do you like sexual fanservice when the character feels embarrassed or feel shame?
| because in Japan the embarrassing is cute, also sexy. Especially in attractive characters. In addition, the red face, trembling voice, restlessness of a cute girl, to me represents innocence and tenderness. |
| I think it is the idea of purity. A lot of men worldwide fetishize female purity and virginity. It’s a monkey brain thing of being the one to defile her and make her yours. |
  ♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
| There is no Body shaming at all. It is just that they feel embarrassed when hey get in these uncomfortable Situations. |
deg said: I don't think slut shaming is the phrase you're looking for.i just remember the proper word for it slut shaming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming |
ChandelaNov 28, 2019 1:13 PM
| Usually it's just scenario based embarrassment, like being seen naked. I'm a western male and *I'd* be embarrassed if somebody walked in on me while I was changing clothes or taking a shower or something, and I have a lot of trouble seeing it as some unnatural or strange, alien reaction. It also is kind of cute in a way - the blushing, the fidgeting, so on and so forth - or it sets up a punchline reaction, even if said punchline is hardly the point of the scene. Western sexualization treats the topic a lot more casually, for better or worse, meaning there's a lack of prudish reactions like this but at the same time a lot more randomly slapped on "TITS ARE EXISTING IN THIS SCENE" bits. I'm not a fan of this style because of the lack of emphasis and generally far less explicit nature of it. No, having exposed tits in the background of a scene or two people fucking missionary style on a table, once again in the background, while the scene itself is first and foremost about expository dialogue and everything is shifting your focus on that. It's way more dull in my book and I am diametrically opposed to it becoming the style we see in anime more. I'd rather not eat grey prison slop when I'm seeking this kind of entertainment, and if you like it, well, western media tends to feature this way of doing things prominently so have at thee, go out and venture into those lanes more because that's already the standard form in western media for the most part. Chandela said: deg said: I don't think slut shaming is phrase you're looking for.i just remember the proper word for it slut shaming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming I also don't, because there's nothing slutty about changing clothes or taking a shower or whatever, which is going to be 90% of the scenes OP is describing. It is what might be the absolute most standard reaction of the scenario being taken into animated exaggeration in most cases and little else and applying this label to what's going on feels entirely inaccurate and unwarranted. |
ManabanNov 28, 2019 12:32 PM
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Being embarrassed is simply cute. @Xstasy @Alpha_Tranny @deg, I can't believe how much you overanalyse this simple thing; it's simply considered cute when they're embarrassed over it. |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
deg said: xA-2 said: because in Japan the embarrassing is cute, also sexy. Especially in attractive characters. In addition, the red face, trembling voice, restlessness of a cute girl, to me represents innocence and tenderness. you find awkward embrassed girls more hot? its a turn off for me lol Yeah, at first it seemed strange to me but in the end I understood. Similar to when I discover a new fetish. As @Alpha_Tranny says, it's basically an idea of purity. And it can be sexy in certain cases. (But it's the opinion of a simple pervert, so it doesn't count for everyone haha) |
deg said: Don't beach episodes usually introduce the girls like this:xA-2 said: because in Japan the embarrassing is cute, also sexy. Especially in attractive characters. In addition, the red face, trembling voice, restlessness of a cute girl, to me represents innocence and tenderness. you find awkward embrassed girls more hot? its a turn off for me lol Bourmegar said: There is no Body shaming at all. It is just that they feel embarrassed when hey get in these uncomfortable Situations. dude i see this embrassment faces of anime girls even in the right situations like on a bath or beach episode lol and why they gonna feel shame on times to show off their perfect body |
deg said: the wiki definition is spot on though "who are perceived to violate expectations of behavior and appearance regarding issues related to sexuality." For some reason I heavily doubt it's going to be the case to the extent where the girl will be seen as slutty because some guy walked in on her changing at an inopportune time Like idk fam, that's like some Islam-tier shit, and while Japan might be prudish I don't think it's even remotely close to that level of prudery Also yes, beach episodes are practically irrelevant to what he's making an issue out of by and large still |
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| @Peaceful_Critic nah there are plenty of awkward girls on beach/bath episode like this popular meme thats the best i can quickly find right now as an example though so im sure there are better examples out there  Manaban said: deg said: the wiki definition is spot on though "who are perceived to violate expectations of behavior and appearance regarding issues related to sexuality." For some reason I heavily doubt it's going to be the case to the extent where the girl will be seen as slutty because some guy walked in on her changing at an inopportune time Like idk fam, that's like some Islam-tier shit, and while Japan might be prudish I don't think it's even remotely close to that level of prudery Also yes, beach episodes are practically irrelevant to what he's making an issue out of im not sure since i mean Japan even censors their porn and their porn have some of this awkward sex where the girl is even in pain lol |
deg said: @Peaceful_Critic nah there are plenty of awkward girls on beach/bath episode like this popular meme thats the best i can quickly find right now as an example though so im sure there are better examples out there All she did was wear a jacket over her swimsuit and then take that jacket off when she got to the beach itself deg deg said: im not sure since i mean Japan even censors their porn and their porn have some of this awkward sex where the girl is even in pain lol I do not know on what planet that "Pixelating genitals in your porn" and "The woman being treated and shamed as a slut/being ostracized for being deviant for accidentally being seen changing clothes or taking a shower as a result of an inopportune accident that's entirely out of her control" are on the same tier of prudishness deg Like sure the porn censorship is stupid, but that's uh, far, *far* less than the dystopian society of prudery that you're describing here, and you can't fall back on that as substantiation to get this much of an escalation suddenly treated as reasonable |
ManabanNov 28, 2019 12:44 PM
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deg said: @Manaban ye like i said there are far more better examples than that but that is just one popular meme example i can think of right now and have you seen this particular episode of Guilty Crown? because she really feels embarassed on some scenes before that What if it's just body insecurity deg what if it's that they're more worried that other people will see them as fat or ugly, even if it seems impossible to us as the viewer, because confidence and self-perception isn't necessarily as reliant on what the audience would think and what if the audience is responding to that body insecurity by finding it kind of adorable because, in actuality, the character is treated as excessively elegant and beautiful in the audience's eyes i mean i don't remember what scene you're talking about but i can tell you that based on what you told me, that's probably much more likely the case than systemic anti-sex attitudes slut shaming women for wearing a fucking bikini, you absolute lunatic |
ManabanNov 28, 2019 12:51 PM
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deg said: I don't know about the context, and though she looks embarrassed at the end, she may have been feeling that way for what she was about to do(as taking the thing off was something she did without hesitation nor blushing).@Peaceful_Critic nah there are plenty of awkward girls on beach/bath episode like this popular meme thats the best i can quickly find right now as an example though so im sure there are better examples out there The other examples you are thinking of are probably harem shows where the girl asks the guy if he likes her bathing suit. In which case the blush would be nervousness as she wants to look fashionable in front of him and is afraid of his answer. |
| It's a Japanese thing, definitely. They're very humble and feel shame quite easily. In America, when someone compliments you, you normally say "Thank you". In Japan, instead of "thank you", the 'correct' response is "Oh, that's not true at all". Otherwise you come across as conceited. So they say. |
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really all it takes for you to get defensive is for me to say something like "you absolute lunatic" i'm bewwy sowwy i didn't take your wittle sensitive soul into consideration, i guess well, you're certainly trying to tie enjoying this kind of content into deplorable behaviors like slut shaming, which kind of escalates it beyond a nitpick, doesn't it? deg said: embarassment or feelling shame has multiple factors anyway that includes social cutlure and self perception and im just saying why is it more common in japan to have this sort of embarrassment or even awkward pain like what they are doing with the sex in their porn Again, i repeat myself, if your main thing is going to be that they censor their porn Manaban said: I do not know on what planet that "Pixelating genitals in your porn" and "The woman being treated and shamed as a slut/being ostracized for being deviant for accidentally being seen changing clothes or taking a shower as a result of an inopportune accident that's entirely out of her control" are on the same tier of prudishness deg Like sure the porn censorship is stupid, but that's uh, far, *far* less than the dystopian society of prudery that you're describing here, and you can't fall back on that as substantiation to get this much of an escalation suddenly treated as reasonable i'd rather not waste my life having a circular discussion if the only thing you can do to cling onto your viewpoint, offer some drivel about SOCIETY INFLUENCES PEOPLE'S SELF PERCEPTION (which is true to an extent, sure) and then following that up with AND THIS SOCIETY IS SO PRUDISH THEY CENSOR THEIR PORN |
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| That's odd because the ones that I've seen aren't embarrassed, then again they're women not girls... |
Please learn about cel animation and its technical process. Learn how special effects and backlighting were done without computers. |
deg said: @Manaban i escalated it with the japanese porn since the point im trying to make is "sexual awkwardness is painful to watch" its not enjoyable for me at least the slut shaming bit is just to tie in with the shame culture there happening in japan if that is wrongthink to you then fine you can ignore it there's a difference between labeling something as wrongthink and labeling something as stupidthink, deg something can become stupidthink whenever it's escalated to a degree that the substantiation and reasoning for that escalation doesn't seem to uphold, which is precisely my issue with what you're claiming here, as i've already laid out multiple times and you're not really doing much to justify that escalation and seem to be skirting trying to do as much with anything, making an appeal to relativism like this and then following it up by treating it like i'm trying to silence you, the latter of which being the heavy undertones of referring to what i'm interpreting as a poorly thought out/bad opinion as me treating it as "wrongthink" also, whether or not it's enjoyable to you personally also suddenly doesn't make the escalation to slut shaming reasonable, if anything quite the opposite, it's even less reasonable than before because you're just accusing people of slut-shaming mentality in their sexual gratification because of your personal distaste for this kind of content, which would be outright petty |
ManabanNov 28, 2019 1:11 PM
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Sphinxter said: Being embarrassed is simply cute. @Xstasy @Alpha_Tranny @deg, I can't believe how much you overanalyse this simple thing; it's simply considered cute when they're embarrassed over it. But why is it cute? Isn't everything about us atleast instinctively based on our evolutionary history? Of course there is a margin of error in reference to nurture but I do believe there is a prevalent evolutionary nature of obsessing over female purity. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
| It's cause the juxtaposing of lewdness and innocence is like 120% of japan's cultural identity at this point :>. And the simplest form of that is lewd body/outfit/pose + innocent personality/character. Which can most efficiently be conveyed in a still image by making them self-aware, blushing, embarassed about the 'dirty' pose they are striking or outfit they are wearing or the camera angle, but obviously not embarassed enough not to still do it to please the viewer. It's the fact that they try so hard to overcome their embarassment just to give you fap material that really makes them so precious. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
deg said: actually i do not see anything wrong with my replies so far so ye i may as well be stupid in your level of thinking if you want to just toss out some vapid, non-additive bullshit to cling onto your bad hot take then that's not my place to fix your personal shortcomings, but i'm definitely going to relish in pointing out what seems like some pretty major logical gaps i guess i'm here to stay, mein schatz, so you're gonna have to deal with me <3 i see what you tried pulling above as quite problematic, for reasons i already explained multiple times, and i definitely don't want to lend it credibility by treating it with passivity i'm not being abusive or even as heated as you seem to think, and i've definitely got a vested interest in opposing what you want to put out there in this case, so ye, i'm not going anywhere |
ManabanNov 28, 2019 1:16 PM
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xA-2 said: Yeah, at first it seemed strange to me but in the end I understood. Similar to when I discover a new fetish. As @Alpha_Tranny says, it's basically an idea of purity. And it can be sexy in certain cases. (But it's the opinion of a simple pervert, so it doesn't count for everyone haha) Wouldn't the opinion of a simple pervert be the exact opinion one would look for this kind of question? |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
Alpha_Tranny said: It's obviously cute because the character appears vulnerable.Sphinxter said: Being embarrassed is simply cute. @Xstasy @Alpha_Tranny @deg, I can't believe how much you overanalyse this simple thing; it's simply considered cute when they're embarrassed over it. But why is it cute? Isn't everything about us atleast instinctively based on our evolutionary history? Of course there is a margin of error in reference to nurture but I do believe there is a prevalent evolutionary nature of obsessing over female purity. When Níng Dīng mistakenly thought he had won the match, fistpumped, went over to shake the hand of his opponent, whilst actually being at 10-08 rather than 11-08, and when realizing the mistake, put his hand in front of his face and looked extremely embarrassed, everyone thought it was extremely cute. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| Lol just because someone is sexy doesn't mean they're okay with people seeing them in sexual situations, its pretty normal to be embarassed.Put yourself in the shoes of those. |
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Sphinxter said: Alpha_Tranny said: It's obviously cute because the character appears vulnerable.But why is it cute? Isn't everything about us atleast instinctively based on our evolutionary history? Of course there is a margin of error in reference to nurture but I do believe there is a prevalent evolutionary nature of obsessing over female purity. When Níng Dīng mistakenly thought he had won the match, fistpumped, went over to shake the hand of his opponent, whilst actually being at 10-08 rather than 11-08, and when realizing the mistake, put his hand in front of his face and looked extremely embarrassed, everyone thought it was extremely cute. Regardless, your said situation is only cute because of the fact we are evolutionary conditioned to think it is. That and cute embarrassment from a mistake VS cute because of sexually embarrassed are different things and contexts. |
♡ Harder Daddy ♡ |
I mean yeah, no shit if you're applying pretty holistically negative labels in this context and continuing to persist with them even in the face of, like, idk, a ton of more reasonable explanations at this point, what else are you doing other than trying to attach enjoying a certain kind of sexual content to a shameful and generally poorly held behavior? also, what is the exact type of behavior that tends to occur in instances of slut shaming or kinkshaming or whatever if not precisely that? im just pointing out the shame culture of japan can might as well be link to slut shaming, another example is the purity of voice actresses like the famous news about Haruhis voice actress having sex while still in the anime industry although ye this is just an extension of this topic instead of being too literal about the topic was stuff like the idol/seiyuu purity culture in those fandoms ever treated as reasonable or sane by anybody, within japan or outside of it even anime/manga that reference it like bakuman portray it in a pretty creepy and abusive light |
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but that doesn't change that their reactions are often rooted in the way people respond to thing that's happening is it exaggerated to a point of disbelief? sure, doubt the guy is going to get punched and go flying into space for walking in, it's not even really possible but is it unrealistic for a person to be embarrassed/agitated if they get walked in on at a poor time like that? deg said: @Manaban lets make it clear i want slut shaming to be gone in fiction at least thats it im not trying to worsen slut shaming here at all well we're on the same page with that, even though i dislike trying to tie this facet of sexuality into slut shaming primarily because of your personal discomfort with it immensely and because i also don't like it, irl or in fiction, and because i also want it to be gone, it's imperative that i don't let stuff like this be grouped in with it, because it really just isn't and it's ludicrous to even entertain as much |
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| I guess that some manga or anime done it once, and then some wanabe authors had thought that this is "funny" and they added this also to they're work. The consequence of this, is that a new generation of authors assume that the viewers are already accustomed to this kind of scenes, and they won't even ask themselves "why does it happen" because it already is a thing in almost every other anime and manga. |
| Jolyne Kuujou + Steel Ball Run Universe = Billie Eillish |
deg said: @Manaban are you implying you rather not talk about social taboo or social stigma stuff like found in anime and japan then? if that is the case we really got a different approach to this matter no, i'm saying that whenever i see an objectionable negative grouping of sexualized content like i am seeing here with your grouping of this type of fanservice with slut shaming, i am going to object to it i don't see where any subtext of "I'm unwilling to talk about this" is present in what i said, nor in my behavior in this thread considering i'm still here |
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deg said: i misinterpreted that wrong then In another timeline, another plane of existence, another dimension, Dan Quayle or George W. Bush graced us with this line instead of you, Deg. deg said: so your whole disaggreement is me being negative about sexual embarassment of characters that i find paiinfully awkward especially when i introduce the slut shaming phrase that i link Kindaaaaa, you're getting warmer, I guess. I don't care what you find attractive and what you don't, all power to you there. I *do* object to the way you're trying to group this as a form of slut shaming, as well as the idea of it being linked to slut-shaming, and I've reiterated *why* I object several times already and feel like that was kind of met with off-the-wall responses that didn't really add or refute anything coming from your end, hence my growing irritation at this conversation. |
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| idk ask the sexy girls yourself.... |
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