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Aug 12, 6:02 PM
#1
does anyone else see a lot of users shit on shounen for no apparent reason? they see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is to think that it can't possibly be deep or have meaningful themes. i mean theres a reason a lot of people say their lives changed after watching shows like One Piece and Naruto. Just because it's packed full of fight scenes and is easy to market to a younger audience doesnt mean that it has no substance. A lot of the fight scenes are the characters challenging each other's philosophies or becoming a new version of themself (internally) but through the guise of easily digestible action. |
Kenzolo-folkAug 12, 7:28 PM
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Aug 12, 6:19 PM
#2
The "just" mentality affects not only shounen but all genres, themes and demographics. "Just fighting and shouting", "just boobs and panty shots", "just drinking tea", "just dancing" - you've heard them all. Anything can be (and has been) reduced to "just X" with that kind of mindset. It really says more about the limitations of the speaker than anything else. |
Aug 12, 6:26 PM
#3
Aug 12, 6:28 PM
#4
People just want to look cool and make noise with those arguments. |
Aug 12, 6:59 PM
#5
"They see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is ...it can't possibly be deep." YUP- that's exactly right. Those two things are not deep in any way. You nailed it there. "I mean there's a reason a lot of people say their lives were changed after watching... One Piece and Naruto". Indeed- and all those people are FIVE. Kids entertainment is for kids. "Just because it's packed with fights scenes..." Yes, it being packed with just fights does mean it lacks substance. That is precisely the description of lacking in substance. I AGREE. Easily digestible action (your words) is just that. |
Aug 12, 7:09 PM
#6
Reply to SuperAdventure
"They see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is ...it can't possibly be deep." YUP- that's exactly right. Those two things are not deep in any way. You nailed it there.
"I mean there's a reason a lot of people say their lives were changed after watching... One Piece and Naruto". Indeed- and all those people are FIVE.
Kids entertainment is for kids.
"Just because it's packed with fights scenes..." Yes, it being packed with just fights does mean it lacks substance. That is precisely the description of lacking in substance. I AGREE.
Easily digestible action (your words)
is just that.
"I mean there's a reason a lot of people say their lives were changed after watching... One Piece and Naruto". Indeed- and all those people are FIVE.
Kids entertainment is for kids.
"Just because it's packed with fights scenes..." Yes, it being packed with just fights does mean it lacks substance. That is precisely the description of lacking in substance. I AGREE.
Easily digestible action (your words)
is just that.
@SuperAdventure But within the fight scenes is metaphors of fighting against the opposers beliefs with their own. Avatar the last airbender for example is easy to market to a young audience and has easily digestible fight scenes, yet it has deep themes on honor, responsibility, redemption, integrity, etc Also I’ve never seen a five year old speak about naruto or one piece in that way, they are usually an adult |
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Aug 12, 7:13 PM
#7
Reply to -rkr-
It seems you are specifically talking about battle shounen and not shounen in general. The fact that you are masquerading the misunderstanding of Shounen as ppl's hate towards fight scenes, is the exact reason why a lot of people shit on battle shounen fans.
@Ri-KoRin Yes I’m talking about battle shounen, I didn’t think I needed to point that out tbh. I’m just parroting what I’ve seen. Usually the critique of shounen not being deep enough is that it’s just fighting |
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Aug 12, 7:22 PM
#8
It's only misunderstood on here since people link it to being a genre when it's just a demographic. And some think all shounen is battle shounen. Kind of like what you're doing at the moment saying shounen when you mean battle shounen |
Aug 12, 7:27 PM
#9
Reply to Takoyakirin
It's only misunderstood on here since people link it to being a genre when it's just a demographic. And some think all shounen is battle shounen. Kind of like what you're doing at the moment saying shounen when you mean battle shounen
@Takoyakirin I didn’t feel the need to specify tbh 💀 we’re all thinking about the same thing |
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Aug 12, 7:34 PM
#10
Frfr. When there's screaming and flesh on flesh action in hentai, nobody bats an eye. But when it's two guys in a shounen anime fisting each other, suddenly people call you the weird one. Homophobia, plain and simple. |
Aug 12, 7:47 PM
#11
Well if everyone agrees on everything then there is no point in discussing anything.. This generation prefer anti hero and heroes who ridicules, trolls . society, celebrities, politics, philosophy etc with sarcastic responses..like Gintama.. I have grown past the lets all be friends pure hearted shounen heroes asking their opponents to be their friends after battle.. Honestly it's suffocating to see that in anime then going out and witnessing the real world.. |
Aug 12, 7:56 PM
#12
Reply to RainyEvenings
Well if everyone agrees on everything then there is no point in discussing anything..
This generation prefer anti hero and heroes who ridicules, trolls . society, celebrities, politics, philosophy etc with sarcastic responses..like Gintama..
I have grown past the lets all be friends pure hearted shounen heroes asking their opponents to be their friends after battle..
Honestly it's suffocating to see that in anime then going out and witnessing the real world..
This generation prefer anti hero and heroes who ridicules, trolls . society, celebrities, politics, philosophy etc with sarcastic responses..like Gintama..
I have grown past the lets all be friends pure hearted shounen heroes asking their opponents to be their friends after battle..
Honestly it's suffocating to see that in anime then going out and witnessing the real world..
@RainyEvenings Interesting perspective fr. And yeah they take the pure heart stuff too far. Like orochimaru being invited to narutos wedding even after kidnapping and experimenting on children/other ninjas |
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Aug 12, 8:01 PM
#13
I would think battle shounen is shit on for few main reasons and it's deeper than just fighting and screaming. First off it's a genre that appeals to the masses, while appealing to everyone that it can, it does turn off a lot of people because it's dumbed down (may not be the right phrase) or easy to understand and has a straightforward protagonist. There is nothing wrong with this imo, but it leaves little to be desired overall for people who are looking for something else. Another is the fan bases of the genre, usually very loud, boisterous, and have an imposing mentality on others especially when their anime of choice isn't high on someone else's list. Lastly, it's the dismissal of other anime that someone might have recommended to them i.e; person A recommends a battle shounen to person B, person B watches and may or may not like the anime but watches it completely and comes back with a full on conversation with person A. Person B then recommends person A an anime that isn't battle shounen, person A watches a couple episodes and decides it's boring and dismisses the rest of the anime completely and comes back saying they didn't like it and there's little to no conversation about the anime. Overall, I would say it's less about the anime itself and more about the people who like battle shounen as to the reason it gets shit on so much. |
Aug 12, 8:29 PM
#14
I'd say it's well understood here. The fights and animation are certainly the main focus for the vast majority of popular battle shonen and the biggest reasons why they sell so well. An earnest fan of a battle shonen entry is always free to look for profound meanings within it if they desire so, but they won't be with the majority. And if one truly wants "deep" shows and proclaim this niche as mind-numbing and brainded, there are better suitable tagged entries on this site to look for. Which is to say, it's well established what one will most likely get out of this subgenre. The reason why such entries get bad rep has not much to do with the entries themselves as it has to do with that majority of their fanbases. |
ブレ ブレ ブレブレ |
Aug 12, 8:50 PM
#15
Battle shounen is cool people just slander trying to sound smart. Agree that some of the fanbases are cringe though |
My safe space is in my futa mommy's arms |
Aug 12, 9:15 PM
#16
No! You don't understand! Something has to be a seinen to be profound and deep, and something has to be that to be good! And even if a shonen is deep then it's a seinen like shounen so it doesn't count! |
Aug 12, 9:32 PM
#17
For what it's worth this is just my own opinion... I think it's more that people take this medium way too seriously. Japanese Anime was never meant to be a serious medium to begin with. For one thing Battle Shounen is a completely made up western term and I doubt many would be looking towards Anime battle scenes to find some deep philosophical meaning behind them. I would be shocked to meet someone who watches something like Dragon Ball Z specifically looking for existentialism. As an Anecdote, reminds me of an acquaintance I knew back in the early 90s who rented some Steven Seagal movie on VHS only to find him fast forwarding through the entire movie simply for him to show off the fight scenes in the film. Basically making me sit there watching the same action scenes over and over again almost a dozen times. He ended up doing the same thing when he rented Jackie Chan's Rumble in the Bronx in the mid 90s. lol |
Aug 12, 9:41 PM
#18
ye they just see the rule of cool of the fights and not the power of belief, power of friendships and fighting spirit of the characters that are inspiring |
Aug 12, 9:48 PM
#19
Aug 12, 11:11 PM
#20
They're too repetitive. I wouldn't have a problem with battle shonen if magazines actually tried to create sth new once in a while instead of abusing the same themes. And it has no substance if you repeat the same plot with the same characters over and over again. |
Aug 12, 11:14 PM
#21
Some are good, some are bad, just like every other genre. I even like some kodomo anime so I have no reason to look down on battle shounen for being too childish. |
Aug 13, 2:22 AM
#22
Kenzolo-folk said: does anyone else see a lot of users shit on shounen for no apparent reason? they see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is to think that it can't possibly be deep or have meaningful themes. i mean theres a reason a lot of people say their lives changed after watching shows like One Piece and Naruto. Just because it's packed full of fight scenes and is easy to market to a younger audience doesnt mean that it has no substance. A lot of the fight scenes are the characters challenging each other's philosophies or becoming a new version of themself (internally) but through the guise of easily digestible action YES! Wise words my friend I never understood the notion that certain genres can't be deep, you can have a preference for certain genres, certain storytelling styles, there'll be things you personally connect to and things you don't, and that is more than fair, but that doesn't invalidate what others might find depth in |
Aug 13, 2:24 AM
#23
Reply to -rkr-
It seems you are specifically talking about battle shounen and not shounen in general. The fact that you are masquerading the misunderstanding of Shounen as ppl's hate towards fight scenes, is the exact reason why a lot of people shit on battle shounen fans.
@Ri-KoRin Could you elaborate? What is the misunderstanding in your opinion? |
Aug 13, 2:26 AM
#24
Reply to SuperAdventure
"They see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is ...it can't possibly be deep." YUP- that's exactly right. Those two things are not deep in any way. You nailed it there.
"I mean there's a reason a lot of people say their lives were changed after watching... One Piece and Naruto". Indeed- and all those people are FIVE.
Kids entertainment is for kids.
"Just because it's packed with fights scenes..." Yes, it being packed with just fights does mean it lacks substance. That is precisely the description of lacking in substance. I AGREE.
Easily digestible action (your words)
is just that.
"I mean there's a reason a lot of people say their lives were changed after watching... One Piece and Naruto". Indeed- and all those people are FIVE.
Kids entertainment is for kids.
"Just because it's packed with fights scenes..." Yes, it being packed with just fights does mean it lacks substance. That is precisely the description of lacking in substance. I AGREE.
Easily digestible action (your words)
is just that.
@SuperAdventure And here is the most typical example of someone dissing a genre just because it has x y or z |
Aug 13, 2:37 AM
#25
Reply to smilebit
I would think battle shounen is shit on for few main reasons and it's deeper than just fighting and screaming. First off it's a genre that appeals to the masses, while appealing to everyone that it can, it does turn off a lot of people because it's dumbed down (may not be the right phrase) or easy to understand and has a straightforward protagonist. There is nothing wrong with this imo, but it leaves little to be desired overall for people who are looking for something else. Another is the fan bases of the genre, usually very loud, boisterous, and have an imposing mentality on others especially when their anime of choice isn't high on someone else's list. Lastly, it's the dismissal of other anime that someone might have recommended to them i.e; person A recommends a battle shounen to person B, person B watches and may or may not like the anime but watches it completely and comes back with a full on conversation with person A. Person B then recommends person A an anime that isn't battle shounen, person A watches a couple episodes and decides it's boring and dismisses the rest of the anime completely and comes back saying they didn't like it and there's little to no conversation about the anime. Overall, I would say it's less about the anime itself and more about the people who like battle shounen as to the reason it gets shit on so much.
@smilebit True, the reverse happens too, there's not a shortage of battle shounen fans who dismiss other genres, but doen't this just put the anime fans who dismiss battle shounen on the same level as them? The example you gave of person A (battle shounen fan) and person B (non-battle shounen fan) with person B engaging in conversation and person A being dismissive also happens in reverse (i've seen it happen fist hand), my point is, there'll always be anime fans who are curious and enjoy conversations about things they like and dislike just as there are those who dismiss things just because, but this is regardless of what their preferenses are |
Aug 13, 2:48 AM
#26
Yes, I don't claim mha or jjk are masterpieces but the amount of times I've seen people don't understand character motivations or themes because they come in the thought there is 0 depth to the show (or because they are in the mindset of its just naruto) has made me really disappointed with humanity, mha can have many criticisms but most of the ones I see don't make sense, deku being quirkless isn't more in line with the themes of the story, how does anyone miss the philosophy behind gojo? |
Aug 13, 2:59 AM
#27
Kenzolo-folk said: they see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is to think that it can't possibly be deep or have meaningful themes Having deep and meaningful themes doesn't excuse screaming childish characters for me. It's like speaking with full mouth: I don't care how valuable someone's words are if they spit their food while talking to me. I disliked battle shonen I have watched so far, and that's my conscious choice to avoid them. If you want to change my mind, feel free to recommend something short and cool, I'll check it out. And watching something as long as One Piece or Naruto is just a waste of time imo. Dragged things lack talent and creativity, be it books, tv series or anime - I prefer variety. |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Aug 13, 3:16 AM
#28
Reply to LoveYourSmile
Kenzolo-folk said:
they see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is to think that it can't possibly be deep or have meaningful themes
they see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is to think that it can't possibly be deep or have meaningful themes
Having deep and meaningful themes doesn't excuse screaming childish characters for me. It's like speaking with full mouth: I don't care how valuable someone's words are if they spit their food while talking to me.
I disliked battle shonen I have watched so far, and that's my conscious choice to avoid them. If you want to change my mind, feel free to recommend something short and cool, I'll check it out.
And watching something as long as One Piece or Naruto is just a waste of time imo. Dragged things lack talent and creativity, be it books, tv series or anime - I prefer variety.
@LoveYourSmile apple and orange Naruto and one piece come from a different paradigm in anime production as opposed to say hero academia,shingeki no Kyojin or demon Slayer who all benefices from the season format which make them more palatable. |
Aug 13, 3:53 AM
#29
@Otakupervert890 I know that, my kids tortured me with 2 seasons of demon slayer and almost one whole season of attack on titan... I'm not gonna shit popular shows, let it be just my poor taste what doesn't let me enjoy them. I'll ask just one question that bothered me all the way: why did Tanjiro leave Asakusa? Did he even complete his mission? |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Aug 13, 4:04 AM
#30
The hatred of battle shonen is your typical level of teenage attempts to assert themselves through theatrical attacks on what they consider an easy victim. Few people like isekai as a genre, so you don't get any points for hating it. Moe and the idol show have too many passionate fans who will hit you back. At the same time, battle shonens are quite popular among the mainstream public and at the same time do not have elitist fans, so you can easily attack this to pretend to be a person with refined taste. |
Aug 13, 4:30 AM
#31
RobertBobert said: The hatred of battle shonen is your typical level of teenage attempts to assert themselves through theatrical attacks on what they consider an easy victim. You wrote it like everyone who dislikes battle shonen is an angry teen automagically. That's obviously not true, people tend to dislike different things, some opinions just cause more noise than others. It has nothing with someone's personal elitism. You have to accept that someone says your favorite show is terrible just because they feel so, not because they seek your precious attention lol. |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Aug 13, 4:44 AM
#32
Everything that's popular receives a proportional amount of backlash. |
Aug 13, 4:56 AM
#33
It should be noted there is a difference between hatred and simply just poking fun of genres too. I too have consumed lots of "Battle Shounen" Anime in my lifetime but I tend to make fun of it calling it "Macho Battle Shounen Boner Material". Specifically because it always seems like people get metaphorical hard-ons anticipating for some violent conflict that sometimes takes a full season to finally build up to. lol I even call most Isekai Anime trash but I still find it fucking extremely entertaining to watch no matter how uninspiring or unoriginal something might be or not. I simply just don't take this medium as seriously as I see others. |
Aug 13, 5:05 AM
#34
Reply to DigiCat
@smilebit True, the reverse happens too, there's not a shortage of battle shounen fans who dismiss other genres, but doen't this just put the anime fans who dismiss battle shounen on the same level as them?
The example you gave of person A (battle shounen fan) and person B (non-battle shounen fan) with person B engaging in conversation and person A being dismissive also happens in reverse (i've seen it happen fist hand), my point is, there'll always be anime fans who are curious and enjoy conversations about things they like and dislike just as there are those who dismiss things just because, but this is regardless of what their preferenses are
The example you gave of person A (battle shounen fan) and person B (non-battle shounen fan) with person B engaging in conversation and person A being dismissive also happens in reverse (i've seen it happen fist hand), my point is, there'll always be anime fans who are curious and enjoy conversations about things they like and dislike just as there are those who dismiss things just because, but this is regardless of what their preferenses are
@DigiCat not disagreeing with you there but typically the non shounen fan is looking to talk about other anime with the other person but when their recommendation is dismissed so quickly it leads to a biased dislike of that genre. Again, I don't think its one particular reason, it has to do with multiple factors and being that the genre is so huge and defended so vehemently makes it easy for people to get turned off. From the outside, it tends to look like a cult like behavior even though it's not the intention of the fanbase overall. |
Aug 13, 5:10 AM
#35
I feel like its cuz there are a lot of hardcore anime fans on this website. So they dislike many popular anime which many are shounen and also feels the same way towards people that only wants to watch popular anime. Plus, many people aren't at their "shounen" age anymore. Ofc that impacts the way the view shounen anime. |
ZimmuAug 13, 5:35 AM
Aug 13, 5:23 AM
#36
Reply to RobertBobert
The hatred of battle shonen is your typical level of teenage attempts to assert themselves through theatrical attacks on what they consider an easy victim. Few people like isekai as a genre, so you don't get any points for hating it. Moe and the idol show have too many passionate fans who will hit you back. At the same time, battle shonens are quite popular among the mainstream public and at the same time do not have elitist fans, so you can easily attack this to pretend to be a person with refined taste.
@RobertBobert (Battle Shounen fans may not be elitist because there are so many of them ... but they can definitely be proletarians at times, hunting down with forks and torches those they think are dirty elitists just because someone says he doesn't like battle shounen for being shallow. But that's just an insignificant minority that's easy to recognise and therefore to ignore, so I move on.) There's something else that, from my experience at least, I believe to be true: While most communities just troll you with recommendations (or just overly praising their favorites and trashing yours to tease you) after it becomes clear you don't like their genre, battle shounen fans have this annoying, sincere reaction that they're trying to feed you battle shounen. Either you haven't seen enough episodes of the long-running hit until it gets good, or if you don't like Battle Shounen X, that clearly means Battle Shounen Y is probably made for you. I've never given a genre so many chances just by extrinsic motives - it also hurts goodwill towards a community when it always claims to be misunderstood instead of just being straight and aggressively defending its point of view (because you actually can't tell if it's worth watching when this mysterious fog of ~deep things that supposedly exist and are only ignored by haters~ arises instead of the bright sunlight of ~don't you dare to insult my Shimarin. Cute girls are cute and you're gay if you can't enjoy it~). |
"I don't know everything, I only know what the internet knows." - Definitely not best girl. "To ask is a moment's shame. Not to, lifelong." - I quoted with a posed look. |
Aug 13, 7:15 AM
#37
Reply to ShinyLotus
@RobertBobert
(Battle Shounen fans may not be elitist because there are so many of them ... but they can definitely be proletarians at times, hunting down with forks and torches those they think are dirty elitists just because someone says he doesn't like battle shounen for being shallow. But that's just an insignificant minority that's easy to recognise and therefore to ignore, so I move on.)
There's something else that, from my experience at least, I believe to be true: While most communities just troll you with recommendations (or just overly praising their favorites and trashing yours to tease you) after it becomes clear you don't like their genre, battle shounen fans have this annoying, sincere reaction that they're trying to feed you battle shounen. Either you haven't seen enough episodes of the long-running hit until it gets good, or if you don't like Battle Shounen X, that clearly means Battle Shounen Y is probably made for you.
I've never given a genre so many chances just by extrinsic motives - it also hurts goodwill towards a community when it always claims to be misunderstood instead of just being straight and aggressively defending its point of view (because you actually can't tell if it's worth watching when this mysterious fog of ~deep things that supposedly exist and are only ignored by haters~ arises instead of the bright sunlight of ~don't you dare to insult my Shimarin. Cute girls are cute and you're gay if you can't enjoy it~).
(Battle Shounen fans may not be elitist because there are so many of them ... but they can definitely be proletarians at times, hunting down with forks and torches those they think are dirty elitists just because someone says he doesn't like battle shounen for being shallow. But that's just an insignificant minority that's easy to recognise and therefore to ignore, so I move on.)
There's something else that, from my experience at least, I believe to be true: While most communities just troll you with recommendations (or just overly praising their favorites and trashing yours to tease you) after it becomes clear you don't like their genre, battle shounen fans have this annoying, sincere reaction that they're trying to feed you battle shounen. Either you haven't seen enough episodes of the long-running hit until it gets good, or if you don't like Battle Shounen X, that clearly means Battle Shounen Y is probably made for you.
I've never given a genre so many chances just by extrinsic motives - it also hurts goodwill towards a community when it always claims to be misunderstood instead of just being straight and aggressively defending its point of view (because you actually can't tell if it's worth watching when this mysterious fog of ~deep things that supposedly exist and are only ignored by haters~ arises instead of the bright sunlight of ~don't you dare to insult my Shimarin. Cute girls are cute and you're gay if you can't enjoy it~).
@ShinyLotus How is this different from any passionate fans of any genre? Not to mention that fans and the genre itself are two different things. @LoveYourSmile You are refuting a thesis that you yourself came up with. I'm just saying that hating battle shonen becomes an easy way to stroke your ego. No less and no more. |
Aug 13, 7:22 AM
#38
Kenzolo-folk said: does anyone else see a lot of users shit on shounen for no apparent reason? You're 17. When you get older you'll understand that this genre is mostly garbage targeted at the most common denominator, teenagers, who are too fresh out of the womb to be able to discern quality from mediocrity. There's a few outliers here and there, like DBZ, but most battle shounen is unremarkable and riddled with cliches, boring characters that only appeal to early teens, and terrible pacing, plus fillers. Shit like One Piece could be a watchable experience if it was condensed into 200 episodes. But no, they purposefully waste the viewer's time just because there's not enough source material, and they obstinately decided that this show must air on a weekly basis. So what we get is a show with 5-10 minutes of recaps of previous episodes, long panning camera shots where nothing is happening, pointless and trivial dialogues that don't serve any purpose, and even the voice actors are instructed to speak very slowly to pad out the episode's length. It's hilarious how battle shounen watchers have no respect for their own time and continue to rate this trash show highly. |
BigBoyAdvanceAug 13, 7:27 AM
Aug 13, 7:24 AM
#39
@RobertBobert It's you who put some labels like "teenage attempts", "theatrical attacks" and "pretend to be a person with refined taste" (not sure what else you edited there). So it's not my imagination, you tried to devalue the opinion of the ones who didn't like battle shonen, with no real arguments but your personal bias. |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Aug 13, 7:27 AM
#40
Reply to LoveYourSmile
@RobertBobert It's you who put some labels like "teenage attempts", "theatrical attacks" and "pretend to be a person with refined taste" (not sure what else you edited there). So it's not my imagination, you tried to devalue the opinion of the ones who didn't like battle shonen, with no real arguments but your personal bias.
@LoveYourSmile Please show me where I wrote “everyone who doesn’t like this genre” or “those who don’t like the genre just hate it.” You continue to accuse me of theses that you came up with yourself. Maybe you really hate the genre and that's why a comment about its haters offends you? Because I see no other reason to focus so sharply on the idea that criticizing hatred of a genre means criticizing any dislike of it. |
Aug 13, 7:31 AM
#41
Reply to SuperAdventure
"They see fights and screaming characters and immediately their first instinct is ...it can't possibly be deep." YUP- that's exactly right. Those two things are not deep in any way. You nailed it there.
"I mean there's a reason a lot of people say their lives were changed after watching... One Piece and Naruto". Indeed- and all those people are FIVE.
Kids entertainment is for kids.
"Just because it's packed with fights scenes..." Yes, it being packed with just fights does mean it lacks substance. That is precisely the description of lacking in substance. I AGREE.
Easily digestible action (your words)
is just that.
"I mean there's a reason a lot of people say their lives were changed after watching... One Piece and Naruto". Indeed- and all those people are FIVE.
Kids entertainment is for kids.
"Just because it's packed with fights scenes..." Yes, it being packed with just fights does mean it lacks substance. That is precisely the description of lacking in substance. I AGREE.
Easily digestible action (your words)
is just that.
@SuperAdventure rarely have heard that much bullshit in one post. Sorry to come off so strong, but not just is your comment insulting, but also extremely short-sighted and shows your lack of imagination. Not to mention you are wrong with absolutely everything you say. The fact that you disregard a deeper meaning in battle shonen already shows that you either didn't watch any at all or did not spare any thought towards its deeper meanings, which already would disqualify you from offering any statements in the first place. Second: No, not all people who watch battle shonen and have their life changed are five. Boku no Hero Academia, and Ochako in particular, gave me the courage and strenght to push through one of the hardest phases in my life, where she (and by extension Horikoshi Kouhei and the show) stopped me from commiting suicide. By that point I was not five, but twentyfive. To your last point: Clearly you never bothered thinking about writing in particular. If fightscenes were just people fighting each other, they'd be for the most part the most boring scenes ever. Both in bookwriting and anime those scenese tend to provide lots of emotional touchdowns and growth. The only medium in which fightscenes just for the sake of fightscenes work is NA movies, say, a jackie Chan action scene. It is fun, it looks great, it is even enjoyable, but there is rarely any growth in the character. But like I already said, you probably don't watch battle shonen with the attention they deserve and therefore are disqualified from talking about them in the first place. |
Aug 13, 7:36 AM
#42
RobertBobert said: The hatred of battle shonen is your typical level of teenage attempts to assert themselves through theatrical attacks on what they consider an easy victim. Word "typical" implies generalisation. People may love or hate whatever they love or hate, it doesn't make them angry teens or whatever. In fact, it's you that angry teen who targets the minority with your humiliating statements relying on the support of majority of battle shonen fans lol. And I find it really funny you decided to argue rather than read what I wrote. |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Aug 13, 7:40 AM
#43
Pretty much right. In general, I think the obsession with demographics & the term battle shounen is retarded. |
CielordAug 13, 7:48 AM
spiritual successor of lord rothchild. |
Aug 13, 7:42 AM
#44
Reply to LoveYourSmile
RobertBobert said:
The hatred of battle shonen is your typical level of teenage attempts to assert themselves through theatrical attacks on what they consider an easy victim.
The hatred of battle shonen is your typical level of teenage attempts to assert themselves through theatrical attacks on what they consider an easy victim.
Word "typical" implies generalisation.
People may love or hate whatever they love or hate, it doesn't make them angry teens or whatever.
In fact, it's you that angry teen who targets the minority with your humiliating statements relying on the support of majority of battle shonen fans lol.
And I find it really funny you decided to argue rather than read what I wrote.
@LoveYourSmile Is that all? Just because of the word “typical” you decided that when I criticize hatred of the genre, I criticize any criticism of the genre? And that's why you persistently try to reproach me for this, signaling your virtues at the top of your lungs? And at the same time you are even trying to reproach me for my inability to read? I don't even know what's more outrageous. The fact that you literally reproach me for disagreeing with you, or the fact that you unironically accuse me of not wanting to read what you write after literally provoking an argument by desperately trying to shove points into my mouth that I never said. I would tell you to touch the grass if I didn't realize that it would be too far for you to fly to it from space. Not to mention the fact that you don’t seem to understand how hatred differs from simple dislike. Well, or you understand and are simply trying to defend your obvious hatred of the genre in this way. |
RobertBobertAug 13, 7:52 AM
Aug 13, 7:48 AM
#45
Reply to Cielord
Pretty much right. In general, I think the obsession with demographics & the term battle shounen is retarded.
@Cielord If you read most of the genre-hating comments on this thread, you'll notice that these people either really want to be recognized as mature people with good taste, or they just have a dislike for shonen fans. This was not originally intended to be any kind of reasonable debate, but simply a place for self-affirmation and a salty attack on the genre due to irritation with its fans. Look at the guy who is intensely looking for any reason to retroactively consider my criticism of haters an attack on anyone who criticizes the genre or the guy with a 3.03 as his average rating. |
Aug 13, 7:51 AM
#46
Aug 13, 7:59 AM
#47
Reply to RobertBobert
@LoveYourSmile Is that all? Just because of the word “typical” you decided that when I criticize hatred of the genre, I criticize any criticism of the genre? And that's why you persistently try to reproach me for this, signaling your virtues at the top of your lungs? And at the same time you are even trying to reproach me for my inability to read? I don't even know what's more outrageous. The fact that you literally reproach me for disagreeing with you, or the fact that you unironically accuse me of not wanting to read what you write after literally provoking an argument by desperately trying to shove points into my mouth that I never said.
I would tell you to touch the grass if I didn't realize that it would be too far for you to fly to it from space. Not to mention the fact that you don’t seem to understand how hatred differs from simple dislike. Well, or you understand and are simply trying to defend your obvious hatred of the genre in this way.
I would tell you to touch the grass if I didn't realize that it would be too far for you to fly to it from space. Not to mention the fact that you don’t seem to understand how hatred differs from simple dislike. Well, or you understand and are simply trying to defend your obvious hatred of the genre in this way.
RobertBobert said: Is that all? Just because of the word “typical” you decided that when I criticize hatred of the genre, I criticize any criticism of the genre? And that's why you persistently try to reproach me for this, signaling your virtues at the top of your lungs? And at the same time you are even trying to reproach me for my inability to read? You made an incorrect and unethical generalization in you original post, I pointed to that. You decided to argue, and that resulted on a conversation. "signaling your virtues at the top of your lungs" sounds quite a theatrical teenage attack you wrote above. And "reproach me for my inability to read" clearly makes sense, because you fight watermills here,I don't even attack the genre or you personally, but I insist your generalization was incorrect. RobertBobert said: I would tell you to touch the grass if I didn't realize that it would be too far for you to fly to it from space. I see literally zero arguments in your postings, and now you target my personality. That's quite a bold statement from someone saying loud words about teens asserting themselves by attacking others. I mean you could just agree the generalization was incorrect and move over (or prove it was correct, which you didn't), but well... |
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. |
Aug 13, 8:00 AM
#48
Reply to BigBoyAdvance
Kenzolo-folk said:
does anyone else see a lot of users shit on shounen for no apparent reason?
does anyone else see a lot of users shit on shounen for no apparent reason?
You're 17. When you get older you'll understand that this genre is mostly garbage targeted at the most common denominator, teenagers, who are too fresh out of the womb to be able to discern quality from mediocrity.
There's a few outliers here and there, like DBZ, but most battle shounen is unremarkable and riddled with cliches, boring characters that only appeal to early teens, and terrible pacing, plus fillers. Shit like One Piece could be a watchable experience if it was condensed into 200 episodes. But no, they purposefully waste the viewer's time just because there's not enough source material, and they obstinately decided that this show must air on a weekly basis. So what we get is a show with 5-10 minutes of recaps of previous episodes, long panning camera shots where nothing is happening, pointless and trivial dialogues that don't serve any purpose, and even the voice actors are instructed to speak very slowly to pad out the episode's length. It's hilarious how battle shounen watchers have no respect for their own time and continue to rate this trash show highly.
@BigBoyAdvance I am 37 and my favorite animes are shounen and the number being a battle shounen HxX. And if you think that about DBZ you are talking nonsense. DBZ doesn't compare in quality with many battle shounen, DBZ was great back then, now not so much. |
Aug 13, 8:03 AM
#49
Reply to RobertBobert
@ShinyLotus How is this different from any passionate fans of any genre? Not to mention that fans and the genre itself are two different things.
@LoveYourSmile You are refuting a thesis that you yourself came up with. I'm just saying that hating battle shonen becomes an easy way to stroke your ego. No less and no more.
@LoveYourSmile You are refuting a thesis that you yourself came up with. I'm just saying that hating battle shonen becomes an easy way to stroke your ego. No less and no more.
@RobertBobert "How is this different from any passionate fans of any genre?" - As I said, it's far more impactful/noticeable, at least it was for me (I don't know what you meant by "this", but it should apply to most of the things I wrote). Also, since I was referring to the community as a whole, it's not specifically about the passionate fans, but also their absolute and relative numbers. Please just don't use these kinds of ignorant phrases ... I also didn't headline your post with ~but they/others do it too!~ (although that would have been a perfect target) and instead added something that I think is important from my point of view. "Not to mention that fans and the genre itself are two different things." - I'm not sure where I supposedly mixed it up, but maybe that clears things up: You wrote that attacks on battle shounen are popular because their community is an easy target. I added that conflict with that community (by voicing one's negative opinion of the genre) is also often motivated by their persistent recommendations; so perhaps the whole easy target theory may be a bit simplistic and less of a factor than some people think. Also, I wanted to show how being "nice" (battle shounen fans at the same time do not have elitist fans) can sometimes be more infuriating than just brightly flaming banter (moe/idol fans hitting back) when discussing anime recommendations/taste. |
"I don't know everything, I only know what the internet knows." - Definitely not best girl. "To ask is a moment's shame. Not to, lifelong." - I quoted with a posed look. |
Aug 13, 8:05 AM
#50
Reply to LoveYourSmile
RobertBobert said:
Is that all? Just because of the word “typical” you decided that when I criticize hatred of the genre, I criticize any criticism of the genre? And that's why you persistently try to reproach me for this, signaling your virtues at the top of your lungs? And at the same time you are even trying to reproach me for my inability to read?
Is that all? Just because of the word “typical” you decided that when I criticize hatred of the genre, I criticize any criticism of the genre? And that's why you persistently try to reproach me for this, signaling your virtues at the top of your lungs? And at the same time you are even trying to reproach me for my inability to read?
You made an incorrect and unethical generalization in you original post, I pointed to that. You decided to argue, and that resulted on a conversation. "signaling your virtues at the top of your lungs" sounds quite a theatrical teenage attack you wrote above. And "reproach me for my inability to read" clearly makes sense, because you fight watermills here,I don't even attack the genre or you personally, but I insist your generalization was incorrect.
RobertBobert said:
I would tell you to touch the grass if I didn't realize that it would be too far for you to fly to it from space.
I would tell you to touch the grass if I didn't realize that it would be too far for you to fly to it from space.
I see literally zero arguments in your postings, and now you target my personality. That's quite a bold statement from someone saying loud words about teens asserting themselves by attacking others. I mean you could just agree the generalization was incorrect and move over (or prove it was correct, which you didn't), but well...
@LoveYourSmile You still haven't proven that I made some kind of generalization. Just continuing to desperately look for reasons to blame me for this, to give me a moralistic lecture about how it's okay to hate something. After this, your attempts to accuse me of a lack of arguments and no less desperate attempts to literally insist that should I agree with you are simply incredibly pathetic. If you simply have no other reasonable and mature topic to talk about, then just don't waste my time with these pathetic attempts to insult me just so you don't feel hurt by a pointless argument. |
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