Man in Austrailia fined for importing lolicon

im too lazy to read all 5 pages but last time i remember hot pre-adolescent on pre-adolescent action is evil if its either boy on boy (yaoi), boy on grandpa (yaoi), girl on girl (lolicon), or girl on grandpa (lolicon) they're all the same... dunno why ppl defend one side or the other. little boys = wrong little girls = wrong... one isnt more wrong than the other. thats like saying boy+priest is more acceptable than girl+grandpa its still wrong.

...you wouldnt rape baby jesus would you? :P

isnt it a little objective to label pre-teen boy love to be labeled as yaoi and pre-teen girl love to be labeled as lolicon? Granted they're both wrong but one has more of a taboo aura (lolicon) around it when both should have the same equally taboo essence. Untill yaoi can seperate their pre-teen boy side genre, Yaoi is wrong as much so as lolicon. dunno why FYG's cant see that (end of rant)

Oh and as for the guy who packed his lolicon in his bag... he fails for not having it air mailed to him... HAHA (he's still going to se hell tho :P)

TRUTH XD



ALSO truth. The main difference between BL/yaoi and gay porn is that gay porn is made for gay men, while yaoi/BL is mostly made for and enjoyed by women. In the same way, lolicon appeals to a totally different audience than real child pornography.

Umm. I am just going to say
A) I don't want to really get too deeply into this
and..
B)I agree with Krelian..

example-I enjoy violent anime, I enjoy talking about violence but I hate hurting people, and I have an inability to do so. I'd probably be a bit freaked out to hold a gun >_>

I really have no problem with "Abuse, Torture, Rape, and Murder" in anime.. it's not real.. I don't think I have ever ENJOYED a rape scene in anything.. ever.. anime, movie etc.. but sometimes they are necissary for plot..


Yeah.. I'd never watch gay porn with real guys.. But I enjoy yaoi from time to time.. HELL, I'd rather watch hentai than real gay porn.. I'd rather watch hentai than regular porn.. I don't know.. I only like real people when they are infront of me (if that makes sense...)

ps-But some people are messed up, and they may watch real child porn along with lolicon.. But those people are messed up in the first place and I HIGHLY doubt some drawings would create a completely non existant disorder in them....

That was clearly a comment directed towards morals. The fact that smoking is not deviant had absolutely nothing to do with it. I was merely stating that if you're going to consider something immoral and shunn it based on that sole fact, then you may as well shunn every other immoral act out there. I seriously do not believe that lolicon and pedophilia have any correlation. Though it is true that if you are lolicon the bearing of you also being pedophile would increase, that has no relevance. Why, you ask? Because pedophiles will without any doubt in my mind also enjoy lolicon, however, if you where first introduced to lolicon, there is no doubt in my mind that child pornography would not even be worth mention. As I've said before, the lolicon community is just too large among Otaku's to consider Pedophilia and Lolicon the same. I never had even the slightest attraction to real life children but with lolicon I was hooked from the very start. Also, I'de like to point this out-- Yes, loli's are flat-chested, yes, they have a slender figure, but they clearly do not have the same physical features as real life children. Lolicon is something, for the most part, that attracts the Otaku population. Moeblobs and the likes, something that "we" turn to when 'real' humans are no longer attractive.... and now I'm argueing with a fellow lolicon. Seriously though, that comment was a hard blow on what we where trying to represent in the first place. >.<

While I do love lolicon, and will represent those, such as myself, who demand the freedom to enjoy it, I'm a little sceptical of some of the naivety and certainty that some people supporting lolicon have succumbed to in their arguments here. For example, the rigidity of the divide between attraction to lolicon and child pornography; while it is certainly true that one does not preclude the other, it is a fallacy to suggest that there is no correlation. I'd be willing to bet there are higher instances of pedophilia among lolicon fans than people who don't like lolicon (although I don't have any evidence of this assumption either). The terms should not be conflated, but I would not argue that they are separate concepts. Drawn lolis are, after all, visual representations of children.

Killuan: Smoking and lolicon isn't a fair comparison, because smoking isn't really considered deviant like lolicon is, merely a social difference (one that is either accepted or frowned upon depending on the social context). Lolicon is considered deviant in larger society, but is a freedom that should be protected and granted irregardless.

>>As such, I have no problem with your objections to animated child porn, I just don't think that they should have any bearing on the law since they're not based on any rational argument.

That's basically the crux of the whole debate for me.

that about sums up every internet argument ever

After scanning through pages 2-5, i'm just wondering, why bother? This is just returning to the pointless loli thread arguements again. Whether anime porn is morally wrong or not, you guys are going to get nowhere.

Ah, give it up~ n.n;

They're just gonna say, "NUH UH" to any arguments we give them and pull another "But it's morally WRONG."

It's too hard to believe that things in anime could be different from in real life. We all know real life is just like anime, where everyone always looks 10 years younger than they are, third graders have c-cup breasts, and you are described as overweight when your cheeks are bigger than the other characters despite having the same shaped body.

Indeed I second Killuan what is so hard to believe the fact that we just like loli and nothing else honestly. Besides i doubt a pedophile would be interested in loli. being they are attracted to little kids and whatnot. simply put loli and cp are completly different things although it may be hard for you to realize just look at the details. Looking at loli doesnt give me a sexual urge for real children. Even with it in hentai form its the same. Loli ftw and whatnot.

I'll be blunt-- "Fail". read the definition of Lolicon in it's western usage. It only refers to the depiction of animated loli characters. Pedophile is referring to "real" life prepubescent children. It does, in no sense, imply to the animated realm. After all, Evangeline is well over 100. Shes clearly not prebubescent,(although she does look it that is irrelevant) shes merely loli. Or Shana, well over 50 and the mindset of one to prove it. Also, you can argue that although they are animated they are still children, but face the facts-- in actuallity they are not children at all or even human, they are fictional character's made by professional artists. Now, like I've said once, I'll say it again. By calling me a pedophile for watching loli hentai, you are also claiming that a very large Otaku population is also Pedophile and if that's the case, it should be considered as normalcy. Loli is something that regardless of your original mind-set, you may come to love and enjoy after becoming acquainted to it... Or better yet, actually know how to seperate a pedophile from a lolicon, clearly something alot of people on this board lack.

As for my statistics-- you should not need evidence for something so obvious. How many people on this board are defending lolicon? How many sites out there are made for the sole purpose of lolicon? Lolicon is a very common existance, unlike CP. It's very easy to aquire and most Otakus you converse with about that particular subject will understand you. I know, as I have absolutely no fear of telling any individual that I am a lolicon.

Now morality: that is a very hard subject matter to tread upon. Yes, ofcourse, I know fapping to loli certainly isn't moral but alot of things legal in this day and age are not. Smoking certainly isn't 'Moral", yet legions of people still smoke, even after awareness of it's potential side-effects. Anyways, I'm merely stating that while 'immoral', CP is on an entirely different level of immorality. It saddens me to see an underaged female aquainted to sex at such an early age. Why? Because I know that it could potentially become detrimental to that females daily life. Loli on the other hand, no one is harmed in the making of thus said material and It's not something I watch to relinquish my urges of doing something like that in the real world. I simply have a preferance for lolicon and I will not change my ideals on this subject matter.

On a final note-- would you consider it "OK" if a man where to date a women which soon inevitably lead to sexual intercourse with that women? Although there is a twist, the female is infact of age but due to some incurable disease she looks no older than 8.

P.S. yea, that may have sounded a little rude in an effort to prove my point, but It was not my original intentions. I just get tired of this same ol'e arguement that serves no real purpose because changing a persons opinion in this matter is a futile attempt. Seeing it for yourself is about the only way I know that would prove a possibility.

It is a tough concept to live by, but I for one think that the law should be as fair and devoid of bias as possible. So there's no place for emotion there. For example, even if I would very much like to see a rapist or child molester dead, I believe they deserve a fair trial and would hopefully set my emotions aside in order to see that they get one. I'm also very much against rape, murder, abuse, torture, etc. I just can't find a decent reason to object to these things in anime because it isn't real.

As such, I have no problem with your objections to animated child porn, I just don't think that they should have any bearing on the law since they're not based on any rational argument. For example, I think it's perfectly fine that many Christians object to gay marriage on moral grounds and I would never be in favor of forcing churches to marry gay couples when they believe that it's wrong, but there's absolutely no basis for the government to treat gay couples differently since the objections are purely religious/moral. Even if I personally believed something was wrong, I'd support your right to do it as long as it doesn't affect anyone but yourself.

WHOAWHOAWHOAWHOA hold up there. There's a huge difference between yaoi and gay pornography, and it's not just that one's animated and one's not.

It's a little difficult to explain, too, but by using that to argue your point, you're almost proving yourself wrong [at least, to those who enjoy BL]. In fact, it's sort of well known that most BL fans don't find real gay pornography attractive at all. xD

Thats alot harder concept to live Kei than it is to say. Im a pretty open minded guy, in all things except for a few things. Abuse, Torture, Rape, and Murder are about all I will take my stand on, and for me, those objections are amplified by it being children.

Anything else, is pretty open ground to be discussed or let pass over. I am emotional about this, but not everything is capable of being experenced without emotion.

edited: because I switched around the words live and say in the first sentence.

Krelian's mentioned this many times, but ppl don't seem to be getting it. A discussion about morals, and what's right and wrong, isn't gonna lead anywhere. No one here is saying lolicon manga has a message society should promote. from what I can see, this is supposed to be a thread about legal issues, not what's "morally correct" or not because, as mentioned, everyone's got different morals.

This is something along the lines of "I may not agree with what you say/believe, but I'll definitely fight for your right to say/believe in it."

Well, I suppose I should apologize from becoming physically ill at the thought of a child being used in that way.

From Cambridge Online Advance Learners Dictionary http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=57031&dict=CALD



If one is sexually interested in watching loli-hentai (depicting children) then they are concidered a paedophile. A paediphile and a child molester is different: a paedophile is interested in seeing children in a sexual way, while a child molester is going out and molesting children. Also, do you have evidence to back your statistics?

Loli-hentai may be drawnings but the intent is to make the viewer to become aroused at seeing children having sex. Is there a difference between yaoi and gay porn? No, and there isn't a difference between loli-hentai and child pornography. Why should society concider real child having sex immoral while it's perfectly moral for people are jerking off to drawn children? There isn't a difference; people are aroused at seeing drawn children. That isn't the message society should promote.

I really didn't want to get invovled, so this is the last post I'm going to make.

That's the problem - it's fine to say that we should have some kind of standards, but who is to say that your standards are better than mine or someone else's? In one corner of the world cannibalism is horrendous, in another it's perfectly normal. In one place gay people have the right to be married, in another they don't because of someone's "standards." If you're not going to force a religious dogma on everyone that lays out rules handed down from some higher power, how exactly do you choose where to draw all these lines that need to be drawn? The only unbiased way I can determine is to judge things based on how they affect the rest of society, which is why I don't think it's any of my business if you or anyone else want to watch animated child porn.



Isn't that statement itself irrational? Your mind is set because of your feelings on the issue and towards children in general rather than because of a rational argument. Last time I checked placing emotion over logic was the opposite of being rational. That said, I doubt we're going to get anywhere by arguing this back and forth, so perhaps it's best we don't.

For me its not an issue of if people watch this they will imitate it...I guess its hard to explain. I guess my thought is at what point do we consider something wrong...I mean we should have some kind of standards shouldn't we? I mean Im confused by all the commets such as



why are we supposing that child porn is wrong?

Maybe Im just a prude. But Im always gunan be a prude when it comes to evolving Children, in anyway, in sex, rape, or torture (yes even the productions of animated porn, which I know no real children are harmed) . Im sorry if you feel that somehow makes me an irrational.

Yeah... that's a little too extreme... I mean... if I got punished every time I thought about killing my ex-husband... well... you know...

There is a limit to taking things TOO far...

I cannot believe someone in this day and age just mentioned the idea of a "thought crime". I suppose you got the wrong message from George Orwell's 1984? The idea is absurd and I'm sorry but I cannot rationally talk with someone who believes that I can be punished for what I think.

Most of the societies we're talking about aren't theocracies, and definitely not the country this man was arrested in! People need to keep their religious beliefs out of secular governments! I'm sorry but that issue has been bugging me for quite a while.



I think we can change these censorship laws, and history has proven so many times. Remember back then when it was "indecent" for Elvis Presley to shake his lower body on television? As people become more and more open-minded and accepting of differences, these censorship laws will change for the better.