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Netflix is a terrible company that doesn't care about the anime industry whatsoever

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#1
Aug 13, 6:50 PM
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For a while now, Netflix has inched farther and farther into the anime scene. At first, many looked at this fact hoping that Netflix could maybe make anime more mainstream in the west. While this is partially the case, in recent years, Netflix has made it increasingly clear that they are entirely out-of-touch and have no regard for the medium and its fans. The one and only good thing Netflix has done for anime is bring a sizeable amount of shows to a new platform for people to watch legally, which means hardly anything when you consider most of these shows have been available on Crunchyroll for a while now.

Netflix's first offense is the terrible way they handle currently airing shows in countries other than Japan. An example of this, and probably the most notable instance, would be when Little Witch Academia was greenlit for a full 24 episode anime, and was set to be streamed exclusively on Netflix. Everything was fine and dandy, until Netflix decided it was more important to keep up their binging shtick than to simulcast the show as it aired like any other sensible anime streaming service. They sat on the airing episodes for several months, and, despite severe backlash from fans of LWA, didn't make a single statement regarding their choice to hold back the available episodes. Finally, after the show finished airing, Netflix released the majority of the episodes, and then for no apparent reason, sat on the last portion of the episodes for another 3 months. The whole situation pissed off the entire fanbase and drove most to pirate the show illegally, as the episodes had been available to Japanese viewers the whole time. Netflix has handled many of their exclusive anime like this, such as Baki and Violet Evergarden, to many fans dismay, all to maintain the idea that binging shows is the superior way to watch.

Netflix's second offense would be their generally out-of-touch relationship with and blatant disregard for the anime community. It was honestly pretty exciting seeing Netflix pick up Evangelion at first. They finally broke a decade long curse of having almost no legal ways to enjoy the show, and after tons of positive feedback, it was clear they could redeem themselves of past transgressions by simply making Evangelion streamable. They still messed it up though, and pretty badly too. After being begged to bring back the original dub, Netflix still proceeded to make a new dub which, although undoubtedly more consistent, lacks any charm or character. They redid the subtitles into a more literal, politically correct version that ruins many emotional scenes and spits in the face of anybody who worked on the original script. They even removed FMTTM, which is an objectively crucial part of the Evangelion experience, which shows how little they really cared about the project to begin with, and Evangelion's only one of many instances of Netflix disrespecting and flat out ignoring the anime community. Their live-action anime movies are insanely bad and tarnish the reputation of many legendary anime, such as Death Note and Fullmetal Alchemist. In fact, the majority of the Netflix original anime line up is rather mediocre at best, and abysmal at worst. Anime like 7Seeds and Blame! are laughable adaptations of promising source material, and are sadly representative of most of the other original anime in Netflix's catalog, with a few exceptions. And despite all this, Netflix seems to be completely blind to their situation, with a live-action Cowboy Bebop in the works, and a plethora of other, similarly low quality original anime coming soon.

Netflix's third, and most recent offense is their new, absolutely awful documentary Enter The Anime. I managed to make it through only about half of it, just barely, and within that time, I got to hear the single stupidest documentary narrator this side of the planet patronize and disrepect Japan and its culture non-stop and call manga and anime creators "mentally deranged" several times. Not even joking. It's crazy really, this documentary is supposed to be a newcomer's journey into the world of anime culture from what I could tell, but after 30 minutes of terrible, cringy writing and some of the worst visual editing I've seen in a while, nothing was really achieved narratively at all, and that's not even the best part. There are several interviews sprinkled throughout the documentary, and funnily enough, every single interview is with somebody involved in one of Netflix's recent original anime. Yep, that's right, the whole god damn thing is a giant ad for Netflix's anime and nothing else. And see, this wouldn't be a problem if it was disclosed clearly to the viewer, but the only mention of who owns the rights to the anime discussed in the interviews is at the very end in the credits. Netflix makes an entire hour long documentary, filled with ignorant, crass, and simply disrespectful statements told by a shit eating hipster, all to pull in some casual anime fans to watch their original anime.

Netflix does not care at all about the anime industry. They do not and never will listen to the community. It doesn't matter how shitty it is, in the end, Netflix will do anything if it pushes their agenda. They have given nothing to the medium and will continue to give nothing as long as people stay interested. Simply put, Netflix has made it clear they have no good intentions regarding the anime industry and are only really in it for the money. Sadly, that's always how it is nowadays.
Modified by Masutado, Aug 14, 3:21 AM
 
#2
Aug 13, 6:58 PM

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I enjoyed Devilman Crybaby, that's I'll say about anime on Netflix....
 
#3
Aug 13, 7:01 PM
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Setsuei said:
I enjoyed Devilman Crybaby, that's I'll say about anime on Netflix....


I will admit there are certainly exceptions, Devilman Crybaby and Violet Evergarden are 2 that come to mind, but they also seem to be shows that Netflix had the least amount of presense in.
 
#4
Aug 13, 7:04 PM

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I agree completely. Screw them; the only good thing I can say is "The Aggretsuko dub is pretty good"

But even the subbed version is grossly mistranslated. I would absolutely believe they don't care about us at all. It also pisses me off that they have the BALLS to put "Netflix Original" at the start of every anime they stream!

NO, YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT. F*CK YOUUUUUUUUU. I don't support them. I've downloaded fansubs of every one of "their" anime. Lol



 
#5
Aug 13, 7:12 PM

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Im pretty sure they aired Violet Evergarden weekly? That was the one exeption though. If they dont make shows available immediately like other services do then im not going to feel guilty about watching them elsewhere.

They probably just want everything dubbed on release, even their foreign live action series are set to dub by default... That should be a crime.
 
#6
Aug 13, 7:13 PM

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wait, you mean you actually thought it was ever about anything but the money? they couldn't give two shits about the 'fanbase' of any genre, let alone one in particular. they see something with trending popularity, so they bump content in an effort to bring in fresh subscribers. anyone who's had the service more than a month or two already knows this.

they've also always been in the business of dropping entire seasons at once for binge reasons (and i'm sure some monetary benefit for them as well) that's how they've been since they first started doing streaming. if you want weekly releases, you go to hulu (or the like). everyone knows that too.

at the end of the day, the people that give a shit about this stuff make up a smidgeon of a percent of their viewers. the other 99.9% just click on whatever looks interesting and go about their lives.
 
#7
Aug 13, 7:25 PM
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ubernewb said:
wait, you mean you actually thought it was ever about anything but the money? they couldn't give two shits about the 'fanbase' of any genre, let alone one in particular. they see something with trending popularity, so they bump content in an effort to bring in fresh subscribers. anyone who's had the service more than a month or two already knows this.

they've also always been in the business of dropping entire seasons at once for binge reasons (and i'm sure some monetary benefit for them as well) that's how they've been since they first started doing streaming. if you want weekly releases, you go to hulu (or the like). everyone knows that too.

at the end of the day, the people that give a shit about this stuff make up a smidgeon of a percent of their viewers. the other 99.9% just click on whatever looks interesting and go about their lives.


Yea, I'm aware, but like you said, the vast majority don't realize this stuff, or at least do and just don't care. I only made this post in a vain attempt to get the word out y'know, it's all you really can do.
 
#8
Aug 13, 7:28 PM

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Big western money only sees anime as something to milk.

The bigger a company gets, the more money becomes the goal. Investors... shareholders... there is a certain point around middle management where everyone higher up has only one goal: Money. The bigger a company becomes, the more layers of management, the more people with power there are and the more detached those people become from any kind of real passion for the product.

Food that provides no sustenance, clothes that provide no comfort, and art that contains no artistry. That is the result of money.

If you really care about anime, you don't have a Netflix account.
Watching: Haganai NEXT.

Watching Weekly: Sounan Desu ka, Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku.

Recently Finished: Shield Hero (7), Shoumetsu Toshi (7), Midara na Ao-chan (6), Miru Tights (7), Fate UBW S1 (9) / S2 (10), Your Lie in April (9), Haganai (10).

Check out my blog at http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Morality-Based Artistic Critique is Bunk, Part 3
 
#9
Aug 13, 7:33 PM

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YossaRedMage said:

If you really care about anime, you don't have a Netflix account.


because you obviously can't enjoy the rest of their catalog?

anime shouldn't be the reason you have a netflix account
 
Aug 13, 7:34 PM
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YossaRedMage said:
Big western money only sees anime as something to milk.

The bigger a company gets, the more money becomes the goal. Investors... shareholders... there is a certain point around middle management where everyone higher up has only one goal: Money. The bigger a company becomes, the more layers of management, the more people with power there are and the more detached those people become from any kind of real passion for the product.

Food that provides no sustenance, clothes that provide no comfort, and art that contains no artistry. That is the result of money.

If you really care about anime, you don't have a Netflix account.


Couldn't of said it better. I was going to add a call for anime fans to boycott Netflix in my original post, but I didn't want to push my luck.
 
Aug 13, 7:36 PM

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You could just...not watch Netflix anime shows. It is not like there isn't enough anime around to watch.

My issue with Netflix is that they really aren't doing anything for the anime industry. They provide another outlet to sell shows to, but from what I have read they don't pay any better than anyone else. It does not help us as consumers to have an additional company to pay subscriptions too.

I think some people get really excited about the Netflix money, but so far this seems to just be a myth. Netflix does not fund anime directly. Although they might have funded the Evangelion dubbing, I haven't found information for that.

In short: "Netflix Original" is just a lie. Maybe this is old news to others, sorry if that is the case.
 
Aug 13, 7:41 PM

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ubernewb said:
YossaRedMage said:

If you really care about anime, you don't have a Netflix account.


because you obviously can't enjoy the rest of their catalog?

anime shouldn't be the reason you have a netflix account


Obviously I'm exagerrating. But if one is happy to pirate everything from Netflix they would want to watch and they're really passionate about preserving the artistic value of the anime industry... well, I think you'll find a hell of a lot of anime fans who don't have a Netflix account for these reasons.
Watching: Haganai NEXT.

Watching Weekly: Sounan Desu ka, Tejina-senpai, Kawaikereba, Takagi-san 2, Machikado Mazoku.

Recently Finished: Shield Hero (7), Shoumetsu Toshi (7), Midara na Ao-chan (6), Miru Tights (7), Fate UBW S1 (9) / S2 (10), Your Lie in April (9), Haganai (10).

Check out my blog at http://yossanime.com/
Lastest post: Morality-Based Artistic Critique is Bunk, Part 3
 
Aug 13, 7:42 PM
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Maenads said:
You could just...not watch Netflix anime shows. It is not like there isn't enough anime around to watch.

My issue with Netflix is that they really aren't doing anything for the anime industry. They provide another outlet to sell shows to, but from what I have read they don't pay any better than anyone else. It does not help us as consumers to have an additional company to pay subscriptions too.

I think some people get really excited about the Netflix money, but so far this seems to just be a myth. Netflix does not fund anime directly. Although they might have funded the Evangelion dubbing, I haven't found information for that.

In short: "Netflix Original" is just a lie. Maybe this is old news to others, sorry if that is the case.


Precisely. As far as I know, Netflix's involvement in the anime industry hasn't resulted in any substancial amount of money going toward the hard working studios that make their Netflix "originals", which is a shame really.
 
Aug 13, 7:43 PM
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Masutado said:
The one and only good thing Netflix has done for anime is bring a sizeable amount of shows to a new platform for people to watch legally, which means hardly anything when you consider most of these shows have been available on Crunchyroll for a while now.
The difference here is; Crunchyroll just broke 2 million subscribers i think, while Netflix has 140 million.

As for Netflix's binging philosophy, it's also probably cheaper to have exclusive rights after it's fully aired, i just assume that to be the case. Also you have to understand, the 2 million subscribers of Crunchyroll who get simulcasts is completely dwarfed by the 140 million of people who have been enjoying binge culture, their desires out weigh yours. I prefer simulcasts, but instead i'll just pirate, not really a big deal but it's not hurting the industry exposing their audience to anime it's a great thing. They also tried simulcasting already and probably deemed it unsuccessful for it's viewerbase, because Violet Evergarden was in fact week to week. It was the most popular anime airing at the time, but for the Netflix audience it probably did poorly in comparison.

As for NGE, that is not Netflix's fault on the dub, NGE has been in literal licensing hell for over a decade and it was likely cheaper to just redub it. It must have already cost a fortune to even get NGE in the first place, they couldn't even afford the rights to the ending song. As for the subtitles, they aren't the only ones as all translations are subject to the translators interpretation of Japanese. As bad as you rag on the live action adaptations, they're still infinitely better than the Japanese live action adaptations.

I have nothing to add to the documentary since i haven't seen it or have ever been interested in doing so. I don't find any documentary on any niche thing to be fruitful or faithful when it's not handled by people inside the industry.

Anime is a business, that is true for 99% of studios and streaming services in and outside of Japan. Have you forgotten about the working conditions and culture at most studios? The anime industry doesn't care about the anime industry, it's not fair or completely disingenuous that you single out Netflix. Also you fail to realize Netflix is playing a bigger game than the niche anime community, when it's own audience is larger than the entire population of Japan. All in all, Netflix is doing amazing things by exposing more people to the industry on a scale not even close to what anybody else has ever done and probably wont for a very long time. What they're doing is good.

Edit:
Masutado said:
Setsuei said:
I enjoyed Devilman Crybaby, that's I'll say about anime on Netflix....


I will admit there are certainly exceptions, Devilman Crybaby and Violet Evergarden are 2 that come to mind, but they also seem to be shows that Netflix had the least amount of presense in.
As for this, that's mostly what they do. Just license things, that's all.

Masutado said:
ubernewb said:
wait, you mean you actually thought it was ever about anything but the money? they couldn't give two shits about the 'fanbase' of any genre, let alone one in particular. they see something with trending popularity, so they bump content in an effort to bring in fresh subscribers. anyone who's had the service more than a month or two already knows this.

they've also always been in the business of dropping entire seasons at once for binge reasons (and i'm sure some monetary benefit for them as well) that's how they've been since they first started doing streaming. if you want weekly releases, you go to hulu (or the like). everyone knows that too.

at the end of the day, the people that give a shit about this stuff make up a smidgeon of a percent of their viewers. the other 99.9% just click on whatever looks interesting and go about their lives.


Yea, I'm aware, but like you said, the vast majority don't realize this stuff, or at least do and just don't care. I only made this post in a vain attempt to get the word out y'know, it's all you really can do.
In this case, you are in the minority.

Masutado said:
Maenads said:
You could just...not watch Netflix anime shows. It is not like there isn't enough anime around to watch.

My issue with Netflix is that they really aren't doing anything for the anime industry. They provide another outlet to sell shows to, but from what I have read they don't pay any better than anyone else. It does not help us as consumers to have an additional company to pay subscriptions too.

I think some people get really excited about the Netflix money, but so far this seems to just be a myth. Netflix does not fund anime directly. Although they might have funded the Evangelion dubbing, I haven't found information for that.

In short: "Netflix Original" is just a lie. Maybe this is old news to others, sorry if that is the case.


Precisely. As far as I know, Netflix's involvement in the anime industry hasn't resulted in any substancial amount of money going toward the hard working studios that make their Netflix "originals", which is a shame really.
@Maenads, @Masutado, They pay top dollar for licensing, i don't know about contracted work. Also it's not like the studios redistribute the money, they don't care about paying their workers.
Modified by Lunilah, Aug 13, 7:50 PM



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whether you make it or not.
 
Aug 13, 7:50 PM
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I mean, to be fair, Netflix screws over everyone. They cancel good shows, split seasons in half, give has-beens new shows, only stream 50 episodes of long series, and so on.

It's not that they don't understand the anime market. They're just flailing around wildly in general because of some algorithm upper management's enamored of.
 
Aug 13, 7:52 PM

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Lunilah said:
All in all, Netflix is doing amazing things by exposing more people to the industry on a scale not even close to what anybody else has ever done and probably wont for a very long time. What they're doing is good.


exactly.. the more people they expose to it, the more people seek more anime out elsewhere. more interest in anime in general = more money invested into getting even more anime and anime merchandise out there for everyone to consume.
 
Aug 13, 7:53 PM

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Anime is such a small part of Netflix that I don't see why its worth getting upset about. If you're going to sign up to a streaming service for the specific purpose of watching anime then Crunchyroll is a much more anime oriented service than Netflix is. Think of Netflix as any other service in that its a streaming service that happens to have some anime on it. As it stands right now though, there's no real reason for them to cater to us.

I haven't seen that documentary but if its as bad as you say, then its the director and producers of the documentary you really should have beef with instead of Netflix.
 
Aug 13, 7:53 PM
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_Ridley_ said:
I mean, to be fair, Netflix screws over everyone. They cancel good shows, split seasons in half, give has-beens new shows, only stream 50 episodes of long series, and so on.

It's not that they don't understand the anime market. They're just flailing around wildly in general because of some algorithm upper management's enamored of.
They cancel shows people don't care about, because they operate on a loss. Or licencors don't renew the contract or pull their shows.

ubernewb said:
Lunilah said:
All in all, Netflix is doing amazing things by exposing more people to the industry on a scale not even close to what anybody else has ever done and probably wont for a very long time. What they're doing is good.


exactly.. the more people they expose to it, the more people seek more anime out elsewhere. more interest in anime in general = more money invested into getting even more anime and anime merchandise out there for everyone to consume.
A correct assessment which i believe to ring true for a lot, but not too many, people.



Life happens wherever you are,
whether you make it or not.
 
Aug 13, 7:56 PM
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Literally only watched Seven Deadly sins and Devilman Crybaby on Netflix. Oh and Baki(before i realized they only put out half of the english dub on there). Netflix is garbage for watching anime. Kissanime is the only option for me, or crunchyroll with adblock and a custom video player extension on it. If a show comes out on Netflix that I am interested in I'll even use my moms account or just watch it on a free movie streaming website.
 
Aug 13, 8:00 PM

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Calling that new Evangelion translation both 'too literal' and 'politically correct' at the same time is funny to me. The guy behind it is a Khara translator, like there's no conspiracy to destroy the script. If they really wanted to do that they'd have hired some nobody.

But other people have already said it, it's all about the money. Netflix anime fans are a customer base all of their own, so they're catered to in a way that will make Netflix money. But I hear they're losing customers in general, so who knows if any of the weird shit they do actually makes any sense. (I'm not a Netflix customer)

Also, international streaming is pretty important right now to anime, I don't know where people are getting this 'Netflix isn't funding the industry' because they obviously do, like every other streaming company.
Modified by syncrogazer, Aug 13, 8:24 PM
 
Aug 13, 8:02 PM
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Lunilah said:
Masutado said:
The one and only good thing Netflix has done for anime is bring a sizeable amount of shows to a new platform for people to watch legally, which means hardly anything when you consider most of these shows have been available on Crunchyroll for a while now.
The difference here is; Crunchyroll just broke 2 million subscribers i think, while Netflix has 140 million.

As for Netflix's binging philosophy, it's also probably cheaper to have exclusive rights after it's fully aired, i just assume that to be the case. Also you have to understand, the 2 million subscribers of Crunchyroll who get simulcasts is completely dwarfed by the 140 million of people who have been enjoying binge culture, their desires out weigh yours. I prefer simulcasts, but instead i'll just pirate, not really a big deal but it's not hurting the industry exposing their audience to anime it's a great thing. They also tried simulcasting already and probably deemed it unsuccessful for it's viewerbase, because Violet Evergarden was in fact week to week. It was the most popular anime airing at the time, but for the Netflix audience it probably did poorly in comparison.

As for NGE, that is not Netflix's fault on the dub, NGE has been in literal licensing hell for over a decade and it was likely cheaper to just redub it. It must have already cost a fortune to even get NGE in the first place, they couldn't even afford the rights to the ending song. As for the subtitles, they aren't the only ones as all translations are subject to the translators interpretation of Japanese. As bad as you rag on the live action adaptations, they're still infinitely better than the Japanese live action adaptations.

I have nothing to add to the documentary since i haven't seen it or have ever been interested in doing so. I don't find any documentary on any niche thing to be fruitful or faithful when it's not handled by people inside the industry.

Anime is a business, that is true for 99% of studios and streaming services in and outside of Japan. Have you forgotten about the working conditions and culture at most studios? The anime industry doesn't care about the anime industry, it's not fair or completely disingenuous that you single out Netflix. Also you fail to realize Netflix is playing a bigger game than the niche anime community, when it's own audience is larger than the entire population of Japan. All in all, Netflix is doing amazing things by exposing more people to the industry on a scale not even close to what anybody else has ever done and probably wont for a very long time. What they're doing is good.

Edit:
Masutado said:


I will admit there are certainly exceptions, Devilman Crybaby and Violet Evergarden are 2 that come to mind, but they also seem to be shows that Netflix had the least amount of presense in.
As for this, that's mostly what they do. Just license things, that's all.

Masutado said:


Yea, I'm aware, but like you said, the vast majority don't realize this stuff, or at least do and just don't care. I only made this post in a vain attempt to get the word out y'know, it's all you really can do.
In this case, you are in the minority.


Wow, you certainly do make good points. I completely underestimated just how big Netflix is compared to Crunchyroll, that's just nuts. What you said does serve my argument in a way, however. When you look at just how massive Netflix really is, I find it frankly ridiculous that they couldn't spare enough money to at least make a faithful redub/resub for Eva and buy the rights for FMTTM. Yes it would've been a bigger commitment, but from the beginning they were making the whole thing out to be a grand delivery to the long awaiting fans, so dealing with it so poorly ended up annoying fans even more. I understand putting so much faith into a corporate giant to do fans right is pointless, but it just so infuriating to see. The same thing could also be said about pushing the binging model over just simulcasting, it's cheaper for the company, but a lot more annoying for the viewers and inevitably will push many to pirate.
 
Aug 13, 8:06 PM

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syncrogazer said:
Calling that new Evangelion translation both 'too literal' and 'politically correct' at the same time is funny to me. The guy behind it is a Khara translator, like there's no conspiracy to destroy the script. If they really wanted to do that they'd have hired some nobody.

But other people have already said it, it's all about the money. Netflix anime fans are a customer base all of their own, so they're catered to in a way that will make Netflix money. But I hear their losing customers in general, so who knows if any of the weird shit they do actually makes any sense.


I'm not really sure what's in Evangelion that could be "politically correct" and that's coming from me.
 
Aug 13, 8:06 PM

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Lunilah said:
@Maenads, They pay top dollar for licensing, i don't know about contracted work. Also it's not like the studios redistribute the money, they don't care about paying their workers.


Do they though? I can't find anything that really says how much they are paying for licensing. The only thing I can see is a few people talking about Devilman Crybaby and how it went into production before netflix picked up the licensing rights. To me this would suggest that even if they paid top dollar, it would have little effect on the creation of the show.
 
Aug 13, 8:09 PM
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Lunilah said:
They cancel shows people don't care about, because they operate on a loss.


They've made several comments about how their algorithm tells them long series or lots of episodes are intimidating and three seasons is the ideal length. They've just posted their first subscriber loss in a while and I can't help but think I'm not the only one salty they cut short several shows I like.
 
Aug 13, 8:11 PM
Slumber

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Masutado said:
Lunilah said:
The difference here is; Crunchyroll just broke 2 million subscribers i think, while Netflix has 140 million.

As for Netflix's binging philosophy, it's also probably cheaper to have exclusive rights after it's fully aired, i just assume that to be the case. Also you have to understand, the 2 million subscribers of Crunchyroll who get simulcasts is completely dwarfed by the 140 million of people who have been enjoying binge culture, their desires out weigh yours. I prefer simulcasts, but instead i'll just pirate, not really a big deal but it's not hurting the industry exposing their audience to anime it's a great thing. They also tried simulcasting already and probably deemed it unsuccessful for it's viewerbase, because Violet Evergarden was in fact week to week. It was the most popular anime airing at the time, but for the Netflix audience it probably did poorly in comparison.

As for NGE, that is not Netflix's fault on the dub, NGE has been in literal licensing hell for over a decade and it was likely cheaper to just redub it. It must have already cost a fortune to even get NGE in the first place, they couldn't even afford the rights to the ending song. As for the subtitles, they aren't the only ones as all translations are subject to the translators interpretation of Japanese. As bad as you rag on the live action adaptations, they're still infinitely better than the Japanese live action adaptations.

I have nothing to add to the documentary since i haven't seen it or have ever been interested in doing so. I don't find any documentary on any niche thing to be fruitful or faithful when it's not handled by people inside the industry.

Anime is a business, that is true for 99% of studios and streaming services in and outside of Japan. Have you forgotten about the working conditions and culture at most studios? The anime industry doesn't care about the anime industry, it's not fair or completely disingenuous that you single out Netflix. Also you fail to realize Netflix is playing a bigger game than the niche anime community, when it's own audience is larger than the entire population of Japan. All in all, Netflix is doing amazing things by exposing more people to the industry on a scale not even close to what anybody else has ever done and probably wont for a very long time. What they're doing is good.

Edit:
As for this, that's mostly what they do. Just license things, that's all.

In this case, you are in the minority.


Wow, you certainly do make good points. I completely underestimated just how big Netflix is compared to Crunchyroll, that's just nuts. What you said does serve my argument in a way, however. When you look at just how massive Netflix really is, I find it frankly ridiculous that they couldn't spare enough money to at least make a faithful redub/resub for Eva and buy the rights for FMTTM. Yes it would've been a bigger commitment, but from the beginning they were making the whole thing out to be a grand delivery to the long awaiting fans, so dealing with it so poorly ended up annoying fans even more. I understand putting so much faith into a corporate giant to do fans right is pointless, but it just so infuriating to see. The same thing could also be said about pushing the binging model over just simulcasting, it's cheaper for the company, but a lot more annoying for the viewers and inevitably will push many to pirate.
Ever since Netflix had to pull like 5 different shows because they've all been operating on a loss, i think the most notorious one was Sense 8, they haven't allowed themselves the same freedom to just throw money at everything to see if it sticks. It was, and mostly still is a barely tested medium for them, otherwise they would run both Crunchyroll and Funimation dry potentially, unless both their parent companies actually did something (AT&T/Sony).

It's marketed for fans yes, because the goal is to amalgamate their own audience with the existing fandom of anime. While the binge model is an absolute tried and true formula for how they even got 140m subscribers, it's not like they didn't try simulcasting, it just clearly wasn't as fruitful because Carole & Tuesday didn't share the same week to week release as VE. Both of which are from top tier studios; Bones & KyoAni.

It will push anime fans to pirate more, but i think that's inevitable due to the myriad of streaming services that are trying to compete with Netflix, it's why they're losing so many shows. Try to put this into perspective: Vrv, Crunchyroll, Funimation, HBO, Hulu, PrimeVideo, DCU, Disney+, Even more from AT&T (Warner Media), NBC Universal. All streaming services that will be streaming EXCLUSIVE content. Plex stocks are going up (if you don't know Plex you need to).



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whether you make it or not.
 
Aug 13, 8:12 PM

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Isn't making Shinji less gay the opposite of political correctness lol. FTMM wasn't "removed", they didn't get their hands on it for financial reasons. Subbing was done by some Japanese guy and I agree with his responses. I never saw Shinji x Kawaru as gay, he was screen for so short it's insignificant anyway.

Don't really see what the big deal is with anime adaptations, they are made by Japanese studios not Netflix themselves. Japan is just as responsible with all their garbage adaptations and live actions. You're not forced to watched any of it

Only big offense is not simulcasting, while I don't care that much about seasonal hype and watching weekly, it's culture for anime fans all over the world. People who want to binge will wait to do so, I don't get their choice to do

I only use Netflix because my parents pay for it anyway. They don't understand the freedom of piracy, pretty nice streaming service with a lot of good series and movies though. Easy to download stuff on my phone/tablet to watch stuff when not having a laptop with me. Usable on PS4
Modified by Esquirtit, Aug 13, 8:16 PM
 
Aug 13, 8:12 PM
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Ryuk9428 said:
syncrogazer said:
Calling that new Evangelion translation both 'too literal' and 'politically correct' at the same time is funny to me. The guy behind it is a Khara translator, like there's no conspiracy to destroy the script. If they really wanted to do that they'd have hired some nobody.

But other people have already said it, it's all about the money. Netflix anime fans are a customer base all of their own, so they're catered to in a way that will make Netflix money. But I hear their losing customers in general, so who knows if any of the weird shit they do actually makes any sense.


I'm not really sure what's in Evangelion that could be "politically correct" and that's coming from me.


Politically correct was a very poor choice of words on my part. I was thinking of the Kaworu and Shinji scenes and how their new translations kind of stripped their interactions of emotion, at least when compared to the original subs. Should've just stuck with literal.
 
Aug 13, 8:19 PM
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Maenads said:
Lunilah said:
@Maenads, They pay top dollar for licensing, i don't know about contracted work. Also it's not like the studios redistribute the money, they don't care about paying their workers.


Do they though? I can't find anything that really says how much they are paying for licensing. The only thing I can see is a few people talking about Devilman Crybaby and how it went into production before netflix picked up the licensing rights. To me this would suggest that even if they paid top dollar, it would have little effect on the creation of the show.
Almost all licensing has little effect on the creation of a show. The only thing that would is if Netflix was on an anime committee like what Crunchyroll does, or contracted something specifically from a studio like they are for the GITS:SAC sequel and Blade Runner anime. As for paying top dollar, it's just deduction since they aren't fully into the medium or are exclusively about it, they pick and choose what they want from things that are available. I assume CR has a much better position to negotiate from with MHA for example than Netflix, which is why they haven't lost it.

_Ridley_ said:
Lunilah said:
They cancel shows people don't care about, because they operate on a loss.


They've made several comments about how their algorithm tells them long series or lots of episodes are intimidating and three seasons is the ideal length. They've just posted their first subscriber loss in a while and I can't help but think I'm not the only one salty they cut short several shows I like.
I don't know what shows you're talking about, but if it's not the many that operated on a loss for them, this might provide insight. Article from Forbes.



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whether you make it or not.
 
Aug 13, 8:22 PM
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Lunilah said:
Masutado said:


Wow, you certainly do make good points. I completely underestimated just how big Netflix is compared to Crunchyroll, that's just nuts. What you said does serve my argument in a way, however. When you look at just how massive Netflix really is, I find it frankly ridiculous that they couldn't spare enough money to at least make a faithful redub/resub for Eva and buy the rights for FMTTM. Yes it would've been a bigger commitment, but from the beginning they were making the whole thing out to be a grand delivery to the long awaiting fans, so dealing with it so poorly ended up annoying fans even more. I understand putting so much faith into a corporate giant to do fans right is pointless, but it just so infuriating to see. The same thing could also be said about pushing the binging model over just simulcasting, it's cheaper for the company, but a lot more annoying for the viewers and inevitably will push many to pirate.
Ever since Netflix had to pull like 5 different shows because they've all been operating on a loss, i think the most notorious one was Sense 8, they haven't allowed themselves the same freedom to just throw money at everything to see if it sticks. It was, and mostly still is a barely tested medium for them, otherwise they would run both Crunchyroll and Funimation dry potentially, unless both their parent companies actually did something (AT&T/Sony).

It's marketed for fans yes, because the goal is to amalgamate their own audience with the existing fandom of anime. While the binge model is an absolute tried and true formula for how they even got 140m subscribers, it's not like they didn't try simulcasting, it just clearly wasn't as fruitful because Carole & Tuesday didn't share the same week to week release as VE. Both of which are from top tier studios; Bones & KyoAni.

It will push anime fans to pirate more, but i think that's inevitable due to the myriad of streaming services that are trying to compete with Netflix, it's why they're losing so many shows. Try to put this into perspective: Vrv, Crunchyroll, Funimation, HBO, Hulu, PrimeVideo, DCU, Disney+, Even more from AT&T (Warner Media), NBC Universal. All streaming services that will be streaming EXCLUSIVE content. Plex stocks are going up (if you don't know Plex you need to).


I have heard of Plex, havent really given it any attention though. If I wanna watch an anime (that's all the Tv I watch really) and it's not on Vrv or Hulu, I pirate, simple as that. Its quite funny that cable becomes increasingly obsolete in the face of online streaming services, and immediatly the streaming services grab any exclusives they can find, and boom, it's cable all over again.
 
Aug 13, 8:24 PM

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Unpopular opinion here:

Netflix is dishing big bucks to license old anime and is even producing original shows. I don't know exactly how much the studios get for these licenses, but anything helps in an industry where most companies and their employees are constantly struggling to make ends meet. More money going to animation studios translates into better working conditions and higher quality for their future projects.

What I mean with all this is that Netflix doesn't have to care about Japan or the anime comunity to make a positive difference. Them wanting money and investing on anime is enough. That's capitalism folks. Their streaming model might suck and all that, but we're definetely better off with them. Besides, it's not like we have that many options for legal streaming where I live. It's either Netflix, Crunchyroll or pirating.
 
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
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Masutado said:
Lunilah said:
Ever since Netflix had to pull like 5 different shows because they've all been operating on a loss, i think the most notorious one was Sense 8, they haven't allowed themselves the same freedom to just throw money at everything to see if it sticks. It was, and mostly still is a barely tested medium for them, otherwise they would run both Crunchyroll and Funimation dry potentially, unless both their parent companies actually did something (AT&T/Sony).

It's marketed for fans yes, because the goal is to amalgamate their own audience with the existing fandom of anime. While the binge model is an absolute tried and true formula for how they even got 140m subscribers, it's not like they didn't try simulcasting, it just clearly wasn't as fruitful because Carole & Tuesday didn't share the same week to week release as VE. Both of which are from top tier studios; Bones & KyoAni.

It will push anime fans to pirate more, but i think that's inevitable due to the myriad of streaming services that are trying to compete with Netflix, it's why they're losing so many shows. Try to put this into perspective: Vrv, Crunchyroll, Funimation, HBO, Hulu, PrimeVideo, DCU, Disney+, Even more from AT&T (Warner Media), NBC Universal. All streaming services that will be streaming EXCLUSIVE content. Plex stocks are going up (if you don't know Plex you need to).


I have heard of Plex, havent really given it any attention though. If I wanna watch an anime (that's all the Tv I watch really) and it's not on Vrv or Hulu, I pirate, simple as that. Its quite funny that cable becomes increasingly obsolete in the face of online streaming services, and immediatly the streaming services grab any exclusives they can find, and boom, it's cable all over again.
That is where things are headed, which started with Vrv and now Disney+ as they're offering a package that includes Disney+, ESPN, and Hulu.
Disney+ at $6.99 plus Hulu (with ads) at $5.99 a month is only a penny less than this bundle at $12.99 a month. This is a disservice to us folks who have no interest in ESPN+

Plex is something you can setup automatically with what you torrent so you don't have to lift a finger, especially when you set up auto tracking for torrents that download for you within specific parameters you set for it, think of it as a pirate's Netflix.
Edit: I should also note that it works on all devices, only needing to download the app on other devices.
Modified by Lunilah, Aug 13, 8:34 PM



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whether you make it or not.
 
Aug 13, 8:32 PM

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Masutado said:
how their new translations kind of stripped their interactions of emotion, at least when compared to the original subs.

Now, I've only seen screenshots of the new subs, but I don't really buy this. It seems to me that fans are just mad that the intensity in which they can connect their (long held) interpretations to their relationship is lessened. I don't think it changes much of anything really in terms of meaning.
 
Aug 13, 9:02 PM
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syncrogazer said:
Masutado said:
how their new translations kind of stripped their interactions of emotion, at least when compared to the original subs.

Now, I've only seen screenshots of the new subs, but I don't really buy this. It seems to me that fans are just mad that the intensity in which they can connect their (long held) interpretations to their relationship is lessened. I don't think it changes much of anything really in terms of meaning.


Like and love are 2 entirely different feelings, and emotions are more complicated than just literal meaning, they are baked into dialogue in subtle ways. Yes, in the end you will still see the same story with the new translation, but you will not have the same interpretations of the characters' emotions and relationships. The Kaworu scenes are absolutely blander.
 
Aug 13, 9:18 PM

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I mean I've HEARD how badly the new EVA dub sucks and when a classic, (possibly most beloved mecha) series in history is handled poorly like that, that's enough reason to hate Netflix, imho.

And I'm just a casual EVA fan; I can only imagine how the ones who've worshiped it since the late 90s feel....



 
Aug 13, 9:24 PM
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Chiibi said:
I mean I've HEARD how badly the new EVA dub sucks and when a classic, (possibly most beloved mecha) series in history is handled poorly like that, that's enough reason to hate Netflix, imho.

And I'm just a casual EVA fan; I can only imagine how the ones who've worshiped it since the late 90s feel....


I only watched Eva for the first time subbed a year ago, and after checking out the dub, I can say it was without a doubt flawed, but it definetly had a charm to it, and the voice actors actually did pretty great in soms of the more intense scenes. The Netflix redub is, as I said, consistent, but overall feels very bland and lifeless, and none of the strong emotional scenes have the same impact to them. Sub is definetly superior to both though.
 
Aug 13, 10:20 PM

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My main beef with them is picking up season 2 of Saiki Kusuo and not getting Funimation to dub it. Do they know how difficult it is to read the lightning speed Saiki subs? Who picks up a show from season 2 anyway? Losers.
 
Aug 13, 10:31 PM

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I'll say 10% of netfix's advertised shows are good. The rest, some are enjoyable, some are flat out bad. At least they don't make baki CGI
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Aug 13, 10:37 PM

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Honestly, the more american companies invest, the more they get on production comitees and the less anime will be anime. I.e (Castlevania).
 
Aug 13, 10:57 PM

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I really hate how badly the documentary tries to convince the viewer that anime is "cool" and "not for kids you guys, I swear, check out all this badass gore and all this crazy screaming and shit." I promise the only reason the annoying narrator lady insists on creators being "deranged" is cause Netflix wants to convince the general public (adults) that animation isn't an inherently childish medium. Which it isn't but...

A few problems.

A) This implies to newcomers that ALL anime is dark, gritty and edgy. Something which just isn't true. There are definitely dark, violent, heavy shows out there. And of course, an anime can be both fantastic and "edgy." But this is a piss poor way to present the entire damn medium. Anime, like any other medium, is full of variety in everything from genre to demographic. The documentary is purposely disingenuous about what all anime is.

B) This pushes the narrative that all children's entertainment is bad. When honestly, some of my favorite animated works were aimed at children. And I'm sure many here feel the same way. Last Airbender? Adventure Time? Hell I just got done watching Infinity Train and that was pretty damn good. Yet another great mini series from CN, been wanting another since Over the Garden Wall. And let's not forget how popular certain children's anime are with older audiences. I'm sure a die hard Precure fan wouldn't take very kindly to the idea that anything created for younger viewers is automatically terrible.

C) By not shining the spotlight on anything other than what they want others to think anime is, they're doing a disservice to how amazing shows from other genres can be. It's not fair to anything that doesn't fit what Netflix wants casual fans to think anime is like.

There's a lot to be pissed about when it comes to that documentary, but this was my own personal bone to pick with it.
 
Aug 13, 11:09 PM

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The anime industry operates with the intent of making money. A lot of the titles Netflix streams are or were on other anime-centric streaming sites, true, but their presence on Netflix makes it much more likely that "normies" will discover them and potentially seek out other anime as well. The licensing money that Japanese companies get from Netflix is worth a lot more than the "exposure" they get from bootleg streaming sites, that's for sure.

I can understand frustration over NF's lack of simulcasting, and don't blame people for pirating them during the JP broadcasts, as that is a genuine "service problem." At the same time, let's not pretend that a substantial majority of the audiences for LWA, Violet Evergarden, etc. weren't just going to pirate them anyway, even if they were simulcasted.

Masutado said:
Netflix's second offense would be their generally out-of-touch relationship with and blatant disregard for the anime community. It was honestly pretty exciting seeing Netflix pick up Evangelion at first. They finally broke a several decade long curse of having almost no legal ways to enjoy the show, and after tons of positive feedback, it was clear they could redeem themselves of past transgressions by simply making Evangelion streamable. They still messed it up though, and pretty badly too. After being begged to bring back the original dub, Netflix still proceeded to make a new dub which, although undoubtedly more consistent, lacks any charm or character. They redid the subtitles into a more literal, politically correct version that ruins many emotional scenes and spits in the face of anybody who worked on the original script. They even removed FMTTM, which is an objectively crucial part of the Evangelion experience, which shows how little they really cared about the project to begin with, and Evangelion's only one of many instances of Netflix disrespecting and flat out ignoring the anime community.
Evangelion's last US release was in 2008 -- a little more than one decade, but hardly "decades." It's funny, anime viewers are always complaining about companies taking liberties and changing things in the Japanese script. Then Netflix comes along with a more faithful NGE localization, and everyone's all "We want our late 1990s liberal translations back!!" It's possible that ADV and Manga had retained the rights to those old dubs, as contracts were done differently back then, and those dubs might not have reverted to Gainax/khara after the licenses expired. But it's also likely that khara wanted to throw the old version out and start again fresh. Either way, the new dubs and subs on Netflix were created by or heavily supervised by Studio khara themselves, much like the way Rebuild 3 was supervised to the point that Funimation had to redo the dub/subs and delay the release. If you don't like the changes, blame khara. I mean, what was Netflix supposed to do, disrespect and flat-out ignore the wishes of NGE's creators?

As for Fly Me to the Moon, apparently it was sacrificed on the altar of global accessibility. If NF had done a more limited, region-locked release of Evangelion, perhaps the rights would've been affordable. It's up to them to decide if the revenue from fringe regions is enough to offset any losses incurred by not including FMTTM. They were already spending a presumably astronomical amount to license NGE in the first place. Sspending even more for a song that, let's be honest, a large portion of viewers is going to skip anyway, might have made the whole process of licensing/streaming NGE into a money-losing endeavor.
"You're encouraging the idea of personal gain without paying a price, working hard, or expending effort? Have you no shame? When you refuse to make sacrifices, others end up making them for you!" -- Medaka Kurokami
 
Aug 13, 11:46 PM

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Regarding LWA delay, wasn't it also due to the time it took to dub it in multiple languages? Over 8 I think. Few months delay is usually the case for a new series

Also subs for Viole(n) t Evergarden were not as good. Asenshi offered more accurate subs.
 
Aug 13, 11:56 PM

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Their non-anime original content also tends to be mostly crap apart from a few exceptions. I find it better to shill a couple of dollars for the blu ray or just torrent the thing. I feel the subscription is only worth it for some foreign historical movies that I would never have had the chance to see otherwise.
Ok I'm dumb I haven't done this since playfire was a thing so I do not know what to write in here.
 
Aug 14, 6:40 AM
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I mean why the fuck do you expect companies to 'care' in an emotional sense? That's just so random. Are you living in a dream world? Of course they don't. They aren't here to make the world a better place or cater to the anime community, they're here to provide entertainment and make money. You think Japan cares about the 'community' in any sense other than monetary? I promise you they don't.

Netflix got some anime made that might not have been made otherwise, and as long as I'm enjoying some of them (which I definitely do) that's all I need from Netflix. Anything else is just pointless whining because you think corporations are supposed to 'care' about random things just because you care about them. It has nothing to do with Netflix in particular.

And as a community that mostly pirates I just don't buy that the lack of simulcasting is a big issue. It sure isn't for me.

Yes, Enter the Anime was a disgraceful cringe-fest and I have no idea why they would leave the task to someone who has no idea what anime is. I do know why they are just advertising their own stuff, but in either case it's garbage and should be treated as such. Still, so what? I still enjoy Devilman, Baki, 7Seeds and a couple of other shows they made and in the end that's all that matters. I never expected Netflix to randomly 'save' anime or its community or whatever you think they are supposed to do. All I expect is for them to produce some anime and for me to like some of them, like any other anime producer

Also anime is just a smalll portion of Netflix, and I wouldn't subscribe to them just for their anime. If you don't care about 90% of their catalogue, then yes, it's probably not worth it to subscribe. But I explore a lot of their other stuff as well and that alone makes it worth it. Their anime offerings are just a bonus, something I don't have to pirate since I'm already subscribed to Netflix for other reasons. If you're gonna judge the whole company based on just their anime catalogue, that's your problem.

Listen, everybody wants change, don't nobody want to change though
don't nobody want to pray, till they got something to pray for
now everybody's gonna die, but don't everybody live though
 
Aug 14, 6:47 AM
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yes they're bad
i hope they'll actually support the anime industry but i think it rly isnt going to happen :(

although netflix isnt the place to watch anime lol. there r great western tv shows there so I won't rly complain
have a great day everyone
:)
 
Aug 14, 6:48 AM

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Meh, my only beef with Netflix are its eye straining subtitles. Seriously, just use normal subtitles like normal human beings.
 
Aug 14, 10:12 AM

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Masutado said:
Chiibi said:
I mean I've HEARD how badly the new EVA dub sucks and when a classic, (possibly most beloved mecha) series in history is handled poorly like that, that's enough reason to hate Netflix, imho.

And I'm just a casual EVA fan; I can only imagine how the ones who've worshiped it since the late 90s feel....


I only watched Eva for the first time subbed a year ago, and after checking out the dub, I can say it was without a doubt flawed, but it definetly had a charm to it, and the voice actors actually did pretty great in soms of the more intense scenes. The Netflix redub is, as I said, consistent, but overall feels very bland and lifeless, and none of the strong emotional scenes have the same impact to them. Sub is definetly superior to both though.


Right?
For newer fans who may not know Eva's history with the USA....

The first dub of EVA was by A.D.V. Films. Yep, they were not flawless...but they cared. Every single one of them cared a lot because they were all huge anime nerds like us. Matt Greenfield (the director and head honcho especially)

ADV was one of the earliest companies to bring UNCUT anime to US shores and their releases were all available to rent at video stores. So for a lot of us who were kids and teens in the late 90s, Evangelion was our intro to this surreal world outside of broadcast television that butchered everything on Toonami "because cartoons are for little children".

*makes gagging noise*

Um...so that is why EVA is particularly special to the West. It was also many a fan's first Studio Gainax title as well.

I will never forget the first time I sat down on the floor in front of my downstairs TV, put the rented EVA tape into our VCR, and Cruel Angel's Thesis started up. I was blown away.
Modified by Chiibi, Aug 14, 10:16 AM



 
Aug 14, 1:34 PM

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I need to atch Enter the Anime just to heard, if it is true. Also, don't you think the documentary's fault was mainly from the ones who made it, who aren't Netflix? Netflix just put the money.

Also, the only bad thing about how they broadcasted Little Witch Academia was that because of it the show didn't have the impact it could have. To be honest i was glad seeing all those entitled seasonal watchers accostumed to simulcast bitch and complain.

Then the EVA dub. Well, an english EVA dub that sucks, what a surprise, only this time we don't have Spike Spencer's annoying voice as Shinji.

@Chiibi if ADV Films actually cared they wouldn't cast Spike Spencer as Shinji.
 
Aug 14, 2:18 PM

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Wavey_Nooby said:
Literally only watched Seven Deadly sins and Devilman Crybaby on Netflix. Oh and Baki(before i realized they only put out half of the english dub on there). Netflix is garbage for watching anime. Kissanime is the only option for me, or crunchyroll with adblock and a custom video player extension on it. If a show comes out on Netflix that I am interested in I'll even use my moms account or just watch it on a free movie streaming website.


You can't really call Netflix trash then proceed to praise KissAnime.
KA is, possibly, the single worst anime site in existance. All it has is quantity. No quality of service, whatsoever.

At least torrent the damn shows...
1 hour = 10,000 yen.
2 hours = 20,000 yen.
3 hours = 3 loaves of French bread.
4 hours = 4 loaves of French bread.
 
Aug 14, 2:29 PM
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Hey_Taka-tin_Hey said:
Wavey_Nooby said:
Literally only watched Seven Deadly sins and Devilman Crybaby on Netflix. Oh and Baki(before i realized they only put out half of the english dub on there). Netflix is garbage for watching anime. Kissanime is the only option for me, or crunchyroll with adblock and a custom video player extension on it. If a show comes out on Netflix that I am interested in I'll even use my moms account or just watch it on a free movie streaming website.


You can't really call Netflix trash then proceed to praise KissAnime.
KA is, possibly, the single worst anime site in existance. All it has is quantity. No quality of service, whatsoever.

At least torrent the damn shows...
Kissanime isn't perfect by any means. But as long as you have a good adblocker and know what servers to use it's perfect. I can find literally any anime I want on there regardless of the publisher or IP holder. Torrenting movies and shows is not worth the trouble considering the legal ramifications involved. What if I wanted to download the entire Dragon Ball GT series(trash) via torrent overnight and my VPN stopped working. Low chance but next thing I'll know I'll have Toei or Funimation emailing me about a lawsuit. IMO torrenting files is only good for Old video games that most publishers don't care about anymore.
 
Aug 14, 3:08 PM

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Wavey_Nooby said:
Low chance but next thing I'll know I'll have Toei or Funimation emailing me about a lawsuit. IMO torrenting files is only good for Old video games that most publishers don't care about anymore.

So, kissanime shills are now using fear-mongering to sell their shitty site. funny stuff.
 
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