| God no. In the first episode you need to introduce the characters, their relationship, an overarching plot for the series, and a plot for the episode as well. It's extremely hard to do all of that while being interesting or gripping. Thinking of all the pilots, maybe 8% of shows start well. Plenty of my favorite shows have a rough first episode. Get this Digibro shit out of here. |
cookies0 said: Zoltor said: Wow really, that's really what you think? Then you must really hate anime with a lot of backstory/ a prelude, as well as any anime that has a slower pace to such ingeneral. Oh, the classic "u must h8 animu!!". No, I don't hate it, and you know that as well. You are just intentionally misrepresenting my point to make it easier to attack. I know I did the same. Now you should know how annoying it is. Let me clarify it, if I hate the first few episodes of an anime, then chances are that I'm also going to hate the rest of it. It's the same as if someone who dislikes ecchi starts watching an anime, and the first episodes are filled with sexual fanservice. He will obviously dislike it, and the chances are that the show won't be enjoyable to him even if he continues to suffer through 20+ episodes of it. " It's the same as if someone who dislikes ecchi starts watching an anime, and the first episodes are filled with sexual fanservice." You're whole line of thought, just outright assumes nomatter the size of the anime, how the 1st ep or so is handled, is how the whole anime is to be handled/close enough that such doesn't matter. I'm sorry, but that's not the case. you are outright ignoring the likelihood(and It's a very high likelihood at that), that a series, a literary work, and artistic work, can't change throughout the creation process. That's very different from a first ep being bad or not living upto the standards someone wants, It's not the same thing as a anime having a genre you don't like. We're not talking about genres, and how info sites have a tendency to mislabel stuff, that's an entirely different topic of discussion altogether. |
| . |
cookies0 said: Zoltor said: " It's the same as if someone who dislikes ecchi starts watching an anime, and the first episodes are filled with sexual fanservice." You're whole line of thought, just outright assumes nomatter the size of the anime, how the 1st ep or so is handled, is how the whole anime is to be handled/close enough that such doesn't matter. I'm sorry, but that's not the case. you are outright ignoring the likelihood(and It's a very high likelihood at that), that a series, a literary work, and artistic work, can't change throughout the creation process. That's very different from a first ep being bad or not living upto the standards someone wants, It's not the same thing as a anime having a genre you don't like. We're not talking about genres, and how info sites have a tendency to mislabel stuff, that's an entirely different topic of discussion altogether. I'm just going to conclude that I was talking to a brick wall. Look child, you can not compare the quality of a first episode, to a first ep showing it being part of a "genre" you don't like. They're two very different things, one has nothing inherently to do with the rest of a series, while the other dictates the kind of contents that will be in the series as a whole. They're not the same thing. |
| . |
| Not really, a lot of first episodes are great, when the show itself is really shit. |
 |
| Lucky Star had a pretty terrible first episode, but the rest of the show is great. |
 "The sun is my enemy, but the moon has been good to me." |
CapitalistGod said: A show that needs building up or relies on tonal shifts are just exceptions to the rule and from the first episode alone, more often than not... you'll have a rough idea of what you'll get from a show. This also applies both for critical viewers and those who watch purely for enjoyment. Well, do you agree? or disagree? Also, I say this having over 30% of my dropped list being dropped in or after the 1st episode. Haha! You can usually figure out the tropes of a show, the general feel of it's atmosphere and whether or not you like that kind of thing. ONI-CHAAAN I LOVE YOU |
| ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴロゴロゴロ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ ゴゴゴゴゴゴ |
| I'd say that 3 episode rule is more effective at least for me. I found Ajin first episode horrible and almost dropped it. Decided to give it a chance till episode 3 and loved it. But got to admit I've dropped a few anime on episode 1, however, I don't do that anymore. |
Futari wa Milky Holmes was a mistake Yoshii did nothing wrong |
romagia said: Zoltor said: u sure about that? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)Yes, lets not forget The Twelve Kingdoms, which the 1st ep is more or less just the main female char crying or whatnot(it all makes sense for the context of how everything is going down, but neverless this is literally the last thing people want to see in a anime) i dont have a lenny face big enough for this Here you go,you can take mine (͡ ͡° ͜ つ ͡͡°) |
| Well duh. If a show doesn't build upon itself thematically or change its tone in anyway, then it's a good indicator that the first episode represents the general moods of the rest of the show (take from that what you will). The only way it wouldn't be a good indicator is if the show changed in some way. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
| Has OP seen A/Z and Iron Fortress? LUL |
| It is so dense. Every single image has so many things going on. |
| I don't see why people have strict rules for these kinds of things, I merely drop shows based on how much they test my patience. |
WhatYouWanted said: I don't see why people have strict rules for these kinds of things, I merely drop shows based on how much they test my patience. Yikes, you really should come up with some kind of rules. I really hope you're understating your analyzing/testing process, because if not, I'm scared to ask how many crappy anime you end up watching a lot of, before figuring out, that It's a really crappy anime. |
| . |
Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: I don't see why people have strict rules for these kinds of things, I merely drop shows based on how much they test my patience. Yikes, you really should come up with some kind of rules. I really hope you're understating your analyzing/testing process, because if not, I'm scared to ask how many crappy anime you end up watching a lot of, before figuring out, that It's a really crappy anime. I'm not saying I have no analyzing process in dropping things, usually it's how many times the show annoys me in some way before I feel it's no longer worth continuing, which usually happens within the first episode or so. I just don't see why people have these strict 3 episode rules, and the like, it seem arbitrary to me. |
WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: Yikes, you really should come up with some kind of rules. I really hope you're understating your analyzing/testing process, because if not, I'm scared to ask how many crappy anime you end up watching a lot of, before figuring out, that It's a really crappy anime. I'm not saying I have no analyzing process in dropping things, usually it's how many times the show annoys me in some way before I feel it's no longer worth continuing, which usually happens within the first episode or so. I just don't see why people have these strict 3 episode rules, and the like, it seem arbitrary to me. Oh ok. Well the 3-4 rule, is a min amount that should be seen before making a decision, as the 1st episode usually has no baring on the rest of a series(unless It's like a comedy or straight up romcom, as they pretty much always stay consistent throughout the series, and they're not about story telling), doesn't mean such a rule limits you to such, you can definitely watch more if you feel a specific anime needs more time. This rule exists for a reason, It's to avoid dropping/writing off a potentially great anime, due to jumping to conclusions. The fact is most anime/stories in general change quite a bit after the "opening act", so to say(and that's just most anime, that doesn't even count special case anime, that either start off with a prelude or involves a lot of world/character building). |
| . |
| Yes, I agree. Some shows surprise. Paranoia Agent starts off great, but it needs time to develop its symbols. Medabots does a lot of fun SOL before reaching its climax. Many shows, even brilliant ones using tonal shifts - Shinsekai Yori, Digimon Tamers - already hint at this in their first episodes. A storyteller that can tell a good story in 100 episodes can also do so in 10. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: I'm not saying I have no analyzing process in dropping things, usually it's how many times the show annoys me in some way before I feel it's no longer worth continuing, which usually happens within the first episode or so. I just don't see why people have these strict 3 episode rules, and the like, it seem arbitrary to me. Oh ok. Well the 3-4 rule, is a min amount that should be seen before making a decision, as the 1st episode usually has no baring on the rest of a series(unless It's like a comedy or straight up romcom, as they pretty much always stay consistent throughout the series, and they're not about story telling), doesn't mean such a rule limits you to such, you can definitely watch more if you feel a specific anime needs more time. This rule exists for a reason, It's to avoid dropping/writing off a potentially great anime, due to jumping to conclusions. The fact is most anime/stories in general change quite a bit after the "opening act", so to say(and that's just most anime, that doesn't even count special case anime, that either start off with a prelude or involves a lot of world/character building). I guess I'm just more fickle than others, I'd rather watch a show that manages to pique my interests quickly, one that shows signs of getting better soon, or at the very least one that doesn't instantly irritate me. Also I don't think I miss out on much by dropping things as I wish to, I've never totally written off a show, and I'm open to going back to one for whatever reason. Length is also something to consider, if a 12 episode show takes 1/4 of its total running time to get going, that really questions whether it's worth it. |
| Nah dude, its the fanservice that determines how "great" a series will be... The OPPAI dude.. OPPAI! |
| No. Half the time the animators pull out all the stops at the first episode and start the animation shortcuts in the 2nd ep. Plus the person directing the first ep may not be directing all the eps as well. The first episode, however, gives an good indicator of whether you want to immediately vest time in a series or not. You always have the option to continue or catch up once the reviews and opinions come in. I mean, geez, it's the era of the internet. There's only so much you can watch online, not just anime. |
| I don't know most of the time the 1st episode is meh. I guess it can give you a general sense about the show like what its about or what ever thats it. To be honest 80% of the time watching the 1st episode is like watching the synopsis. Theirs quite a few anime the start great and gradually get worse and vice-versa. |
| Sometimes no matter how episodes I give it a go, i just cant give a fuck about it in the end. |
WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: Oh ok. Well the 3-4 rule, is a min amount that should be seen before making a decision, as the 1st episode usually has no baring on the rest of a series(unless It's like a comedy or straight up romcom, as they pretty much always stay consistent throughout the series, and they're not about story telling), doesn't mean such a rule limits you to such, you can definitely watch more if you feel a specific anime needs more time. This rule exists for a reason, It's to avoid dropping/writing off a potentially great anime, due to jumping to conclusions. The fact is most anime/stories in general change quite a bit after the "opening act", so to say(and that's just most anime, that doesn't even count special case anime, that either start off with a prelude or involves a lot of world/character building). I guess I'm just more fickle than others, I'd rather watch a show that manages to pique my interests quickly, one that shows signs of getting better soon, or at the very least one that doesn't instantly irritate me. Also I don't think I miss out on much by dropping things as I wish to, I've never totally written off a show, and I'm open to going back to one for whatever reason. Length is also something to consider, if a 12 episode show takes 1/4 of its total running time to get going, that really questions whether it's worth it. This dude says true things. A series may need time to achieve its greatness, but it must be good on the first episodes. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
WhatYouWanted said: Zoltor said: Oh ok. Well the 3-4 rule, is a min amount that should be seen before making a decision, as the 1st episode usually has no baring on the rest of a series(unless It's like a comedy or straight up romcom, as they pretty much always stay consistent throughout the series, and they're not about story telling), doesn't mean such a rule limits you to such, you can definitely watch more if you feel a specific anime needs more time. This rule exists for a reason, It's to avoid dropping/writing off a potentially great anime, due to jumping to conclusions. The fact is most anime/stories in general change quite a bit after the "opening act", so to say(and that's just most anime, that doesn't even count special case anime, that either start off with a prelude or involves a lot of world/character building). I guess I'm just more fickle than others, I'd rather watch a show that manages to pique my interests quickly, one that shows signs of getting better soon, or at the very least one that doesn't instantly irritate me. Also I don't think I miss out on much by dropping things as I wish to, I've never totally written off a show, and I'm open to going back to one for whatever reason. Length is also something to consider, if a 12 episode show takes 1/4 of its total running time to get going, that really questions whether it's worth it. Yea naturally a 12-13 episode show, would require the suspension of such a rule, not to mention usual standard requirements ingenal(such is only for a quick fix, and you can only hope for so much from such anyway). @TheBrainintheJar My condolences then, because very few even high end anime, have anything better then just a meh/ok 1st ep. |
ZoltorSep 27, 2016 12:05 AM
| . |
| well....one episode isnt rlly enough...need to watch more to see whether its a good indication or not...like 2-3 episodes would do |
 |
| Not really, but past 3 episodes it's getting long... Steins gate is the exception that proves the rule. |
15poundfish said: jal90 said: This h], mentioned a few times in this thread, and I'm going to doubt it, at least from my experience. A pilot episode that qualifies as one of the best has been more of an exception than a rule so far to me. Can you name shows with bad introduction episodes and end up being masterpieces at the end? I have not seen a great anime that had an absolutely awful introduction episode and end up being better after 4 episodes. The 4 episode rule only works if the first episode is average or slightly above average. I didn't say «absolutely awful», just «not one of the best». And under this label Gintama, One Piece, Azumanga Daioh, Cowboy Bebop, Princess Tutu, The tatami galaxy, Welcome to the NHK, Akage no Anne, etc. among my 10s and off the top of my head. The only clear ones I can mention for the contrary are Mushishi and Usagi Drop. |
| I believe I learned back in school that in entertainment, the first episode/chapter should always be "attention grabbing" if you want it to be successful. But this isn't always true with anime. Some anime, like Saikano followed the "first impressions" rule. Others, took a few episodes to try and become interesting. |
 |
| It's impossible to recognize a masterpiece by its first episode, but generic trash is usually recognizable within 5 minutes. I use the first episode to filter out stuff I have absolutely no interest in, the rest gets another chance. But this usually only applies to seasonal shows, I'm a bit more lenient on stuff I specifically downloaded. |
 |
| I won't drop anime in first eps except [harem ecchi magic academy school anime] I will use 3 eps rules for 1-cour anime but for 2-cours or more, I will watch till 7-8 eps to decide watching it on or drop it |
 |
| Quality no, not really, but potential, definitely yes. I can usually easily figure out whether or not I want to continue watching it after the first episode or drop it and find something else. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| No such a dumb rule won't work. Every anime is different. For example anime like Code Geass and Boku Dachi build up from the first episode, but for anime like Puella Magica you need at least 4 episodes. Also, anime have a different building up speed depending on the number of episodes... a 24 episode anime will be much slower compared with a 13 episodes one. You may make an ideea regarding the basic direction the anime goes on, but even so there are simply too manyvariables to take in consideration... for example the story can follow a direction in the first and maybe second episode, then BANG! TWIST! and chages in totality in the second. |
 |
| Not really, Gintama is a great exemple, the first 2 episodes were fillers... I'd say give a 12 episodes anime at least 2 episodes, a 24 at least 3-4 episodes Long running anime at least 5-20 episodes, depending on how much you can stand. One Piece for exemple gets better and better ( At least the manga ) so dropping it early is kinda sad. |
 Profile Picture and Avatar/Signature made by SenpieX, requested in this thread :https://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=1568530&show=0 |
| Depends what you're looking for in a show. If you're a plot guy then obviously not. But I'm not a plot guy, so I think so. A show doesn't need gripping plot twists or any of that in the first episode or at all to keep me interested. Good characters are usually good from the beginning, dialogue, art style, the OST, foreshadowing, all this stuff can be done early in and all my favorite shows were ones I loved immediately, and every show I've given an 6 or better had something worthwhile in the beginning. It can get better or worse for a number of reasons, but directing and writing usually don't drastically change. Gintama might be an exception but I've never seen it so I can't say. I don't consider HunterxHunter or FMA exceptions, both gave indications of how they were going to use shonen tropes in the first episode in a way that interested me. |
 |
Zoltor said: WhatYouWanted said: I guess I'm just more fickle than others, I'd rather watch a show that manages to pique my interests quickly, one that shows signs of getting better soon, or at the very least one that doesn't instantly irritate me. Also I don't think I miss out on much by dropping things as I wish to, I've never totally written off a show, and I'm open to going back to one for whatever reason. Length is also something to consider, if a 12 episode show takes 1/4 of its total running time to get going, that really questions whether it's worth it. Yea naturally a 12-13 episode show, would require the suspension of such a rule, not to mention usual standard requirements ingenal(such is only for a quick fix, and you can only hope for so much from such anyway). @TheBrainintheJar My condolences then, because very few even high end anime, have anything better then just a meh/ok 1st ep. Digimon Tamers, Medabots, Denou Coil, Shinsekai Yori, Tatami Galaxy all had attention-grabbing and great openers. If a storyteller is good, they can tell a good story in 20 minutes. |
| WEAPONS - My blog, for reviews of music, anime, books, and other things |
TheBrainintheJar said: Zoltor said: Yea naturally a 12-13 episode show, would require the suspension of such a rule, not to mention usual standard requirements ingenal(such is only for a quick fix, and you can only hope for so much from such anyway). @TheBrainintheJar My condolences then, because very few even high end anime, have anything better then just a meh/ok 1st ep. Digimon Tamers, Medabots, Denou Coil, Shinsekai Yori, Tatami Galaxy all had attention-grabbing and great openers. If a storyteller is good, they can tell a good story in 20 minutes. That's not true, there's a reasons movies are rated on a completely different scale, then series are. Also I love how all you people who seem to think a 1st ep is = to a entire anime series, seem to also gloss over the fact, that even when a 1st ep is great, it sure as hell Isn't a indication the rest of the series is or is even the direction the story will take. Remember anime like Sengoku Basara, what a great 1st ep, shame basically the entire rest of the series sucked. Oh yea, lets not forget the shitstorm that is SAO. Hell even when a series doesn't go to shit, the first ep has little to nothing to do with a anime most of the time. Take Moribito Guardian of the Spirit for instance, the 1st episode is epic, and implies It's going to be a epic wuxia series, but that's not how the series plays out at all, it instead plays out as a pure sol, very little drama, no tragedy to speak of, and next to no action... The 1st ep Isn't very representative of the anime 1 bit, and if someone didn't like very deliberately paced sol anime, they would hate it, even though they loved the 1st ep. In cased where there Isn't a prelude, studios love to attempt to turn a 1st ep into a glorified trailer, and most of the time, that's all the 1st ep is. Do you buy video games just based off stupid CG trailers? I certainly hope not. There's so many different types of story telling, that even negates a fist episode mattering at all(and at very least, not by its own anyway), you first ep people just outright ignore all the nuances, and changes of a story. Here's another example, Spice and Wolf has a very average 1st ep, nothing special here, and I assure you the last thing people would expect, is a extremely intelligent sol, that goes into old world trading, in such super high detail. This is a prime example of a anime being way better then the 1st ep too. ect, ect, ect, ect. Now back to rewatching Victorian Romance Emma, a anime that while has a pretty good 1st ep for a sol anime ingeneral, sure as hell doesn't indicate that the series would end up being this great. Good thing I don't judge a anime on just the 1st ep :) |
| . |
| I disagree, some shows tend to be average or bad at first episode but when you relate to it it can become very good and sometimes masterpiece (like NGE) |
| How about watching the whole show so, you get an actual overall impression? |
| I've gotten pumped by too many great first episodes to series that don't deliver. I actually love Steins Gates first episode. A show can gain or lose momentum at any point so I don't believe in the one episode thing. |
 Click the banner for anime lists, discussions, reviews, and let's plays! |
| I mostly agree, but I find that shows tend to get worse, usually the best part of mediocre shows is the first episode. So when I see a show with a shit first episode I assume it's going to be absolutely terrible, which I think is fair. The only (sort of) exception I've seen is with Hunter x Hunter, I thought the first episode was slightly below average but I didn't hate it and now it's one of my favorite anime. Also I don't see the point in the three episode rule because what people tend to say when they are arguing for it is how you won't be able to tell how good it is with just one episode, but couldn't that be said for three episodes too? What if the first three episodes are bad and it gets good in the fourth episode? |
FlamingMangos said: How about watching the whole show so, you get an actual overall impression? Most people can't be bothered watching a whole show that's most likely gonna be bad |
| Not really, I think the most accurate rule would be the 3 episode rule, but, even then, there's been a lot of series lately that start good and fall to shit halfway. So, maybe it's changing to the halfway point. |
| So due the fact that it looks like a full blown debate. I am going to do what everyone else that is just dropping by is doing. Give my two cents and leave. Joking aside if you don't believe in the simple rule of "If you don't like it, drop it" than you my sir are a masochist. I have dropped shows within the first 5 minutes that I didn't care enough to put on mal, *cough* Highschool DxD *cough* I don't care if it either gets better or I am watching it for the wrong reasons. Again If I don't like it I drop it. |
 ♪All his life has been, a roller coaster ride of dream No time for looking back, forgetting who or what His song is all that he leaves behind, On silent nights I hear him still, whistling a tune I know so well Gun in hand, rose in another, He's Lupin the 3rd♪ |
CapitalistGod said: Well, do you agree? or disagree? The answer is no. Disagreeing would imply that I think you at least have some sort of point. You don't. Good day, sir. |
 |
FlamingMangos said: How about watching the whole show so, you get an actual overall impression? Is there even an incentive to do that? Unless, you're into masochism then....yeah. BatoKusanagi said: CapitalistGod said: Well, do you agree? or disagree? The answer is no. Disagreeing would imply that I think you at least have some sort of point. You don't. Good day, sir. Why, good day to you, sir. I'm not the one at fault for your lack of comprehension then. |
| I tend to agree, although some anime need time to get really started. Then there are also anime that have a good first episode, but rapidly decline after that point. This is why I often want to give an anime at least 3-5 episodes before deciding. |
BatoKusanagi said: "The first episode is a good indicator of the overall quality of a show."???? Absolutely preposterous i say good sir. No man in the faculty of their minds could ever cum up with such a thing. There is indeed no point here, only trash. And others should know it instead of writing 4 pages of non-stop fun.CapitalistGod said: Well, do you agree? or disagree? The answer is no. Disagreeing would imply that I think you at least have some sort of point. You don't. Good day, sir. |
 |
More topics from this board
» Who is your Favorite Waifu in Pokémon?Jackof-allspades - 6 hours ago |
28 |
by Anjuro
»»
1 minute ago |
|
» Can you suggest some anime that would be great to watch with a girl-friendGashadokur0 - 2 hours ago |
18 |
by zaako
»»
4 minutes ago |
|
Poll: » Will Wit Studio be more successful in money for the next 5 years?GoatPieceLuffy - 2 hours ago |
5 |
by APolygons2
»»
7 minutes ago |
|
» What is your "Unlikeliest" AnimeRatris_Decision - 57 minutes ago |
5 |
by Zettaiken
»»
18 minutes ago |
|
» How would your girl handle it?SgtBateMan - 39 minutes ago |
2 |
by Anjuro
»»
19 minutes ago |