. The only person to attack Adlet was last one to agree with majority opinion in ep 6 and that is a fact. They discussed, found a lead, but did NOT find solid evidence. Solid evidence would be someone having witnessed Adlet actually activate the barrier. All they know is that according to the sequence of events Adlet is likely the only person within there group who could have done it. Adlet is considering a possible 8th, it's not that farfetched to believe someone else is there hidden in the barrier. Also they didn't make a decision to actual attack him, instead of offering a vocal answer Godolv just went after him. That is fact. Except that is by far not the only form of solid evidence. Investigators in the real world link people to crimes that doesn't require witness at all. Such as weapons or items the culprits possessed, past history, the time of incident, the culprit's behavior, and kind of logic and testing. Furthermore if a witness is needed to find the 7th then aren't ever getting out of this barrier because there nobody see the 7th do it. They are all innocent which is stupid. The fact of matter is Adlet was the only one at grounds of the temple when barrier started, he was the only to break the seal and also the first to enter temple. The proof of all that is not only the seal reaction itself, but his own testimony (which Hans repeatedly if his story was correct) the others who saw him in there. There nothing else that suggests to anyone, he didn't activate the barrier to people there. If any of the other heroes had arrive before he broke the seal the on the temple his innocence could be vouched for what the viewers saw but that is not the case. They aren't going to suddenly assume he is innocent when it's clear the 7th will do anything to hide it identity and lie it's way of an situation. From what we see in the actual show. Mora is suspicious of Adlet but isn't 100% confident. Her exact words were "I believe Hans is correct, but before we kill him we should gather more information." This can be taken 2 ways. 1) she already thinks he's guilty and just wants to know his motive or 2) she thinks he's pretty guilty but is still willing to hear other explanations/put there heads together to make more sense of the situation. If 2 is the correct interpretation then this slight allowance she has for Adlet completely disappears after her opinion of him lowers and he takes the hostage. She's now quite confident and ruthless in her decision to kill him. Which in one sense seems fair because yes he did do something highly immoral but if she considers the fact that moments before Chamot is talking about torturing him and Goldov/Hans fully attacked him, it kinda isn't fair to suddenly take away his chance for explanation because he was defending himself. She thinks Adlet the 7th because most likely conclusion that matches the events to this incident. She and Hans already heard out most of his theories and they were all shutdown because of the holes in them. Because he cannot provide more plausible idea of how the barrier was turn on that has any sort of evidence to back it up (like door's reaction and Adlet being alone at temple in Hans theory) nobody has any choice to believe he is the culprit. Those maybes need something on level of Hans accusation otherwise they just theories. And there lies the problem with their thinking, why must the flustered accused have to prove his innocence all by himself? If they kill him and he turns out to be innocent they ALL lose. Adlet loses his life, and they lose a partner and are still stuck in the barrier with a fake. Rather than escalating things they should of all calmly sat down, put some more time into considering alternate explanations which Adlet would have definitely agreed to. There interrogation likely would have consisted entirely of "SO WHY DID YOU DO IT? HOW DID YOU DO IT/ETC" which would get them no where because Adlet's innocent. So instead they should all consider alternatives. But instead they all immediately agree he's guilty (minus Nachetanyia and Fremy who remained silent) and utter words like torture/kill. Then Godolv did rush him. Followed IMMEDIATELY by Hans. Chamot didn't rush but she would likely be next seeing as she's the next most impatient. It seems you still don't get this. Nobody going find the 7th if 1) everyone is telling the truth. 2) ignore any evidence that point to a specific person "just because". Whether Goldof attacked Aldet or not doesn't matter, he wouldn't be able answer of they questions if he stayed because he didn't do it, his own theories don't hold up and nobody will believe him of it except Nashetania. He knows this and would would have ranway with or without Goldof striking first. All i can say to this is the fact you use the word "probably lying" probably indicates that there's a chance he isn't. And if there's a chance you mustn't be hasty. Apparently killing an ally is a big no-no, hence why despite most of them not liking/fully trusting Fremy they still understood that they couldn't hurt Adlet while he had her hostage. This love for their ally should also be transferred over to Adlet who is still not 100% guilty. Nobody is saying they should turn a blind eye, tie him up, be humane about it, convince him you're willing to still think about alternative explanations. Don't decide he's guilty without valid proof and then try to kill him. Everyone including Adlet believes the 7th would lie about anything to keep the suspicion off him/her even if there evidence linking that person to incident like now. I wonder why no one else thinks its fishy that he would casually reveal his own guilt that way. Even after being warned by Hans he still said the same story. Yeah sure they can chalk it up to him just being a daft enemy but they could also consider that he was legitimately framed. He's supposedly very cunning but not cunning enough to cover his tracks? Only one person in that room recognized the Saint of Seal work and it wasn't even the one who is in charge of All Saints as one would expect. So chance of someone discovering what type of door of it was without being intimately familiar with it is low. So it's not strange. It's not as if the 7th is infallible and incapable of overlooking things. In the LN in the 7th's internal monologue he/she remarks that it wasn't expecting Adlet to escape the room. Well sorry I don't live in a world where I can believe that it is reasonable to kill an innocent as long as there seemed to be valid reason to.nIn the end you didn't try hard enough and you killed someone who didn't deserve it. No one is pretending everyone accused Adlet as soon as he walked in-.- There is suspicion on him that he's unable to clear alone, but it's still not sufficient evidence to deem him guilty and kill him. Maybe to lock him up and have him under house arrest but kill? Especially when the consequences of killing the wrong one is so dire? Please. Except it happens buddy http://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/10-infamous-cases-of-wrongful-execution.html Not is that what is happening in Rokka but apparently you keep ignoring that and the act like ep 5 never happened. Like nobody found evidence pointing Adlet to the barrier's activation, like nobody heard him out. Instead according to you he was just attacked and everyone magically accused him. If that case we can't have much discussion here especially when you refuse to recognized what happened or actual evidence. Fact of the matter everyone some level save for Nashetania believes his guilt for good reason. It being truth or not means nothing without evidence to the contrary. Adlet and Hans know this that why they out their looking irrefutable evidence which proves he isn't the 7th like the broken seal irrefutably implication him as culprit behind the barrier. It seems like you have forgotten this but the only reason they want to kill whoever is the 7th is because this person will not lift the barrier of their own accord. Everyone thinks Adlet is the 7th who has yet to come forward and surrender (of course because he didn't do it) so they resolved to kill him. The 7th is fake brave to begin with so his or her death won't affect the genuine Braves. Adlet has yet display anything points to him being a real Brave since there no proof he didn't setup the barrier. It is that simple. Frankly whether you think there is sufficient evidence or not to incriminate him is irrelevant, most of cast in the believes what they have here is big enough. And honestly no matter how things linked Adlet to being culprit the fact we know he didn't do wouldn't change. So our views are meaningless here. But fair enough, im looking through the eyes of a viewer. but even as a viewer i don't know who the actual 7th is, only that Adlet isn't. Which is why I can say that Mora is wrong because I also saw some suspicious behaviour done by others that she wasn't party too (cue the princess' crazy thrashing at the alter). And this problem with your whole argument. It's not about what you believe or your theories, it is what those in-verse know and believe. Nobody in the actual show has omniscient viewpoint like audience. So they can't just believe and disbelieve everything randomly. They can't ignore just crucial facts that makes someone and suspicious that supports one strong case over a bunch of unlikely weak ones. I mean if someone stuck in to start barrier as soon as Adlet broke the seal where the proof that supports that theory like Hans accusation? Are there any fingerprints? Dropped objects? Did they dig a hole to get in before Adlet got inside? If so where? These kind of things he brought up but none had anything pointing to them being true, like Adlet entering the temple and activating the barrier did. That just reality of situation from the cast perspective. I agree that Mora, Hans and everyone else is about wrong Adlet, but only because I the viewer witnessed what actual happened. If I didn't I wouldn't be able to say otherwise. EDIT: additional comment. I'd like to add that I'm not saying the show did anything wrong. Mora and the others making this mistake is human. You can't expect everyone to be perfect and calmly consider all alternatives in a stressful situation. I'm merely speculating on things that should have been done differently in order to overcome this ordeal. It's certainly more interesting to watch them all attack Adlet and then see him solve the problem by himself. It Shows some great character development on his part. Will the self-proclaimed world's strongest prevail? If that is the case it shouldn't be very difficult to see why almost everyone believes Adlet is the culprit regardless of whether they're right or wrong. The 7th clearly knew that what happened at the temple would be very damning to any credibility Adlet had which why he framed using it. The 7th also knew no alternate explanations he or anyone else brought up would hold up against what the broken seal meant in addition to everything else Braves know up about everything up til this point. |
Iron_MawAug 27, 2015 8:10 AM
Jagd84 said: the only person Chamo wanted torture was Fremy for an entirely unrelated matter which everyone ignored. The only person to attack Adlet was last one to agree with majority opinion in ep 6 and that is a fact. Clearly we both did watch a different epsiode because Chamot did suggest to torture Adlet and Hans did attack Adlet after Godolv. Which i have been saying-.- It wasn't only one person to attack him. Go rewatch since you're so confident it was only the last one to agree (Goldov) to attack. Except that is by far not the only form of solid evidence... It's evidence, but hardly solid. Evidence should prove something is true. All that piece of evidence truly proves is that Adlet was the only known one in the temple--not that he activated the barrier. But obviously with no other leads your gonna accuse him, that's fair. I've never thought it wasn't. When someone is framed you make it look as much as possible as if they did it. She thinks Adlet the 7th because most likely conclusion that matches the events to this incident. She and Hans already heard out most of his theories and they were all shutdown because of the holes in them. Because he cannot provide more plausible idea of how the barrier was turn on... I see you ignored my main issue which is the fact that they are letting Adlet alone come up with alternatives while also pressuring him. They all have something to lose for being wrong so they all should be a bit more considerate. It seems you still don't get this. Nobody going find the 7th if 1) everyone is telling the truth. 2) ignore any evidence that point to a specific person "just because". Whether Goldof attacked Aldet or not doesn't matter, he wouldn't be able answer of they questions if he stayed because he didn't do it, his own theories don't hold up and nobody will believe him of it except Nashetania. He knows this and would would have ranway with or without Goldof striking first. It seems that YOU don't get that what I'm saying are possible alternative reactions they could have done in order to overcome this ordeal. Everyone makes mistakes, and there mistake is to rely on this one piece of evidence to convict someone. They don't have to ignore the evidence, they just need to not hold it up as the holy grail. You don't know if he would have run away if they all agreed to keep an eye on him while they all walked around and continued looking. It's a possibility but not a fact. It seems that in your mind you believe there is absolutely nothing else they could have done to find the true culprit. Nothing's perfect so there's always a flaw. I'm not saying there's a fault with the storytelling because it's making the story progress interestingly. Everyone including Adlet believes the 7th would lie about anything to keep the suspicion off him/her even if there evidence linking that person to incident like now. What's the point of this comment? Obviously the 7th is gonna lie. Adlet never lied though, he tested potential other answers and told the truth about how he got there (which damned him). He was never caught in a lie, rather he was caught in the truth. Except it happens buddy http://www.criminaljusticedegreesguide.com/features/10-infamous-cases-of-wrongful-execution.html Not is that what is happening in Rokka but apparently you keep ignoring that and the act like ep 5 never happened. Like nobody found evidence pointing Adlet to the barrier's activation, like nobody heard him out. Instead according to you he was just attacked and everyone magically accused him. If that case we can't have much discussion here especially when you refuse to recognized what happened or actual evidence. Fact of the matter everyone some level save for Nashetania believes his guilt for good reason. It being truth or not means nothing without evidence to the contrary. Adlet and Hans know this that why they out their looking irrefutable evidence which proves he isn't the 7th like the broken seal irrefutably implication him as culprit behind the barrier. It seems like you have forgotten this but the only reason they want to kill whoever is the 7th is because this person will not lift the barrier of their own accord. .... Adlet has yet display anything points to him being a real Brave since there no proof he didn't setup the barrier. It is that simple. Frankly whether you think there is sufficient evidence or not to incriminate him is irrelevant, most of cast in the believes what they have here is big enough. And honestly no matter how things linked Adlet to being culprit the fact we know he didn't do wouldn't change. So our views are meaningless here. Ugh total missing my point. I never said those things don't happen. Obviously people are framed all that time and innocents die. But that's a mistake with the system with people not believing others and jumping to conclusions. My comment was directed towards YOU who was saying you'd be ok with damning an innocent if evidence pointed to them because it'd be an allowable mistake. And I'm disagreeing with that mindframe. You don't have to change your opinion to match mine. No one forgot anything. I know full well what they need to do to get out. I also know (and they should know too) that if you kill people left and right within the barrier without solid evidence pretty soon there will be none of them. Or better yet even if they kill only 1-2 before finding the real fake, their forces will already be so diminished that is there really any chance now of fighting the Majin? They still have a ways to go and lots of kyouma to get passed. Hence why instead of rushing they should at least consider a few more alternatives. There's no proof he didn't set up the barrier but also no conclusive proof he did. And as long as there's doubt he shouldn't be killed. Held captive maybe but killed? No. if the 7th wanted to damn him completely they would have actually made him accidentally start the barrier or something. Oh and do me a favour. Don't put words/interpretations into my mouth. I never said everyone attacked him without hearing him out. I said Goldov and Hans attacked him while they were still considering and once the doubt of Adlet was put in their mind no one else really tried to think hard anymore and left it entirely on Adlet to come up with a reason he might be cleared. Also I don't wanna hear the argument that onus is on the accused to prove their innocences. That's lazy thinking. If they all have something to lose they all should put their heads together. That way possible explanations won't be swept under the rug as lies by the accused and are actually carefully considered. They're lucky Adlet has a strong tenacity because otherwise they'd all be doomed-.- If they just hypothetically imagined he was actually innocent and moved with caution the situation wouldn't get out of hand and the 7th wouldn't be laughing at them. If that is the case it shouldn't be very difficult to see why almost everyone believes Adlet is the culprit regardless of whether they're right or wrong. The 7th clearly knew that what happened at the temple would be very damning to any credibility Adlet had which why he framed using it. The 7th also knew no alternate explanations he or anyone else brought up would hold up against what the broken seal meant in addition to everything else Braves know up about everything up til this point. it's not very difficult. That's what I said. |
InugirlzAug 27, 2015 10:31 AM
Nothing257 said: anyone know where to find the preview for the next episode? Don't think we got any previews In the first place. |
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| @Inugirlz, Rokka certainly isn't meant to be a mystery strong in logical thinking, which is what I think you're implying. It breaks many of Knox's Commandments for writing detective fiction, as for example, there is no main detective but there are many. However, Rokka excels in character development through actions/reactions of the characters and that means defying logical approaches, more like character case studies. |
Inugirlz said: I see you ignored my main issue which is the fact that they are letting Adlet alone come up with alternatives while also pressuring him. They all have something to lose for being wrong so they all should be a bit more considerate. What pressure or lack of consideration? What else are they supposed to say when his theories are flat out wrong? That he's right anyway? That someone actually dug hole in temple despite being no sign of entry and that guards would activated even there were (because the Seal affects the entire building)? That he's correct that the original or current Saint of Seals is the culprit despite former being dead for 4 years and later is still barely trained? Where is the sense go along what they know is in fact wrong just save him? I don't understand What's the point of this comment? Obviously the 7th is gonna lie. Adlet never lied though, he tested potential other answers and told the truth about how he got there (which damned him). He was never caught in a lie, rather he was caught in the truth. But that's the point isn't? They think Adlet is the 7th because of only him being around when the barrier activated. So nobody believes he is telling the truth. What reason do they have to think he is not lying with not only what has come to light, but how it matches up? His reputation? This guy broke into a honored sacred tournament and fought in direst manner anyone has ever seen which has earned him nickname the Cowardly Warrior and has spawn other terrible rumors floating about him. To that point Fremy and many other have expressed surprise that Nashetania even trust such a man. My point isn't that Adlet lied to anyone because he didn't. It's the fact there nothing else says that he didn't TO THEM. Nothing of equal or higher worth of the evidence of him breaking the seal, his testimony, or everyone else arriving after him. It's not as if their aren't not opened to other possibilities, but they fighting an insidious hard to catch enemy who will do and say anything avoid being caught in last possible moment. Disregarding their strongest lead with tangible evidence for others that don't logically work or have no tangibly to overturn that makes little sense. If you saying there isn't much solid evidence that points to Adlet as being the culprit and then even less that says he didn't do it because no evidence exists in alternate theories to counter at all until he himself finds one. If they just hypothetically imagined he was actually innocent and moved with caution the situation wouldn't get out of hand and the 7th wouldn't be laughing at them. And if Adlet was the 7th and the cast decided to disregard putting two and two together for pie in the sky theories he would be laughing his ass off. It goes both ways. Might as well not bother trying convict anyone by your logic no matter evidence point to them. Or at least avoid anything that might incriminate the main character. Everyone else is fair game though right? In any case I think we are just going have to agree to disagree. You are far to biased when comes to Adlet thanks to being in his POV alll the time that you can't separate that from what the characters in the show know or feel about him in my opinion. |
Iron_MawAug 27, 2015 7:40 PM
Jagd84 said: What pressure or lack of consideration? What else are they supposed to say when his theories are flat out wrong? That he's right anyway? That someone actually dug hole in temple despite being no sign of entry and that guards would activated even there were (because the Seal affects the entire building)? That he's correct that the original or current Saint of Seals is the culprit despite former being dead for 4 years and later is still barely trained? Where is the sense go along what they know is in fact wrong just save him? I don't understand Did you not read the part where I said none of them even tried to come up with their own theories and left everything to Adlet? That's the pressure/lack of consideration. But whatever you choose to ignore that point. No one says they should go along with untruth just for his sake. Assume what you want. Jagd84 said: In any case I think we are just going have to agree to disagree. You are far to biased when comes to Adlet thanks to being in his POV alll the time that you can't separate that from what the characters in the show know or feel about him in my opinion. Agreed because we're just going round and round in circles at this point. I would say the same thing had it been any of the other's because I would find it suspicious as a viewer of a mystery anime. I'm not biased towards Adlet. Obviously they don't have this same mind frame though because to them it's real and not just some mystery story. But i stand by my opinion that they ought to be more careful when deciding to kill each other. In the end there are better ways to go about the situation but they chose this one. Still interesting to watch. |
Inugirlz said: [Did you not read the part where I said none of them even tried to come up with their own theories and left everything to Adlet? That's the pressure/lack of consideration. But whatever you choose to ignore that point. No one says they should go along with untruth just for his sake. Assume what you want. But they can't think anything else, which is why they are allowing Adlet to come up with something that's might been overlooked. If they were could see more plausible alternates Hans and Mora wouldn't be putting him on the hotspot. Heck Hans himself even defended Fremy when he noticed things didn't match up about her being the 7th so it's like he and Mora have something against Adlet. But the shoe on the other foot has to drop at one point. |
| Mora (Moira) is the person who completely controls the information flow inside the story and can easily lie without anyone noticing. She has a complete knowledge of Saints and their power, along with the mechanic and restrictions of those power.As long as you are human saint, she knows about you everything. She obviously had no idea about Fremy as her power came from demons, it's logical. But she is expected to have a full knowledge about the Saints that build the barrier, the barrier inner working and means to activate and deactivate it. She is a Head Saint (Or high priestess, or whatever title she uses) which means she is one of the highest authorities in the entire country, theoretically outranking even the Priestess. If anyone had "security clearance", it's her! She is also in be best position to utilize the complex plans that involve powers of several Saints or installation that are "top secret" (barrier is such a thing, they just didn't use exact wording of "top secret" due to the setting vocabulary) Information she gives can't be verified by anyone! Hans knows only knowledge necessary for this assassin job, but is insufficient in given circumstances, so Moira input is given. Also, everyone in the setting expects that Head Saint (or Priestess or whatever) will never lie, which is naive. Actually, she is in the best position to manipulate everyone! (even tries so when he orders Adlet killed) She can lie in most of the part and no one will be able to tell the difference. Virtually nothing works without her giving her testimony on the matter and it is took for granted. Second person in good position to manipulate people is Nashetania due to her rank of royalty. She is even shown to do so in more obvious / suspicious way than Moira (and Moira still ignores) So far, virtually anyone in the setting can be the 7th, but most of them are not in the position to deploy such a complex plot without Moira or Nashetania (or both) assistance. For example, Hans is intelligent, but unable to deploy the plot without a risk of being foiled by Moira testimony. Chamo have power, but is unlikely act in a way plot require without Moira guidance and cover. etc etc |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| I like how the chemistry between Hans and Adelt changed after their fight. My impression on Hans changed because I first didn't really like how he seemed shady but now I like him. He has a respectable side to him when he was with Adlet facing against Chamo. Im guessing Maura or Nachetanya. Maura seems to know everything so no one will think it's her. Nachetanya.....just suspicious. It's like she loves Adelt and how she told Goldov that she knew about his feelings and said that there's no time for that and his jealousy. It seems fishy. |
Cxrl_12Aug 28, 2015 9:48 PM
beast_regards said: Mora (Moira) is the person who completely controls the information flow inside the story and can easily lie without anyone noticing. She has a complete knowledge of Saints and their power, along with the mechanic and restrictions of those power.As long as you are human saint, she knows about you everything. Saints can definitely hide a part of their power though. Because how mucha saint can do is dependant of the skill, affinity, effort in learning and so on of said saint. So Mora can clearly have loss of information here if a traitor want to play it "I'm not good at this" in front of Mora. beast_regards said: She is a Head Saint (Or high priestess, or whatever title she uses) which means she is one of the highest authorities in the entire country, theoretically outranking even the Priestess. If anyone had "security clearance", it's her! More like, think of her as the "pope" of that world. Saints are the head of their own temple and she's the head of them all. She's probably in the top 3 of the most respected peoples in the continent, if she isn't the most respected. |
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Zefyris said: [/quote]Saints can definitely hide a part of their power though. Because how mucha saint can do is dependant of the skill, affinity, effort in learning and so on of said saint. So Mora can clearly have loss of information here if a traitor want to play it "I'm not good at this" in front of Mora. Not really. Moira didn't had an idea about Fremy before they met as she was born, raised and trained as a fiend, not human, but any human saint training is either done by her, under her supervision or somehow couldn't happen without her knowing. She oversaw training of Nashetania and Chamo,. She also supervised all business with saint of Sun (who seems to have importance to the story). Only way how to get under Moira's radar is to be a fiend, which is how Fremy came to be (but you obviously have other restrictions if you are fiend) Zefyris said: beast_regards said: She is a Head Saint (Or high priestess, or whatever title she uses) which means she is one of the highest authorities in the entire country, theoretically outranking even the Priestess. If anyone had "security clearance", it's her! More like, think of her as the "pope" of that world. Saints are the head of their own temple and she's the head of them all. She's probably in the top 3 of the most respected peoples in the continent, if she isn't the most respected. I wanted to say that outranks the Princess (Nashetania). Either way, she is in position that everyone assumes she can't lie and she hold all the information. |
| Signature removed. It was too good for this cruel world. |
| I'm looking forward to the next Adlet x Hans fight. That was pretty disgusting LOL. |
| Very interesting episode. Luckily Adlet's throat getting slit was just an illusion! I'm still not sure why Chamot wouldn't know how to activate the barrier. Couldn't she have been lying about what she did before she got to the temple? Her ability is also really weird. Kinda reminds me of when I was a little kid and I would pretend all of the food in my stomach would plan to escape xD Nashetania and Goldof are being suspicious as well. For instance, when Nashetania told Goldof to leave her, then either one of them could have been able to kill someone else and not worry about being seen. |
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| I love Hans so much! And Adlet's underestimating himself with the "average man" thing, but oh well ~ I love how Hans immediately replied "Is she the seventh?" when Adlet said Chamo's name. And ooooh, that trust. Hans never lie, eh? :') ADLET & HANS VS CHAMO YEAAAAAA!! |
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| My suspicion of the princess just rose by a lot, and suspicion of Maura reduced slightly. Still think its definitely one of them. Heck who knows maybe Adlet is right and there are 8. I really liked this theory someone wrote about how the princess could've used her powers to close the seal without even entering. |
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| Now I think the 7th is Mora and she is helped by Chamo. She used Chamo to make appear a monster near the temple. In this episode we saw that her monsters aren't affected by the barrier. And on top of that, when Adlet talked about the monster to the others, Chamo said that she killed it. I'm almost sure that Chamo was used by Mora to distract Adlet and during this time, Mora activated the barrier. I love this kind of show when you need to think to the solution ! Another great episode, now Adlet has an ally. |
| I do not really understand why people are suspecting Nashetania tbh. She doesn't seem suspicious at all to me. Yeah, there's a possibility, but it's least likely. Why would she go to such lengths to prove Adlet's innocence if she was the seventh? And I am very content she corrected Goldof. My suspicion of Hans has decreased considerably as well I suppose, but Mora still seems very questionable. |
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