| I think I have a mutual understanding about these two terms. But the uses of them within the anime community makes me confused. An example is Yuri bait. Why does people call Hibike a Yuri bait although it should be more to Shoujo Ai since Yuri is hardcore? I don't understand, please explain. |
| Yuri is love between females. Shoujo Ai is pedophilia towards girls. MAL doesn't give a shit to use them correctly. If they did it would only be used for loli hentai. |
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| from what the little i know, "shoujo ai" is the Western term for non-sexual yuri "yuri" in the West usually refers to hardcore stuff with sexual theme/content i dont think the term "shoujo ai" is exactly used in Japan dunno if i helped at all |
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| Yuri is shoujo ai with lust and tasty things and maybe some uncensored sex |
| A yuri bait example I could use is Kakegurui where the show leads you to think they are all lesbians but it is never explicitely mentionned, baiting both yuri fans and non yuri fans to watch it, if that makes sense. Actually it isn't the best example as I'm still unsure if they're lesbians. Banana Fish is a Yaoi bait (100% sure) where the male characters share deep affection and it might seem like homosexual romance but I'd qualify it more of true manly friendship baiting the women that like Yaoi and shounen ai to read/watch it. Again it is never mentionned explicitely if they are homosexual or not so you're not sure and you'll never know. |
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| Hibike! Euphonium is called yuri bait because the fans knowing all too well that the cherry on top of the cake called KumikoxReina is a lie. That's why it is called yuri bait. No. I was of the same idea in the past but Shoujo-ai is a subdivision of hentai that has to do with underage girl in a sexual relationship with adult man. Shounen-ai is the same but the gender is reversed. Yuri can both have garbage sex story (Citrus) or just wholesome romance (Yagate Kimi ni Naru). |
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| And here I thought "Shoujo Ai" was just simply "magical girl". Oh my... Well, there goes my last shred of innocence. |
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shanimebib said: Shoujo-ai is a subdivision of hentai that has to do with underage girl in a sexual relationship with adult man. So the genders on MAL are wrong, and not only on MAL but in other pages. I've been cheated all my life. |
You're joking? Right? Otherwise, no, what you're talking about is "mahou shoujo". |
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| It's the same difference with yaoi and shounen-ai. Yuri = love between girls, but usually featuring explicit scenes. Shoujo-ai = love between girls, but no explicit scenes. Just diabetes-inducing vanilla cuteness. Idk where these people are getting ideas about pedophiles and whatnot. |
 「 I am forever your most devoted believer. 」 |
| @IpreferEcchi, please tell it again to the person above me. |
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https://myanimelist.net/animelist/FacelessVixen?status=2 I can't say that I've watched much of either genre, let alone have the terms memorized, so... Yeah; I wasn't joking. |
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I don't blame them for thinking that though, there's a couple of magical girl series that go into shoujo-ai territory (especially in recent years) lol |
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| Constructively thinking, Hibike! Euphonium could easily turn into a Shoujo-Ai. So, the OP is not entirely wrong. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) |
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| Personally I don't see the need for the continued use of the genre "shoujo ai" on sites like MAL anymore. Like others have said its technically incorrect with Japan referring to all lesbian content in anime and manga as either Yuri or GL (meaning Girls Love). And the actual meaning of "shoujo ai" describes pedophilic content. Also this distinction between explicit and non-explicit titles via a seperate genre isn't made for boy-girl romance titles. And there already is a genre for the explicity of content with "hentai". (And if you look on MAL under the yuri genre that's pretty much the only thing that's left.) And genre aren't exclusive - for example a title can be both drama and slice-of-life. So an explicit lesbian title would have both the genre Yuri and Hentai. |
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| Yuri is lesbian romance/sex and shoujo ai is pedophilia towards females. Very different concepts. IMO MAL shoujo just distinguish yuri hentai from non-hentai yuri through the inclusion or exclusion of the hentai tag. If they refuse to combine the two tags they could at least rename "shoujo ai" to "girls love" to be more accurate. |
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| I've never seen the point in making a distinction between explicit and non-explicit content within yuri as a genre, especially when descriptive tags like ecchi, hentai, or adult are already largely used to mean something sexual. With times changing and even publishing companies adopting the proper japanese connotations, it's outdated thinking to even want to keep shoujo ai around to mean anything other than lolicon. |
| Well the difference between this two, is highly debated in the anime community!! And as always we cant get along =P I have removed the "Shoujo Ai" tag and simply only using Yuri to describe a Japanese media who portrays a lesbian relationship .Some are stronger then other but still calling it Yuri Then we have the biggest fucking trash there is!! Filth that I wouldn't piss on even if it was on fire.. Yuri bait!"!!!! Hibike! Euphonium! is good example!! Anime that tries to lure in the viewers by bating with lesbian goodness ,but in the end only have heterosexuality in it!! Boring!!! And then I have MY standards and my rules on what a Yuri must be!! And dont consider impure filth to even be a Yuri that other praise!!! So their are a lot different opinions..And Im NOT saying my opinions and taste are better or superior then anyone else,, This is how I see things if people agrees or not is up to them In the end I dont care that much! Have better things to do then fight over what is a Yuri or Shoujo Ai!! Like watching Yuri!! But do have fun!! Im out!!! Yuri (genre) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Yuri (百合, "lily"), also known by the wasei-eigo construction Girls' Love (ガールズラブ gāruzu rabu),[3] is a Japanese jargon term for content and a genre involving lesbian relationships or homoeroticism in light novels, manga, anime, video games and related Japanese media.[4][5] Yuri focuses on the sexual orientation or the romantic orientation aspects of the relationship, or both, the latter of which is sometimes called shōjo-ai by Western fandom.[6]  |
Yuri-CrusaderNov 4, 2019 4:57 AM
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| It's too easy to be discussed this hard. 1) In terms of genre: - Shoujo ai is girls homosexual love stories. - Yuri is a lesbian porn. 2) Word 'yuri' has two separate meanings: - The named genre about lesbian porn. - A global word used in community to describe the vast variety of girl-love topics, both in porn and romantic meanings |
Nemo_NiemandNov 4, 2019 1:12 AM
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| @IpreferEcchi Well, we are not in Japan, you know. In western community the meaning of these words remains the same as it has been before. Innovative opinions of some pretentious weebs don't matter. And you just shit on others and call "american community" moronic. That disgraceful behavior won't make you an elitist |
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| In the western community, yuri is a more explicit, more mature lesbian relationship, shoujo ai can encompass everything from class S to a more sugary, sexless, relationship between two girls. MAL uses both to differentiate lesbian hentai from non-hentai. In Japan, everything is yuri, shoujo ai isn't used for the depiction of lesbian relationships. People call Hibike! Euphonium yuribait because, let's be real, it has a better sound to it and it's by no means wrong - and the popularized terms are yuribait and yurifag, not shoujo-ai-bait and shoujo-ai-fag, doesn't have the same oomph to it. Also, the scenes between Reina and Kumiko are much, much more juicy than some of the actually tagged shoujo ai out there, ngl. |
KosmonautNov 4, 2019 3:35 AM
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| After reading some of the above posts, I am kinda surprised by knowing what shoujo ai actually means. I thought it translated to 'girls love' but it was something else this whole time. Thanks @shanimebib and @IpreferEcchi for enlightening me. Regarding hibike, kumiko x reina is a thing that is only exclusive to anime and not canon at all hence, it is regarded as yuri bait. Mizore x nozomi might be a thing but they are rarely shown at all. |
cythraulNov 4, 2019 3:33 AM
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cythraul said: Regarding hibike, kumiko x reina is a thing that is only exclusive to anime and not canon at all hence, it is regarded as yuri bait. Mizore x nozomi might be a thing but they are rarely shown at all. Regarding the content inside your spoiler tag, that is not the case because As for Mizore and Nozomi, there is an entire movie dedicated to them and them only, right? And it is Yamada Naoko's greatest production yet. I regard it higher than anything she has worked on in her illustrious career. |
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lavah said: Yuri shows sexual intercourse and shoujo-ai doesn't, right? If you want to put it that way, yes, basically that's correct. There may be implied sexual interest in shoujo-ai, but it's not shown explicitely at all - that's what yuri's for. Or yuri-hentai. Shoujo-ai's practically Girl's Love, putting much more emphasis on the emotional side. At least here in the West/outside of Japan, like Taka-tin already said. |
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shanimebib said: cythraul said: Regarding hibike, kumiko x reina is a thing that is only exclusive to anime and not canon at all hence, it is regarded as yuri bait. Mizore x nozomi might be a thing but they are rarely shown at all. Regarding the content inside your spoiler tag, that is not the case because As for Mizore and Nozomi, there is an entire movie dedicated to them and them only, right? And it is Yamada Naoko's greatest production yet. I regard it higher than anything she has worked on in her illustrious career. I didn't know third movie(chikai) actually covered the relationship. I am hyped for it now. As for liz to aoi tori, I know the whole movie was based on mizore x nozomi relationship but I was talking about the main series since it is the one considered as yuri bait by most of the people where only a single episode is dedicated to mizore and nozomi. Liz to aoi tori isn't considered as a yuri bait and it is also strong enough to stand as a standalone movie. OP in particular was talking about yuri bait hence I said 'Mizore x nozomi might be a thing but they are rarely shown at all.' Well, liz to aoi tori is the only reason why I have yamada in my favorites. |
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| @IPreferEcchi @zombie_pegasus Whence is this idea? I never saw this classification, neither M.A.L. nor MangaDex seem to use it. CMYK said: Nor is there a need to even have these absurd "yuri" and "yaoi" genres; it's about as absurd as saying that Attack on Titan were a different genre had the protagonist been female; because that's all that changes here: flip the sex of a character and it suddenly becomes "yuri" — apart from that there seemingly is no absurd, special name for opposite-sex romance.I've never seen the point in making a distinction between explicit and non-explicit content within yuri as a genre, especially when descriptive tags like ecchi, hentai, or adult are already largely used to mean something sexual. Just as "female protagonist mecha" and "male protagonist mecha" would suffice to make the distinction. So would "female–female romance" or "female-female smut"; furthermore, these aren't even truly "genres"; they're stylistic elements; there is a difference. |
 It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Sphinxter said: apart from that there seemingly is no absurd, special name for opposite-sex romance. You're right and you should say it. For people like me at least, it's easier having yuri/yaoi as a filter for relationships between women/men, not necessarily romance. Tags here are severely lacking but you can find more variety elsewhere, like mangaupdates or anilist. |
CMYK said: So how much would these people explode at having to name something like a male–male–female romance?Sphinxter said: apart from that there seemingly is no absurd, special name for opposite-sex romance. You're right and you should say it. For people like me at least, it's easier having yuri/yaoi as a filter for relationships between women/men, not necessarily romance. Tags here are severely lacking but you can find more variety elsewhere, like mangaupdates or anilist. My very simple and consistent naming scheme is obviously quite adequate. 'tis also why the term "reverse harem" is ridiculous. How is one to deal with a mixed-sex harem with this bourgeois terminology that so insist that sex is the single most important thing in the universe. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Sphinxter said: You can look up the term on Wikipedia and it explains how the definition of shoujo ai being non-sexual yuri is a Western only thing and in Japan the term is only used as a synonym for lolicon.@IPreferEcchi @zombie_pegasus Whence is this idea? I never saw this classification, neither M.A.L. nor MangaDex seem to use it. CMYK said: Nor is there a need to even have these absurd "yuri" and "yaoi" genres; it's about as absurd as saying that Attack on Titan were a different genre had the protagonist been female; because that's all that changes here: flip the sex of a character and it suddenly becomes "yuri" — apart from that there seemingly is no absurd, special name for opposite-sex romance.I've never seen the point in making a distinction between explicit and non-explicit content within yuri as a genre, especially when descriptive tags like ecchi, hentai, or adult are already largely used to mean something sexual. Just as "female protagonist mecha" and "male protagonist mecha" would suffice to make the distinction. So would "female–female romance" or "female-female smut"; furthermore, these aren't even truly "genres"; they're stylistic elements; there is a difference. On your second point, yaoi is a super common genre in manga and is generally aimed at females. Yuri is also often aimed at females, but since so many males read it as well, even titles that are aimed at women, it makes sense to separate them so males are able to avoid yaoi rather than it all just being the gay genre without telling you which sex it's about. There are over 5000 yaoi manga and only 500 yuri manga listed on MAL. It wouldn't be nice to yuri fans to force them to sift through so many yaoi before they find a yuri. |
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zombie_pegasus said: I just did, Wikipedia makes no mention of the term; it redirects to "yuri" when searched, but mentions it not on the actual page. Would you be so kind to point me to where it is mentioned?Sphinxter said: You can look up the term on Wikipedia and it explains how the definition of shoujo ai being non-sexual yuri is a Western only thing and in Japan the term is only used as a synonym for lolicon.@IPreferEcchi @zombie_pegasus Whence is this idea? I never saw this classification, neither M.A.L. nor MangaDex seem to use it. Nor is there a need to even have these absurd "yuri" and "yaoi" genres; it's about as absurd as saying that Attack on Titan were a different genre had the protagonist been female; because that's all that changes here: flip the sex of a character and it suddenly becomes "yuri" — apart from that there seemingly is no absurd, special name for opposite-sex romance. Just as "female protagonist mecha" and "male protagonist mecha" would suffice to make the distinction. So would "female–female romance" or "female-female smut"; furthermore, these aren't even truly "genres"; they're stylistic elements; there is a difference. On your second point, yaoi is a super common genre in manga and is generally aimed at females. Yuri is also often aimed at females, but since so many males read it as well, even titles that are aimed at women, it makes sense to separate them so males are able to avoid yaoi rather than it all just being the gay genre without telling you which sex it's about. There are over 5000 yaoi manga and only 500 yuri manga listed on MAL. It wouldn't be nice to yuri fans to force them to sift through so many yaoi before they find a yuri. It's a problem that exists with everything. If I search for "romance" then the majority of it is not to my liking. I personally find it far more useful to have a search term for "romance with adequate progression", because my problem with a lot of it is that it teases a ship it progresses not, until the very end when inexplicably it suddenly picks up the pace.Then comes the problem that the gender of some of these characters is ambiguous or a plot twist. There was much debate on Mangadex whether "Prunus Girl" should, or should not be classified as "syounen-ai — the inhærent problem with this classification is that the series never truly factually establishes Kizuna's sex; until the very end and certainly at the start, it continues to play with the possibility that Kizuna is merely trolling about his own sex for whatever reason. And apart from that: the endless debates whether "traps are gay" which also leads to wars with these nonsensical classifications. |
SphinxterNov 4, 2019 3:16 PM
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| @Sphinxter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_(genre)#Japanese_vis-%C3%A0-vis_Western_usage It's in that yuri article where it says it. About the difference of the two, I do understand your idea to merge everything gay into one genre, but I still don't feel like it would really be helpful. It would be even worse imo if it wasn't a genre at all and instead just classified as a type of romance or hentai, especially because of the prominence of yaoi manga. Yaoi has around 5k entries on MAL and shounen ai has around 1k while romance as a whole has 13k. Yaoi is clearly an extremely common subgenre of romance and subgenres make sense to separate from their parent genre when they're popular enough. Same reason why we separate harem from romance and mecha from sci-fi. Genre tags help people know what to expect from a title before they watch it. |
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zombie_pegasus said: Ah yes, the macron screwed with my search.@Sphinxter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_(genre)#Japanese_vis-%C3%A0-vis_Western_usage It's in that yuri article where it says it. About the difference of the two, I do understand your idea to merge everything gay into one genre I never said "anything gay"; I said that it is useless to classify genres into genders altogether because it's often irrelevant, ambiguous, not applicable, or hotly debated. I'm saying to just have a "romance" genre; the "gay" stuff is of no consequence. And this doesn't even yet begint to dive into the complexity of three-way pairings.but I still don't feel like it would really be helpful. It would be even worse imo if it wasn't a genre at all and instead just classified as a type of romance or hentai, especially because of the prominence of yaoi manga. Why would the genders of the protagonists be more relevant in romance than in say "action"? There is no separate genre for "action" with male and female protagonists either, so why with romance?Yaoi has around 5k entries on MAL and shounen ai has around 1k while romance as a whole has 13k. Yaoi is clearly an extremely common subgenre of romance and subgenres make sense to separate from their parent genre when they're popular enough. Same reason why we separate harem from romance and mecha from sci-fi. Genre tags help people know what to expect from a title before they watch it. Yet many more common subgenres have no such names. I'm sure that "tundere romance" is also very common, but it has no special tag either; and whether a character is a tundere or not is far more relevant to the dynamic and characterization than whether a character is male or female, which often is little more than a field in an infobox. And what is one to do when a character is revealed to be a different sex than originally implied half way in the series which is sometimes done? |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Sphinxter said: CMYK said: So how much would these people explode at having to name something like a male–male–female romance?You're right and you should say it. For people like me at least, it's easier having yuri/yaoi as a filter for relationships between women/men, not necessarily romance. Tags here are severely lacking but you can find more variety elsewhere, like mangaupdates or anilist. My very simple and consistent naming scheme is obviously quite adequate. 'tis also why the term "reverse harem" is ridiculous. How is one to deal with a mixed-sex harem with this bourgeois terminology that so insist that sex is the single most important thing in the universe. imo the more language to help people find what they're looking for, the better - especially when there's enough titles to warrant the attention, like how isekai was named. About your example: there is no 'love triangle' or 'polyamory' sub-genre on MAL, but that would probably be the way to go about it when dealing with 3 people of different sexes. |
CMYK said: I am merely advocating that it be decomposed.Sphinxter said: So how much would these people explode at having to name something like a male–male–female romance? My very simple and consistent naming scheme is obviously quite adequate. 'tis also why the term "reverse harem" is ridiculous. How is one to deal with a mixed-sex harem with this bourgeois terminology that so insist that sex is the single most important thing in the universe. imo the more language to help people find what they're looking for, the better - especially when there's enough titles to warrant the attention, like how isekai was named. About your example: there is no 'love triangle' or 'polyamory' sub-genre on MAL, but that would probably be the way to go about it when dealing with 3 people of different sexes. It should rather be possible to specify "romance" and then fill in the genders of the protagonists, should one truly be bourgeois as to care about a flag on an infobox, similarly, should one be so bourgeois as to care about the gender of the action hero, one might fill that in too. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| In fact, only the word "yuri" or GL has a reason to exist. Shoujo Ai was artificially created by weebs for an extremely subjective separation of works of the same genre, which not only complicated categorization, but also frightened away many people from using a more ideal and laconic term. |
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RobertBobert said: Neither should; I'm never unironically using them. "yuri' is not a genre; it's a character design at best, and sometimes, it's little more than a classification in an infobox.In fact, only the word "yuri" or GL has a reason to exist. Shoujo Ai was artificially created by weebs for an extremely subjective separation of works of the same genre, which not only complicated categorization, but also frightened away many people from using a more ideal and laconic term. In Hino-San no Baka, that it supposedly is "yuri" is as about as absurd as calling it a different genre over the blood type of the main characters, given that Koguma has a completely androgynous design and the only thing that makes him female is the author saying that he is, much like blood type. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
Sphinxter said: RobertBobert said: Neither should; I'm never unironically using them. "yuri' is not a genre; it's a character design at best, and sometimes, it's little more than a classification in an infobox.In fact, only the word "yuri" or GL has a reason to exist. Shoujo Ai was artificially created by weebs for an extremely subjective separation of works of the same genre, which not only complicated categorization, but also frightened away many people from using a more ideal and laconic term. In Hino-San no Baka, that it supposedly is "yuri" is as about as absurd as calling it a different genre over the blood type of the main characters, given that Koguma has a completely androgynous design and the only thing that makes him female is the author saying that he is, much like blood type. Design? WHAT? If yuri is a design, then yaoi is a geographical term. |
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RobertBobert said: Pray tell — what is the difference between a male and female cartoon character if not the character design?Sphinxter said: Neither should; I'm never unironically using them. "yuri' is not a genre; it's a character design at best, and sometimes, it's little more than a classification in an infobox. In Hino-San no Baka, that it supposedly is "yuri" is as about as absurd as calling it a different genre over the blood type of the main characters, given that Koguma has a completely androgynous design and the only thing that makes him female is the author saying that he is, much like blood type. Design? WHAT? If yuri is a design, then yaoi is a geographical term. The difference between a male and female character can be as simple as the clothes it is wearing. |
It is obvious that "obscenity" is not a term capable of exact legal definition; in the practice of the courts, it means "anything that shocks the magistrate". — Bertrand Russell |
| If it's on MAL, then Yuri is almost exclusively lesbian hentai. Shoujo Ai is anything from only implyig girls' love up to explicit female-on-female rape fetish as long as it's not categorized as hentai. |
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