Reply to Kenzolo-folk
@ShinyLotus
“we're talking about people who have never actually watched anything and still rant about the shows? I'd say this is more common at the gore/sexuality (nudity, rape, incest, underage)/visual quality area as nomination criteria. I would place being a Battle Shounen somewhere in the middle (along with at least CGDCT/moe) and also with a big gap to the top group.”
>ywah that’s true altho I’ve seen quite a few who have completed many shounen
“You shit on shows because you don't like something ... and I don't understand how other people's opinions should influence your own in this regard“
>they don’t actually, I’m just pointing out something I’ve noticed π
“It doesn't (in a direct logical sense). Although I would classify basically every battle shounen I've seen as having more substance if many of the fight scenes were cut out. Having little substance per time is ultimately very similar to having no substance in the context of an anime (so packing it with fight scenes for younger people may hurt the anime in some instances”
>that’s fair, although some of them wouldn’t be as impactful if there wasn’t a fight scene (kakashi vs obito for instance)
“For most series, it doesn't matter if characters change or stay the same as long as they are well written. Maybe that's the case for some anime with a long running time, but not in general. In any case, it's more of a preference and some people may not like it when characters overcome themselves too often”
>I heavily disagree, people like seeing development in characters so that the story seems like it has stakes and all the events that’s happened thus far were actually important. If a character (especially the main character) stays the exact same throughout the entire series, especially notably long series like battle shounen then I don’t think most people are satisfied by this type of writing.
I don’t expect shounen to be meaningful to everyone, but discrediting its ability to make people change something about themselves or give them a positive outlook about something is undoubtably meaningful. Some shows have absoloutely no meaning at all, (elfen lord for instance) some things just happen for the sake of happening and there’s no actual commentary to be made about it. Not saying that’s necessary, but there are definitely objectively “meaningful” shows, it just comes down to whether that meaning resonated with you or not if that makes sense. For example I don’t resonate with denji’s downbad characterization but I can understand it’s meaningful because he wants to be controlled because he’s always had to make decisions for himself considering his horrible childhood
“we're talking about people who have never actually watched anything and still rant about the shows? I'd say this is more common at the gore/sexuality (nudity, rape, incest, underage)/visual quality area as nomination criteria. I would place being a Battle Shounen somewhere in the middle (along with at least CGDCT/moe) and also with a big gap to the top group.”
>ywah that’s true altho I’ve seen quite a few who have completed many shounen
“You shit on shows because you don't like something ... and I don't understand how other people's opinions should influence your own in this regard“
>they don’t actually, I’m just pointing out something I’ve noticed π
“It doesn't (in a direct logical sense). Although I would classify basically every battle shounen I've seen as having more substance if many of the fight scenes were cut out. Having little substance per time is ultimately very similar to having no substance in the context of an anime (so packing it with fight scenes for younger people may hurt the anime in some instances”
>that’s fair, although some of them wouldn’t be as impactful if there wasn’t a fight scene (kakashi vs obito for instance)
“For most series, it doesn't matter if characters change or stay the same as long as they are well written. Maybe that's the case for some anime with a long running time, but not in general. In any case, it's more of a preference and some people may not like it when characters overcome themselves too often”
>I heavily disagree, people like seeing development in characters so that the story seems like it has stakes and all the events that’s happened thus far were actually important. If a character (especially the main character) stays the exact same throughout the entire series, especially notably long series like battle shounen then I don’t think most people are satisfied by this type of writing.
I don’t expect shounen to be meaningful to everyone, but discrediting its ability to make people change something about themselves or give them a positive outlook about something is undoubtably meaningful. Some shows have absoloutely no meaning at all, (elfen lord for instance) some things just happen for the sake of happening and there’s no actual commentary to be made about it. Not saying that’s necessary, but there are definitely objectively “meaningful” shows, it just comes down to whether that meaning resonated with you or not if that makes sense. For example I don’t resonate with denji’s downbad characterization but I can understand it’s meaningful because he wants to be controlled because he’s always had to make decisions for himself considering his horrible childhood
| @Kenzolo-folk "they don’t actually, I’m just pointing out something I’ve noticed π" - >Well, I've never met anyone who I almost or completely believe shits on Battle Shounen, despite liking it. Although I can't look inside their head to check if they're not lying. "that’s fair, although some of them wouldn’t be as impactful if there wasn’t a fight scene (kakashi vs obito for instance)" >Ofc. Not all fights are only/mostly fillers. "I heavily disagree, people like seeing development in characters so that the story seems like it has stakes and all the events that’s happened thus far were actually important. If a character (especially the main character) stays the exact same throughout the entire series, especially notably long series like battle shounen then I don’t think most people are satisfied by this type of writing." >HxH has them all. Meruem changes inside, Gon doesn't and Killua seems to change inside but to make it true, he only changes because the plot puts a mind control needle in his head and suddenly reveals his brother who he ignored all the time before but suddenly loves. I would say that everything has its charm in different ways. Funnily enough, Gon is the main character in a long series who doesn't change (for 130-144EPs, I don't read manga so I don't know how the election arc affects Gon as it progresses) and still being liked. You can build up storylines without the characters changing for creating stakes or something like this. The world around the character still changes as well and they have to stand up to it. Popular series such as Black Lagoon or Death Note are good examples of anime where the story depends on a character not being able to change in a meaningful way. In Black Lagoon, for example, the main character has an overly unhealthy longing for freedom and the story is about him failing in his normal life, as a pirate and as someone who wants to destroy the pirates/mafia because of it; he never overcomes himself and only faces different realities failing to escape himself. "Some shows have absoloutely no meaning at all, (elfen lord for instance)" >Well...you're doing the same thing as those who see no substance in battle shounen. A girl sleeping in a CGDCT show has substance/depth/meaning to those who find that lazy-lyfe style interesting/inspiring. Even the depiction of a sex position in a hentai is meaningful to those who don't know them and are interested in it. It is basically impossible to create something that can have no meaning at all. I am totally fine with you stating your opinion/dislike of Elfen [Lied?] but I also am fine with battle shounen shitting the same way. >There is only an objective value (like a community score or some abstract value that you can't really measure, among other things for meaningfulness) by averaging all subjective opinions about something (ones single opinion is also objectively ones [subjective] opinion btw). I also talked about subjective and objective substance and depth (it's the same with meaning) in my more recent post responding to you. "Not saying that’s necessary, but there are definitely objectively “meaningful” shows, it just comes down to whether that meaning resonated with you or not if that makes sense." >I think my explanation one point above makes perfect sense ... but not yours. You often confuse relative, absolute, subjective and objective with each other (or don't write down what you think only leads to that impression) ... that's how I see it. Not just here, but in some of the other posts I've read from you too. "For example I don’t resonate with denji’s downbad characterization but I can understand it’s meaningful because he wants to be controlled because he’s always had to make decisions for himself considering his horrible childhood" >Sometimes you can understand why others are interested (or not) ... sometimes not. That's just the way it is. It's even true for yourself ... sometimes you think you liked an anime because of X and later realise that wasn't the case (partly or at all) or are unable to tell why you liked it. |
| "I don't know everything, I only know what the internet knows." - Definitely not best girl. "To ask is a moment's shame. Not to, lifelong." - I quoted with a posed look. |
Reply to AzafuseKingTora
@Kenzolo-folk But Kung Fu Panda is better executed
| @AzafuseKingTora Apples and oranges, one is a movie with a whole writing team behind it, another is juggling multiple characters and story arcs on a weekly schedule by one author and a couple editors. Atp its just personal taste |
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Reply to Guilmon1
@Kenzolo-folk there aren't many stories without meaning, saying it is just the same as people hating on battle shonen, there are badly written stories but they still try to convey a meaning
| @Guilmon1 If someone could tell me the point of elfen lied I would genuinely love to know (Mostly jokes btw, u make a good point) |
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Reply to Guilmon1
@ShinyLotus actually the best written response here
| @Guilmon1 Thanks. (Powered by www.deepl.com/translator so nobody has to put up with my English grammar) |
| "I don't know everything, I only know what the internet knows." - Definitely not best girl. "To ask is a moment's shame. Not to, lifelong." - I quoted with a posed look. |
Reply to ShinyLotus
@Kenzolo-folk
"they don’t actually, I’m just pointing out something I’ve noticed π" -
>Well, I've never met anyone who I almost or completely believe shits on Battle Shounen, despite liking it. Although I can't look inside their head to check if they're not lying.
"that’s fair, although some of them wouldn’t be as impactful if there wasn’t a fight scene (kakashi vs obito for instance)"
>Ofc. Not all fights are only/mostly fillers.
"I heavily disagree, people like seeing development in characters so that the story seems like it has stakes and all the events that’s happened thus far were actually important. If a character (especially the main character) stays the exact same throughout the entire series, especially notably long series like battle shounen then I don’t think most people are satisfied by this type of writing."
>HxH has them all. Meruem changes inside, Gon doesn't and Killua seems to change inside but to make it true, he only changes because the plot puts a mind control needle in his head and suddenly reveals his brother who he ignored all the time before but suddenly loves. I would say that everything has its charm in different ways. Funnily enough, Gon is the main character in a long series who doesn't change (for 130-144EPs, I don't read manga so I don't know how the election arc affects Gon as it progresses) and still being liked.
You can build up storylines without the characters changing for creating stakes or something like this. The world around the character still changes as well and they have to stand up to it. Popular series such as Black Lagoon or Death Note are good examples of anime where the story depends on a character not being able to change in a meaningful way. In Black Lagoon, for example, the main character has an overly unhealthy longing for freedom and the story is about him failing in his normal life, as a pirate and as someone who wants to destroy the pirates/mafia because of it; he never overcomes himself and only faces different realities failing to escape himself.
"Some shows have absoloutely no meaning at all, (elfen lord for instance)"
>Well...you're doing the same thing as those who see no substance in battle shounen.
A girl sleeping in a CGDCT show has substance/depth/meaning to those who find that lazy-lyfe style interesting/inspiring. Even the depiction of a sex position in a hentai is meaningful to those who don't know them and are interested in it. It is basically impossible to create something that can have no meaning at all. I am totally fine with you stating your opinion/dislike of Elfen [Lied?] but I also am fine with battle shounen shitting the same way.
>There is only an objective value (like a community score or some abstract value that you can't really measure, among other things for meaningfulness) by averaging all subjective opinions about something (ones single opinion is also objectively ones [subjective] opinion btw).
I also talked about subjective and objective substance and depth (it's the same with meaning) in my more recent post responding to you.
"Not saying that’s necessary, but there are definitely objectively “meaningful” shows, it just comes down to whether that meaning resonated with you or not if that makes sense."
>I think my explanation one point above makes perfect sense ... but not yours. You often confuse relative, absolute, subjective and objective with each other (or don't write down what you think only leads to that impression) ... that's how I see it. Not just here, but in some of the other posts I've read from you too.
"For example I don’t resonate with denji’s downbad characterization but I can understand it’s meaningful because he wants to be controlled because he’s always had to make decisions for himself considering his horrible childhood"
>Sometimes you can understand why others are interested (or not) ... sometimes not. That's just the way it is. It's even true for yourself ... sometimes you think you liked an anime because of X and later realise that wasn't the case (partly or at all) or are unable to tell why you liked it.
"they don’t actually, I’m just pointing out something I’ve noticed π" -
>Well, I've never met anyone who I almost or completely believe shits on Battle Shounen, despite liking it. Although I can't look inside their head to check if they're not lying.
"that’s fair, although some of them wouldn’t be as impactful if there wasn’t a fight scene (kakashi vs obito for instance)"
>Ofc. Not all fights are only/mostly fillers.
"I heavily disagree, people like seeing development in characters so that the story seems like it has stakes and all the events that’s happened thus far were actually important. If a character (especially the main character) stays the exact same throughout the entire series, especially notably long series like battle shounen then I don’t think most people are satisfied by this type of writing."
>HxH has them all. Meruem changes inside, Gon doesn't and Killua seems to change inside but to make it true, he only changes because the plot puts a mind control needle in his head and suddenly reveals his brother who he ignored all the time before but suddenly loves. I would say that everything has its charm in different ways. Funnily enough, Gon is the main character in a long series who doesn't change (for 130-144EPs, I don't read manga so I don't know how the election arc affects Gon as it progresses) and still being liked.
You can build up storylines without the characters changing for creating stakes or something like this. The world around the character still changes as well and they have to stand up to it. Popular series such as Black Lagoon or Death Note are good examples of anime where the story depends on a character not being able to change in a meaningful way. In Black Lagoon, for example, the main character has an overly unhealthy longing for freedom and the story is about him failing in his normal life, as a pirate and as someone who wants to destroy the pirates/mafia because of it; he never overcomes himself and only faces different realities failing to escape himself.
"Some shows have absoloutely no meaning at all, (elfen lord for instance)"
>Well...you're doing the same thing as those who see no substance in battle shounen.
A girl sleeping in a CGDCT show has substance/depth/meaning to those who find that lazy-lyfe style interesting/inspiring. Even the depiction of a sex position in a hentai is meaningful to those who don't know them and are interested in it. It is basically impossible to create something that can have no meaning at all. I am totally fine with you stating your opinion/dislike of Elfen [Lied?] but I also am fine with battle shounen shitting the same way.
>There is only an objective value (like a community score or some abstract value that you can't really measure, among other things for meaningfulness) by averaging all subjective opinions about something (ones single opinion is also objectively ones [subjective] opinion btw).
I also talked about subjective and objective substance and depth (it's the same with meaning) in my more recent post responding to you.
"Not saying that’s necessary, but there are definitely objectively “meaningful” shows, it just comes down to whether that meaning resonated with you or not if that makes sense."
>I think my explanation one point above makes perfect sense ... but not yours. You often confuse relative, absolute, subjective and objective with each other (or don't write down what you think only leads to that impression) ... that's how I see it. Not just here, but in some of the other posts I've read from you too.
"For example I don’t resonate with denji’s downbad characterization but I can understand it’s meaningful because he wants to be controlled because he’s always had to make decisions for himself considering his horrible childhood"
>Sometimes you can understand why others are interested (or not) ... sometimes not. That's just the way it is. It's even true for yourself ... sometimes you think you liked an anime because of X and later realise that wasn't the case (partly or at all) or are unable to tell why you liked it.
| @ShinyLotus Maybe our idea of change in a character is different, because gon makes a pretty infamous change in character by the end of the anime. Both revy and the main character of black lagoon experience development as well, they aren’t completely the same as when the series started out, and it’s primarily thanks to their influences on eachother and the traumatic experiences they face on their journey If you put it as specifically in that way then I guess every show has its meaning, but I wasn’t talking about meaning in the absolute sense of the word. More like obvious thematic intention behind something. Hentai and gore shows to me serve a unanimous purpose but of course I can always be wrong about that, media is extremely diverse “You often confuse relative, absolute, subjective and objective with each other (or don't write down what you think only leads to that impression) ... that's how I see it. Not just here, but in some of the other posts I've read from you too.” Yes believe me I’m starting to really confuse myself too. I’m having a difficult time getting my point across and I end up contradicting myselfπ₯²π. “Sometimes you can understand why others are interested (or not) ... sometimes not. That's just the way it is. It's even true for yourself ... sometimes you think you liked an anime because of X and later realise that wasn't the case (partly or at all) or are unable to tell why you liked it.” Right, exactly my point. If there’s an obvious thematic intention behind a story I can recognize that it exists but that doesn’t necessarily mean I resonate with it. I don’t fault anyone that doesn’t resonate with any of the themes in battle shounen. |
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Reply to DigiCat
@SuperAdventure And here is the most typical example of someone dissing a genre just because it has x y or z
| @DigiCat Indeed, that is exactly what this is. And it's great fun, too ^_^ |
| Depends on what's being criticized. I used to watch and enjoy this type of show but I've since seen more solid shows. So the average battle shounen usually gets something like 5 or 6 and the good ones get a 7 or 8. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| there aren't that many great ones tbf but asking these people to stop hating on battle shounen is asking them to lose 99% of their personality. |
 |
| This kind of behavior isn't just on battle shounen, but you can pretty much see it on other genres too. It's easy to reduce something to just being called 'X'. I have people who said they enjoyed only action shounen because it's easily digestible and simple to follow when I think it's an insult to said content they're watching. Even One Piece has its moments of emotional climax that make it a lot more special than just a goofy pirate trying to be the king of the world. I've had people shitting on me for liking Solo Leveling and calling me basic, so what if I like Solo Leveling? So many action fantasies out there are just garbage at doing it, so what if Solo Leveling just does it even better and is the epitome of self-fantasy? The creators did an amazing job making it look so gorgeous and fantastic all the while expanding the scope of the character's strength. |
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Reply to JoeChip
@ToG25thBaam
Ironically a lot of battle shonen fans are elitist when it comes to their favorites and easily shit on other battle shonens.
Ironically a lot of battle shonen fans are elitist when it comes to their favorites and easily shit on other battle shonens.
JoeChip said: Ironically a lot of battle shonen fans are elitist when it comes to their favorites and easily shit on other battle shonens. Yea, like...lets be fucking real here. Most of this battle shounen hate comes from a mentally challenged minority of the audience who ONLY consume battle shounen, say its peak/better than your shows, and constantly butt heads with others. Its not even a question lol. |
 |
ZeroMajor12 said: enjoyed only action shounen because it's easily digestible and simple to follow when I think it's an insult to said content they're watching. That's not a controversial opinion. Battle anime are very easily consumable, since it is rare for a lot to happen in any given episode. This is why you can watch more episodes before you reach a kind of saturation where you have to sit down and reflect on what you just watched. Back in 2004 or so, I had no problem watching 25 episodes of Naruto in one day, but after a single episode of Serial Experiments Lain I had to take a break and think about what I just watched. I didn't have to think after 25 episodes of Naruto and could have watched more if the day was longer. Battle anime can be entertaining. They can evoke a variety of emotions. But I don't remember one that forced me to sit down and ponder. It's not that they don't present food for thought, it's that they leave the viewer plenty of time to process everything while watching. What I found most tragic about the genre is that it keeps iterating on itself while staying essentially the same. This means that after having watched enough of them (I've seen over a hundred) they cease to provide new food for thought. Hopefully eventually a deconstruction will breathe new life into the genre, like Evangelion did about 30 years ago for Mecha anime. |
Reply to TransferUser
ZeroMajor12 said:
enjoyed only action shounen because it's easily digestible and simple to follow when I think it's an insult to said content they're watching.
enjoyed only action shounen because it's easily digestible and simple to follow when I think it's an insult to said content they're watching.
That's not a controversial opinion. Battle anime are very easily consumable, since it is rare for a lot to happen in any given episode. This is why you can watch more episodes before you reach a kind of saturation where you have to sit down and reflect on what you just watched.
Back in 2004 or so, I had no problem watching 25 episodes of Naruto in one day, but after a single episode of Serial Experiments Lain I had to take a break and think about what I just watched. I didn't have to think after 25 episodes of Naruto and could have watched more if the day was longer.
Battle anime can be entertaining. They can evoke a variety of emotions. But I don't remember one that forced me to sit down and ponder.
It's not that they don't present food for thought, it's that they leave the viewer plenty of time to process everything while watching.
What I found most tragic about the genre is that it keeps iterating on itself while staying essentially the same. This means that after having watched enough of them (I've seen over a hundred) they cease to provide new food for thought. Hopefully eventually a deconstruction will breathe new life into the genre, like Evangelion did about 30 years ago for Mecha anime.
| @TransferUser true, most battle shonen anime are still pretty easily digestible because it doesn't rely on subtlety, rather on the scale and impact of the content they produce compared to others. Subversion may be needed, but not as of now, since most popular battle anime is currently JJK and Demon Slayer, it may take some time before someone with a unique idea come along the way. |
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| Reducing disliking shounen to "but theres fight scenes" Is rather disingenuous, expecially considering the oversaturation It has, personally i tried Reading some shounens that had the potential to be unique only for them to turn out generic, so i'm farly disillusioned with the demographic, also shounen comedy Is the worst thing i have ever seen, there are some cases in which it was so bad and so much i physically felt nasueous(i'm particularly receptive to psychosomatism) so i try to avoid. |
| "Battle shounen being misunderstood on this website" What is there to understand? 1. They are shitty at being funny and entertaining. 2. They annoyingly melodramatic and try to make you emotional with the cheapest tricks in the book. 3. They are supposed to be action packed, but water down their battles with endless nonsensical dialogues and monologues from the type "I will beat the bad guys because I must protect my family/friends." and "Good guys are hypocrite yet weak. They make me sick!". When you fight for real you don't have time to breath even less participate in a lame debate. And don't let me start on "flashback in a fight, which leads to yet another flashback ect.". 4. The battles scenes are kind of low detail and surrealistic. For some reason very few of those are fun to me. 5. Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay!". |
| Edgelords really hate battle shounen huh? |
Reply to Kenzolo-folk
@ShinyLotus
Maybe our idea of change in a character is different, because gon makes a pretty infamous change in character by the end of the anime. Both revy and the main character of black lagoon experience development as well, they aren’t completely the same as when the series started out, and it’s primarily thanks to their influences on eachother and the traumatic experiences they face on their journey
If you put it as specifically in that way then I guess every show has its meaning, but I wasn’t talking about meaning in the absolute sense of the word. More like obvious thematic intention behind something. Hentai and gore shows to me serve a unanimous purpose but of course I can always be wrong about that, media is extremely diverse
“You often confuse relative, absolute, subjective and objective with each other (or don't write down what you think only leads to that impression) ... that's how I see it. Not just here, but in some of the other posts I've read from you too.”
Yes believe me I’m starting to really confuse myself too. I’m having a difficult time getting my point across and I end up contradicting myselfπ₯²π.
“Sometimes you can understand why others are interested (or not) ... sometimes not. That's just the way it is. It's even true for yourself ... sometimes you think you liked an anime because of X and later realise that wasn't the case (partly or at all) or are unable to tell why you liked it.”
Right, exactly my point. If there’s an obvious thematic intention behind a story I can recognize that it exists but that doesn’t necessarily mean I resonate with it. I don’t fault anyone that doesn’t resonate with any of the themes in battle shounen.
Maybe our idea of change in a character is different, because gon makes a pretty infamous change in character by the end of the anime. Both revy and the main character of black lagoon experience development as well, they aren’t completely the same as when the series started out, and it’s primarily thanks to their influences on eachother and the traumatic experiences they face on their journey
If you put it as specifically in that way then I guess every show has its meaning, but I wasn’t talking about meaning in the absolute sense of the word. More like obvious thematic intention behind something. Hentai and gore shows to me serve a unanimous purpose but of course I can always be wrong about that, media is extremely diverse
“You often confuse relative, absolute, subjective and objective with each other (or don't write down what you think only leads to that impression) ... that's how I see it. Not just here, but in some of the other posts I've read from you too.”
Yes believe me I’m starting to really confuse myself too. I’m having a difficult time getting my point across and I end up contradicting myselfπ₯²π.
“Sometimes you can understand why others are interested (or not) ... sometimes not. That's just the way it is. It's even true for yourself ... sometimes you think you liked an anime because of X and later realise that wasn't the case (partly or at all) or are unable to tell why you liked it.”
Right, exactly my point. If there’s an obvious thematic intention behind a story I can recognize that it exists but that doesn’t necessarily mean I resonate with it. I don’t fault anyone that doesn’t resonate with any of the themes in battle shounen.
| @Kenzolo-folk "Maybe our idea of change in a character is different, because gon makes a pretty infamous change in character by the end of the anime." - >No character falls completely into one of the categories, so it's certainly possible that you have a different assessment. But if Rock, Revy, and Gon already fall into the character change category, I would think your categories are largely useless, since I feel basically every character developed falls into that category by your standards. Maybe I am mistaken (though it's also totally fine not to rely those catagories) Also, I don't consider a change in behaviour to be a change in character ... the personality, not the environment that leads to the behaviour, has to change by my standards (which is why I don't consider Rock's beginning to accept/use manipulation and violence to be a change in character ... he simply has no fixed morals and just adapt those who serve the circumstances; he hated violence, egocentrism and manipulation beforehand because in a civilized town they are unable to grant him his interpretaion of freedom and the more he realises how it not the case anymore by witnessing the events around him he starts to disperse from it). "More like obvious thematic intention behind something. Hentai and gore shows to me serve a unanimous purpose but of course I can always be wrong about that, media is extremely diverse" >You can create a bigger and bigger bubble of {meaning, substance, depth, presumed intent, purpose, taste, quality, relatability}, but ultimately these are all subjective abstractions of the objective medium. Just because something is easier to agree on (because people are similar and often share opinions) [‘more obvious’ as you described it] ~e.g. the purpose of a hentai is to jerk off~, and some of them are harder to agree on ~e.g. the hentai stories have deep substance~, doesn't change that. Only associating subjective opinion(s) (correctly) with a person or group is an act of objectivity. Most people believe this (at least subconsciously) and it's only about their rhetorical presentation, which may seem otherwise at first glance. Even statements like ‘if you don't like it, you're just wrong’ are usually nothing more than banter, provocation and stubbornness ... although it's relatable to dislike this kind of behaviour. >Ultimately, it is the recipient and not the sender who determines the meaning (and presumed intention) of something. The same is true for purpose ... there is no intrinsic purpose associated with something, but the purpose is created by someone's actions and motivations (even if the maker intends the spoon to have the purpose of eating, the person using the spoon for this Molybdomania at New Year's creates the actual purpose for which the spoon is used). >The (actual) intentions of the author or the intended purpose are a different topic that has nothing to do with your (original) topic. It's about the sender, not the recipient. "Yes believe me I’m starting to really confuse myself too." - >Many people sometimes do not exclude me with this type of topic. Everyday language and logical explanations often contradict each other and lead you astray. ~People shit on shounen because they don't like fighting~ as an example means in everyday language that this is a reason you think is important and currently comes to mind, but on a logical level it suggests (even means based on the context) that all people who shit on shounen do it because they don't like fighting. |
| "I don't know everything, I only know what the internet knows." - Definitely not best girl. "To ask is a moment's shame. Not to, lifelong." - I quoted with a posed look. |
Reply to alshu
"Battle shounen being misunderstood on this website"
What is there to understand?
1. They are shitty at being funny and entertaining.
2. They annoyingly melodramatic and try to make you emotional with the cheapest tricks in the book.
3. They are supposed to be action packed, but water down their battles with endless nonsensical dialogues and monologues from the type "I will beat the bad guys because I must protect my family/friends." and "Good guys are hypocrite yet weak. They make me sick!". When you fight for real you don't have time to breath even less participate in a lame debate. And don't let me start on "flashback in a fight, which leads to yet another flashback ect.".
4. The battles scenes are kind of low detail and surrealistic. For some reason very few of those are fun to me.
5. Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay!".
What is there to understand?
1. They are shitty at being funny and entertaining.
2. They annoyingly melodramatic and try to make you emotional with the cheapest tricks in the book.
3. They are supposed to be action packed, but water down their battles with endless nonsensical dialogues and monologues from the type "I will beat the bad guys because I must protect my family/friends." and "Good guys are hypocrite yet weak. They make me sick!". When you fight for real you don't have time to breath even less participate in a lame debate. And don't let me start on "flashback in a fight, which leads to yet another flashback ect.".
4. The battles scenes are kind of low detail and surrealistic. For some reason very few of those are fun to me.
5. Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay!".
| @alshu >Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay! This point is just plain wrong π |
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Reply to JoeChip
Edgelords really hate battle shounen huh?
| @JoeChip Some of the critiques do come off as edgy to me for sure |
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| One Piece literally changed my life. I can't stop thinking about it, everything feels like a One Piece reference. |
Reply to e5892
Reducing disliking shounen to "but theres fight scenes" Is rather disingenuous, expecially considering the oversaturation It has, personally i tried Reading some shounens that had the potential to be unique only for them to turn out generic, so i'm farly disillusioned with the demographic, also shounen comedy Is the worst thing i have ever seen, there are some cases in which it was so bad and so much i physically felt nasueous(i'm particularly receptive to psychosomatism) so i try to avoid.
| @e5892 I experience the opposite a lot with shounen. At first it starts off extremely generic and then the author gets more leverage to implement what they actually want into their story and it ends up bordering on seinen. Attack on Titan, chainsaw man, hunter x hunter, and (sort of) jjk end up being extremely different and less generic from how they started out, especially the first two. |
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Reply to alshu
"Battle shounen being misunderstood on this website"
What is there to understand?
1. They are shitty at being funny and entertaining.
2. They annoyingly melodramatic and try to make you emotional with the cheapest tricks in the book.
3. They are supposed to be action packed, but water down their battles with endless nonsensical dialogues and monologues from the type "I will beat the bad guys because I must protect my family/friends." and "Good guys are hypocrite yet weak. They make me sick!". When you fight for real you don't have time to breath even less participate in a lame debate. And don't let me start on "flashback in a fight, which leads to yet another flashback ect.".
4. The battles scenes are kind of low detail and surrealistic. For some reason very few of those are fun to me.
5. Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay!".
What is there to understand?
1. They are shitty at being funny and entertaining.
2. They annoyingly melodramatic and try to make you emotional with the cheapest tricks in the book.
3. They are supposed to be action packed, but water down their battles with endless nonsensical dialogues and monologues from the type "I will beat the bad guys because I must protect my family/friends." and "Good guys are hypocrite yet weak. They make me sick!". When you fight for real you don't have time to breath even less participate in a lame debate. And don't let me start on "flashback in a fight, which leads to yet another flashback ect.".
4. The battles scenes are kind of low detail and surrealistic. For some reason very few of those are fun to me.
5. Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay!".
alshu said: 5. Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay!" Huh, so things like Black Clover, MHA, FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Demon Slayer, Zatch Bell, Noragami, AOT, Soul Eater, Tokyo Revengers, Full Metal Panic, they're all just about "getting bullied" and "it was ojisan's fault", all the psychological torment, trauma, toxic family relationships, and various mental health conditions ranging from social anxiety to OCD, from PTSD to being full on suicidal, and more which is showcased thruout these many series, all that doesn't count cuz they're battle shounen and can't go deeper than "i was bullied in school"... |
 |
| Many Battle Shounen in my opinion either suck ass or are painfully mediocre but ya guys are lucky that I don't shit on them because I actually prefer talking about things that I like instead of wasting my breath with something that is not made for my demographic. |
  MAL is the perfect place to shit talk about people's opinions. |
Kenzolo-folk said: This point is just plain wrong π Give examples of the opposite than... DigiCat said: Huh, so things like Black Clover, MHA, FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Demon Slayer, Zatch Bell, Noragami, AOT, Soul Eater, Tokyo Revengers, Full Metal Panic, they're all just about "getting bullied" and "it was ojisan's fault" Yes. Tho Tokyo Revengers and Full Metal Panic aren't battle shounen. Also no idea what Zatch Bell is about. Kenzolo-folk said: all the psychological torment, trauma, toxic family relationships, and various mental health conditions ranging from social anxiety to OCD, from PTSD to being full on suicidal Those aren't deeply analysed here tho, just bluntly used for melodrama. |
alshuAug 15, 10:34 AM
Reply to Kenzolo-folk
@e5892
I experience the opposite a lot with shounen. At first it starts off extremely generic and then the author gets more leverage to implement what they actually want into their story and it ends up bordering on seinen. Attack on Titan, chainsaw man, hunter x hunter, and (sort of) jjk end up being extremely different and less generic from how they started out, especially the first two.
I experience the opposite a lot with shounen. At first it starts off extremely generic and then the author gets more leverage to implement what they actually want into their story and it ends up bordering on seinen. Attack on Titan, chainsaw man, hunter x hunter, and (sort of) jjk end up being extremely different and less generic from how they started out, especially the first two.
| @Kenzolo-folk yeah sometimes It happens, had the same experience with hxh and chainsaw man, but i'm extremely salty about a shounens that had potential to be and Amazing episodi al serie like mushishi or mononoke and ended up going a more generic route |
Reply to DigiCat
alshu said:
5. Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay!"
5. Battle shounen never goes deeper that "I was bullied at school." and obvious generation gap stuff like "It was the ojsans who messed up the world, they are responsible for our pain, thus now they must pay!"
Huh, so things like Black Clover, MHA, FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Demon Slayer, Zatch Bell, Noragami, AOT, Soul Eater, Tokyo Revengers, Full Metal Panic, they're all just about "getting bullied" and "it was ojisan's fault", all the psychological torment, trauma, toxic family relationships, and various mental health conditions ranging from social anxiety to OCD, from PTSD to being full on suicidal, and more which is showcased thruout these many series, all that doesn't count cuz they're battle shounen and can't go deeper than "i was bullied in school"...
| @DigiCat wait who has ocd in what? I'm always curious to see representation of my diagnosed disease |
Reply to e5892
@DigiCat wait who has ocd in what? I'm always curious to see representation of my diagnosed disease
| @e5892 souleater, death the kid has OCD |
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Reply to alshu
Kenzolo-folk said:
This point is just plain wrong π
This point is just plain wrong π
Give examples of the opposite than...
DigiCat said:
Huh, so things like Black Clover, MHA, FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Demon Slayer, Zatch Bell, Noragami, AOT, Soul Eater, Tokyo Revengers, Full Metal Panic, they're all just about "getting bullied" and "it was ojisan's fault"
Huh, so things like Black Clover, MHA, FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Demon Slayer, Zatch Bell, Noragami, AOT, Soul Eater, Tokyo Revengers, Full Metal Panic, they're all just about "getting bullied" and "it was ojisan's fault"
Yes.
Tho Tokyo Revengers and Full Metal Panic aren't battle shounen. Also no idea what Zatch Bell is about.
Kenzolo-folk said:
all the psychological torment, trauma, toxic family relationships, and various mental health conditions ranging from social anxiety to OCD, from PTSD to being full on suicidal
all the psychological torment, trauma, toxic family relationships, and various mental health conditions ranging from social anxiety to OCD, from PTSD to being full on suicidal
Those aren't deeply analysed here tho, just bluntly used for melodrama.
| @alshu Great, good to know you're the type of person who judges a show simply because it's a certain genre ignoring any substence it may have, the modern equivalent of judging a book by it's cover i guess |
|
DigiCat said: the type of person who judges a show simply because it's a certain genre Thing is I have watched some of those you listed and their "substance" was "putrid water", not to mention 99% of the time the roots of the conflicts there were coming from A) Bulling and B) Dealing with the sins committed by the previous generations. FMA:B, Soul Eater and Full Metal Panic (which is not battle shounen as mentioned above) were even fun...still quite shallow. |
Reply to DigiCat
@alshu Great, good to know you're the type of person who judges a show simply because it's a certain genre ignoring any substence it may have, the modern equivalent of judging a book by it's cover i guess
| @DigiCat How do you come to that conclusion? I just see him saying that he doesn't know one of them and that X is not analysed in depth here [in Battle Shounen], an impression he might have gained by actually having watched several instead of judging the cover. Maybe I'm missing something though. |
| "I don't know everything, I only know what the internet knows." - Definitely not best girl. "To ask is a moment's shame. Not to, lifelong." - I quoted with a posed look. |
Reply to alshu
Kenzolo-folk said:
This point is just plain wrong π
This point is just plain wrong π
Give examples of the opposite than...
DigiCat said:
Huh, so things like Black Clover, MHA, FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Demon Slayer, Zatch Bell, Noragami, AOT, Soul Eater, Tokyo Revengers, Full Metal Panic, they're all just about "getting bullied" and "it was ojisan's fault"
Huh, so things like Black Clover, MHA, FMA, Hunter x Hunter, Demon Slayer, Zatch Bell, Noragami, AOT, Soul Eater, Tokyo Revengers, Full Metal Panic, they're all just about "getting bullied" and "it was ojisan's fault"
Yes.
Tho Tokyo Revengers and Full Metal Panic aren't battle shounen. Also no idea what Zatch Bell is about.
Kenzolo-folk said:
all the psychological torment, trauma, toxic family relationships, and various mental health conditions ranging from social anxiety to OCD, from PTSD to being full on suicidal
all the psychological torment, trauma, toxic family relationships, and various mental health conditions ranging from social anxiety to OCD, from PTSD to being full on suicidal
Those aren't deeply analysed here tho, just bluntly used for melodrama.
| @alshu there are many but these are the ones that stick out to me Naruto -Itachi who was traumatized by war at a young age was easily groomed into killing his clan as a child because he was promised by the government that it would prevent another war. When he is older he has to suffer the consequences of giving up on his family and abandoning his brother. Shows how subjecting a child to adult affairs corrupts their mind. And how being precocious and a prodigy shouldn't warrant being involved in adult problems. -Iruka (Narutos appointed teacher) learns to let go of his implicit hatred towards Naruto (because he was the reason his parents were killed,) he accepts that Naruto is also a victim and that even though its easier to hate him to avoid sadness, he decides to be the stronger person and not let his hatred allow him to be evil to an oblivious child. He is one of the first in the village to do this because Naruto is ignored by the adult ninjas/villagers because they know about the Jinchuriki. Shows how weak-willed people displace their anger onto those that don't deserve it, and the amount of courage it takes to admit that you are wrong about your initial bias of someone. -Haku is a child slave taken in my Zabuza to take part in assassinations in a yakuza adjacent organization. They are both treated like tools and taught to not have any sort of companionship with eachother that goes beyond their work. They are expected to not feel anything if their partner dies or is no longer useful. Haku desperately wants to be noticed by Zabuza because he is the only adult figure that was present in his life. However Zabuza ignores him because he is focused on surviving through their job and doesn't want to be replaced. When Haku dies, Zabuza feels immense regret for never telling Haku that he actually cared about him. The arc shows how despite Naruto's eagerness to be a ninja, the ninja world is extremely f'ed up and ninja lives are disposable. -Gaara is supposed to be a parallel to Naruto. He is also a jinchuriki and the villagers were frightened by him. Because his mom died and his father used him as weapon, the only figure that cared for him was his uncle, Yashamaru. Gaara's sand chakra has a vow to protect him (initiated by his mother who died at Gaara's birth), so it immediately kills anyone without his knowledge. Villagers were scared of him and he wasn't aware of this yet. One day Gaara was attacked by Anbu (assassions that work for the Hokage) and he discovers that this was carried out by his Uncle. His uncle hated him for "causing" the death of Gaara's mother. Gaara also discovered that his mother never had his best interest at heart, as she also always hated him. The vow was esssentially revenge against suno and she believed gaara was a "self-loving carnage". Gaara realizing he's never been loved becomes a child murderer. But seeing naruto who had a very similar childhood not go this path, he is moved by this and tries to forge a new one. Shows how important a support system is to a child. Tsunades arc: Her negligence to help out the village because she was so focused on grieving her dead best friend caused a lot of catastrophe. Shows how people often focus on the dead to ignore helping the living. Nagato: Nagato is a cautionary tale on how people often lose sight of their original pure-hearted goals when faced with adversities, slowly letting themself succomb to evil to carry out their plan. As a child he even influenced Jiraiya to be a better person, but once he became an adult, the effects of the war and being a war orphan caused him to seek out any opportunity to execute his idea of peace. Kakashi: When we first meet kakashi we learn that he only passes Ninja's in the exam if they display teamwork. At first this should be obvious, but we learn from his backstory how rare it is for ninja's to actually care about teamwork. In his original team with rin and obito, obito lets himself be crushed by a boulder to save Kakashi. Rin also lets herself die by Kakashi so that the jinchuriki that was forcibly sealed in her wouldnt destroy the village. Kakashi witnesses two of his teamates commit self-sacrifices and he realizes that comraderie is more important than completing the mission. AOT: Indoctrination, prejudice, racism Reiner literally has a split personality because his child self could not handle the fact he had to kill the people in the walls, so his identity split so that he could forget those events. His personality split from being a soldier of Marley and being a Scout for Paradis island. This was how he was able to easily blend into paradis island because his identity genuinely believes he was apart of that group. He was also indoctrinated from a young age that people from Paradis island are spawns of the devil, and because he wanted to be noticed by his country and his family, he carries out their missions (similar to itachi) Eren: I think erens main theme is the humilation of being forced into a cage and being denied freedom. Because he was so humiliated by what the marleyans did to the people on Paradis island, he used it to justify his actions so that he could finally be free. CSM: Denji wanting to be makimas dog at first seems like he's just a horny degenerate but considering his childhood it makes sense because he had to survive completely on his own and make his own decisions. He is easily seduced by the Control Devil (Makima) because for once he doesn't want to make all the decisions in his life. His complicated childhood also makes him desire the most basic human wants, like eating breakfast, having jam on toast, etc just living a regular life. his desperation to be normal leads to a lot of his actions in the story. Denji's extreme loneliness and want for affection also leads him to be taken advantage of by many people in his life. Shows the lengths people will go to to not suffer from loneliness. Jujutsu Kaisen Nanami is an example of how difficult it is to remain idealistic despite your current situation. In both of his professions (office worker and sorcerer) he hates things about it and he doesn't exactly enjoy it. All he wants to have a vacation and feel relaxed. Being forced to work a job while still having many other things you want to do is mentally straining and at times humiliating. this is especially shown when he dies and part of him is happy about it because he gets a day off work. Yuji: yuji realizes he is apart of something bigger than himself and to cope with the difficult things he has to do he calls himself a cog in the machine, and his personal interests don't matter. in his recent fight with sukuna he abandons this mindset and realizes that the simple things in life (as he reflects from his childhood like believing santa clause is real, catching crabs, drinking hot chocolate) are meaningful as well despite how insignificant it is. He doesn't believe that you have to acquire a risky or dangerous job to feel importance in your life anymore. i believe there are just as many more in shows like FMA Bleach Demon Slayer MHA Jojo and especially one piece but my hands are kinda tired so imma stop lmk if u want to know from those shows tho |
Kenzolo-folkAug 15, 11:57 AM
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Kenzolo-folk said: Naruto It's superficial and dumb. Not a battle shounen per se...but yeah - superficial, dumb and edgy. Also devoid of fun, Naruto at least has some laughs here and there. Not a battle shounen (is it even shouen?) - quite stupid and edgy. It's brutal and deranged for the sake of it. AOT is a true masterpiece in comparison to this trash. Kenzolo-folk said: Jujutsu Kaisen Has some good ideas, but is as shallow and empty of meaning as the rest of the bunch. To sum it all - your idea of "deep" is quite simple and childish. This is like saying that plainly sad or plainly deranged stories are the peak of human culture or something. |
| I like only one battle shounen - the JoJo series since I prefer to treat it as stylish unconventional almost parody battle shounen with much of creativity and comedy vibes. If it lacked anything of those aspects I would dislike it as much as typical battle shounens. |
Reply to alshu
Kenzolo-folk said:
Naruto
Naruto
It's superficial and dumb.
Not a battle shounen per se...but yeah - superficial, dumb and edgy. Also devoid of fun, Naruto at least has some laughs here and there.
Not a battle shounen (is it even shouen?) - quite stupid and edgy. It's brutal and deranged for the sake of it. AOT is a true masterpiece in comparison to this trash.
Kenzolo-folk said:
Jujutsu Kaisen
Jujutsu Kaisen
Has some good ideas, but is as shallow and empty of meaning as the rest of the bunch.
To sum it all - your idea of "deep" is quite simple and childish. This is like saying that plainly sad or plainly deranged stories are the peak of human culture or something.
| @alshu What are some of your favorite themes from anime? Also can you at least explain why something is dumb superficial or edgy instead of just throwing the words around? A lot of the themes are close to problems in real life which makes it easier for people to emotionally connect to |
Kenzolo-folkAug 15, 1:01 PM
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| Shounen is quite literally just a demographic based on the magazine the original work was originally published (in most cases), many fucked up manga like Aku No Hana and Okaeri Alice made their way into the Shounen demographic despite not being the usual shounen shenanigans, and even if you do like the usual battle stuff that's usually expected from Shounen anime and manga, there's nothing wrong with that. I recently finished Bleach and thought it was amazing. Chainsaw Man is also really good. Like what you like. |
 |
Kenzolo-folk said: What are some of your favorite themes from anime? What a weird tangent, do you want to trash on those? Too lazy right now, so here the full list of my favourites - https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1115621&msgid=59097780#msg59097780 and you can extrapolate my favourite themes if you want to waste your time. Mind you I was seeking mostly fun in those and 99% aren't supposed to be deep at all. |
Reply to alshu
Kenzolo-folk said:
What are some of your favorite themes from anime?
What are some of your favorite themes from anime?
What a weird tangent, do you want to trash on those?
Too lazy right now, so here the full list of my favourites - https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1115621&msgid=59097780#msg59097780 and you can extrapolate my favourite themes if you want to waste your time. Mind you I was seeking mostly fun in those and 99% aren't supposed to be deep at all.
| @alshu “What a weird tangent, do you want to trash on those?” >No? π I’m just curious what you’re into because you seem to think a lot of stuff is edgy. Also there you’re just listing titles, I’m asking what type of themes you’re into. If you don’t wanna answer that’s fine lol Edit; actually I’m confused, you criticize battle shounen for being “superficial” yet you seek out shows that aren’t deep at all anyways |
Kenzolo-folkAug 15, 1:25 PM
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Kenzolo-folk said: you seem to think a lot of stuff is edgy A lot of stuff is edgy especially in shounen and shoujo...because teens like edgy...which doesn't redeem the fact it's edgy. And if you like edgy it's fine, but don't try to pass it as "not edgy, but actually has meaning". Kenzolo-folk said: you criticize battle shounen for being “superficial” yet you seek out shows that aren’t deep at all anyways I don't criticize battle shounen for being superficial since this is an intended quality. If you remember I asked "What is there to understand?", as it's by design really easy to do so. Also one of your argument was that a lot battle shounen are deep - I disagreed. None of this means that I search actively for meaningful stuff, I just laugh at people taking Black Clover or ChainsawMan way too seriously. |
Reply to alshu
Kenzolo-folk said:
you seem to think a lot of stuff is edgy
you seem to think a lot of stuff is edgy
A lot of stuff is edgy especially in shounen and shoujo...because teens like edgy...which doesn't redeem the fact it's edgy. And if you like edgy it's fine, but don't try to pass it as "not edgy, but actually has meaning".
Kenzolo-folk said:
you criticize battle shounen for being “superficial” yet you seek out shows that aren’t deep at all anyways
you criticize battle shounen for being “superficial” yet you seek out shows that aren’t deep at all anyways
I don't criticize battle shounen for being superficial since this is an intended quality. If you remember I asked "What is there to understand?", as it's by design really easy to do so.
Also one of your argument was that a lot battle shounen are deep - I disagreed.
None of this means that I search actively for meaningful stuff, I just laugh at people taking Black Clover or ChainsawMan way too seriously.
| @alshu Brother how is it edgy. You can’t just label something without any explanation. Not everything with sad backstories and violence is just straight edginess, you’re overusing the word. My argument is that it’s unfair to say battle shounen is meaningless when it actually does have a lot of meaning to it. It’s fine if it doesn’t resonate with you but pretending like it doesn’t exist isn’t even a fair critique it’s just being close minded and immature |
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Kenzolo-folk said: Yes, it actually does mean it has no substance because the younger audience doesn't care about nuance and issues that matter to real people in real life. Younger people think shounen has substance if the main character whines about injustice. Older people might find substance if the show contends with the intersection between the protagonist and collateral damage on society, etc.Just because it's packed full of fight scenes and is easy to market to a younger audience doesnt mean that it has no substance. The fact that you think "challenging each other's philosophies" is deep proves that you fit into the shounen audience. |
| My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com THE CHAT CLUB. |
Reply to katsucats
Kenzolo-folk said:
Just because it's packed full of fight scenes and is easy to market to a younger audience doesnt mean that it has no substance.
Yes, it actually does mean it has no substance because the younger audience doesn't care about nuance and issues that matter to real people in real life. Younger people think shounen has substance if the main character whines about injustice. Older people might find substance if the show contends with the intersection between the protagonist and collateral damage on society, etc.Just because it's packed full of fight scenes and is easy to market to a younger audience doesnt mean that it has no substance.
The fact that you think "challenging each other's philosophies" is deep proves that you fit into the shounen audience.
| @katsucats I'm honestly impressed by how well you manage to find a balance between aggressively expressing your opinion and phrasing your post so that it can be defended on a semantic/logical level (or by more opinion stating) at all times. |
| "I don't know everything, I only know what the internet knows." - Definitely not best girl. "To ask is a moment's shame. Not to, lifelong." - I quoted with a posed look. |
Reply to katsucats
Kenzolo-folk said:
Just because it's packed full of fight scenes and is easy to market to a younger audience doesnt mean that it has no substance.
Yes, it actually does mean it has no substance because the younger audience doesn't care about nuance and issues that matter to real people in real life. Younger people think shounen has substance if the main character whines about injustice. Older people might find substance if the show contends with the intersection between the protagonist and collateral damage on society, etc.Just because it's packed full of fight scenes and is easy to market to a younger audience doesnt mean that it has no substance.
The fact that you think "challenging each other's philosophies" is deep proves that you fit into the shounen audience.
| @katsucats “Whining” against injustice? As if pointing out something Injust is wrong or immature? Despite history practically revolving around people calling out injustice?? The fact you say it’s whining when injustice is argued says a lot. And speak for yourself, all I hear in battle shounen communities IS people discussing the nuance. There will obviously always be people that only want to be entertained, but a LOT of young people pay attention to the nuances in fiction aimed at tweens and teens When philosophers do it!“challenging each others philosophies” its deep, but when shounen does it it’s suddenly not π |
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Reply to ShinyLotus
@katsucats I'm honestly impressed by how well you manage to find a balance between aggressively expressing your opinion and phrasing your post so that it can be defended on a semantic/logical level (or by more opinion stating) at all times.
| @ShinyLotus Holy glaze dude πππ€ (Character limitttt |
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Reply to Kenzolo-folk
| @Kenzolo-folk Don't worry. I'm also willing to shit on him when he opens the gates instead of staying in his castle. I'm just a little jealous of him because I tend to write endless walls of text and am unable to condense it into something that is expendable when needed. Especially when combining opinions that relate to my taste and logic/semantics in some direct or indirect way at the same time. (I had to look up "holy gaze meaning Gen-Z" XD ... I'm already too old, even though I'm still young) |
| "I don't know everything, I only know what the internet knows." - Definitely not best girl. "To ask is a moment's shame. Not to, lifelong." - I quoted with a posed look. |
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