Japan's Weekly Blu-ray and DVD Rankings for Jan 2 - 8

How dare women support Yuri on Ice and Touken Ranbu iinstead buy ecchi-harem-fanservice show??? Hmmm... such a mystery.

I think Flip Flappers flop because it's an original anime from relatively new studio with an unknown director and seiyuu.

That seems like a very long winded version of you saying "I think Japan has shit taste." I don't think that's fair. If people would prefer to watch and buy Yuuri on Ice or Drifters than Flip Flappers then that's their choice!

Flip Flappers wasn't "crucified" by anyone. It just wasn't that popular. In most recent online polls about favorite or most satisfying anime, voted on by Japanese people, Flip Flappers isn't even making the list. It just wasn't on people's radar at all.

Whose fault is that? Did the show not market itself well enough? Were the PVs a turn off? Whatever the reason, most Japanese viewers just didn't care for it, certainly not enough for more than a few of them to buy it. It really is just the way it is.

Same thing happens in the west. The most creative little movie that no one saw probably won't win the Oscars either. Just about everything turns out to be a popularity contest in the end and to win that, you need to cater to someone, a lot of someones. A tiny movie with no marketing can do really well but it needs to hit the first audiences right where it counts, generate buzz and word of mouth to bring more people in. But big popular productions with big popular actors usually win the sales and the awards.

The customer is always right. You can't blame them for not wanting to buy the product. You can be creative all you want but you always need to remember your customers. Wishing for an audience isn't enough, you need to know who your audience is and make a product to sell to that audience. The product, the marketing, it's job is to make you want to watch it and make you want to buy it. That's not the customer's job.

With anime you have a very short window to make that impression. The PVs and the first few episodes, the first few minutes of the first episode. Especially for original anime like Flip Flappers. If you blow that chance, you're done. Flip Flappers blew it. Simple as that.

People have mentioned several times that Flip Flappers should not have been expected to sell, because it essentially had no concrete audience.

The real tragedy here goes beyond Flip Flappers - the tragedy is that there apparently is no sizable, paying audience for shows LIKE Flip Flappers.

Flip Flappers is only the latest case study demonstrating how creativity and originality apparently can't stand on their own; they have to be attached to something catering (the more cynical might say "pandering") to a specific demographic. This situation is simply a business reality, but it doesn't change the fact that it is unfortunate and shouldn't be normalized by just saying "that's the way it is."

Everyone who bitches and moans that "anime is dying" doesn't seem to realize that shows like Flip Flappers are actively trying to "save anime." The problem is that they are getting crucified by the rabble - in this case the Japanese anime consumers.

*8.　*,883　**,883　Flip Flappers Vol.1

kys japan

If the cast was female, we wouldnt be having this discussion because MAL wouldnt be so pissed a show with a majority female audience got really popular. This happens every time.

You don't even know what "bait" is. Stop using it as a buzzword. No one got baited, the characters did not turn straight or got girlfriends. It's basically impossible to think they are straight without mental gymnastics. The audience not only got what they wanted, but the show pushed it beyond that which it's why the sales exploded.

The fact that you compare it to Sherlock where one of the characters got married and the writers repeatedly shut that down show you either lack of of a proper understanding of what is happening on screen or are just in denial for whatever reason.

If you want to think "yes, they are straight. the show is straight" that's your business, but understand no one actually thinks that but a very minority in denial for whatever reason. Hence 60k sales from a segment of people tired of writers hyping up stuff and never delivering. No need to feel sad for the LGBT audience. Most people quite like the show because they are not in denial on what is happening.

Well im not against enjoying the show, but there is no doubt this is getting a huge pass on stuff that it would not be getting if the cast was female. To each their own but you can at least acknowledge a genuine criticism about the show and still enjoy it. When it comes to this show people just want to shout you down.

A show can acknowledge something exists without making it main point of narrative. That's where YoI failed hard.

The whole "oh it should be in background and not the focus" is also just buzzwords. A relationship either tangibly exists or not. YOI episodes after the kiss felt like I am watching Supernatural or Sherlock episodes.


If actual LGBT community got baited into giving sales because of that then it is really sad, albeit I am still of belief most of those sales are fujoshi audience.

It's not discussed because the romantic part of their relationship was never the main point of the show. I thought that everyone already knew this but I guess not.

>pretty much basic rules of yaoi writing in terms of fujobait. Fujoshi do not want actual lgbt pairings and relationships, because they can't insert themselves into such a story.

lolwat? think you're talking about otome fans. just because your western ass saw it as ~queerbait~ doesn't mean thats how japanese fans saw it.

It's OK to be delusional, just understand that your opinion is a very minority and not widely shared, hence the 60k in sales. If you weren't, then you would understand why your average fujobait is selling 10k, while preorders spike after episode 7 and YoI sold 60k

I am perfectly aware on how queerbaiting works thank you very much and there's nothing delusion about the fact that show refused to adress the pairing as pairing in a concrete way despite the "proof" which made it all the more jarring. The kiss happens yet it is never ever EVER brought up by the characters. The characters never clearly discuss their relationship nor others adress it as romantic relationship. Its bait. Plain and simple. Bait.

I was actually hyped and hopeful after the kiss episode that the show will break the ice, but the show resorted to traditional baiting techniques instead. It was huge disappointment. All shows to bait this year were. Even Flip Flappers did not outright directly confirm the relationship despite love declarations actually happening. Its all bait.

The Author can say whatever they want but the show chickened out in doing anything that would break boundaries. And that makes sense, if it actually broke boundaries, otaku audience would shun it. Now since it is just bait, the show can bait both the actual LGBT audience and still attract otaku/fujoshi crowd.


No shows sell because of "yaoi" or "yuri". Actually gay characters DO NOT sell in japan because of how society works. Shows sell due to fanservice and catering to specific audiences. In YoI case that's fujoshi.

Flip Flappers overall was just unique in terms of its structure and presentation for Japanese audiences. A whole episode criticizing queerbaiting in general also certainly did not help as Japanese get quite angry for people daring to speak up about industry problems.

Alas, most people don't share this delusion and hence per-orders spiked with episode 7 and 10 when they got concrete in-show evidences and progresses.

Maybe Flip-Flapper should have tried more like YoI.

Oh wait, Yuri doesn't sell. Sad!

It still despite all the claims of breaking new grounds and the kiss scene(which the show proceeded to ignore), kept the relationship ambiguous and subtextual all the way through the show without any real progress. Thats pretty much basic rules of yaoi writing in terms of fujobait. Fujoshi do not want actual lgbt pairings and relationships, because they can't insert themselves into such a story.

Not to mention that YoI was a mess in various other aspects including animation quality, production values and narrative writing. The only possible thing I can deduce from that is that it sold because of fujoshi audience, which it targeted.

There are a bazillion of shows like that every season, heck check how much Trickster is selling even with Gackt (badly) voicing one of the characters.

YoI preorder spiked after episode 7, it sold because it broke the status quo and it gave people what they wanted and more.

It did not, by any definition, played by the usual fujoshi rules (which would be something like Free or even swords this season) and hence was reward sales-wise. <your favorite show> not selling is not a result of YoI, but that part of the otaku market either not spending money on anime or spending them for some other anime (Which I guess would be Kizu or LL?). Sad!

The point you made in your last post was wrong, so no, I don't understand. And you're looking at things on a seasonal basis for each committee which is obviously wrong. (Though Avex produced Long Riders and Yuri on Ice this season, and has already gotten money back on that investment) You act like committees are monolithic things that get a profit from a show and split it evenly between members, which is ridiculous. Some shows are profitable for part of the committee and not for other parts depending what money the show makes from where. Asahi, for instance, is getting YoI streaming money and whatever Funis paying for a US release as it is the international rights holder on the committee.

:rolleyes: Keep missing my point. Also the few success don't "pay for it" because that's not the same studios, not the same productions committees, and so on.

What? Touken Ranbu isn't a sequel? Drifters isnt a sequel? Unless you're counting adaptations as sequels, in which case nearly everything is a sequel as anime makes its money from being an advertising medium, and Yuri on Ices huge success is a great step.

This has been one of the most successful seasons for nonsequels in a long time. This season had two non sequels do better than any other non sequel this year and anything that sold in Winter or Spring. (Pretty sure Drifters and Touken Ranbu will edge out Konosuba and ReZero for the last two places in this years top 5) And, of course, with a giant original series like we haven't seen in almost a decade to top it off.

Anime is made on margins. Most anime "fail" (though a lot eventually break even over time), but the success of a few series pays for it.

Seems like you didn't follow the conversation. Precisely, once again, it's ONE show that takes that, meaning pretty much anything else that isn"t already guaranteed sales by being a sequel failed to bring back enough money for the production committees. One show+sequels taking all or sequel taking all isn't especially anything better. And that was what I'm talking about.

What has the sales model and the demographic anything to do with fewer and longer series not helping and I giving you justification and evidence why that is not true?

And yep a company that make longer and fewer shows where all of them are flops will get out of business, how it should be!

About the bigger awareness bringing definetily bigger money. With more people knowing, hearing other people talking about ,and watching your show; it means that the series will in the end get the same popularity or bigger than otherwise. Do we agree on that? That an individual series with more awareness will never sell less nor be less popular.
Now, this means that talking at the group perspective we will havê more chances for the "doing better" to happen, making the probability of it performing better much higher than just in an individual manner. Talking many series and many seasons and many Years, is absolutely certain that we will at least get ONE series improving from the added awareness and making the all industry better than it was before without this added awareness.

About longer shows. Is not about doing flops longer, but success longer, and in a more continuou manner.