Author of Kodomo no Jikan Has an Argument with another Mangaka Over Sexual Expressions
On February 15th, mangaka Watashiya Kaworu had a quarrel with another mangaka Yuki Homura ("Sakitama ~Sakuya Den~") on twitter over the sexual expression of manga. Yuki tweeted that one of his acquainted bookstore clerks said he cannot put Comic High! magazine in the store since it has sexual expressions. Yuki complained that one ecchi manga series can bring disadvantages to all the other manga serialized in the same magazine.
Watashiya asked Yuki if the "ecchi manga" Yuki was talking about was Kodomo no Jikan. (Note: Both Yuki and Watashiya have been serializing manga in Comic High! magazine.) Yuki didn't specify the title in question but he told Watashiya it's better to keep the expression of manga within the safety zone set by the regulation of Tokyo government. Watashiya got angry and said she had been making a great effort not to violate the rule. Yuki said he didn't mean to interfere with the creation of Watashiya but he insisted he had a right to make a complaint.
Source: Togetter of the conversation
Watashiya asked Yuki if the "ecchi manga" Yuki was talking about was Kodomo no Jikan. (Note: Both Yuki and Watashiya have been serializing manga in Comic High! magazine.) Yuki didn't specify the title in question but he told Watashiya it's better to keep the expression of manga within the safety zone set by the regulation of Tokyo government. Watashiya got angry and said she had been making a great effort not to violate the rule. Yuki said he didn't mean to interfere with the creation of Watashiya but he insisted he had a right to make a complaint.
Source: Togetter of the conversation
20 of 33 Comments Recent Comments
Hoppy said:
Quite a few loli mangaka and artist are female and they need more appreciation.
Quite a few loli mangaka and artist are female and they need more appreciation.
Wisest words typed in this thread so far.
Feb 17, 2012 8:42 PM by mitch3315
ShiroiRyu said:
It's funny when you know the author of Kodomo no Jikan is a woman. ^^
It's funny when you know the author of Kodomo no Jikan is a woman. ^^
Quite a few loli mangaka and artist are female and they need more appreciation.
Feb 17, 2012 8:29 PM by Hoppy
lol twitfight! I've not seen two mangaka have a less than pleasant conversation on twitter yet. But seeing Ono Natsume and est em tweet back and forth makes me happy (in my pants~).
Feb 17, 2012 5:52 PM by shinkeikaku
It's funny when you know the author of Kodomo no Jikan is a woman. ^^
Feb 17, 2012 5:44 PM by ShiroiRyu
therubicon said:
Your whole argument seems to come down to Kodomo no Jikan being "purposeless". That's a fair point when you take away the context of the situation, however, I can't help but wonder if you've actually read Kodomo no Jikan, since it's not in your list. Granted, people don't always put everything they've read on their lists, so correct me if that's the case. Still, it's not really fair to judge it without reading more than a small amount (or none of it). I'm not trying to say Kodomo no Jikan is horribly deep or anything, because it's not, but it's far from "purposeless". If you wanted to point out a "purposeless" ecchi manga, you could probably find a couple more worthy of the title in the very same magazine. Just because Kodomo no Jikan has become controversial doesn't make it "purposeless". The two are very different things. I'd also point out that deviating from the norm in sexual expression in and of itself more than someone or something else is not always (but can be) "purposeless".
This is essentially why I said " And more, let's ignore all the people who seem to be neglecting that Homura do not target Watashiyo in his statement at all," and most of what you said is the reason behind that.Damonashu said:
In Ice Cube's song, the aforementioned allusion was done once and accumulated toward the general idea of the song, for him, that moment added to his already good day. Compare the "Ass" song, which adds to no other theme than "I like ass." So is sexual expression wrong? No, it isn't. But it raises the question of when this expression goes from purposeful to pandering.Let's ignore the point about how he said it should follow government regulations. And more, let's ignore all the people who seem to be neglecting that Homura do not target Watashiyo in his statement at all, and let's just focus on what he concluded with, "but he insisted he had a right to make the complaint." In a magazine full of ecchi manga, it's impossible to say which one he was complaining about, but he wasn't wrong in making the complaint.
In my comparison "One bad apple can ruin the bunch." The bad apple in this case is the purposeless "'sexual expression" ruining all other sexual expression.
octal9 said:
No, I'm definitely not saying that, and if it's true that Homura is a hentai mangaka, then I doubt he's saying that either. I'm just saying that it presents a good point when you think about it. Let's say it's not ecchi but instead the bravado presented by certain rappers in rap music. My cousin often listens to a song by Ice Cube that has a line alluding to him having sex with his girl, compare other songs, or rather, modern rap and hip hop with a song like "Ass" or whatever that song is that repeats that phrase over and over again.Damonashu said:
so are we saying that sexual expression is a "bad apple"? isn't our sexuality a basic and very natural part of our common human experience? does it not belong in art because some hung-up individuals can't deal with it? being it's an ecchi magazine, sexual situations are going to be a large part of it...Project_MkUltra said:
Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
Except no, it's not. Perhaps you didn't read the starting post well enough, but this is clearly about more than just drawings. It's an argument that basically states the sexual expression(used here to simulate Yuki Homura's voice) of a manga can alter how people look at other manga in same magazine. It is an essential argument that can be expanded to other mediums like music, television, and the like. A example of the term "one bad apple can spoil the bunch."Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
In Ice Cube's song, the aforementioned allusion was done once and accumulated toward the general idea of the song, for him, that moment added to his already good day. Compare the "Ass" song, which adds to no other theme than "I like ass." So is sexual expression wrong? No, it isn't. But it raises the question of when this expression goes from purposeful to pandering.Let's ignore the point about how he said it should follow government regulations. And more, let's ignore all the people who seem to be neglecting that Homura do not target Watashiyo in his statement at all, and let's just focus on what he concluded with, "but he insisted he had a right to make the complaint." In a magazine full of ecchi manga, it's impossible to say which one he was complaining about, but he wasn't wrong in making the complaint.
In my comparison "One bad apple can ruin the bunch." The bad apple in this case is the purposeless "'sexual expression" ruining all other sexual expression.
Your whole argument seems to come down to Kodomo no Jikan being "purposeless". That's a fair point when you take away the context of the situation, however, I can't help but wonder if you've actually read Kodomo no Jikan, since it's not in your list. Granted, people don't always put everything they've read on their lists, so correct me if that's the case. Still, it's not really fair to judge it without reading more than a small amount (or none of it). I'm not trying to say Kodomo no Jikan is horribly deep or anything, because it's not, but it's far from "purposeless". If you wanted to point out a "purposeless" ecchi manga, you could probably find a couple more worthy of the title in the very same magazine. Just because Kodomo no Jikan has become controversial doesn't make it "purposeless". The two are very different things. I'd also point out that deviating from the norm in sexual expression in and of itself more than someone or something else is not always (but can be) "purposeless".
I don't know enough about Kodomo no Jikan to say whether or not it is a culprit in purposeless ecchi, and despite the thread title suggesting that this was a heated debate between Homura and Watashiyo I don't think he was referring to it either. Just looking at the first few manga on the Comic High page would give you plenty of other suspects, the only reason Kodomo no Jikan seems to be the target is because the thread title makes it such. But I will assure you now, I would never speak to lengths about something I'm not familiar with.
Feb 17, 2012 8:05 AM by Damonashu
Damonashu said:
In Ice Cube's song, the aforementioned allusion was done once and accumulated toward the general idea of the song, for him, that moment added to his already good day. Compare the "Ass" song, which adds to no other theme than "I like ass." So is sexual expression wrong? No, it isn't. But it raises the question of when this expression goes from purposeful to pandering.Let's ignore the point about how he said it should follow government regulations. And more, let's ignore all the people who seem to be neglecting that Homura do not target Watashiyo in his statement at all, and let's just focus on what he concluded with, "but he insisted he had a right to make the complaint." In a magazine full of ecchi manga, it's impossible to say which one he was complaining about, but he wasn't wrong in making the complaint.
In my comparison "One bad apple can ruin the bunch." The bad apple in this case is the purposeless "'sexual expression" ruining all other sexual expression.
octal9 said:
No, I'm definitely not saying that, and if it's true that Homura is a hentai mangaka, then I doubt he's saying that either. I'm just saying that it presents a good point when you think about it. Let's say it's not ecchi but instead the bravado presented by certain rappers in rap music. My cousin often listens to a song by Ice Cube that has a line alluding to him having sex with his girl, compare other songs, or rather, modern rap and hip hop with a song like "Ass" or whatever that song is that repeats that phrase over and over again.Damonashu said:
so are we saying that sexual expression is a "bad apple"? isn't our sexuality a basic and very natural part of our common human experience? does it not belong in art because some hung-up individuals can't deal with it? being it's an ecchi magazine, sexual situations are going to be a large part of it...Project_MkUltra said:
Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
Except no, it's not. Perhaps you didn't read the starting post well enough, but this is clearly about more than just drawings. It's an argument that basically states the sexual expression(used here to simulate Yuki Homura's voice) of a manga can alter how people look at other manga in same magazine. It is an essential argument that can be expanded to other mediums like music, television, and the like. A example of the term "one bad apple can spoil the bunch."Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
In Ice Cube's song, the aforementioned allusion was done once and accumulated toward the general idea of the song, for him, that moment added to his already good day. Compare the "Ass" song, which adds to no other theme than "I like ass." So is sexual expression wrong? No, it isn't. But it raises the question of when this expression goes from purposeful to pandering.Let's ignore the point about how he said it should follow government regulations. And more, let's ignore all the people who seem to be neglecting that Homura do not target Watashiyo in his statement at all, and let's just focus on what he concluded with, "but he insisted he had a right to make the complaint." In a magazine full of ecchi manga, it's impossible to say which one he was complaining about, but he wasn't wrong in making the complaint.
In my comparison "One bad apple can ruin the bunch." The bad apple in this case is the purposeless "'sexual expression" ruining all other sexual expression.
Your whole argument seems to come down to Kodomo no Jikan being "purposeless". That's a fair point when you take away the context of the situation, however, I can't help but wonder if you've actually read Kodomo no Jikan, since it's not in your list. Granted, people don't always put everything they've read on their lists, so correct me if that's the case. Still, it's not really fair to judge it without reading more than a small amount (or none of it). I'm not trying to say Kodomo no Jikan is horribly deep or anything, because it's not, but it's far from "purposeless". If you wanted to point out a "purposeless" ecchi manga, you could probably find a couple more worthy of the title in the very same magazine. Just because Kodomo no Jikan has become controversial doesn't make it "purposeless". The two are very different things. I'd also point out that deviating from the norm in sexual expression in and of itself more than someone or something else is not always (but can be) "purposeless".
Feb 17, 2012 3:06 AM by therubicon
These arguments are much more interesting than the mangakas'. xD
Feb 16, 2012 8:47 PM by Forest-kun
octal9 said:
No, I'm definitely not saying that, and if it's true that Homura is a hentai mangaka, then I doubt he's saying that either. I'm just saying that it presents a good point when you think about it. Let's say it's not ecchi but instead the bravado presented by certain rappers in rap music. My cousin often listens to a song by Ice Cube that has a line alluding to him having sex with his girl, compare other songs, or rather, modern rap and hip hop with a song like "Ass" or whatever that song is that repeats that phrase over and over again.Damonashu said:
so are we saying that sexual expression is a "bad apple"? isn't our sexuality a basic and very natural part of our common human experience? does it not belong in art because some hung-up individuals can't deal with it? being it's an ecchi magazine, sexual situations are going to be a large part of it...Project_MkUltra said:
Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
Except no, it's not. Perhaps you didn't read the starting post well enough, but this is clearly about more than just drawings. It's an argument that basically states the sexual expression(used here to simulate Yuki Homura's voice) of a manga can alter how people look at other manga in same magazine. It is an essential argument that can be expanded to other mediums like music, television, and the like. A example of the term "one bad apple can spoil the bunch."Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
In Ice Cube's song, the aforementioned allusion was done once and accumulated toward the general idea of the song, for him, that moment added to his already good day. Compare the "Ass" song, which adds to no other theme than "I like ass." So is sexual expression wrong? No, it isn't. But it raises the question of when this expression goes from purposeful to pandering.Let's ignore the point about how he said it should follow government regulations. And more, let's ignore all the people who seem to be neglecting that Homura do not target Watashiyo in his statement at all, and let's just focus on what he concluded with, "but he insisted he had a right to make the complaint." In a magazine full of ecchi manga, it's impossible to say which one he was complaining about, but he wasn't wrong in making the complaint.
In my comparison "One bad apple can ruin the bunch." The bad apple in this case is the purposeless "'sexual expression" ruining all other sexual expression.
Feb 16, 2012 7:31 PM by Damonashu
YuutoAmakawa said:
I'm sorry, are we talking the same language here? Or rather, are we in the same world? Or should i say: are u one of those from sankaku?
1. Who got arrest? Hello, knock knock. People got burst because of obscene way before that man and his law appear. And if we talk about being burst because of obscenity, it wont just be in Japan.
2. While that whole crap is stupid, I believe that shit did NOT say anything about arrest anyone here. Only those from sankaku believe in that.
3. Are u listening to yourself? With the whole economic situation, prices sky rocketing, people lost their job... and u think they just pay more and more for hobby? Perhaps, but only those hardcore hikkikomori do that. The number of visitor slip, and a bunch of shut-in already make a fuss about that? Get real! Life is harder every day! Btw, who do u think gain the most from COMIKET? Mangaka? Circle? I dont think so, and u think they want to close it?
Hoppy said:
Onii-chan no koto got licensed in the US.
Also before you say Mr. Ishihara has done nothing, the reason you don't notice is because we are watching/reading our typical normal anime/manga/LNs, very little has been affected, he's just shifted most of his power to doujin mangaka, he's responsible for the arrest of some for trumped up obscenity charges. There are also concerns that Comiket will be shut down.
Onii-chan no koto got licensed in the US.
Also before you say Mr. Ishihara has done nothing, the reason you don't notice is because we are watching/reading our typical normal anime/manga/LNs, very little has been affected, he's just shifted most of his power to doujin mangaka, he's responsible for the arrest of some for trumped up obscenity charges. There are also concerns that Comiket will be shut down.
I'm sorry, are we talking the same language here? Or rather, are we in the same world? Or should i say: are u one of those from sankaku?
1. Who got arrest? Hello, knock knock. People got burst because of obscene way before that man and his law appear. And if we talk about being burst because of obscenity, it wont just be in Japan.
2. While that whole crap is stupid, I believe that shit did NOT say anything about arrest anyone here. Only those from sankaku believe in that.
3. Are u listening to yourself? With the whole economic situation, prices sky rocketing, people lost their job... and u think they just pay more and more for hobby? Perhaps, but only those hardcore hikkikomori do that. The number of visitor slip, and a bunch of shut-in already make a fuss about that? Get real! Life is harder every day! Btw, who do u think gain the most from COMIKET? Mangaka? Circle? I dont think so, and u think they want to close it?
Joined Feb 2012, only 2 posts, I have a good feeling you just registered only to put your two cents in. This topic is only pertaining to Japan, don't get any other country involved in this.
As for who gains the most from Comiket like any convention, well it's not the anime or manga industry, it's the convention owners (convention space costs money to rent) and a little bit from hotel owners, restaurants, etc. Governments regardless of nation can close any event as they please for any reason at all (or for no reason at all).
Feb 16, 2012 9:18 AM by Hoppy
Hoppy said:
Onii-chan no koto got licensed in the US.
Also before you say Mr. Ishihara has done nothing, the reason you don't notice is because we are watching/reading our typical normal anime/manga/LNs, very little has been affected, he's just shifted most of his power to doujin mangaka, he's responsible for the arrest of some for trumped up obscenity charges. There are also concerns that Comiket will be shut down.
Onii-chan no koto got licensed in the US.
Also before you say Mr. Ishihara has done nothing, the reason you don't notice is because we are watching/reading our typical normal anime/manga/LNs, very little has been affected, he's just shifted most of his power to doujin mangaka, he's responsible for the arrest of some for trumped up obscenity charges. There are also concerns that Comiket will be shut down.
I'm sorry, are we talking the same language here? Or rather, are we in the same world? Or should i say: are u one of those from sankaku?
1. Who got arrest? Hello, knock knock. People got burst because of obscene way before that man and his law appear. And if we talk about being burst because of obscenity, it wont just be in Japan.
2. While that whole crap is stupid, I believe that shit did NOT say anything about arrest anyone here. Only those from sankaku believe in that.
3. Are u listening to yourself? With the whole economic situation, prices sky rocketing, people lost their job... and u think they just pay more and more for hobby? Perhaps, but only those hardcore hikkikomori do that. The number of visitor slip, and a bunch of shut-in already make a fuss about that? Get real! Life is harder every day! Btw, who do u think gain the most from COMIKET? Mangaka? Circle? I dont think so, and u think they want to close it?
Feb 16, 2012 9:00 AM by YuutoAmakawa
who the F cares people
Feb 16, 2012 6:28 AM by Mr_Gutts
Onii-chan no koto got licensed in the US.
Also before you say Mr. Ishihara has done nothing, the reason you don't notice is because we are watching/reading our typical normal anime/manga/LNs, very little has been affected, he's just shifted most of his power to doujin mangaka, he's responsible for the arrest of some for trumped up obscenity charges. There are also concerns that Comiket will be shut down.
Also before you say Mr. Ishihara has done nothing, the reason you don't notice is because we are watching/reading our typical normal anime/manga/LNs, very little has been affected, he's just shifted most of his power to doujin mangaka, he's responsible for the arrest of some for trumped up obscenity charges. There are also concerns that Comiket will be shut down.
Feb 16, 2012 6:18 AM by Hoppy
I've never heard of this "Sakitama" thing, so I'm gonna side with Kaworu-sensei on this one.
Feb 16, 2012 5:51 AM by SurferDude
Damonashu said:
so are we saying that sexual expression is a "bad apple"? isn't our sexuality a basic and very natural part of our common human experience? does it not belong in art because some hung-up individuals can't deal with it? being it's an ecchi magazine, sexual situations are going to be a large part of it...
Project_MkUltra said:
Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
Except no, it's not. Perhaps you didn't read the starting post well enough, but this is clearly about more than just drawings. It's an argument that basically states the sexual expression(used here to simulate Yuki Homura's voice) of a manga can alter how people look at other manga in same magazine. It is an essential argument that can be expanded to other mediums like music, television, and the like. A example of the term "one bad apple can spoil the bunch."Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
Feb 16, 2012 4:44 AM by octal9
Butthurt about your manga doing poorly? Make a fuss with a popular one! Also looking at series serialized in Comic High it could as well be any other manga like Onii-chan no Koto which i believe has around the same amount of ecchi content like KnJ does or Girlfriends - when it was serialized and shown actual sex.
Feb 16, 2012 4:43 AM by OrochiPL
sad argument in the first place - should artists really have to censor themselves in the first place? seems like japan might be heading back to where it was pre-world war II (although i hope not) - we're dealing with the same backwards-thinking right-wing types here in the u.s., so we don't have much room to criticize - i really hope this trend can be reversed - seems like every time the world economy hits a bad pocket all the hard-core fascists and communists rear their ugly little heads..........
Feb 16, 2012 4:40 AM by octal9
LazYSlackeR said:
Project_MkUltra said:
Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
For you maybe, but for them it's what brings food to their tables...Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
You got that right. And this is come from a hentai mangaka who just begin his 1st normal manga ever.
That's right people. It seems this way to me:
_ Yuuki Homura-sensei is hentai mangaka: http://www.mangaupdates.com/authors.html?id=4999
_ One day, he decide to start a normal manga, may be for a change, may be just for fun. But when his work come to Comic High, seem like it's no match for many others there, INCLUDING Kodomo no Jikan.
_ Then how to make my work more appeal? Simple, start a fight with author of the one which sell the most in the same magazine. And what reason is better than stick with the sh*t we all know about? That way, people might (or might not) be become aware of his manga.
There are many reason let me to that conclusion:
1. First off, nobody SAY ANYTHING about that whole crap-we-all-know-what-it-is anymore. Since when? Since the time the man in question win his 4th election, and that's final. Somewhere, here and there, some people might mention about this, but at a whole, nothing change (except for 6 ALREADY COMPLETED mangas)
2. Even with or with that law, Kodomo no Jikan is pretty intense & touch a sensitive topic: lolicon. So even with the old regulating system, they were still able to cancel it, but they didnt. With such a full-of-hole law like the new one, u think they can?
3. Kodomo no Jikan is NOT the only one in the Borderline H line in Comic High. Many other are: Oniichan Control, Oniichan no Koto, Chuu-braa!!!.... Yet no one say anything, except for him? Because if we talk about sexual expression, many other titles, I believe, will not lose to KnJ in term of ecchiness. Especially with Oniichan no Koto, which might be on the same level with Kissxsis or To Love ru Darkness
4. It sound so stupid about his friend's store. His store is not the only one in Japan, many other still put it on the shelves, and it is not? Even now I can easily find both Comic High & Kodomo no Jikan on Amazon Japan (we all know how scardy-cat this one is) and book for it. If that man is so scare like that, fair enough. It's just mean that his store will drop a bit in sell, since many people look for Comic High just to read KnJ
In the end, I dont see any meaning in this fight, except making people start paying attention in manga Sakitama
Feb 16, 2012 3:35 AM by YuutoAmakawa
Project_MkUltra said:
Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
For you maybe, but for them it's what brings food to their tables...
Calm the fuck down it's just drawings
Feb 16, 2012 1:45 AM by LazYSlackeR
Damn these twitter fights are stupid.
Feb 16, 2012 12:55 AM by FatherAnderson
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| Manga: | Kodomo no Jikan |
| People: | Watashiya, Kaworu |
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If it does, then their bullshit argument is just that, bullshit.
On edit: Hmm, so that store does sell Champion Red Ichigo. Welp...
Feb 22, 2012 7:25 PM by Kokujin-kun