Bottom-Tier Character Tomozaki (light novel)
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| Hinami is very similar to Yamazaki and Tamozaki is similar to Hachiman but Tamozaki is more edgy. i don't relate to him that much but i can get why he is thinking that way. second half was better, good ep 8/10 for me |
| U-Y-P-W-O-C-U-T-I-K-A-T-I-P-M-I-N-I-I-D-I-H-I-W-T-S-T-I-W-S-T-O-M-P-T-I-L-U-C-H-N-I-D-T-I-I-Y-I-M-N-O-W-S-T-S-W-N-I-B-W |
| Stupid, but kinda relatable so I'll keep watching. Teach a loser to be a sociopath. Good stuff... |
syncrogazerJan 8, 2021 10:24 AM
| ok like very much invested in all of this...hmm |
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AgehaYoru said: RayReynolds said: There is a lot to take in with this show, and virtually all of it is a ugly and horrifying. Mostly, it's the long speech towards the end about how life and society are fair for everybody, and nobody is born with anything more than superficial advantages or disadvantages that can be overcome with a little effort. I don't even know where to begin with that one. Whether you want to take it on from a wealth angle, a racial angle, or any of a dozen others, it's… uh, certainly one hell of a central thesis to lay down. Which such impeccable timing to real world incidents too! It's pretty difficult to try to see it in the more charitable light of "we can all change and be better people for ourselves and others" when every single character is a massive asshole. This includes the manic pixie girl. She acted friendly in school, then upon running into him later, starts endlessly rattling off that she thinks he's actually a loser that she actually has nothing but disgust for and her previous friendliness was just an act. And all of them have Marty McFly brain rot because everything hinges on being called a chicken (facepalm). The lesson from learning that the person you were worshipping as a god thirty seconds ago is also secretly a massive jackass, but also well-liked, should probably not be... "teach me to fake it like you." I mean, it certainly could be, if the show gave any indication that it understood these were all horrible people, but it most certainly does not. She's great and totally right in every way. We should all be more like her, looking down on those we think are dregs. They deserve their suffering for not trying hard enough. Calm down, lol. It always made me chuckle when someone's ranting angrily about Hinami, about her faking it, she's a manic pixie dream girl (not true) and so on, but it's exactly the point that the author made and probably you'd feel like a dumb person after the story getting to "that point" in the climax (of volume 3). ==== Anyway, I'm really looking forward to see haters/anime only watcher reaction to the climax, which is a turning point for the series. I expect they will adapt the first three books, which is a perfect place for the ending for the anime. You can round out most antagonistic characters in a single episode. Taking three books/12 episodes to redeem a jerk protagonist by some twist is not much of an own on anybody. |
| really reminds of oregairu (in a good way) hope it's a nice slow-burn romance between them |
| It seems fairly generic so far, I the MC doesn't stay such a sadsack for the whole season. I'm not a fan of self depreciating characters. |
| As somebody who practically lives and thinks like the protag, I... can't even relate. What is this bullshit? A girl who looks cute with makeups bs me about me giving up my shitty life of grief and disappointment? Then leave her! why bother talking to her? She has put a lot of efforts to win at both her favorite game and her "real life" game? Okay respectable. Don't really care about the latter part, tho. Let's talk about this favorite game thingy... or not talk at all! (Tho in the first place, if Tomozaki is actually somebody who despise this game called "real life", he would have left Hinami then and there. Anyone who has truly abandoned all hopes regarding real life wouldn't even care about getting insulted irl.) I'm fine if you wanna copy char and copy plot. I'm not fine if you can't explain to me why such char develop that way, why such plot happens that way. Such a pity, since the straightforward lining of the monologue is actually good. Time to drop. |
| Yeah this looks about as cringe as I expected. A high school incel gets a perfect girl to make him respectable without him doing much of the work. If this kind of thing happened in real life then it would be a trash-tier game. The MC has no personality or wit to speak of, so stop comparing him to Hachiman he was clever at least and had reasons for his jaded outlooks. And I’m supposed to believe this guy gets a harem? Give me a break. Also, some of the camera angles sexualizing the girls and even the MC’s younger sister are deplorable. Yikes. |
miscshade said: I’m not sure how I feel about a girl trying to fix a boy, but I’m glad that they’re unlikable as characters because it’ll make their progression more satisfying. GUYS, YOURE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE THE PROTAGONIST, THAT IS THE POINT! I hate this viewpoint on shows like these. Even if a protagonist has some very clear faults, they still need to be likable or relateable since they are the focus of the show. The MC of this anime is supposed to be relatable to otakus that had poor life experiences, offering them the fantasy of a perfect girl making them into the “winners” that they envy. This requires the viewer to like and/or see themselves in the protagonist, which is not the case for many viewers. By not making a protagonist unlikable (especially to start a series) you hold the risk of losing the interest of a lot of viewers if they cannot relate to the character, which is completely understandable. |
| Hmm a classic fighting game huh. Simple in practice but deep in its depth sure is correct. Still being in good in one world doesn't always translate well in the real world. To think that the schools idol Aoi was actually No name though. But man her comments about Fumiya sure were direct. But the pain that Fumiya suffered from society as a result of his innate nature is indeed something that's difficult to break out off. But its nice seeing the gamer pride within Fumiya start him on his path to normalcy within the real world. Life lessons from Aoi though quite the nice twist. Sadly looks like Fumiya's family had long accepted that he can't change from his usual self. Overall an excellent opening ep that while doing well in introducing the main leads also did well to showcase the kind of barriers that exist within society for people that's reluctant to break out of their comfort zones as a result of trauma received IRL. The concept of receiving life lessons offline though sure is interesting and im looking forward to seeing how this goes. |
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AgehaYoru said: Blue_Maroon said: Yeah this looks about as cringe as I expected. A high school incel gets a perfect girl to make him respectable without him doing much of the work. If this kind of thing happened in real life then it would be a trash-tier game. The MC has no personality or wit to speak of, so stop comparing him to Hachiman he was clever at least and had reasons for his jaded outlooks. And I’m supposed to believe this guy gets a harem? Give me a break. Also, some of the camera angles sexualizing the girls and even the MC’s younger sister are deplorable. Yikes. Woah, woah, so much misinformation in a single post? This is a record. >A high school incel gets a perfect girl to make him respectable without him doing much of the work This is wrong, like how could you actually miss it in the first episode dude? If Tomozaki didn't call her out after that first conversation, the story would end there. Because he has the guts to call her out and listen to her, even accepting the advice, it takes an effort and courage for socially awkward guy. Also your BS about him not doing much of the work is false too. You'll see later when Tomozaki is on his own and without her help to solve the problem. >The MC has no personality or wit Oh yes, the intelligent, nihilistic and has a wicked sense of humor type huh? Great, that'd be popular among 14 years old teenagers lol. >And I’m supposed to believe this guy gets a harem? Where did you hear that lmao? This isn't even a harem story and truth to be told, Oregairu is more haremy than Tomozaki-kun. >Also, some of the camera angles sexualizing the girls and even the MC’s younger sister are deplorable. Oh, yeah, let's talk about all those deplorable, sexualized Oregairu merchandises and how much the girls got lewded... For starters, I am not saying Oregairu is without its flaws, but in all 3 seasons, I never saw a shot of the main character between the legs of the main love interest, or a pan-up shot of the younger sister, which is typical way of sexualizing characters in anime and film in general. While the MC in this anime may not get a legitimate harem, it will likely be similar to that of Oregairu where the author hints at those possibilities to spark more fan engagement with ships. I felt this was a little too much in Oregairu too, but the reason I am more apt to accept it in that series is because I can see and understand some of the appealing aspects of Hachiman. While his outlook is incel-y, he is still intelligent, witty, and willing to go put of his way for others (often to a fault). I have yet to see any appealing characteristics in this MC. You say that he recieves this help because he called her out in his incel rant, but I would not call that earning anything. Sure it takes some courage to accept this help, but it is all laid out perfectly so he is essentially just following a script. And when everything goes well with the script, none of this will feel earned because he was just doing what he was told instead of changing himself through his own trials and tribulations (something more relatable than having what you need to do handed to you). |
| Tomozaki monologues just like Hachiman that's for sure. I don't know about this anime tbh. It seems too forced, Aoi randomly goes out of her way to do all of this for him, who she barely even knows... Not to mention her annoying character. Also it seems from this episode that this show will be fully focused on romance and finding a GF. (which is obvious that she will be the one). Idk, I have mixed feelings. |
| Top tier reflexes and game awareness. Top ranked in Japan. Make a streaming channel and be a millionaire within 3 years. Poor guy. Should people that don't even know that e-sports exists be making a story about a videogamer? Dude is like Michael Jordan complaining he's bottom tier. |
SokahJan 8, 2021 12:46 PM
AgehaYoru said: Blue_Maroon said: I hate this viewpoint on shows like these. Even if a protagonist has some very clear faults, they still need to be likable or relateable since they are the focus of the show. The MC of this anime is supposed to be relatable to otakus that had poor life experiences, offering them the fantasy of a perfect girl making them into the “winners” that they envy. This requires the viewer to like and/or see themselves in the protagonist, which is not the case for many viewers. By not making a protagonist unlikable (especially to start a series) you hold the risk of losing the interest of a lot of viewers if they cannot relate to the character, which is completely understandable. If I meet someone in real life who says "Woah Hachiman is just so like me! He's so witty", I'd be cringing. Giving a more grounded characterization like this is a nice breather. I'm tired of seeing teenagers idolizing that kind of witty (cringe) characters. This is not a series for people who like to self-insert themselves into some unrealistic witty protag. I’m sure you must have seen many people online relating to Hachiman saying “I was just like him in high school”. Personally, I was not one of those people, but having been a teenager myself, I could see where he was coming from. But like I said previously, a protagonist needs to be likable and/or relatable. Characters that are witty and clever are more likable because that is a desirable trait. Witty and clever people are more well-liked by others and that is a fact. While you may call this “grounded characterization” I call this a soulless character. The MC of this anime has almost no personality aside from his incel outlook on life. I would say this is the easiest self-insert for the audience because there is no personality to speak of. It’s like a generic, OP, isekai protagonist that has no distinct personality so the audience can project themselves onto them. |
AgehaYoru said: Blue_Maroon said: For starters, I am not saying Oregairu is without its flaws, but in all 3 seasons, I never saw a shot of the main character between the legs of the main love interest, or a pan-up shot of the younger sister, which is typical way of sexualizing characters in anime and film in general. While the MC in this anime may not get a legitimate harem, it will likely be similar to that of Oregairu where the author hints at those possibilities to spark more fan engagement with ships. I felt this was a little too much in Oregairu too, but the reason I am more apt to accept it in that series is because I can see and understand some of the appealing aspects of Hachiman. While his outlook is incel-y, he is still intelligent, witty, and willing to go put of his way for others (often to a fault). I have yet to see any appealing characteristics in this MC. You say that he recieves this help because he called her out in his incel rant, but I would not call that earning anything. Sure it takes some courage to accept this help, but it is all laid out perfectly so he is essentially just following a script. And when everything goes well with the script, none of this will feel earned because he was just doing what he was told instead of changing himself through his own trials and tribulations (something more relatable than having what you need to do handed to you). Bolded part: Now this is the comment I've been waiting for. Because people who dropped the series after just a few chapter into volume 1 have always been pointing this out, without realizing the story is going in that way! I believe the anime will adapt the first three volumes, so all your question and irritation in that regards, will be the trigger for the climax and becomes a turning point for the series. Just keep watching. Note: I know some haters are still going to bitch around and say "do you really need to spend three volumes to redeem the story! It's shit! I ain't following it even though I have never put any effort into trying it in the first place!". I already gave up on these kind of people like the guy I argued with before. They're beyond helpless. If that is the case, then I am glad that the story is not as predictable and clean as I have thought. Assuming that eventually the MC has some actual agency in his actions, that would be a step-up from the alternative. That being said, the character still needs to have some personality by that point. I’m going to give this anime 3 episodes at least, if I see some promise then I will keep going. If not, then I will probably drop it and check back on the score to see if this turning point is worth me powering through. |
wow this guy is literally me! |
| Man, this was quite relatable and even painful to watch haha. To be honest I'm not a fan of any of the protagonists, Tomozaki is relatable but at the same time he goes too far and the girl is too pushy. I understand that her philosophy comes from her own experience but I feel that she simplifies things too much. And then the goal... I just hope it doesn't imply that they're going to end up together. I know it's only the first episode but I don't feel like there's any romantic chemistry between them. First episode was all right. There are still many characters to know so looking forward to what is to come. |
AgehaYoru said: Blue_Maroon said: I’m sure you must have seen many people online relating to Hachiman saying “I was just like him in high school”. Personally, I was not one of those people, but having been a teenager myself, I could see where he was coming from. But like I said previously, a protagonist needs to be likable and/or relatable. Characters that are witty and clever are more likable because that is a desirable trait. Witty and clever people are more well-liked by others and that is a fact. While you may call this “grounded characterization” I call this a soulless character. The MC of this anime has almost no personality aside from his incel outlook on life. I would say this is the easiest self-insert for the audience because there is no personality to speak of. It’s like a generic, OP, isekai protagonist that has no distinct personality so the audience can project themselves onto them. > I would say this is the easiest self-insert for the audience because there is no personality to speak of. It’s like a generic, OP, isekai protagonist that has no distinct personality so the audience can project themselves onto them Oh, you sure about that? The fact that some people seethe and says it's hard to watch, doesn't that mean Tomozaki himself is a difficult character to self insert to, because he reminds them about themselves. I absolutely disagree with how you degrading Tomozaki to some isekai protagonists lol. Not even close, I mean... how do you even get to this conclusion? I'd say, witty characters like Hachiman, Sakuta, and Ayanokouji are easier to self insert to for otaku. I mean, that's the most generic and self-insert bait personality you can come up with! "Woah, he's a loner, but wait! He's so intelligent, witty, and if other character insults him, he always come back with such a WITTY answer!" That kind of character always made me roll my eyes, no offense. Their shows are entertaining to some extent. But that kind of trope is overused and absolutely generic. >While you may call this “grounded characterization” I call this a soulless character. Fine, that means Tomozaki has some room for him to grow and as he grows more confidence, he will come up with his own personality. Even soulless character can grown into soulful character if they put effort. This is that kind of story. I prefer him instead some forced witty personality, it's like trying too hard to be funny and be liked? Again, overused, generic tropes. Blue_Maroon said: If that is the case, then I am glad that the story is not as predictable and clean as I have thought. Assuming that eventually the MC has some actual agency in his actions, that would be a step-up from the alternative. That being said, the character still needs to have some personality by that point. I’m going to give this anime 3 episodes at least, if I see some promise then I will keep going. If not, then I will probably drop it and check back on the score to see if this turning point is worth me powering through. Just like I say above, Tomozaki does grow as a person. As he develops more confidence, he can figure out what are the best response to certain social situation. Again, the series is grounded in reality so you won't see over the top situation like in Oregairu. Although I think you'll probably just drop it after three episodes. Because like I said, if the pacing is just as I predicted, the pacing would be 4 episodes/volume. You won't even get to the end of volume 1. Which if I have to be honest... it'd be a filter for people who got irritated by the series. Yes, the ending of volume 1 is a bit cringe. I felt that way too, but considering this is the author's first time into writing, I found that volume 1 is the weakest volume in the series, meaning it only gets better after that. Also, MAL score isn't everything, I suppose. Fine if you want to use it for indicator. But then again, I'm ready to see the score drops as it bombed by haters. That's fine with me because for a fact I know the series is good, because I've been following and actually read it. Well, suppose you eventually dropped it due to various reasons (like MAL score being bombed), I guess it's better to end this argument here. I just want to say, no hard feelings, if you like the series, I'm glad, if you don't even try to finish it, that's fine with me too. I compared the MC of this anime to a generic isekai protagonist because they both have no distinct personality. You may say that having a witty, intelligent, incel character is also easy for audience to self-insert (I agree), but that is not the point I’m making. I bring up characters like Hachiman because they are watchable even if you do not relate to them because their conversations are more dynamic and interesting. I would argue that this MC is clearly inspired by Hachiman, but not as developed. He has Hachiman’s jaded view down, but it is presented in a gamer viewpoint with not much of a philosophy to back it up. He is not as much of a character right now as he is a vehicle for the otaku demographic to self-insert themselves into the character. This is why I compared him to a generic isekai protagonist, since they are easy for the audience to insert themselves in and enjoy a power fantasy. I am not saying that this MC has a similar personality to an isekai protagonist, I am saying that the overall function of their characters are similar. But I agree that we can be done arguing because there is not much to be gained by continuing. Cheers. |
| As a Brawlhalla player I can relate to everything he's saying about Atafami rofl (I know it's closer to Super Smash Bros) |
| I had to pause this so many times because of just how cringe the dialogue and main character was. I hated how they overused game buzz words. it's like they wanted make sure you knew that this guy games. I also don't understand why Hinami expected to meet anything other than a no life neckbeard when trying to meet the top ranked player in basically smash. I can tell already that this show is gonna cause a lot of headaches for me... |
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| I feel like i will like the blue haired long hair girl already alot more. She even look better. Still Main girl have a good point and actually agree with her mindset and think the same she does personally. In real life this dude would hate on girls on the internet and be an incel hating on girls then try to play the life game (Life game is hard for most people sometime). |
SweanimeJan 8, 2021 2:27 PM
| I hope this becomes the new gen Oregairu, I loved the first episode. |
 my life was made with mematic. |
| I like this duo of tomozaki and aoi. Aoi IMO is more relatable for me. |
 just wanna feel wanted by someone other than the police š« |
| its alright nothing amazing nothing awful |
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Thunderbird227 said: I had to pause this so many times because of just how cringe the dialogue and main character was. I hated how they overused game buzz words. it's like they wanted make sure you knew that this guy games. I also don't understand why Hinami expected to meet anything other than a no life neckbeard when trying to meet the top ranked player in basically smash. I can tell already that this show is gonna cause a lot of headaches for me... bruh same here, I like the premise but the dialogue is absolutely dreadful wtf |
Tokoya said: adapatations are not supposed to be carbon copies of source materials and until the anime community in general can accept that and judge an anime based on what it presents and how they handle every episode, these threads will continue to be filled with hate posts by purists |
| If this is gonna be Hachiman 2.0 then i dig this show! 5/5. good solid first ep! |
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| Loved this. So appropriate in time with the facemasks. I'm interested to see where they will go with this. |
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| very cringey. I guess they are living in a world where they can claim themselves pro gamers while something as E sport tournaments are not existed. |
| “Wow, who knew nanashi would turn out to be an unkempt loner who has given up on the real world?” Aoi clearly doesn't know enough gamers smh This is a neckbeard's fantasy of where he gets a waifu who changes him. Pure cringe fuel. |
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| Pretty solid premiere. It was not surprising who NO NAME was gonna be, but her attitude towards the MC was a little rude, I mean I get where she's coming from, but still.. I do like her though, she did seem to redeem herself a bit by going to help Tomozaki out "playing the game of life". That plan though, talking to three girls.. That really hurt for someone who had simular issues in highschool, that's a tough one. Looking forward to see where this will go! |
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| The MC is a completely IDIOT, but since it seems he really wants to change, only can get better (or I hope so). I don't know if is my fault for having high expectations but yeah, i really want this show grown on me since I hate this first episode. |
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| Popular girl teaches gamer guy to not be lame... Lame & dropped. I also hate setups like this where people know each other in a game and just so happen to not only know each other IRL but go to the same school or something. That's the "coincidentally meeting the transfer student before meeting them in class" trope times a billion. Do these authors not understand how many thousands of people play a game? It's dumb. |
SilentCaay said: Popular girl teaches gamer guy to not be lame... Lame & dropped. I also hate setups like this where people know each other in a game and just so happen to not only know each other IRL but go to the same school or something. That's the "coincidentally meeting the transfer student before meeting them in class" trope times a billion. Do these authors not understand how many thousands of people play a game? It's dumb. And yet life itself has a nasty habit of throwing coincidences like these out a lot of the time,so you're argument,though it has weight,doesn't really hold water to me. IE:"damn,its a small world,isn't it" Personally,I enjoyed this(though I've had the LN on hold for a while,just had to much to read to get round to it just yet),even though,yes,its similar to others,I still enjoyed the interaction between Tomozaki and Hinami so far.Just waiting for him to get on with the "game of life" ,and then have it all "crash" on him.It's bound to happen.Right back to the desktop he goes :) |
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