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| I dedicate my first post to this anime. A masterpiece in my opinion. Just what I was looking for. 10/10 |
 "Why did he have to surrender, what is more in the outside world, huh, sumptuousness, freedom? Nowhere in the world are you going to find them fools! Fools!" -USSR president, Future War 198X-nen |
| Loved the anime overall but I didn't really like the ending...well the series was always depressing and dark so why not end it on that note as well... |
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| The first half of the show until Yoshii's death was pretty captivating and unique. I loved the setting and background story and once they went above ground I was mesmerized. However, that middle part with the incest-born bishounen villain initiating the destruction of everything seemed too generic and not worthy of the great build up. Ultimately, this series main weakness is its characters. Ichise never quite amounted to anything, same goes for Ran. The main villain lacked proper motivation and people just ran off getting turned into texhnolyzed soldiers for no apparent reason. For the most part still an interesting watch but not coherent enough to make it big. |
| Well I had a feeling everyone will die in the end. In any case, the ending was good without a doubt. The show itself was really interesting, loved the plot. |
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| Enjoyed this one a lot. We really don't get too many of these kinds of anime very often, especially today where everyone's trying to out-moe each other. It ended the way it started. No heroic protagonist saving the day at the last minute. Ran said many people would die and Ichise would be all alone, and that's what happened. Consistency! |
| 7/10 |
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| Just finished it, I had higher expectations then what it reached but still fairly good. Only complaint is the lighting in some part was so bad you couldn't even tell what was going on. |
| Common Sense Is Not So Common. Message me for reccomendations or just to talk anime. |
| A very jarring watch, but totally worth it. |
 Just this once, I'll fulfill whatever your wish is. |
| This must be one of the best anime ever made. I think people don't understand it or consider it very dark and hard, that's why most of them don't give it so high rank. Texhnolyze is more about evolution of the human species. The world above is not consumed by technology as it is said in the article, but is just dying because all the people got rid all of their "animal side" and lost their passions and are just waiting to die. In the other hand on Lukuss the people are pretty violent and are going towards their self destruction as well. So the only thing that could be done to save humanity is to change/evolve. Ichise seems to understand that at the last episode but it's already too late. Many of symbolism in the series are left for me to understand so I'm gonna watch this again slowly and search for other people's interpretations. |
| 私の力はあなたの理解を超えています |
GypaetusBarbatus said: I dedicate my first post to this anime. A masterpiece in my opinion. Just what I was looking for. 10/10 I will also dedicate my first post to Texhnolyze. When Ichise glanced at the holographic flower protruding from his texhnolyzed arm and gave his first and final smile, I knew I was witnessing one of the most beautiful moments I had ever seen in any anime.. and to think it came from a series that embodies the darkest nihilistic atmosphere. It is too hard to explain, but after seeing that I felt the slightest bit of hope. Maybe Ichise believed that there was meaning in his existence, and was able to die peacefully. That truly shows the quality of this ending, knowing how dark it is in nature, but to still pick out something beautiful. |
Camer138 said: I believe it's because he blamed himself.why when they go back to the surface does that guy tell his boss that he murdered Yoshi? When really it was Ichese and Oonishi who killed him |
| I am important. I have a girlfriend. Check out my podcast |
PacoJastorius said: GypaetusBarbatus said: I dedicate my first post to this anime. A masterpiece in my opinion. Just what I was looking for. 10/10 I will also dedicate my first post to Texhnolyze. When Ichise glanced at the holographic flower protruding from his texhnolyzed arm and gave his first and final smile, I knew I was witnessing one of the most beautiful moments I had ever seen in any anime.. and to think it came from a series that embodies the darkest nihilistic atmosphere. It is too hard to explain, but after seeing that I felt the slightest bit of hope. Maybe Ichise believed that there was meaning in his existence, and was able to die peacefully. That truly shows the quality of this ending, knowing how dark it is in nature, but to still pick out something beautiful. I think you're quite right. People are a bit quick to label the series as a bottomless pit of nihilism when the last few minutes of the show so perfectly release the catharsis that's sort of been bottled up and very slowly building throughout all of its episodes. I hope people aren't so quick to dismiss the series in such a manner, and perhaps consider Ichise and Ran a bit more in the grand scheme of things in the midst of all the brutality and hopelessness. The show's definitely trying to say something about the genuine nature of their relationship and the heroism/selflessness that Ichise exhibits by the series' end, rather than trying to pound us into submission regarding the hopelessness of life or whatever. |
BlebsAug 24, 2013 4:34 PM
| Okay, this was really one of the best shows I've ever watched. I managed to tie up most of the plot pieces, except for two of them by the end (regarding Ran, that I had to read online to understand), and it was truly amazing. At first it didn't seem as depressing as people claimed it to be, but from the episode they reached the surface until the last episode, then I saw what they meant. In the second half I was afraid Kano was gonna be a shitty villain, but in the last episode I could finally understand him. This is now the second best setting I've seen in anime (after Shinsekai Yori), and the best depressing ending (unlike the failure of End of Evangelion). 10/10 |
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sorashika said: Many of symbolism in the series are left for me to understand so I'm gonna watch this again slowly and search for other people's interpretations. Yup, this show is replete with symbolism, the most obvious being Ran as Theoria. Kano himself points this out towards the end. Ran is Theoria, and the flower she's selling is Beauty. Here's an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on Theoria: "Taking philosophical and theological traditions into consideration, the term was used by the ancient Greeks to refer to the act of experiencing or observing and then comprehending through consciousness, which is called the nous or "eye of the soul". Insight into being and becoming through the intuitive truth called faith, in God, leads to truth through our contemplative faculties. This theory, or speculation, as action in faith and love for God, is then expressed famously as "Beauty shall Save the World"..." Remember, Ran ends up commiting suicide because of Kano (a false god). |
AnagnorisisAug 31, 2013 3:56 AM
| A show for the master race. Conclusion, a deep and depressing series. 9 of 10. |
| Sweet mother of....what a ride. This is one of the most thought provoking anime I've seen in ages. Not the kind of thing that will appeal to the "Shounen Jump" crowd. Definitely a "show, don't tell" kind of series that let's you decide what is and what isn't. Memorable stuff. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
| Im gonna rewatch this at one point to get another view at things, but the point this guy makes is very relevant for this series. |
| "Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii There is a cult of ignorance (...) nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” Isaac Asimov |
Yanqui said: Marzan said: Im gonna rewatch this at one point to get another view at things, but the point this guy makes is very relevant for this series. I'm always glad when someone finishes the series and gets more out of it than 'it was a hopeless nihilistic bottomless pit of despair story where everything was pointless the end' because I really do think that's doing an injustice to the series, and your posts reflected my watching experience pretty closely. That said, I also think igalko's take borders on fantasy. There are no "endless opportunities" for the few survivors left in Lux that I can see (who seem mainly to be nothing more than murderous, half-insane marauders) - there's no way left to access the Surface, remember? The staircase was destroyed, as was the train tunnel. Everyone left in Lux is most likely trapped there for good. Everything about the tone and direction of those last episodes says that this is it for Lux, and by extension of that, humanity. There's nothing that I can recall that suggests rebuilding or rebirth, either in Lux or on the Surface. Ran certainly did take action to try to save the city, and I think it's also a very real possibility she was supportive of Yoshii's plans, at least at the start - at the beginning of the show Onishi says that it's been a while since the voice of the city has spoken to him and she never tells anyone about the chaos Yoshii is going to unleash because maybe she realizes he's the only one capable of truly changing things (or maybe the future she saw for him was simply not the one Yoshii ended up choosing). It's a really interesting possibility. But suggesting that Ran had some master-plan the entire show to save humanity seems like a really big stretch. She didn't "let" Ichise be harmed - he was maimed before she even met him and had no way of stopping him from getting beaten up and thrown in a sewer. She didn't nurture Onishi to be her executioner, she chose to 'speak' to him all those years because he was capable of preserving peace and keeping the city from falling apart. She fell into despair in the middle of the series and did nothing but be depressed for several episodes because of what she was seeing, and her plan to gather people at the Obelisk seemed much more like a last-ditch effort than part of a long-laid plot that she had developed. Either way, she united everyone for one last stand, but she was taken and everyone either died or went mad. Ran truly did want to save the city, but despite her best efforts she wasn't able to. I just can't really understand how anything about the state of the few people left in Lux at the end could be viewed as a victory. I certainly don't want to tell anyone their views are just wrong , but I also don't really think it's fair to the show to try to twist events to fit an interpretation to the point where you can look at it and really believe that "the humans in this story just smashed their way out of a dead end and got a new lease on life" which I just can't really wrap my head around. Taken on the large-scale, 'humanity as a whole' level, Texhnolyze is a story about failure, not triumph. Every single institution of humanity in the show fails. The Organo failed because everyone aside from Onishi was more concerned with their own individual gains, The Union failed because they were just a collective hive-mind with no individual will, the Racan failed because they' were nothing BUT individual will and ego,The Class failed because they completely shut themselves away from the rest of the world and lived in complete isolation, and finally the Theonormal failed because they banished any sort of strife or conflict to the point they completely lost any will to grow as a species or to even live at all. But if you look at it on an individual, character basis, you see at least some goodness and hope. Ichise starts the series as the stray dog that he was so aptly called - someone so completely numbed by anger and grief that the only time he feels anything is when he's hurting someone or being hurt himself and seems incapable of caring about anyone or anything other than his own survival. Ran is similar in that she's also completely isolated from other people due to her position as the Seer - she's surrounded by people that don't see her as a person but as a deity when in reality she's a scared little girl who is alone (this much I agree with). But then they both meet and their meeting causes Ichise to slowly start to change. He sees Onishi for the good man that he is and comes to respect and admire him. He recognizes that Doc isn't just some creepy manipulative scientist, but that she truly wanted to better humanity through her Texhnolyze. After hearing Ran's prophecy, he wonders if the fact that he "doesn't know anything" will be why he destroys everything and will be left all alone, and asks Doc to someday teach him the things that she knows. Hell, he even gets a FRIEND in Toyama - something that would be absolutely foreign to the Ichise of the first episode. Ichise is asked several times what HE wants to do, but he never has an answer. He's found it by the end of the show where his own survival is irrelevant to him now and his only concern is saving Ran. There IS triumph in the show, and it's found in their relationship. Ran recognized his pain and struggle and gave him some basic human kindness, and as a result of something so simple he radically transformed as a person for the better. Could individual triumph on such a small-scale be seen as inconsequential in the face of the rest of humanity failing on such a grand scale as depicted in the show? Maybe. But I think that's one of the things the show was saying- find something or someone you consider worth living/dying for on your own without relying on someone else or some group to provide it for you. Texhnolyze may be saying that humanity as a whole will forever be flawed, but it also says that it's never too late for yourself to change, no matter damaged or broken you are. That may not be as uplifting as thinking that the humans in Texhnolyze will go on to lead better lives and rebuild humanity for the better, but I think it's a more truthful to the nature of the show and a remarkably beautiful message for a something that's so sad and depressing. P.S. This far too long post isn't meant as an attack or anything, it's just my take on things. I always love your posts. |
"Yanqui" said: Could individual triumph on such a small-scale be seen as inconsequential in the face of the rest of humanity failing on such a grand scale as depicted in the show? Maybe. But I think that's one of the things the show was saying- find something or someone you consider worth living/dying for on your own without relying on someone else or some group to provide it for you. That line of thinking is dangerously close to Existential Nihilism. :) By adopting & promoting a completely *subjective* raison d'etre, you're highlighting the lack of any intrinsic meaning in life. How can you be triumphant in a world where everything is doomed to fail--relationships, change, evolution included? Ichise's reason for living ends up killing herself, remember? That's the irony of the whole thing. |
| Pure subjectivity would only result in discordance and chaos... |
AnagnorisisOct 11, 2013 11:47 PM
| Uh... so many unexplained things it hurts. The series doesn't give do a good job showing characters motives sometimes. Kanno was a horrible character, Yoshii was a much much better. A unique series indeed, but I feel like it could've been much better so I'm kinda disappointed, I can't see how it's the masterpiece some people claim it to be. |
| Going to have to agree, I did like the series however I can't say it was "good". Sure it was original and sure it did do a lot of cool things however the plot itself had a metric shit ton of things left unexplained. My major problem was why did the humans on the surface give up living? What were they facing? It was hinted that many lacked the ability to reproduce however even that was never verified as being the cause, in fact that was only mentioned by Doc, a member of the class, not the humans on the surface. It quite literally never explained why the gave up living, or even why they weren't "human" anymore . . . I mean they were definitely not human, however why? What did they do to themselves? Then the class . . . Why were they not allowed to the surface? Why did they willingly stay below? Of course who Kanno was was also random . . . He seemed to have some goal to do what he did, however he just seemed to want to "evolve" humanity however how could that occur if they would be permanently frozen? Why did the fortune teller say that Ichise would kill many people and be responsible for so much death? He surely did kill a few, however she implied he would be responsible for the death of the city, then later blames herself for the city's "death" . . . It makes no sense what she was even predicting as it seemed to never come true. Which also leads to the inconsistency of how her powers worked, at the beginning they said she just foresees one possible future however after that the people of Gabe always stick to the premise that what she sees is what will be, and the the future she sees cannot be changed. Of course there are countless of other plot holes that were never explained, and I could keep going . . . However the main point is that this series was interesting, but did a rather poor job of keeping a consistent plot. Normally I would give this a 6/10 or maybe even a 5/10 however I am feeling rather good today so giving it a 7/10, though that is subject to change. |
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Pirating_Ninja said: I can't say I agree for the most part. I will agree that what seems to be the weak point of the series is that the Class is never quite fully fleshed out -- an episode or two dedicated to revealing the intricacies of their existence would have been great apart from the few details we get; that is, their isolation from the rest of the exiles, their similar physical appearance (red eyes, pale, gaunt+frail) and their possible incestuous means of reproduction. More details on the Class would have certainly helped with the understanding of Kano as well.Going to have to agree, I did like the series however I can't say it was "good". Sure it was original and sure it did do a lot of cool things however the plot itself had a metric shit ton of things left unexplained. My major problem was why did the humans on the surface give up living? What were they facing? It was hinted that many lacked the ability to reproduce however even that was never verified as being the cause, in fact that was only mentioned by Doc, a member of the class, not the humans on the surface. It quite literally never explained why the gave up living, or even why they weren't "human" anymore . . . I mean they were definitely not human, however why? What did they do to themselves? Saginuma quite clearly states in episode 19 that they carry only 'dominant genes' and will never suffer from bodily harm -- and also that if they did, they would not try to do anything about it because they simply don't care about moving forward as a species anymore. "Humanity has grown old. The only thing left is slow death". In episode 20 you also see that Saginuma's really an old man with orthotics (as opposed to Texhnolyzed prosthetics underground) fused into/supporting his legs, and the little-girl-carrying-a-ball avatar he's got seems to run away and disappear in the same vein of the other ghosts you see in the episode prior. He then states that they, the Theonormal (as a species, he notes) are on the verge of extinction even though they supposedly eliminated 'dangerous elements' from their existence... that is, the 'monstrous' humans in Lux. The surface-dwellers have banished all forms of strife and conflict in their lives, both of which are necessary for humanity to grow and move forward, or even to live (as Yanqui has said before). That's why they've given up, and that's why they are no longer human. Then the class . . . Why were they not allowed to the surface? Why did they willingly stay below? I don't think they were willingly staying below. They were very clearly restricted underground like the rest of the exiles, and the only reason they seemed to be tolerated or acknowledged by the surface-dwellers (Onishi believes that they'll at least listen to what Doc has to say because she's a member of the Class) is because of the Raffia shipments that are collected. Doc only says in episode 20 that she believes that one day the people of the Class could move back to the surface "if they wanted to"... "Because we are the people who should by right live above-ground".But of course, their whole reason for existence (and by extension, Lux itself) is revealed to be a mere purposeless formality in episode 19. Of course who Kanno was was also random . . . He seemed to have some goal to do what he did, however he just seemed to want to "evolve" humanity however how could that occur if they would be permanently frozen? He's not really random, but he's definitely inscrutable -- you can attribute to his being a pretentious sociopathic solipsist, and also to what I mentioned about the Class being a bit murky.You can contrast him to Yoshii in trying to shake up a society that's very much in stasis. Whereas Yoshii wants to 'awaken' the people of Lux and incite change by ridding them of the Class, Kano wants a sort of functional physical/aesthetic perfection, which he defines in the fifteenth episode when he deconstructs Onishi's ideal of stability and status quo and asserts his own ideas, by removing people from the human body and seeing just how far he can go with Texhnolyzation (Shapes and whatnot). This is all understandable -- he's birthed by the Class' incest ("My mothers gave birth to father... then mated with him to give birth to me") and is born with deformed legs. In the last episode he states that he knew that the surface world was about to die out, which implies that he knew all along that the reason for the Class and the exiles' existence really meant nothing in the end, so he's similar to Yoshii in how he's trying to pursue a 'revolution' of sorts for a society that's completely mired in stasis and a (nonexistent) status quo. They just go about it in some very different ways (but they sort of blend a bit). He also states in the last episode that he (and the Shapes, of course) are now rooted to the ground and 'exist' alongside Lux (all in his mind, apparently) in order to endure the long time it will take for them to 'evolve' into a different life form. Why did the fortune teller say that Ichise would kill many people and be responsible for so much death? He surely did kill a few, however she implied he would be responsible for the death of the city, then later blames herself for the city's "death" . . . It makes no sense what she was even predicting as it seemed to never come true. Ran doesn't blame herself for the city's death, she blames herself for driving the city insane (she shows them her visions of the future). Ichise's prophecy is followed through because he killed Yoshii -- there's very strong evidence that she was 'helping' or guiding him to do what he did. But Ichise only receives her prophecy in hindsight, after the deed's been done. Note that in the episode where Yoshii dies she says "After all, nothing ever changes", and in the following episodes she begins to suffer from the terrible burden of her visions. She states that she doesn't want to see anything anymore, because what small hope was left was snuffed out by Ichise, which you can't really blame him or anybody for, other than the fact that apart from Yoshii and Kano nearly everybody is confined by limited perspective and perception (Yoshii alludes to this when he talks to Shinji, saying that because he's not 'from' Lux he can see a lot more than anybody else). Which also leads to the inconsistency of how her powers worked, at the beginning they said she just foresees one possible future however after that the people of Gabe always stick to the premise that what she sees is what will be, and the the future she sees cannot be changed. That's not an inconsistency of how her powers worked, that's the way Gabe chooses to interpret her visions. I believe a huge part of the series is just how various ideologies, philosophies and perspectives are clashing. In episode 13, it's hammered in that the Village of Gabe ascribe to the notion of 'fate' very strongly, even if there is the possibility for different futures and hope. (Onishi, when talking to the Elder says that a person who would accept 'fate' and inevitability seems to be a very rare person indeed, and the Elder says that that is "not the language of Gabe, it is of your people."). In episode 1 the brief future 'flash' of Elder/Sage of Gabe's death is thwarted by Yoshii. Hell, Ichise's survival in the early episodes as well as Yoshii's whole arc point to this. But Gabe is fatalistic to the point where they actively work against everybody else to ensure the future she's seen to come true (defending Iwata when he defects to the Class, supplying the Class with a massive amount of high quality weapons, for crying out loud!). Ran's deteriorating physical/mental state and this fatalism is also why there's a division in Gabe in episode 16 -- a large amount of the villagers are not satisfied that their people are being murdered because that's supposedly their inevitable fate, and also that they don't want to sit idly by as things go to hell. This is all pretty clearly stated and shown in the respective episodes. It's only when Ran goes to the city one last time to face the future she's seen that Gabe does anything different (they say they have to protect the Seer no matter what -- it's when most of them leave Gabe and Gotoh remains there), but it's far too late by then. Of course there are countless of other plot holes that were never explained, and I could keep going . . . Well, go ahead! However the main point is that this series was interesting, but did a rather poor job of keeping a consistent plot. I honestly thought that the show did a great job of that, and it's far more coherent and linear than say... Lain or something, which was also written by Konaka. |
BlebsNov 10, 2013 1:08 PM
| You can't say "The class were not fully fleshed out" Because they were never even partially fleshed out, Even the latter comments I made (Which I will go in to detail later on) You only speculated on. (for example the lack of any definitive answer as to why the class never left to go outside) First let's start back with the "theornormals", he mentioned that they were free of disease, and that they were free of strife, and implied that they were slowly dying because of this. However the question then is why didn't they personally bring the humans from the bottom back up? They clearly desired change, as suggested by when the guy with orthotics tries to convince Ichise not to leave. As if he is the key to bring life back to a ghost town. In other words, the people below are necessary to breath live back in to humanity. Why then did they not bring them back? If they realized that humanity would die without it, why did they continue on for so much longer, not bother to fix the situation, surely in the beginning stages of their decay they would have had a desire to fix the situation. And the answer was quite clear. However, this doesn't answer the problem of what did they do to themselves? This series was Sci-Fi, not Supernatural. So, theoretically, they were not ghosts. So, what were they? And for what purpose did they do something like make themselves less human if they ultimately just wanted to die? As for the class not going up. There was no reason why the class themselves couldn't have just gone up . . . And supposedly the class were still "human" as opposed to those who dwelled on the surface, so one would think they had some desire to live instead of die in what they too probably viewed as hell. Furthermore why did they do the bidding of the people on the top? What was in it for them? Perhaps keeping the air shaft or whatever open. However I would imagine that escaping from that place to the surface would be relatively easy considering that their was absolutely no security and the top didn't even care too much for invasion. The could have just left the way Ichise got down. Surely they were capable of making a machine that could go up that shaft, given the fact they were able to make a flying orb that could sort of "pixelate" or w/e anything. As far as Ran goes, she blames herself for the city going insane, however also acknowledges the city's insanity as being it's descent to death. Furthermore, Ran doesn't say "Your action's lead to the death of many people" but rather "your actions WILL lead to the death of many people" when she gave him her fortune, she made it very clear that he would do something later on. Perhaps she was referring to when he killed Kano since perhaps they would have evolved, but now that Kano died, they are screwed. However that would be extremely vague, and without any explanation of what Kano meant by their evolving, or how it would happen, it could only ever be speculation. You misunderstand, when I mentioned her powers and the inconsistency of them, the chief of Gabe is the one who describes her powers both times, saying at one point that she sees only one path however for the majority of the series afterwards makes a very firm statement that what she sees Cannot be changed. These two interpretations of her power are VERY different, and since the chief was never shown to have some epiphany, or change in thought to such a large extent, one could only view this change to be for nothing more than convenience. Since the "apocalypse" had to happen, her prophecies had to come true. Whereas prior, it wasn't necessary to the plot that what she saw be correct 100% of the time. |
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Pirating_Ninja said: Can you explain how the details I provided weren't a means of describing or fleshing them out at all? There's already quite a bit of information about the Class, be it their physical appearance (and frailty), the representative in episode 10 demanding that the place in which he's meeting Gotoh/the Organo to discuss the recent problems needs to be 'cleaned' of its scent, the fact that they've been isolating themselves from the rest of the people underground, everything that Kano's mothers talk about (blaming Kano's actions on Onishi's legs, for one, in addition to talking about 'the natural order of things'), the Raffia Pool (and the creatures within) in episode 21.... how is this 'never even partially fleshed out?' The thing that's missing is why Kano is considered a 'heretic' to the Class, and that's because we don't ever really get to see what exactly goes on in the Class, their rituals and hierarchy and whatnot.You can't say "The class were not fully fleshed out" Because they were never even partially fleshed out First let's start back with the "theornormals", he mentioned that they were free of disease, and that they were free of strife, and implied that they were slowly dying because of this. However the question then is why didn't they personally bring the humans from the bottom back up? He says that the people underground were isolated to protect the Theonormal, but he also offers that it might have been that the previous generations had pinned their hopes for humanity on the people underground, which factors into what you say, but he calls it speculation. Clearly they've passed the point where they even care about what happens to humanity anymore. They clearly desired change, as suggested by when the guy with orthotics tries to convince Ichise not to leave. As if he is the key to bring life back to a ghost town. That they 'clearly desired change' is iffy. Saginuma extends his invitation because just before he asks Ichise to stay, he tells him that the staircase has been destroyed (thus destroying any feasible means of going back/to the surface or the underground) Saginuma's request for Ichise to stay is something he calls selfish, not particularly indicative of 'you can save everything!' He doesn't even make an effort to stop him when he leaves, which doesn't make me think that they wanted change all that much, especially if Ichise is 'the key' to bringing life back as you say.Like I quoted in the last post, Saginuma says that "Humanity has grown old. The only thing left is slow death," in addition to saying that there is absolutely no point in utilizing Raffia or Texhnolyzation. It doesn't make sense that he'd have a change of heart in the next episode, even given his speculation about the purpose of confining people underground. I mean, by this point, the only people left underground are Shapes that have been rooted to the earth and insane rapists/marauders. Both the surface and the underground have failed. In other words, the people below are necessary to breath live back in to humanity. Why then did they not bring them back? If they realized that humanity would die without it, why did they continue on for so much longer, not bother to fix the situation, surely in the beginning stages of their decay they would have had a desire to fix the situation. And the answer was quite clear. There's never any indication that they believed the people underground were 'necessary'. Hell, the whole reason they're separated in the first place is because prior to building Lux, the people that would go underground were rounded up and exterminated (the little film at the end of episode 19 that Doc is absolutely horrified to see, and remember that she was a member of the Class). Again, the only thing that seems to support what you've said about the exiles being necessary is Saginuma's mere speculation that 'our parents' parents' generation pinned their hopes on your people,' but this is also why he believes that they were separated in the first place. There's not much to suggest that the surface-dwellers ever wanted them to 'intermingle' with the people they massacred and subsequently banished.At the very least, the conversation Ichise has with the Theonormal in episode 20 where both of them talk about going/staying to Lux and the Surface respectively might hint at this, but the scene seems more like a sad acknowledgement that neither of them would belong where they're invited. However, this doesn't answer the problem of what did they do to themselves? This series was Sci-Fi, not Supernatural. So, theoretically, they were not ghosts. So, what were they? And for what purpose did they do something like make themselves less human if they ultimately just wanted to die? I don't know why it should matter if it's Sci-Fi or Supernatural -- Ran has the gift of foresight... that doesn't sound outwardly 'Sci-Fi'. Based on what we see, the Theonormals are quite advanced (orthotics built into their bodies, being able to 'project' avatars in the case of the little girl/ball Saginuma, the other ghosts we see that flicker out of existence on the surface). Sakimura says that they're not 'fully' human, and note that he and Yoshii are both Theonormals as well. Also remember the prominent shading on almost every surface dweller we see, which is indicative of how they've given up on living... but they continue to 'exist' because they're content with that until they slowly die out. Sakimura and Doc are both 'shaded in' as well once Ichise goes back to the underground. I think the 2012 ANN review of the series quite appropriately described them as "technological phantoms"... but there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest that they're still partially 'physical' (which seems to be in lin with what Sakimura says about them not being 'fully' human) just with Saginuma's final appearance, Sakimura and Yoshii, and the old man that Ichise talks to who makes coffee.As for the class not going up. There was no reason why the class themselves couldn't have just gone up . . . And supposedly the class were still "human" as opposed to those who dwelled on the surface, so one would think they had some desire to live instead of die in what they too probably viewed as hell. Furthermore why did they do the bidding of the people on the top? What was in it for them? Perhaps keeping the air shaft or whatever open. However I would imagine that escaping from that place to the surface would be relatively easy considering that their was absolutely no security and the top didn't even care too much for invasion. The could have just left the way Ichise got down. Surely they were capable of making a machine that could go up that shaft, given the fact they were able to make a flying orb that could sort of "pixelate" or w/e anything. Why would the Class, or anyone else underground for that matter, even fathom that they were 'free' to go up on a whim? The people living underground have lived there for over a century (based on what Kano says about Lux's history of a hundred years' worth of bloodshed, but the fact that the cities erected underground are destroyed/reborn constantly suggest that Gabe and the Class have existed there for longer than the city), and things have stayed the same for that long. Remember that Lux exists for the sole reason of providing Raffia for the surface, and has done so for an incredibly long time. There was no reason for anybody underground to think that "Hey guys, the surface is unguarded and sparse and we're free to do what we wish!" until it was revealed. There's no reason that they could ever just decide to go up -- it's this kind of stasis/status quo, very much brought about by the Class, that make Yoshii and Kano want to change things. Also note that it takes a great deal of shit hitting the fan before Kano's mothers even task Onishi and Shinji with going to the surface to warn the people there -- the Class seemed to have been fine with what Kano was doing until he apparently wanted to invade the surface. Everybody underground was forcefully isolated there by the surface-dwellers. Again, the short film in episode 19 shows that the surface dwellers slaughtered them en masse until they decided just to shove them underground while they attempted to 'evolve' without the influence of the 'dangerous elements'. And to address how they might have been able to 'go back up' even after the staircase is destroyed, it probably wasn't possible. By the time Ichise's reached Lux again (a one-way trip in itself), all the Class are wiped out by Shinji and there's really no way to return. The Obelisk has rendered all Texhnolyze useless (and by extension, possibly all of the more 'high-tech' stuff underground and the flying Disco Ball of Doom you mentioned because it's clearly incapacitated when Shinji goes for his spectacle on the Hill). When Ichise comes back down there's no way he's going back up, even though he states his intent to take Ran up there with him. As far as Ran goes, she blames herself for the city going insane, however also acknowledges the city's insanity as being it's descent to death. Furthermore, Ran doesn't say "Your action's lead to the death of many people" but rather "your actions WILL lead to the death of many people" when she gave him her fortune, she made it very clear that he would do something later on. Perhaps she was referring to when he killed Kano since perhaps they would have evolved, but now that Kano died, they are screwed. However that would be extremely vague, and without any explanation of what Kano meant by their evolving, or how it would happen, it could only ever be speculation. Again, she gives Ichise her prophecy in hindsight -- she doesn't want to tell him when he notices that he's avoiding her (episode 11) because like she says, the things she has seen are already starting to come true, as well as her not wanting to see anything anymore/'accepting' the future she's seen as the Elder says, and she doesn't actually tell Ichise his future until episode 13 when she believes it's too late to change anything. Yoshii, who was probably the person she pinned her hopes for humanity on, was killed by Ichise with brings about the doomsday scenario she sees... and ultimately plays out.It's pretty clear that Ran believed that Yoshii's actions (wiping out the Class) would prevent Kano's invasion, or else she wouldn't make the harrowing choice to face the future she'd seen (and ultimately failed to prevent) and gather people at the Obelisk/have them fight the Shapes one last time. You misunderstand, when I mentioned her powers and the inconsistency of them, the chief of Gabe is the one who describes her powers both times, saying at one point that she sees only one path however for the majority of the series afterwards makes a very firm statement that what she sees Cannot be changed. These two interpretations of her power are VERY different, and since the chief was never shown to have some epiphany, or change in thought to such a large extent, one could only view this change to be for nothing more than convenience. Since the "apocalypse" had to happen, her prophecies had to come true. Whereas prior, it wasn't necessary to the plot that what she saw be correct 100% of the time. I'm not really seeing what's 'different' here. 'Seeing only one path' and then 'the path she sees cannot be changed' are inter-related and very relevant and consistent to what happens as the series goes on -- especially because Gabe works hard to make sure what she says come true. That's simply what's always been done in Gabe, based on everything the Elder says and does (the Elder also talks about the cycle of rebirth that goes on underground... but by the time of the series this seems to be at its end). |
BlebsNov 10, 2013 7:14 PM
| 6/10 I admit it, don't really understand anything that happened in this series. I don't get watch happened at in the last episode.. except that everyone might have died.. And people weren't people. And some other stuff. Sure, I'm totally up for not getting a series and having to watch something multiple times to understand it.. But the idea of watching this again, with how slow paced it was that just makes me cringe. Maybe I'll revisit this anime in a few years. |
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| Huh? So, basically everybody went insane and died? Sent with Mal Updater |
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| Nice anime! Now I gotta watch a few silly anime before I can face something of this caliber again... |
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| Most fu<k!ng weirdest anime with the saddest fricking ending. What the actual (insert you know what) why did she have to end up like that, it totally broke my feelings xD. Anyways the anime itself is a piece of art and all about the story with as little words as possible. Basically it was about the last months of humanity with the main point of view on the man who tried his best surviving. Would have been nice to have Ran alive at the end and because of that I'll say a solid 7/10. Otherwise would have been 8/10. |
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GoGo_Dominatrix said: Huh? So, basically everybody went insane and died? I don't know if this has been mentioned before but... In Japan there's this thing called kitsunetsuki. It means 'possessed by a fox'. Before the advent of modern medicine, Japanese people believed that being possessed by a fox spirit brought about madness and mental illness. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/11000/236843-texhnolyze.jpg |
Zergneedsfood said: The entire anime pits different forms of existence against one another Actually, this is how I see Texhnolyze: as a criticism of metaphysics. It is nothing more than a labyrinth of intertextuality. [Lain = hypertextuality?] Remember, Ran AKA "A column of Text" AKA Theoria AKA Contemplation kills herself in the show. This is important. "Turning into a flower" would entail the complete preclusion of a mind--a state that is devoid of contemplation. A flower doesn't think, doesn't philosophize, doesn't worry about the meaning of life, its purpose, the past, the future, mortality, hell, failure. It just lives. |
| The title itself could be seen as a play on words. Text no analyze? :) The particle 'no' in Japanese is a possessive. [e.g. Tenshi no Tamago = Angel's Egg] No in English means... no. oneadvicespace said: Kano wants a sort of functional physical/aesthetic perfection, which he defines in the fifteenth episode when he deconstructs Onishi's ideal of stability and status quo and asserts his own ideas, by removing people from the human body And in the end he basically transforms everyone into creatures that just think. Like you said, Kano is a solipsist, so he will naturally value the mind above everything else. |
AnagnorisisJan 25, 2014 8:02 AM
ProstheticLibido said: GoGo_Dominatrix said: Huh? So, basically everybody went insane and died? I don't know if this has been mentioned before but... In Japan there's this thing called kitsunetsuki. It means 'possessed by a fox'. Before the advent of modern medicine, Japanese people believed that being possessed by a fox spirit brought about madness and mental illness. http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/11000/236843-texhnolyze.jpg That's really cool, especially considering some of the old descriptions of Ran in the more ancient Wikipedia articles -- many of these descriptions were taken from the official site at the time -- for Texhnolyze before it was kinda 'pared down' into the thing we have now that doesn't really do the series any justice... Ran's Fox Mask There are also some more cool tidbits, like the vial of his mother's cells that Ichise keeps around serving as a 'makeshift grave' for the poor -- quite telling, especially with the fact that bodies are always sent into the big chasm to be turned into Raffia, so Ichise keeping his mother's cells makes a lot more sense that way."In Japanese society, the fox, is considered to be the guardian deity of farming (rice fields) by some, because the animal eats field mice that often damage or destroy crops. This guardian deity may signify some special power in Gabe, which is an agrarian community, as well?" |
BlebsJan 30, 2014 6:08 PM
How the storms all around me are now breathless Is this the end of the raging road Through the tangled mind? ...Is this the end of blue psychic seas? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnfpsVpUw4A P.S. Watch the video carefully and you'll see this icon/avatar thingie inside Ichise's field of vision. It has "thinking bubbles" coming out from it. Right before the flower shows up, the thinking icon/avatar explodes and disappears. P.P.S. It's a miniature brain. http://i.imgur.com/s6LtV1d.jpg |
AnagnorisisFeb 13, 2014 2:52 AM
ProstheticLibido said: Good shit. I came to the same conclusion, and it 'flashes red' when those with Texhnolyze units are 'hi-jacked' by Kano's technology (Onishi in episode 15, just about every prominent Texhnolyzed character in episode16) -- it's also similar to other small elements in the HUD/UI, notably the hexagon with the tiny Obelisk in it (http://i.imgur.com/VEH3wN2.png), and it's also flashing red when there's some external influence. How the storms all around me are now breathless Is this the end of the raging road Through the tangled mind? ...Is this the end of blue psychic seas? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnfpsVpUw4A P.S. Watch the video carefully and you'll see this icon/avatar thingie inside Ichise's field of vision. It has "thinking bubbles" coming out from it. Right before the flower shows up, the thinking icon/avatar explodes and disappears. P.P.S. It's a miniature brain. http://i.imgur.com/s6LtV1d.jpg The Obelisk icon's a cool detail, 'cause if I recall correctly it takes the show up until like, episode 19 for Doc and Saginuma to actually describe the functional purpose of the Obelisk -- I mean, you get a sense it's important somehow in the earlier episodes when Mizuno damages it and the Raffia dig site, but you don't actually get hard details apart from reading the now-dead English site (or its Japanese equivalent which is still alive and kicking) or any of the information that came with the physical DVDs. Just goes to show how incredibly visually-minded the show is. I love digging around for all the tiny details. |
| Amazing, deep series. Definitely not for lesser people of low intellect and conditioned attention spans. Right up there with Lain and Eva. 9/10 It's really sad that you can count the number of anime like this on your hand. I suppose intellect just doesn't sell. |
ex_necrossMar 13, 2014 6:31 AM
| I appreciate the analyses being posted here. There is so much to think about and so many little details that I missed. At some point I'll have to rewatch this series to catch all the ideas that it presents. |
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| Pretty interesting way how they ended this series, The overall atmosphere was always very dark and depressive which really reminded me of Ergo Proxy and Serial Experiments: Lain same goes for the art and similar way how the story develops. Although this anime had a nice concept and had a steady pacing in its development. All in all it wasn't bad but it wasn't all that good either. It's an average anime 6/10 |
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| So a dude with a Texhnolyzed heart (most of his upper torso in general in fact) came down from the surface where Texhnolyzation doesn't work to set the entire plot in motion...uhhh. That aside (or maybe I missed the explanation somewhere) I did think this was a really good show that presented the setting and themes excellently. Didn't really care for the characters at all which made the last few episodes less jarring than they were probably meant to be. But nevertheless I'd give it an 8/10. |
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hybreezy said: So a dude with a Texhnolyzed heart (most of his upper torso in general in fact) came down from the surface where Texhnolyzation doesn't work From Episode 4: http://i.imgur.com/WQAgFmG.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZIP2731.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fX1fdfc.jpg |
ProstheticLibido said: hybreezy said: So a dude with a Texhnolyzed heart (most of his upper torso in general in fact) came down from the surface where Texhnolyzation doesn't work From Episode 4: http://i.imgur.com/WQAgFmG.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ZIP2731.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fX1fdfc.jpg so his arms and whatever are like Saginuma's legs then? I guess that makes sense. |
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