Mushoku Tensei is pretty okay in my book because it has the charismatic character of Vierra.   |
tchitchouanAug 17, 2023 8:55 PM
| Unfortunately, people are entitiled to their opinions. Sorry for your frustration, but you should probably take a break from social media surrounding anime if its frustrating to you. I don't think people will stop. I have no opinion of the show, personally, if that's any relief. |
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
| Made a mistake paying attention to complaints on the internet. A lot of the time it's not worth the brain power. I know because I make that same mistake more often than I care to. |
| And Mushoku is not the first anime to have people complaining about slaves. It's your own fault for liking mainstream anime. |
| Just stop reading what people say lol, enjoy whatever you want to enjoy |
hikkihime said: Just stop reading what people say lol, enjoy whatever you want to enjoy I didn't want to word it like this, but I basically completely agree. Thing is, people really should go onto forums like this or discord discussions about anime if they are actually open to seeing their favorite shows dissed or their opinions challenged. Otherwise, what's the point? You are literally hurting yourself if you don't enjoy what you are doing with your time. It's best to realize you don't enjoy something and stop ruining your own day. |
| There's no inherent right or wrong in this universe, but when we think with emotions rather than logic, we make things so. |
| Stories with slaves are everywhere in anime. you know what isn't? Stories about 14yos suffering from ED. I don't know how anyone has time to complain when we have such a compelling storyline. |
| Mushoku Tensei isn't the only anime where people complain about slavery either. Any isekai that uses it as a plot element will get criticized for it. The biggest example I can think of is the Rising of the Shield Hero. People tend to overlook the context, and just assume it's being portrayed in a positive light because it's something the protagonist does. If it was actually being portrayed as a good thing, then I'd understand the complaints, but at least in the case of Shield Hero, it's not. (Idk about Mushoku Tensei though, cause I haven't watched season 2 yet, and I don't remember slavery being a big thing in the first season) |
| The answer to this is just not to pay attention to it, any series you like will receive some kind of criticism unless it's super obscure. |
| I just ignore the whole show. I don't need to complain about it. |
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Insanity_Monarch said: You're tired of that discussion? Good, just join me in making shoujo great again then!I have been seeing people complaining about slavery in mushoku endlessly to the point that I’m sick of those people. |
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| If only the author of Mushoku Tensei were a good writer, these issues wouldn't be so significant, but what can you do? The guy is a chimpanzee. |
| If you're a fanboy, please don't waste my time. Watch more movies, please. Perhaps, this is hell. |
| People complain about everything, human beings have always been like this, the internet only helps to enhance this hehe. |
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| They probably take issue that the mc is using the slave to fulfill his sexual nature to refine his figure crafting. It is fiction so it ultimately does not matter what the mc does. Pretty sure most viewers already know the nature of MT so the outrage is meaningless. |
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| This is the case with almost every isekai nowadays. Idk why people can't just ignore the show/scene instead of complaining. Nothing's going to change anyways. Moreover, it's a damm show... Fiction. The idea that anyone who watches or likes MT(or any other series) supports slavery or are pedos, is completely wrong and bs |
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| A medieval fantasy setting, that has slavery in it?! Preposterous? Seems like Rudy did not sexually assaulted anyone in a while and haters badly need to complain about something. tchitchouan said: Mushoku Tensei is pretty okay in my book because it has the charismatic character of Vierra. Believe it or not, that outfit actually has a purpose and she dresses like that for a reason. |
PiromyslAug 17, 2023 10:07 PM
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| Generally speaking, anime does not portray slavery in an interesting fashion in my opinion. Most times I would say that the slavery depicted by the medium is pretty bland and uninteresting. The commoditization of people is depicted somewhat accurately, but that's really all I've seen in shows like Rise of the Shield Hero for example. We see characters buy slaves and sometimes free them by becoming "friends", but most slaves remain background characters. I think it would be more interesting if we saw different forms of slavery besides chattel slavery in anime, for example indentured servitude (bond slavery) or serfdom (a form of forced labor) would be interesting to see. I also have not seen any anime go full John Brown and portray abolitionism. This would also be very interesting to see. Maybe both of these ideas of mine have already been acted upon and I just haven't seen an anime exploring slavery beyond the bare minimum. |
Balsamina said: Mhm, people give too much thought to things that don't really matter but I can understand why... if you really like something and want to talk to others about it only to see people trashing on it you might get upset or feel baited into defending it but you're rarely going to change someone's mind by arguing back and forth... so just let it go.hikkihime said: Just stop reading what people say lol, enjoy whatever you want to enjoy I didn't want to word it like this, but I basically completely agree. Thing is, people really should go onto forums like this or discord discussions about anime if they are actually open to seeing their favorite shows dissed or their opinions challenged. Otherwise, what's the point? You are literally hurting yourself if you don't enjoy what you are doing with your time. It's best to realize you don't enjoy something and stop ruining your own day. |
| Complaining about slavery is perfectly valid depending on how it's portrayed in the series. Considering this is Mushoku Tensei and what I watched of it had horrendous portrayals of other heavy topics, I see no reason to believe it doesn't also portray slavery as something good or "haha funny" in some way. |
| Who are you and why do you show your hostility towards a complete stranger whom you've not once spoken with before. Are you seriously asking to get blocked? Well, if that's what your intent is; to tempt me into throwing hands with someone as lowly and insignificant as you, then i may grant your wish provided you articulate yourself a bit better when trying to spite a person of my wavelength. |
| after seeing people cry on forums after season 1 i've started to completely ignore all mt complains, hating, bitching. everyone is better off doing that. i didn't even know people were crying about the slavery thing until i read this post. |
 The end of an era. Thank you Wit, Mappa and Isayama. Feeling half happy, half sad. Kawaii waifus and precious best girls <3333 |
Insanity_Monarch said: I don't think the bulk of people who criticize mushoku tensei is upset by slavery. Like of all the criticism it got you probably chose the most fringe and weakest one to push back against.I have been seeing people complaining about slavery in mushoku. But yea, maybe you agree with the rest of the stuff and just find this one issue asinine, what do I know. |
| I'm honestly baffled at what the author of Mushoku Tensei had to say on the topic of slavery now that I looked this controversy up: About Rudeus: He doesn't really have any feelings of hatred for slavery. He feels like, it's not necessarily the case that all slaves are universally unhappier as slaves than they were before becoming slaves. So while kidnapping is evil, he can't say with certainty that slavery itself is evil and doesn't want to impose his own sense of justice upon a culture he is unfamiliar with. I even had to check to see if it was actually him and not some shitposting twitter account, but apparently it's real. Lol, lmao even. |
| Who are you and why do you show your hostility towards a complete stranger whom you've not once spoken with before. Are you seriously asking to get blocked? Well, if that's what your intent is; to tempt me into throwing hands with someone as lowly and insignificant as you, then i may grant your wish provided you articulate yourself a bit better when trying to spite a person of my wavelength. |
Piromysl said: A medieval fantasy setting, that has slavery in it?! Preposterous? Seems like Rudy did not sexually assaulted anyone in a while and haters badly need to complain about something. tchitchouan said: Mushoku Tensei is pretty okay in my book because it has the charismatic character of Vierra. Believe it or not, that outfit actually has a purpose and she dresses like that for a reason. Yeah i'm aware to what happened to her and her sister. |
| People complaining about mushoku? Well it's nice to know there's still some damn good people out there |
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Insanity_Monarch said: I have been seeing people complaining about slavery in mushoku. Mushoku is not the first anime to have slaves. This is why anime should have never become mainstream. I don't know what you're imagining, but the fandom which complained about things like Uranus and Neptune being made cousins in the Sailor Moon dub would not have been comfortable with slave-owning protagonists either. Anime fans have always been mostly socially progressive, no matter what horrors some corners of the internet have bred. And yes, this is a huge problem with it. While it's not like it's absolutely forbidden for an anime to have a slave-owning protagonist, any such anime has to portray this as very clearly wrong. Slavery is not the kind of thing you get to be neutral about. ShatteredSans said: Mushoku Tensei isn't the only anime where people complain about slavery either. Any isekai that uses it as a plot element will get criticized for it. The biggest example I can think of is the Rising of the Shield Hero. You don't see Now and Then, Here and There being criticised for slavery as a plot element. Because it clearly understands that slavery is bad. (And the protagonist doesn't participate...) People tend to overlook the context, and just assume it's being portrayed in a positive light because it's something the protagonist does More like "being portrayed as no big deal, not an irrecoverable moral failing, because..." |
logopolis said: The feminist show fandom didn't like the erasure of canonically gay characters in the 90s, which means the fandom is left-leaning - a classic.Insanity_Monarch said: I have been seeing people complaining about slavery in mushoku. Mushoku is not the first anime to have slaves. This is why anime should have never become mainstream. I don't know what you're imagining, but the fandom which complained about things like Uranus and Neptune being made cousins in the Sailor Moon dub would not have been comfortable with slave-owning protagonists either. Anime fans have always been mostly socially progressive, no matter what horrors some corners of the internet have bred. And yes, this is a huge problem with it. While it's not like it's absolutely forbidden for an anime to have a slave-owning protagonist, any such anime has to portray this as very clearly wrong. Slavery is not the kind of thing you get to be neutral about. ShatteredSans said: Mushoku Tensei isn't the only anime where people complain about slavery either. Any isekai that uses it as a plot element will get criticized for it. The biggest example I can think of is the Rising of the Shield Hero. You don't see Now and Then, Here and There being criticised for slavery as a plot element. Because it clearly understands that slavery is bad. (And the protagonist doesn't participate...) People tend to overlook the context, and just assume it's being portrayed in a positive light because it's something the protagonist does More like "being portrayed as no big deal, not an irrecoverable moral failing, because..." |
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| I just watch mushoku to see if rudy bangs sylphy at the end, the fact that he didn't screw blondie at the beginning of s2 made me furious but what can we do, the author was scared of eris fanboys, we can't have rudy bang another girl. Eris fans are on the same level as idol fans. |
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| People are able to have different opinions |
| Хайде, хайде, хайде, това е първата зона, брато, първа зона, първа зона, добре, добре, добре, това става тук горе, отива тук горе, само спокойно, само спокойно... Ха, отдясно е, навсякъде отдясно отдясно къде е дясното ти о да добре добре добре тихо мълчаливо не успях да се съсредоточа върху това ЕХ ТЪПАК КОГАТО СИ БАВНО БАВНО ... ой е путката на моето момиче прасе куче, аз Чувствам се добре, о, мамо, *шамар*, какво е това госпожице татко- |
| Slavery is always a controversy no matter of the medium and mainstream have nothing to do with it, as long as there are snowflakes and SJWs. I've heard recently that style of view on anime, as expected went to alt acc |
| I think its hated for different reasons but ok. |
If you enjoyed the time you wasted, then its not a waste of time.  |
Insanity_Monarch said: I have been seeing people complaining about slavery in mushoku. Mushoku is not the first anime to have slaves. This is why anime should have never become mainstream. Yeah, I miss those times when tourists and normies when faced with controversial themes would just don't watch it and walk away. Now they try to force their morals on others and try to corrupt anime as they did comics. We must gatekeep anime hard. |
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| A lot of anime is produced by slaves anyway, so it makes sense. |
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| Well this thread is bound to bring out the brain dead tourists. Shit like this is why I'll always be a fan of Gatekeeping |
| I almost mistook it for an average 4chan /a/ post, the line between mal & 4chan ceases a lil at a slow but steady rate~~ |
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tchitchouan said: Mushoku Tensei is pretty okay in my book because it has the charismatic character of Vierra. That's true. I wish she appeared more... |
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| The issue here is that this media was found by normieland |
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| I'm glad fans of this garbage are straight up admitting only degenerates can enjoy this and everyone else (mentally sane people) are just tourists who have normie SJW snowflake opinions such as "slavery is evil" |
| Who are you and why do you show your hostility towards a complete stranger whom you've not once spoken with before. Are you seriously asking to get blocked? Well, if that's what your intent is; to tempt me into throwing hands with someone as lowly and insignificant as you, then i may grant your wish provided you articulate yourself a bit better when trying to spite a person of my wavelength. |
| None of those people have read the light novels. They don't know peak |
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| mushoku is a pretty good show but I would not rank it as my favorite of the genre. I do feel it is dragging itself and having adultery as a filler similiar to high school dxd. I do think it trying to imitate harem in the labyrinth and go for the typical harem ending is what ishibumi tried to do. My favorite of the genre is dal since it blows people expectations away and have clever foreshadowing, villains similiar to evangelion. But I say lns these days are so different in style |
PeripheralVision said: The thing is, the author largely doesn't care about the moral implications of Rudy's character. If there was any significance to Rudy's pedophile behavior, then lolicon elements wouldn't be framed as comedy and fanservice. If you're viewing nearly every interaction Rudy has with young girls as predatory, then there's no redeeming the character, because the author isn't applying the same logic. No, I think in terms of Rudy being an unlikable character, the author is mainly concerned with how "Rudy" became a jobless shut-in who essentially gave up on life, the kind of person who doesn't even care about his parent's funeral. Rudy's "redemption" isn't really a moral one, it's a personal one, to make up for the life he threw away, and obviously the narrative is sympathetic and forgiving to him, because he was a victim in all this. ShatteredSans said: I understand that Rudeus is supposed to be flawed, but for me personally, he is too flawed. It is one thing for a Soprano-esque series or even a Happy Sugar Life scenario where the protaganist is essentially the villain of the series, but Rudeus is supposed to be understood as a flawed but good person. People tend to overlook the context, and just assume it's being portrayed in a positive light because it's something the protagonist does. So yeah, I think if something Rudeus does is not portrayed in a positive light, it is portrayed in a forgiving light, because the narrative views him as being heroic at heart. The issue is that what he does is either not forgiveable or more importantly, he is just a better looking version of Mineta from Boku No hero Academia. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
| @Risa92 - Yeah, I only meant his past life. The author essentially gives him a free pass in the next life, which kills any moral depth to his character. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
Risa92 said: Lot of people are saying "but Rudeus is supposed to be flawed", that doesn't count in my eyes, if he gets everything he wants in the end and the story itself doesn't have much commentary on him getting that. He might start to view girls with bit more dignity after he drooled over these children at the start, but he still gets to fuck a very underaged girl eventually and tbh I didn't watch enough to say, if the story shows it as a twisted action or not. PeripheralVision said: The Rising of Shield Hero is rightfully criticized, honestly. I am not saying it should be censored or banned, but clearly the slavery aspect of Naofumi and Raphtalia is romanticized to push the romantic shipping in the audience's face. I understand the in-world context for the relationship, but between not giving Raphtalia any real long term narrative purpose or arc besides being Naofumi's awesome cheerleader and the fantasies many people have in the real world, and it all just comes as pandering to a waifu fantasy for many fans. If you are going to have a character have screentime, give them something meaningful to do. I think if you have her more to do, then the complaints would lessen, but having nothing to do seemingly describes the entirety of the second season as it does Post-Aizen Bleach. Also, I might add series like Shield Hero and co also have also very much in common that they portray this Madonna-Whore-Complex/Dichotomy in women with little nuances of character types inbetween, and Shield Hero does this to the very extreme, where they are threatening and evil, or they are unthreatening, lovely and your cheerleader. Either you are as a woman a bitch, who is accusing men of rape, or you an innocent slave, who needs to be freed and then stays loyal for life. LostSpectre said: The thing is, the author largely doesn't care about the moral implications of Rudy's character. If there was any significance to Rudy's pedophile behavior, then lolicon elements wouldn't be framed as comedy and fanservice. If you're viewing nearly every interaction Rudy has with young girls as predatory, then there's no redeeming the character, because the author isn't applying the same logic. No, I think in terms of Rudy being an unlikable character, the author is mainly concerned with how "Rudy" became a jobless shut-in who essentially gave up on life, the kind of person who doesn't even care about his parent's funeral. Rudy's "redemption" isn't really a moral one, it's a personal one, to make up for the life he threw away, and obviously the narrative is sympathetic and forgiving to him, because he was a victim in all this. In which way did he have been a victim in all of this? He was a victim of bullying in his school time and it's understandable he got trauma from this (although you know, people still have their own responsibillity for themselves and their own life), but how has he been a victim after waking up in his new body? He still might have some of the trauma in him, but that shouldn't grant him everything he wants out of his new life eventually. billybub said: Well this thread is bound to bring out the brain dead tourists. Shit like this is why I'll always be a fan of Gatekeeping It's fun how these people automatically come up with the term "tourists", while lot of people critizing some elements in anime are around as long or longer than you are lol. But sure, if you don't have an argument, you are jumping to call other people braindead. Son I saw Akira in a movie theater before you were born, had to rent shit on VHS and actually fan subbed for a minute. So A) I'm not gonna argue the moralities of cartoons, and B) anyone who does is a tourist in my eye. BTW still been here longer than you |
| People complain all too often these days and it includes everyone in this forum and me. Put in a rape scene and see if I care. There's no stopping people from complaining about the things you like and if you've been on the internet for more than a day that much should be obvious. It's funny seeing those people complain about a fictional setting. Reminds me when the author of NGNL got called a racist for not including black people and the author responded with "do you see beast race with animal ears in real life?". |
"Nobody could laugh at someone who's trying their hardest" -Machio- |
PeripheralVision said: That's a perfectly valid, realistic interpretation, but the issue is that the author just doesn't seem to care about realism in this aspect of the story, so unless you're able to just kind of ignore his behavior on a moral level, then you and the author are pretty far apart on this issue. You came to the "correct" conclusion, but it's not the canon one, at least, not in terms of being supported by the narrative. Rudy basically gets a free pass once he's reborn, all he has to do is learn to navigate life as a human being, any moral depth seems to be stripped away from the story. LostSpectre said: The biggest mistake many detractors of this series makes is the idea that the fanbase are full of degenerate lolicons. I do not think this is true. I think most of the fanbase is pretty apathetic to Rudeus' morality because as you said before, the series is about Rudeus having a better life rather than growing as a better person. That is definitely what is intended.The thing is, the author largely doesn't care about the moral implications of Rudy's character. If there was any significance to Rudy's pedophile behavior, then lolicon elements wouldn't be framed as comedy and fanservice. If you're viewing nearly every interaction Rudy has with young girls as predatory, then there's no redeeming the character, because the author isn't applying the same logic. No, I think in terms of Rudy being an unlikable character, the author is mainly concerned with how "Rudy" became a jobless shut-in who essentially gave up on life, the kind of person who doesn't even care about his parent's funeral. Rudy's "redemption" isn't really a moral one, it's a personal one, to make up for the life he threw away, and obviously the narrative is sympathetic and forgiving to him, because he was a victim in all this For me, the difference between Rudeus and an amoral character like Tanya from The Saga of Tanya the Evil is the fact that Rudeus is kind of hard to root for while not being all that interesting to me. In my eyes, he is essentially main character Mineta; now, Mineta is not evil, he is not commiting mass murders left and right like Dabi and Shigaraki is, but he is the most hated character in Boku No Hero Academia due to his one-note character antics. He is unfunny, so without the humour element it is hard to take him as anything but serious, or a serious waste of the shows time. He is not evil, he is annoying. Tanya on the other hand has an ideology and deeply rooted psychological reasons why he does the things that he does. He is unabashly an individualist who does monstrous things, but that reasoning and worldview makes it all the easier to become invested in seeing how the story plays out. Rudeus for me occupies a similar niche to Mineta. His perverse nature is not funny or endearing, it is just pointless fanservice that is laugh at to the point that the only thing left for me is to take it seriously, and there is not enough to really become invested in if you do not see yourself in Rudeus. I can certainly understand having had points in my life where I had to overcome my depression or lack of motivation, but Rudeus' original life was entirely his own fault by the point he died, and it is hard to not attribute his pedophilic nature as not being one of the reasons why he became a useless NEET. Sorry, people don't like those who jack off to their own niece bathing apparently. So I cannot feel anything for Rudeus because he was already a pretty miserable sack of shit, and his moral apathy to the extent that he lacks any strong feelings towards slavery only furthers my own lack of investment in seeing how Rudeus turns out. |
| If you reply back to me and I never respond, I lost interest and don't care. Sorry about that. |
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