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Am I the only one who dislikes ecchi scenes because I want to watch a serious show?

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Jan 8, 3:30 AM
#1

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Some time ago i watched the first episode of Date a Live mostly because i liked tsunako's character design on the Hyperdimension Neptunia games, and everything seemed ok until the red haired girl started jumping on the MC's bed while flashing her panties on purpose, and after watching the 1st ep it kind of killed my interest for the show and now i'm thinking that DAL, despite not being tagged as an ecchi on MAL, it still going to have some ecchi on the rest of episodes


I don't like sudden ecchi scenes on anime not because they may seem sexist or something (i'm female and straight) but because it kills the seriousness in the anime, i can bear with few occasional comedic moments in anime but the sudden ecchi is an overkill to me


if anyone's asking, i don't hate ecchi, in fact, Ebichu is the funniest anime i ever watched so far and it's an ecchi anime, and it works because is not supposed to be a serious anime at all
I know your PTW list is bigger than your completed list.
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Jan 8, 3:34 AM
#2

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I don't usually complain about ecchi scenes, but some scenes in Mieruko-chan felt a little awkward and unnecessary.
Jan 8, 3:39 AM
#3

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nah, I mean the overbundance of scenes like that in anime is the reason anime gets a bad rap, so it's a majority opinion if anything, in places other than here

thankfully there will always be plenty of anime with enough integrity to keep this kind of stuff out of serious stories
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Jan 8, 3:49 AM
#4
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Wait, wait, wait, you're taking Date a Live seriously as a show??
A trashy light novel series about a guy dating multiple women and his sister to seal their spiritual powers by kissing them and you thought there WEREN'T going to be ecchi scenes??

When you said a serious show I thought you meant shows like 86, Anohana or Frieren, not Date a Live! XD
i-like-thisJan 10, 3:05 AM
Jan 8, 3:55 AM
#5

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Depend on the anime. If it's a really bad anime with barely anything good about, then a ecchi scene would maybe be the only saving grace about it.
Jan 8, 4:01 AM
#6
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No, you're certainly not the only one who hates ecchi/fanservice in shows that are otherwise not in the least bit expected to have anything lewd in them. It's just a sterotypical trope you'll find in almost any anime regardless of whether it's a serious show or not.
Like I can't tell you how many non-ecchi shows I've seen that have had random moments of fanservice in them. Be it a brief panty shot, a boob jiggle or ogle, a character walking in on someone changing, a suggestive angle showing a characters assets or a scene of a character bathing. You're bound to find at least one of these tropes in just about any anime that isn't specifically aimed towards children.
Now I like my ecchi/fanservice in anime but I do admit that a random scene that only exists for the sake of fanservice does cause me to either groan or roll my eyes; because it's just not neccessary.

"πšƒπš’πš–πšŽ 𝚝𝚘 πš–πš’πš‘ πšπš›πš’πš—πš”πšœ πšŠπš—πš πšŒπš‘πšŠπš—πšπšŽ πš•πš’πšŸπšŽπšœ."
β˜† π™°πš—πš’πš–πšŽ π™»πš’πšœπš β˜†
β˜† πš…π™½π™³πš‹ β˜†
β˜† π™±πšŠπšŒπš”πš•πš˜πšπšπšŽπš›πš’ β˜†
Jan 8, 4:12 AM
#7

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I thought you were talking about thrillers or action, but you were talking about an ecchi show. So it will have ecchi scenes.

Jan 8, 4:14 AM
#8

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KitsuFrost said:
I thought you were talking about thrillers or action, but you were talking about an ecchi show. So it will have ecchi scenes.

I said that MAL didn't even tag it as an ecchi at all
I know your PTW list is bigger than your completed list.
Jan 8, 4:19 AM
#9
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Reply to Eternal-Destiny
KitsuFrost said:
I thought you were talking about thrillers or action, but you were talking about an ecchi show. So it will have ecchi scenes.

I said that MAL didn't even tag it as an ecchi at all
@Eternal-Destiny not tagged Ecchi sure but got AT-X in the producers and it's a channel that air uncensored series. It's a payable channel like HBO.
Jan 8, 4:21 AM

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A show not having the ecchi tag on MAL doesn't mean anything, it can still have plenty of ecchi scenes.
If you want to find serious romance shows without ecchi scenes then avoid the following tags:
  • Comedy
  • Harem
  • Shounen/Seinen
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Jan 8, 4:23 AM

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Reply to CrazedRabbit
nah, I mean the overbundance of scenes like that in anime is the reason anime gets a bad rap, so it's a majority opinion if anything, in places other than here

thankfully there will always be plenty of anime with enough integrity to keep this kind of stuff out of serious stories
@CrazedRabbit yeah we dont care about the shity opinion of stupid tourists or twitter (x).
Jan 8, 4:29 AM

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Personally I hate ecchi with a passion but everyone has their own preferences, so. It just feels like it detracts from a shows seriousness to me. (Although Date a Live looks like an ecchi show anyway so you can't complain if that's what you are watching.)
orangc
Jan 8, 4:39 AM

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You obviously aren't the only one. Feels like there are about four threads a day expressing a dislike of fanservice, ecchi or other erotic aspects of anime. But I'm actually of the opposite opinion. I think the effectiveness and impact of ecchi is actually amplified in "serious shows", where it's comparative rarity almost makes it a valuable commodity. Ergo Proxy is an ostensibly serious show, for example, but there were a few exercise scenes with Re-L that were both sexy and organic, simply due to how and why they were concocted.

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Jan 8, 4:40 AM

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Reply to orangc
Personally I hate ecchi with a passion but everyone has their own preferences, so. It just feels like it detracts from a shows seriousness to me. (Although Date a Live looks like an ecchi show anyway so you can't complain if that's what you are watching.)
@orangeautumnleaf One of my all time faves is Lyrical Nanoha (the first 3 seasons mostly) and in its first season had blink-or-miss fanservice and I could bear that (and I'm talking about an anime whose main character originated from an eroge).
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Jan 8, 4:44 AM

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@MyPreciousWaifu you were the one who spammed zoophilic Orihime rule 34 in another tread some time ago? What's wrong with you man.
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Jan 8, 4:53 AM

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You're not the only one, but opinions like this haven't really been taken seriously by most anime fans as they associate it with "tourism"; which is ironic, because I think that if a big part of why you enjoy a medium is that it functions as fap fuel then that's even more degrading to community and even medium itself. Anime at its best does much more than appeal to the sexual lowest common denominator.

Anyways, I totally agree that a decent amount of anime is made substantially worse through unjustified libido-exploiting content. That's not to deny that sexuality has always been a part of the medium, but the focus it has gotten is clearly less "artistic dignity" and more "AAARGH IM FUCKING COOMING". It's tiring to watch a cool show and out of nowhere there's borderline softcore porn for literally no good reason. It's lazy and distasteful. It's particularly disappointing in older OVAs as those generally are very unique and artistic, but they are more prone to have that kind of stuff than a contemporary interesting anime.
Jan 8, 4:58 AM

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TibetanJazz666 said:
You're not the only one, but opinions like this haven't really been taken seriously by most anime fans as they associate it with "tourism"; which is ironic, because I think that if a big part of why you enjoy a medium is that it functions as fap fuel then that's even more degrading to community and even medium itself. Anime at its best does much more than appeal to the sexual lowest common denominator.

Anyways, I totally agree that a decent amount of anime is made substantially worse through unjustified libido-exploiting content. That's not to deny that sexuality has always been a part of the medium, but the focus it has gotten is clearly less "artistic dignity" and more "AAARGH IM FUCKING COOMING". It's tiring to watch a cool show and out of nowhere there's borderline softcore porn for literally no good reason. It's lazy and distasteful. It's particularly disappointing in older OVAs as those generally are very unique and artistic, but they are more prone to have that kind of stuff than a contemporary interesting anime.

I watched wicked city and it's sexual content had more of a serious context to it, whereas in your modern day anime the sudden ecchi is also used as a comedic moment out of nowhere, if id like to watch something with ecchi with it I would prefer that it was completely comedic (just like in ebichu)
I know your PTW list is bigger than your completed list.
Jan 8, 5:05 AM

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"girl started jumping on the MC's bed while flashing her panties"
Yeah, that was my fastest drop lol. Literally a few seconds in and that was enough to me.
Well, if you want to watch a serious show, you just watch a serious show, not a retarded one.
No idea why they refuse to add ecchi tag to Monogatari series Date a Live, as well as some other blatant ecchi shows, when it's literally the main focus of the show.
Nemo_NiemandJan 8, 5:09 AM

Jan 8, 5:06 AM

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Nemo_Niemand said:
"girl started jumping on the MC's bed while flashing her panties"
Yeah, that was my fastest drop lol. Literally a few seconds in and that was enough to me.
Well, if you want to watch a serious show, you watch a serious show, not retarded one.

To be fair, I watched it mostly because of tsunako's character design
I know your PTW list is bigger than your completed list.
Jan 8, 6:38 AM

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I mean, if you're a fan of Tsunako's stuff, then it shouldn't be a surprise the designs she did stuff for have ecchi elements. Considering she did Neptunia and all.
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Jan 8, 6:38 AM

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There is nothing more serious than an ecchi moment.
If you enjoyed the time you wasted, then its not a waste of time.

Jan 8, 6:39 AM

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why so serious? anime is entertainment first heck even evangelion with all it serious story has ecchi
Jan 8, 6:40 AM

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Tropisch said:
I mean, if you're a fan of Tsunako's stuff, then it shouldn't be a surprise the designs she did stuff for have ecchi elements. Considering she did Neptunia and all.

I like tsunako's art because of the fashion design, the same reason I ended up watching lyrical Nanoha as well
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Jan 8, 6:41 AM

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deg said:
why so serious? anime is entertainment first heck even evangelion with all it serious story has ecchi

In Eva's case the only non serious ecchi moment I can think of was on the asuka's debut episode, everything else was ok
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Jan 8, 7:59 AM

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There is different reasons for these things

  • Comedy like a character being in embarrassing moment or some guy running around naked are common ones
  • Sex appeal of course
  • Characterization like showing a character is sexual or shy
  • Cuteness or moe appeal often involving blushing or bloomers
  • Incidental nudity or less dressed fitting for the scene like bathing or and onsen
  • Sometimes it is to look artsy with camera angles to keep a simple scene more visually interesting
  • Proper physics instead of skirts glued to legs
  • Exposure to show a character is emotionally or physically vulnerable such as too sad to cover up or just exposed thus less protected


One needs to keep in mind the Japanese have a different culture so they view things a bit differently so it isnt always easy to spot the intent.

For me it only gets annoying if say middle of a fight you get some ass shot taking up the whole screen or other unsexy attempts at sex appeal.

And to people who used the word fanservice. It isnt always fanservice and fanservice isnt always sexual. An example of non sexual fanservice would be Lain's bear kigurumi, that was added for moe fanservice.

What actually degrades up serious series for me far more is odd timing and overuse of chibi and kaogei (face performance) comedy and often bad comedy at that. Unlike sexual stuff it often interrupts a whole scene's vibe entirely. Classic example is the Hellsing TV series (not the OVA) and some recent examples ive seen is Ragna Crimson and Hametsu no Oukoko. Not that i dislike this all the time just depends the scene usage and timing.

Serafos said:
I don't usually complain about ecchi scenes, but some scenes in Mieruko-chan felt a little awkward and unnecessary.

I thought most of it was fitting but some yes. I have to check the manga some time.
traedJan 8, 8:13 AM
Jan 8, 8:40 AM

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Pfft, you don't take Date a Live serious that's your first mistake. :p
Jan 8, 9:44 AM

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it's MAL's fault for not tagging DAL correctly
Jan 8, 12:53 PM

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I agree with your sentiment 100%. A lot of the times these scenes are handled extremely poorly and don't add much or have any substance. Pre-transition I kinda ignored that a lot, but once I came out as trans I started to notice the flaws with how a lot of these sexually explicit scenes are handled. Most of these scenes don't really add anything and just exist for titillation, oftentimes at the expense of the plot, tone, characterization, and agency of the female cast members. A big problem I have with a lot of anime aimed at guys is also that a lot of these ecchi scenes generally rely on "hahaha sexual assault and harassment funny" as a punchline which is uhhhh really bad and kinda feels a bit dehumanizing ngl. I prefer sexual stuff to be consensual if it's implemented unless absolutely necessary to cover the topic of sexual assault and harassment. Like when I watch MHA for example, ever scene with that fucking piece of shit Mineta makes me angry to watch cuz he's just perving on all these women and he's training to be a hero. This guy is acting more like a future rapist, not a fucking hero. I notice a lot of series written by women or for women tend to handle sexual content a lot more tastefully in a way that doesn't detract like a lot of stuff written by guys or for guys tend for. There are excpetions on both ends of course but that is just my obeservation
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Jan 8, 1:00 PM

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But why does the show have to be serious, especially if it's a pretty entertaining and light-hearted title to begin with?
Jan 8, 1:15 PM

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Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
I agree with your sentiment 100%. A lot of the times these scenes are handled extremely poorly and don't add much or have any substance. Pre-transition I kinda ignored that a lot, but once I came out as trans I started to notice the flaws with how a lot of these sexually explicit scenes are handled. Most of these scenes don't really add anything and just exist for titillation, oftentimes at the expense of the plot, tone, characterization, and agency of the female cast members. A big problem I have with a lot of anime aimed at guys is also that a lot of these ecchi scenes generally rely on "hahaha sexual assault and harassment funny" as a punchline which is uhhhh really bad and kinda feels a bit dehumanizing ngl. I prefer sexual stuff to be consensual if it's implemented unless absolutely necessary to cover the topic of sexual assault and harassment. Like when I watch MHA for example, ever scene with that fucking piece of shit Mineta makes me angry to watch cuz he's just perving on all these women and he's training to be a hero. This guy is acting more like a future rapist, not a fucking hero. I notice a lot of series written by women or for women tend to handle sexual content a lot more tastefully in a way that doesn't detract like a lot of stuff written by guys or for guys tend for. There are excpetions on both ends of course but that is just my obeservation
@LSSJ_Gaming you're not suppose to like mineta hes a creep and everyone treats him like a creep. we get to see him get his just deserts.

Mina literally clock work oranges his ass and he's not acted like a creep since then.


@Eternal-Destiny

DAL is another mishandled series by JC staff. they have a long history of mishandling series. (the biggest example being Toaru series.) which is why i largely do not trust them as a studio. I've rarely seen good work come out of them and it's usually done by the same director.


this is why i always encourage reading the source material with a lot of anime.
GrimAtramentJan 8, 1:21 PM
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Jan 8, 2:16 PM

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Reply to GrimAtrament
@LSSJ_Gaming you're not suppose to like mineta hes a creep and everyone treats him like a creep. we get to see him get his just deserts.

Mina literally clock work oranges his ass and he's not acted like a creep since then.


@Eternal-Destiny

DAL is another mishandled series by JC staff. they have a long history of mishandling series. (the biggest example being Toaru series.) which is why i largely do not trust them as a studio. I've rarely seen good work come out of them and it's usually done by the same director.


this is why i always encourage reading the source material with a lot of anime.
GrimAtrament said:
you're not suppose to like mineta hes a creep and everyone treats him like a creep. we get to see him get his just d


Even if you're not supposed to like him, the show plays off his rapist tendencies for comedy which is extremely uncomfortable as a woman. If someone tried pulling that shit on me, they wouldn't be walking for the rest of their life. It just feels kinda bad to have a character like that be played off as a joke even if he is called out for what he is doing, since he keeps doing it and never learns his lesson, turning it into a recurring issue.
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Jan 8, 3:32 PM

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Default reply to "Am I the only one..." YES! You're the only one.

I don't understand the reasoning of "a serious show can't have ecchi/panty-shots", or "a comedy can't have some crying/drama", etc.

If there's some scene that doesn't seem to fit with the general theme of the show, I just ignore it instead of dwelling on it.
One or a few mismatched scenes won't change the over-all theme of a show for me.

I agree with @i-like-this At least pick an actually serious show that has some ecchi/panty-shots as your example.
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Jan 8, 3:47 PM

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Key is not watching Ecchi Shows, then go and complain that they contain Ecchi Scenes.


My dude, there are plenty of *serious* Shows around. Shows without anything distracting from the plot.
Now, watching something like Date a Live or Neptunia, expecting them to be all mature and serious is kinda weird on your part^^ What did you expect?
Jan 8, 3:52 PM

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Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
GrimAtrament said:
you're not suppose to like mineta hes a creep and everyone treats him like a creep. we get to see him get his just d


Even if you're not supposed to like him, the show plays off his rapist tendencies for comedy which is extremely uncomfortable as a woman. If someone tried pulling that shit on me, they wouldn't be walking for the rest of their life. It just feels kinda bad to have a character like that be played off as a joke even if he is called out for what he is doing, since he keeps doing it and never learns his lesson, turning it into a recurring issue.
@LSSJ_Gaming

Disagree. Im a woman and I differentiate between a fictional, silly Shonen-Character and real life.

It feels bad, cause you take something that was made to entertain a 13y old boy as serious as actual harassment issues, in our actual, real society.
That is weird^^
Jan 8, 3:59 PM

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Reply to Older_than_dirt
Default reply to "Am I the only one..." YES! You're the only one.

I don't understand the reasoning of "a serious show can't have ecchi/panty-shots", or "a comedy can't have some crying/drama", etc.

If there's some scene that doesn't seem to fit with the general theme of the show, I just ignore it instead of dwelling on it.
One or a few mismatched scenes won't change the over-all theme of a show for me.

I agree with @i-like-this At least pick an actually serious show that has some ecchi/panty-shots as your example.
@Older_than_dirt I can stand comedy in shonen anime such as Naruto and HXH, as long the show doesn't act like it doesn't know if is supposed to be a comedic or a serious show (even worse if it keeps switchng between comedic and serious multiple times in a short period of time)

To give a more "easier" way to understand what i'm talking about, is that sudden pointless ecchi scenes kind of ruin my immersion on the anime, especially if it has a share of ecchi scenes throughout the anime's runtime and yet for some reason MAL doesn't want to categorize said anime as an ecchi just because so (also, anyone remembers when MAL overcategorized a good bunch of anime as comedy despite having little of it throughout those anime's runtime?)
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Jan 8, 4:22 PM

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yeah it is weird I usually skip that part

maybe I'm cheating my mal days then
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Jan 8, 4:30 PM

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forced ecchi, especially the kind that detracts from what's happening in the story, is very annoying to me
which is why i hated "hidden dungeon only I can enter" so much, that show is nothing but weird ecchi nonsense, with no one acting like a normal person, it's just frustrating, i can't enjoy that.
meanwhile jobless reincarnation has some lewd stuff but it's not too common and not forced like hell, more akin to something you can imagine actually happening irl.

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Jan 8, 4:33 PM

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Reply to shenro
forced ecchi, especially the kind that detracts from what's happening in the story, is very annoying to me
which is why i hated "hidden dungeon only I can enter" so much, that show is nothing but weird ecchi nonsense, with no one acting like a normal person, it's just frustrating, i can't enjoy that.
meanwhile jobless reincarnation has some lewd stuff but it's not too common and not forced like hell, more akin to something you can imagine actually happening irl.
@shenro How is Hidden Dungeon "forced ecchi"? it's literally tagged ecchi. You can't go and watch and ecchi show then complain it's "ecchi nonsense".
"Well, she's flatter than a pancake"
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-Tobiichi Origami 
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Jan 8, 4:38 PM

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I feel like in this specific case, it's your own fault. You already had prior knowledge of the artist and their previous works based on the first post. The Neptunia series is full of fanservice. Looking up anything about Date a Live you should be able to tell right away what kind of kind of show it is with the images full of girls and a single generic looking teen guy. It doesn't have ecchi tag but it has the harem tag. Red flags everywhere. Regardless, the show isn't really ecchi, it's way to tame to be, so it won't be tagged as such. I wouldn't categorize it as 'serious' show either.
Jan 8, 4:47 PM

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Reply to shenro
forced ecchi, especially the kind that detracts from what's happening in the story, is very annoying to me
which is why i hated "hidden dungeon only I can enter" so much, that show is nothing but weird ecchi nonsense, with no one acting like a normal person, it's just frustrating, i can't enjoy that.
meanwhile jobless reincarnation has some lewd stuff but it's not too common and not forced like hell, more akin to something you can imagine actually happening irl.
@shenro "hidden dungeon only I can enter" literally sounds like a sexual innuendo, even more so because the show is an actual ecchi
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Jan 8, 4:50 PM

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OP, your credibility when right out the window the moment you typed Date a Live and Hyperdimension Neptunia. Imagine investing yourself into either of these properties and being upset when they turn out not to be "serious" stories.
Jan 8, 4:59 PM
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wait, you thought Date a Live was a serious show. lmao
Jan 8, 5:04 PM

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Ecchi scenes in shows with comedy/harem tags is not something new...

Infact, they are sometimes to be expected...

Man...as much as i love psychological shows op...
I also need a fair balance of comedy & fanservice...
" Kindness can sometimes lead you to trouble. "

Jan 8, 5:10 PM

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@LSSJ_Gaming

Disagree. Im a woman and I differentiate between a fictional, silly Shonen-Character and real life.

It feels bad, cause you take something that was made to entertain a 13y old boy as serious as actual harassment issues, in our actual, real society.
That is weird^^
@Merve2Love
The thing is that due to some of my personal experiences I tend to be a bit harsher on stuff like that mostly cuz I've had some friends and partners be harassed and assaulted like that in real life and would rather not see one of the literal "hero" characters sexually assaulting people even if its for a "joke". It just makes me feel such a sharp wave of discomfort that is extremely hard to describe
LSSJ_GamingJan 8, 5:16 PM
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Jan 8, 5:16 PM

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Reply to epidemia78
OP, your credibility when right out the window the moment you typed Date a Live and Hyperdimension Neptunia. Imagine investing yourself into either of these properties and being upset when they turn out not to be "serious" stories.
@epidemia78
The problem is that if you look at their pages, they aren't listed as ecchi which can cause a bit of shock when you just see a bunch of explicit scenes that you weren't prepared for. And the "harem" tag isn't really a good indicator that it's going to have sexual content as there are some harem romance series that aren't ecchi content even if the two tend to be commonly grouped together. If you were going in completely blind just seeing the MAL page for Date A Live, you'd really have no clue about the sexual content. The Age rating only mentions "violence and profanity" and nothing about sexual content either so it really gives the viewer going in blind no heads up about the actual content of the series
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Jan 8, 5:21 PM

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Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@Merve2Love
The thing is that due to some of my personal experiences I tend to be a bit harsher on stuff like that mostly cuz I've had some friends and partners be harassed and assaulted like that in real life and would rather not see one of the literal "hero" characters sexually assaulting people even if its for a "joke". It just makes me feel such a sharp wave of discomfort that is extremely hard to describe
@LSSJ_Gaming

Yeah, but that is exactly that -> Your personal stuff^^

Shows shouldn't be censored. Just because you had an issue, that doesn't mean we should only depict morally good characters, in Anime.

There are horrible guys featuring in this Series. Actual murderers. But you don't have a problem with them, right? It's that one specific thing that happened to YOU, that is bothering you.... It's not real, my girl. And it doesn't matter which topic. Anything goes, in fiction.


It's life. You get to feel uncomfortable, sometimes. Not everything is for everyone. And although I feel sorry for you, I don't think that should impact our entertainment. That would be pretty selfish^^
Jan 8, 5:43 PM

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Aug 2018
8171
Reply to LSSJ_Gaming
@epidemia78
The problem is that if you look at their pages, they aren't listed as ecchi which can cause a bit of shock when you just see a bunch of explicit scenes that you weren't prepared for. And the "harem" tag isn't really a good indicator that it's going to have sexual content as there are some harem romance series that aren't ecchi content even if the two tend to be commonly grouped together. If you were going in completely blind just seeing the MAL page for Date A Live, you'd really have no clue about the sexual content. The Age rating only mentions "violence and profanity" and nothing about sexual content either so it really gives the viewer going in blind no heads up about the actual content of the series
@LSSJ_Gaming

Does Date a Live really ever get especially explicit? I wouldnt know for sure because I dropped it at episode 1, but I doubt it. But anyway its pretty obvious at a glance that it's gonna be that kinda show so I can't really empathize with anyone whos shocked by it.
Jan 8, 6:03 PM

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Jun 2017
1534
First of all, was Date a Live supposed to be a serious anime? Thought it was a trashy harem action anime from the beginning? I've only watched the first 2 episodes but those were the vibes I got from it.

Secondly, you're not the only one. There's tons of people who stay away from anything containing even a tiny bit of ecchi. Personally, I don't mind, even in "serious" shows. I guess my brain just instinctively shuts itself off whenever one of those scenes come on.

Jan 8, 6:03 PM

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Apr 2015
2981
@epidemia78 It isn't. The most risque parts are with one character at a lingerie shop with the main character. No nipples or anything.
"Well, she's flatter than a pancake"
-Mimi Alpacas
"Woof"
-Tobiichi Origami 
"Are you trying to turn the dormitory into a strip club!?!
-Atena Saotome 
Jan 8, 6:07 PM

Offline
Oct 2016
2198
No, I assure you, you are not. We are a considerable bunch, I bitch about those scenes all the time.
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