| if you saw an anime that has significant flaws and plotholes but you love it neverthless , what will you do if you have to review it? |
| I usually rewatch it after a while and nitpick the shit out of it and hate on it for those plotholes. JK idgaf tbh, if the main plot is good then idc bout min details c: |
 |
| Yeah, a few plotholes are always tolerable. |
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| I'd objectively review it adding that even though it had bad parts I enjoyed it. |
 |
| I don't know what a plothole is, and I don't care to know. |
 |
| I don't even notice plotholes when I watch myself, only when other people talk about them then I realise them. |
| Everything is flawed to an extent, so it's only natural to forgive the imperfections of your favorites. However, anything with glaring plotholes prolly isn't going to be a favorite of mine, with the exceptions of campy, self-aware shows (essentially shows that don't take themselves seriously, using flaws to their advantage for the sake of entertainment value). |
 "I am not sure that I exist, actually. I am all the writers that I have read, all the people that I have met, all the women that I have loved; all the cities I have visited." ― Jorge Luis Borges [url=]Goodreads[/url] | [url=]Letterboxd[/url] |
| Well, I don't review anything. That aside, I think it depends on how big the plot hole. If the entire plot hinges on the show not explaining something that should be explained then my appreciation for the show is likely to drop dramatically. |
| FlowersInTheRain said: FMAB kinda has one and it is in your favourites. Ling yao and lan fan somehow speak the same language as amestrians despite being from a different country.Not only them xerxes people seem to speak the same language has well. It probably isnt a huge plothole but It is quite illogicalIf an anime has plotholes then it isn't my favourite so there is nothing to forgive. |
| It wouldn't be my favourite anime if I couldn't look past its (probably minor) plot holes. |
 |
| No show is perfect no matter how much I might love it and plot isn't always the be-all and end-all of a show, if the characters, acting, soundtrack and everything else is on point then I can easily ignore a plothole/plot armour/plot convenience but it could influence my overall score in the end |
JoyBoy_316Oct 30, 2019 10:37 AM
| I don't even realise when there's a plothole or not. lmao |
 Life is a despicable endurance race |
| I recently reviewed Madoka and spent time on various of the plot holes. That I liked it is no excuse for the various plot holes therein, they are to be pointed out as I would have liked it more were they not there. |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
monkeyDberzerk said: One Piece, OreGairu and Monster don't have any notable plot holes so far. So there really isn't anything for me to 'forgive'. Haki pre timeskip is quite the big plothole but I guess it depends of what you mean by notable |
| Depends on the type of story an anime is trying to show for me. Something like Getbackers I would actively expect plot holes. But not for Code Geass or Death Note. That being said, they are fiction done by thinking people who are not perfect so if the story overall is good, its ok to forgive a few plot holes here and there. |
| Best ending line in anime history = "My name is Saiki Kusuo. I am a psychic." |
| plot driven story vs character driven story if its plot driven story like a lot of plot twists (like literally every episode) like Code Geass then obviously i will care about plot holes but if its character driven story like Ping Pong The Animation that cares more about the psychological struggles of characters than the plot then i can forgive it |
iggykimi said: I'd objectively review it adding that even though it had bad parts I enjoyed it. Yeah same. Btw Gintama is fucking great. |
 ❅Aoishi❅ ✿My Profile ✿MyAnimeList ✿MyMangaList |
| I also forgive plot holes from the anime I hate except for one. Death Parade is the only anime which should be hated for its plot holes and the plot holes within them. |
| Most plot holes aren't real plot holes. People who want to shit on an anime can just interpret everything in their own way, making up 'plot holes' along the way. They are very subjective most of the time. But even if they aren't there is still the matter of context, of relevance, of whether a specific issue really matters for what the show at large is trying to do and therefore whether it is reasonable to care about it or if only people who actively want to shit on something pretend it is important enough to drag down the show as a whole. The plot hole itself is only marginally important, but if you want me to accept your criticism you need to convince me of why it is important, why I should care about it in this particular context. People usually fail at this. But even if the plot hole is not purely subjective AND I see it's relevance, it will likely not ruin the show for me if I otherwise love it. The 'plot' in 'plot hole' indicates that it is an issue related to the plot, and that is usually among the least important factors for me in most shows (which also plays into why I often don't see plot holes as very relevant criticism when to me the show is all about the characters, dialogue, atmosphere etc....). Hence even if the plot were riddled with holes, unless it's one of the rare shows where the plot is the only or main reason why I'm invested in the show, it won't do a whole lot of damage to my enjoyment. It might solicit a sigh from me here and there, in honor of the lost potential of how it could have been done right, but I very rarely dwell on plot holes unless I'm already not very invested in a show. As I said earlier, obsessing about alleged plot holes is usually an activity for when a show doesn't capture your full attention and you start looking for reasons why you don't like the show. Overall, as you may notice, I don't think very highly of 'plot holes' as a criticism. They're almost always more subjective and based on interpretation than the people complaining about them are willing to admit and because of that they feel more like a rhetorical tool that haters or self-obsessed criticis use to shit on something in a pseudo-objective way. To most people the term 'plot hole' sounds more objective than other kinds of criticisms and critics and haters like to borrow that false sense of objectivity to camouflage their opinions with it. But I always find it very transparent when the term is just used to objectify completely subjective, negative-focused interpretations. Unfortunately that is the case for the majority of cases where the term is used, at least in my experience on MAL. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Lel0uchZer0 said: deg said: plot driven story vs character driven story if its plot driven story like a lot of plot twists (like literally every episode) like Code Geass then obviously i will care about plot holes but if its character driven story like Ping Pong The Animation that cares more about the psychological struggles of characters than the plot then i can forgive it Code geass is a character driven story so... your point is kinda irelevant err no google what the definition of plot driven story then |
Lel0uchZer0 said: deg said: err no google what the definition of plot driven story then I think it is character driven story because it only cares about what lelouch does , likes and thinks. A plot driven story should be able to exist without one character and code geass does not exist without lelouch... he is the story and the story only progresses when he does lelouch reacts to the circumstances he is in, a plot driven story is about causality and plot twists more than psychologically analyzing their behavior and actions plus character driven story usually have those plot holes in order to focus on the characters psychology and philosophy more like what im hearing witht the movie Your Name while plot driven story like Code Geass have to stay consistent on its plot especially plot twists same with characters being consistent in a plot driven story more, did Lelouch become out of character in the end for example? no |
| In almost anything I watch, I'm very easy going when it comes to plotholes. I just take whatever the story gives me and don't usually question it. Only if the plothole is bad enough that I notice it immediately and it throws off the whole story do I get upset with it |
monkeyDberzerk said: JoyBoy_316 said: Haki pre timeskip is quite the big plothole but I guess it depends of what you mean by notable I'd say it was handled pretty well considering that the Grand Line and the East Blue are known to be occupied by marines/pirates who are far weaker than those in the NW (edit: which explains why it wasn't as well known pre-ts). And the top tiers like Newgate, Rayleigh, Hancock and the admirals did use advanced haki. Then there's the fact that Shanks used conqueror's the first chapter, Enel, his lackeys and Aisa used observation back in Skypiea, Sentomaru and the Kuja used armament in the Sabaody arc and (MANGA SPOILERS AHEAD) it's been hinted that Zoro used the breath of all things (advanced Armament) in Alabasta. |
JoyBoy_316Oct 30, 2019 11:59 AM
| If by forgive you mean "just find some flaws too inconsequential to care about" than yes I do. Though if I think something has "significant flaws and plot holes" it most likely would not be one of my favorites at all to begin with and assuming I still enjoyed it, than it would end up with a 7 or 8 rating instead. |
| "Laws exist only for those who cannot live without clinging onto them." -Souske Aizen "Bleach"  |
| Plot contrivances and swiss cheese is one of my least to point out, it simply doesn't bear too much on the bigger picture, unless, I agree with the conspicuous ones however, but I find a lot of miss points to be innocuous. Some even relish in that self-awareness, Black Dynamite is an example of that, goddamn love how the meticulous intended plot holes in there. But I usually look at the idea more, and it's deliverance, that's why I'm not a fan of the movie Joker. No, not the execution itself, but what it want to point out. But anyway, enough of digression, moving pass the holes, imperfection is perfection. There are works out there when it has this tid bits of failure, not all, but some makes me love it more than what it could have been if perfected. It's all part of its charm for me, and hopefully, people come to understand that, especially in certain series that shouldn't need to explicitly explain you everything, and some goes without explanation to add to that charm, an era of writing came from that charm. |
 𝔚𝔞𝔫𝔫𝔞 𝔱𝔬𝔲𝔠𝔥 𝔶𝔬𝔲, 𝔚𝔞𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔫' 𝔶𝔬𝔲 𝔴𝔦𝔱𝔥 𝔞𝔩𝔩 𝔪𝔶 𝔪𝔦𝔤𝔥𝔱 ______________________ |
| All of my favourite anime do not have plotholes cuz I care about quality. |
| All weebs creatures of the galaxy, hear this message. Those of you who listen will not be struck by western animation. You will no longer know hunger, nor pain. Your Anime have come to lead you now. Our strength shall serve as a luminous sun toward which all intelligence may blossom. And the impervious shelter beneath which you will prosper. However, for those who refuse our offer and cling to their western animation ways… For you, there will be great wrath. |
Pullman said: Most plot holes aren't real plot holes. People who want to shit on an anime can just interpret everything in their own way, making up 'plot holes' along the way. They are very subjective most of the time. But even if they aren't there is still the matter of context, of relevance, of whether a specific issue really matters for what the show at large is trying to do and therefore whether it is reasonable to care about it or if only people who actively want to shit on something pretend it is important enough to drag down the show as a whole. The plot hole itself is only marginally important, but if you want me to accept your criticism you need to convince me of why it is important, why I should care about it in this particular context. People usually fail at this. But even if the plot hole is not purely subjective AND I see it's relevance, it will likely not ruin the show for me if I otherwise love it. The 'plot' in 'plot hole' indicates that it is an issue related to the plot, and that is usually among the least important factors for me in most shows (which also plays into why I often don't see plot holes as very relevant criticism when to me the show is all about the characters, dialogue, atmosphere etc....). Hence even if the plot were riddled with holes, unless it's one of the rare shows where the plot is the only or main reason why I'm invested in the show, it won't do a whole lot of damage to my enjoyment. It might solicit a sigh from me here and there, in honor of the lost potential of how it could have been done right, but I very rarely dwell on plot holes unless I'm already not very invested in a show. As I said earlier, obsessing about alleged plot holes is usually an activity for when a show doesn't capture your full attention and you start looking for reasons why you don't like the show. Overall, as you may notice, I don't think very highly of 'plot holes' as a criticism. They're almost always more subjective and based on interpretation than the people complaining about them are willing to admit and because of that they feel more like a rhetorical tool that haters or self-obsessed criticis use to shit on something in a pseudo-objective way. To most people the term 'plot hole' sounds more objective than other kinds of criticisms and critics and haters like to borrow that false sense of objectivity to camouflage their opinions with it. But I always find it very transparent when the term is just used to objectify completely subjective, negative-focused interpretations. Unfortunately that is the case for the majority of cases where the term is used, at least in my experience on MAL. I completely agree with this, especially on how most so called plotholes have very simple explainations. If you didn't like the show enough to pay close attention to the logic behind certain plot points that's fine but nitpicking details just because you want an objective reason not to like something other then that it didn't engage your interest enough is a little petty. actuallyaadhi said: FlowersInTheRain said: FMAB kinda has one and it is in your favourites. Ling yao and lan fan somehow speak the same language as amestrians despite being from a different country.Not only them xerxes people seem to speak the same language has well. It probably isnt a huge plothole but It is quite illogicalIf an anime has plotholes then it isn't my favourite so there is nothing to forgive. These aren't plot holes: 1. Ling is a prince so it makes sense he's been trained in the language and culture of their neighboring country or at least had the means to do so when he decided to go on his quest. The same goes for his bodyguards. Hiromu Arakawa even put in a joke where he pretends not to speak it so you know it's something she considered. 2. The people of Xerxes may "seem" to be speaking the same language but just as the Amestrians are probably not speaking Japanese either it's just the translation that makes it so the audience doesn't need subtitles/the anime staff doesn't have to create a whole language for one episode. |
BebopHakushoOct 30, 2019 7:50 PM
| None of my faves has plot holes so I dunno. |
| Stay Home and Wash Your Hands. Protect Yourself. Protect Your Loved Ones. Protect Your Community and Help Defeat Coronavirus. |
| Well, DBZ is my favorite anime of all time... so I guess with that I'm already answering your question. |
| I mean, yea. With a long show like Naruto, you are gonna have tons of plotholes |
"Perfection is perception. For me, humanity's imperfections is what makes it perfect"  |
Bebop_Hakusho said: Pullman said: Most plot holes aren't real plot holes. People who want to shit on an anime can just interpret everything in their own way, making up 'plot holes' along the way. They are very subjective most of the time. But even if they aren't there is still the matter of context, of relevance, of whether a specific issue really matters for what the show at large is trying to do and therefore whether it is reasonable to care about it or if only people who actively want to shit on something pretend it is important enough to drag down the show as a whole. The plot hole itself is only marginally important, but if you want me to accept your criticism you need to convince me of why it is important, why I should care about it in this particular context. People usually fail at this. But even if the plot hole is not purely subjective AND I see it's relevance, it will likely not ruin the show for me if I otherwise love it. The 'plot' in 'plot hole' indicates that it is an issue related to the plot, and that is usually among the least important factors for me in most shows (which also plays into why I often don't see plot holes as very relevant criticism when to me the show is all about the characters, dialogue, atmosphere etc....). Hence even if the plot were riddled with holes, unless it's one of the rare shows where the plot is the only or main reason why I'm invested in the show, it won't do a whole lot of damage to my enjoyment. It might solicit a sigh from me here and there, in honor of the lost potential of how it could have been done right, but I very rarely dwell on plot holes unless I'm already not very invested in a show. As I said earlier, obsessing about alleged plot holes is usually an activity for when a show doesn't capture your full attention and you start looking for reasons why you don't like the show. Overall, as you may notice, I don't think very highly of 'plot holes' as a criticism. They're almost always more subjective and based on interpretation than the people complaining about them are willing to admit and because of that they feel more like a rhetorical tool that haters or self-obsessed criticis use to shit on something in a pseudo-objective way. To most people the term 'plot hole' sounds more objective than other kinds of criticisms and critics and haters like to borrow that false sense of objectivity to camouflage their opinions with it. But I always find it very transparent when the term is just used to objectify completely subjective, negative-focused interpretations. Unfortunately that is the case for the majority of cases where the term is used, at least in my experience on MAL. I completely agree with this, especially on how most so called plotholes have very simple explainations. If you didn't like the show enough to pay close attention to the logic behind certain plot points that's fine but nitpicking details just because you want an objective reason not to like something other then that it didn't engage your interest enough is a little petty. actuallyaadhi said: FMAB kinda has one and it is in your favourites. Ling yao and lan fan somehow speak the same language as amestrians despite being from a different country.Not only them xerxes people seem to speak the same language has well. It probably isnt a huge plothole but It is quite illogical These aren't plot holes: 1. Ling is a prince so it makes sense he's been trained in the language and culture of their neighboring country or at least had the means to do so when he decided to go on his quest. The same goes for his bodyguards. Hiromu Arakawa even put in a joke where he pretends not to speak it so you know it's something she considered. 2. The people of Xerxes may "seem" to be speaking the same language but just as the Amestrians are probably not speaking Japanese either it's just the translation that makes it so the audience doesn't need subtitles/the anime staff doesn't have to create a whole language for one episode. but lings speaks the same language with lan fan and fu instead of their xinghese language.Also this "plothole" exists in so many other shows also like avatar the Last Airbender where all the 4 nation speak the same language and in evangelion where asuka speaks ultra fluent Japanese despite being German, So I think it is just a minor problem |
actuallyaadhi said: Bebop_Hakusho said: I completely agree with this, especially on how most so called plotholes have very simple explainations. If you didn't like the show enough to pay close attention to the logic behind certain plot points that's fine but nitpicking details just because you want an objective reason not to like something other then that it didn't engage your interest enough is a little petty. These aren't plot holes: 1. Ling is a prince so it makes sense he's been trained in the language and culture of their neighboring country or at least had the means to do so when he decided to go on his quest. The same goes for his bodyguards. Hiromu Arakawa even put in a joke where he pretends not to speak it so you know it's something she considered. 2. The people of Xerxes may "seem" to be speaking the same language but just as the Amestrians are probably not speaking Japanese either it's just the translation that makes it so the audience doesn't need subtitles/the anime staff doesn't have to create a whole language for one episode. but lings speaks the same language with lan fan and fu instead of their xinghese language.Also this "plothole" exists in so many other shows also like avatar the Last Airbender where all the 4 nation speak the same language and in evangelion where asuka speaks ultra fluent Japanese despite being German, So I think it is just a minor problem Obviously you missed something from the second point I made before because you still seem confused on the idea of Non-Diegetic language translations for the sake of the audience even though it's probably one of the most common tropes in audio/visual storytelling. As for Asuka... You do realize that she's a child genius who's also a perfectionist and that NERV knew she would be probably sent to Japan someday so they would have given her lessons which as I mentioned before she would easily master. Avatar though... Hmmm, I mean it would have been some interesting world building to have it apparent that they were speaking different languages and needed to accommodate for language barriers at certain points of the show but I guess that just would have been to much an inconvenience so it could be easily assumed that as a fantasy world all the different cultures shared a singular language for some reason... Not really a plot hole in my opinion but maybe a rare piece of world building in the show that could have been more interesting. |
| If I didn't they wouldn't be part of my Favorites would they. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
| For me to forgive plot holes in my favorite shows, there has to be a plot to begin with. ...Unless, "plot hole" means something else in the contest of what I like. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
 |
actuallyaadhi said: FlowersInTheRain said: FMAB kinda has one and it is in your favourites. Ling yao and lan fan somehow speak the same language as amestrians despite being from a different country.Not only them xerxes people seem to speak the same language has well. It probably isnt a huge plothole but It is quite illogicalIf an anime has plotholes then it isn't my favourite so there is nothing to forgive. Why the differences in language is a plothole lol ? The reason why most countries in our world have different languanges is because they lived isolated from each other for a long time in the past, and by closer they are with each other then more similar their languages in general. Amestris, Xerxes and Xing are neighboring countries. |
"The Slave is the have-not, the oppressed one with nothing to spare. But because the Slave is in that despairing situation, having nothing, it can kill the Emperor !" |
| Plot holes are very ubiquitous. If I based my scores around how many plot holes a show has, subtracting a little for each plot hole, then I'd end up rating some shows I enjoy less higher than shows I enjoy more. For me, plot holes only negatively affect a shows score insofar as they affect my enjoyment of the series upon realization. Some minor shit like Cell surviving having his head blown off?... I don't care that much. |
| Yeah, I forgive everything to Anohana, because main idea and emotions > plotholes. "Why Menma can't just throw something to show Super Peace Busters that she is alive?" |
| It depends on the size of the hole. If it's something barely noticeable - why care? But if it's something in the focus of the story... Like in Sol Bianca: Taiyou no Fune the antagonists were trying to capture the ship and make it part of an exhibit but suddenly decided to destroy it. At that point it was relatively easy to send a squad to wipe out the crew: four girls, one of them (the navigator) in a coma, another one being 14 years old.... Also there were some remains of a similar ship on Earth. The only explanation is that the commander suddenly went insane or something... |
| Anime that have plotholes aren't my favorite. Stupid question. |
 |
| No, I cannot forgive them. Also if anybody finds any Plotholes in Konosuba, Ghost in the Shell, or Mirai Nikki, please let me know. I would be happy to listen unlike the rest of the Braindead Normie Masses that get mad when you provide real logic that something doesn't makes sense. |
 |
Bebop_Hakusho said: Pullman said: Most plot holes aren't real plot holes. People who want to shit on an anime can just interpret everything in their own way, making up 'plot holes' along the way. They are very subjective most of the time. But even if they aren't there is still the matter of context, of relevance, of whether a specific issue really matters for what the show at large is trying to do and therefore whether it is reasonable to care about it or if only people who actively want to shit on something pretend it is important enough to drag down the show as a whole. The plot hole itself is only marginally important, but if you want me to accept your criticism you need to convince me of why it is important, why I should care about it in this particular context. People usually fail at this. But even if the plot hole is not purely subjective AND I see it's relevance, it will likely not ruin the show for me if I otherwise love it. The 'plot' in 'plot hole' indicates that it is an issue related to the plot, and that is usually among the least important factors for me in most shows (which also plays into why I often don't see plot holes as very relevant criticism when to me the show is all about the characters, dialogue, atmosphere etc....). Hence even if the plot were riddled with holes, unless it's one of the rare shows where the plot is the only or main reason why I'm invested in the show, it won't do a whole lot of damage to my enjoyment. It might solicit a sigh from me here and there, in honor of the lost potential of how it could have been done right, but I very rarely dwell on plot holes unless I'm already not very invested in a show. As I said earlier, obsessing about alleged plot holes is usually an activity for when a show doesn't capture your full attention and you start looking for reasons why you don't like the show. Overall, as you may notice, I don't think very highly of 'plot holes' as a criticism. They're almost always more subjective and based on interpretation than the people complaining about them are willing to admit and because of that they feel more like a rhetorical tool that haters or self-obsessed criticis use to shit on something in a pseudo-objective way. To most people the term 'plot hole' sounds more objective than other kinds of criticisms and critics and haters like to borrow that false sense of objectivity to camouflage their opinions with it. But I always find it very transparent when the term is just used to objectify completely subjective, negative-focused interpretations. Unfortunately that is the case for the majority of cases where the term is used, at least in my experience on MAL. I completely agree with this, especially on how most so called plotholes have very simple explainations. If you didn't like the show enough to pay close attention to the logic behind certain plot points that's fine but nitpicking details just because you want an objective reason not to like something other then that it didn't engage your interest enough is a little petty. Aside from honestly not paying attention or not being able to keep up, I also think that often people 'make up' plotholes by pretending to be stupider than they are. Mainly not being willing to see anything as 'implied' and only accepting things that have been clearly spelled out and/or shown as explanations for things. But in reality fiction always relies in the viewer to do his part, to fill in some of the gaps in the narrative by using common sense and interpretation. Just because we didn't see something happen, doesn't make it a plothole. When a narrative presents you with some new facts, the first thing you should ask yourself is 'okay, what has to have happened off screen to make that situation happen?', and not immediately calling it a plothole. In the small scale everyone does it all the time when watching anime or fiction. There is never time to show everything. Scenes might show a character walking to a house and then cut to that character being inside the house. We never got to see him open the door and enter the building, and as far as we know he does not have the ability to teleport so is this a plothole? What happened during the cut? Nobody asks these questions because it's obviously implied that he walked the rest of the way and opened the door before entering even if it wasn't explicitly shown. But if you make the scenes more complex and omit longer and more important parts, the same principle still applies. It should always first be assumed that whatever happened off screen makes whatever happens on screen make sense. If you can't make sense of it, maybe you just lack imagination or the intelligence to make sense of it? Not every show is equally easy to keep up with. But I find it very annoying when people always and immediately blame the show for having 'plotholes' whenever their tiny little brains fail to make sense of something because it wasn't explicitly shown or explained in great detail. Consuming fiction isn't just a passive activity where you only soak in what happens on screen, it also requires you to think yourself, fill in the gaps, catch onto implied information or come up with interpretations that make sense of what you see. So to me the 'plot hole' criticism is more often than not a simple sign of laziness, of the unwillingness or unability to apply your own brain to the show. Either because there is nothing to apply in the first place, or because they want to shit on the show and know that pretending that a show only consists of what is actively shown and spelled out is an extremely easy way to 'find' (make up) criticisms. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
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