| Your friend let's say isn't buying it that anime is the shit, but he'll give you one clip to sell him on the medium. Whether it be a fight, a scene, a particular joke or moment, what do you choose? |
Immahnoob said: They say Jesus walked on water. People are made out of 79% water. I can walk on people. So I am 79% Jesus. Sourire said: I once fucked an apple pie. |
| Usually the people i encounter who are against anime have the idea that it's kiddish and not serious, so if this person is like that i would probably give them a serious in tone and graphic torture scene as they're prime "moments" to establish theme without context. The same with serious and graphic action scenes. Specific clips i can't think of off the top of my head. |
 I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
Lunilah said: Usually the people i encounter who are against anime have the idea that it's kiddish and not serious, so if this person is like that i would probably give them a serious in tone and graphic torture scene as they're prime "moments" to establish theme without context. Love how the opposite of 'kiddish' is extreme violence to so many people. Like who are we dealing with here, literal teenagers? This is my pick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwy1whkl9rk |
syncrogazer said: Yes, the opposite of childish would be something that is for mature audiences, especially when it's someone who thinks anime is only for children. When we're talking about single clips to establish tone and theme without context (because that's what singular clips are, devoid of context), serious in tone action or horror scenes are a perfect fit, unlike something emotional which requires build up to establish context on why something like that would make someone feel anything when watching it.Lunilah said: Usually the people i encounter who are against anime have the idea that it's kiddish and not serious, so if this person is like that i would probably give them a serious in tone and graphic torture scene as they're prime "moments" to establish theme without context. Love how the opposite of 'kiddish' is extreme violence to so many people. Like who are we dealing with here, literal teenagers? This is my pick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwy1whkl9rk |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| In seriousness, Levi's slaughter of the titan who killed his friends in SnK OVA. Or Levi's most recent rampage in SnK S3 In cuteness, when Hina pushes everyone off the rope in Barakamon syncrogazer said: Lunilah said: Usually the people i encounter who are against anime have the idea that it's kiddish and not serious, so if this person is like that i would probably give them a serious in tone and graphic torture scene as they're prime "moments" to establish theme without context. Love how the opposite of 'kiddish' is extreme violence to so many people. Like who are we dealing with here, literal teenagers? This is my pick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwy1whkl9rk ye didn't u know the only dark thing is obviously violence duhhh |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
Lunilah said: Yes, the opposite of childish would be something that is for mature audiences, especially when it's someone who thinks anime is only for children I mean, maybe, if you're showing this stuff to someone's middle aged mom. But do you really think anyone with even a shred of self-awareness is going to change their mind when you show them 'ow the edge' instead? I don't really think an out of context, animated, torture scene is an indicator of mature, grown-up taste. In general I have a huge problem with people defining 'maturity' in media based on how many regulatory bodies would put a disclaimer on it. |
syncrogazer said: Yes, i've done it with an anime as a whole rather than a clip, specifically Tokyo Ghoul. It's not about what people define as 'edge' since so many people have different definitions and it's overused so much that it's meaning is lost. It's like recommending something, not everyone is going to like everything, you have to cater to them. It's why i prefaced my post the way i did.Lunilah said: Yes, the opposite of childish would be something that is for mature audiences, especially when it's someone who thinks anime is only for children I mean, maybe, if you're showing this stuff to someone's middle aged mom. But do you really think anyone with even a shred of self-awareness is going to change their mind when you show them 'ow the edge' instead? I don't really think an out of context, animated, torture scene is an indicator of mature, grown-up taste. In general I have a huge problem with people defining 'maturity' in media based on how many regulatory bodies would put a disclaimer on it. Ok. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| This happened kind of accidentally, but my friend asked me what video I was watching and I sent her the clip... Within minutes she was already getting into anime despite rarely watching any... The reason for this? She started shipping the characters on the clip so hard that she just had to watch more... And read a mountain of fanfiction about them! The power of shipping is scary... The video she saw was this one. You gotta find your own subs though. Now if only the anime version wasn't so sleep inducingly boring... KuroFai is a great ship though. |
Lunilah said: It's not about what people define as 'edge' since so many people have different definitions and it's overused so much that it's meaning is lost. Nah, this just sounds like an excuse. |
syncrogazer said: What's it supposed to be an excuse for exactly?Lunilah said: It's not about what people define as 'edge' since so many people have different definitions and it's overused so much that it's meaning is lost. Nah, this just sounds like an excuse. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
Lunilah said: What's it supposed to be an excuse for exactly? Do I really have to answer this question when you say something like ackchtually edge is in the eye of the beholder? What else is that, but a way to ignore my point that random violence is not a good way to prove the 'maturity' of anime to anyone with an actual brain. |
| I don't know guess this could be cool if they willing to read subs |
 |
syncrogazer said: Not only have i laid out specific parameters for you that give reason for recommending the suggested clips, but you only quote parts of all of my messages and choose to hang on them instead of my point yet i'm somehow the person who is ignoring points. I said that about edge because i haven't got the faintest clue to what the hell you define edge as, i've had numerous conversations with people who all have different ideas of what it means to them, but despite that i specifically articulated how when recommending clips to someone is something you have to cater to them as with everything else since they might not like or care what you show them.Lunilah said: What's it supposed to be an excuse for exactly? Do I really have to answer this question when you say something like ackchtually edge is in the eye of the beholder? What else is that, but a way to ignore my point that random violence is not a good way to prove the 'maturity' of anime to anyone with an actual brain. If your whole point about graphic violence being for mature audiences only is a silly notion because it's something regulatory bodies decide on and you have a problem with that, it's not a point of contention. I don't care what you believe, i'm not here to argue beliefs. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| Hououin Kyouma persuades anyone El Psy Congroo |
| These, depending on the person. Boros vs Saitama is good, too. I almost forgot: anything from Redline..... :' ) Okay, so it's not just one...... :' ) |
| "Genki is Life, Genki is Love" |
Can't go wrong with this one |
 "I want to show that woman the true Yoshikage Kira. I want her to hear how I feel deep inside. That I want to take your slender neck into these hands and strangle you to death." |
| Shinobu bath scene. If they get uncomfortable they're too normie. More seriously though... I don't know, it would depend on the person but the opening race of Redline is something I think almost anyone could get a kick out of. Pylia said: Although my decision might differ depending on the context, one of the highest priority scenes is probably this one from Kizumonogatari Hah! I was thinking of Kizu myself but the scene where Araragi meets Kiss-shot in Kizu 1 or the fight scene in Kizu 2. |
| “In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.” -Friedrich Nietzsche Aggregate scoring is bad for the anime fandom |
Lunilah said: I don't care what you believe, i'm not here to argue beliefs. This is what I define as edge. Holy fuck. I don't do internet arguments, dude, I do conversations. If you really want to have an epic internet debate don't try it with me, especially if you're going to interpret everything I say, an aside or otherwise, as just another epic bullet point to be struck down in my 'argument.' (and if you're going to do that, improve your reading comprehension first because way to completely miss the fucking point) Throughout this conversation I've tried to make light of this shit, because the topic of anime being 'for kids' is really only something kids worry about. I mean, if you want to really shut people up just show them hentai because at this point only the extreme is going to make an impact. But outside of this, and assuming that you actually want people to give anime a try rather than shock them with edge: there are plenty of people who would otherwise be interested in some anime, but avoid it because of unfortunate assumptions. My whole point in all of this is that if someone believes anime is only for immature people, showing them random torture seems like the most immature reactionary thing to do. Seriousness and maturity goes way beyond violence and 'dark themes xD,' or whatever else you can think of to counter this idea of 'kiddish' you have in your mind. I also think it's obvious that maturity doesn't just stop at 'serious.' Show someone an artistic or unique anime opening, no matter the tone, and most likely they'll see something they've never seen before in a 'children's cartoon' or whatever. It shouldn't take decapitation to convince someone that anime can be more than Japanese Spongebob. But fuck it, anyone who is afraid of watching something that might be a little immature, or god forbid actually for children, should probably not watch anime ever. Also, I can edit my quotes however I want, it hasn't changed anything that I've said regarding what you've said. |
syncrogazerJun 16, 2019 6:01 PM
| I'll show them this clip it should get some people interested... |
 |
| Any scene from Ping Pong, but I would say the Peco vs Wenge fight specifically. |
Obviously it's the only way to go, 1000%. |
STOP SLEEPING ON ODD TAXI |
| Well I have shown 3 of my friends the Monogatari toothbrush scene (they don't really watch anime too much) and they liked it enough to start watching the series. |
| Roy Mustang Destroying Envy Any scene with Jotaro in it Any Scene from Space Dandy That takes place in Dandy's favorite restaurant, Boobies Any time Mob loses his shit in Mob Psycho 100 Meliodas vs Ban When Kazuma first meets Aqua |
syncrogazer said: It seems you misunderstood why i even mentioned me not arguing beliefs and somehow attributed it to what you define as edge because you're just looking through that lens. Let me make things clear; you stated you have a problem with people defining maturity in media based on how many regulatory bodies would put a disclaimer on it. What am i supposed to do with that statement? You didn't make any points or explained why that's the case, unless you want me to make up a position for you and straw-man you? That's why i replied to it with "Ok." the first time. What it sounds like to me is that you're conflating maturity with mature audiences, that you think i think violence and gore are a form of mental and emotional maturity, it's for mature audiences because there's a difference as i'm not going to show that to children.Lunilah said: I don't care what you believe, i'm not here to argue beliefs. This is what I define as edge. Holy fuck. I don't do internet arguments, dude, I do conversations. If you really want to have an epic internet debate don't try it with me, especially if you're going to interpret everything I say, an aside or otherwise, as just another epic bullet point to be struck down in my 'argument.' (and if you're going to do that, improve your reading comprehension) Throughout this conversation I've tried to make light of this shit, because the topic of anime being 'for kids' is really only something kids worry about. I mean, if you want to really shut people up just show them hentai because at this point only the extreme is going to change their minds. So, yeah I get your 'parameters' in this context. But outside of this, and assuming that you actually want people to give anime a try rather than shock them with edge: there are plenty of people who would otherwise be interested in some anime, but avoid it because of unfortunate assumptions. My whole point in all of this is that if someone believes anime is only for immature people, showing them random torture seems like the most immature reactionary thing to do. Seriousness and maturity goes way beyond violence and 'dark themes xD' or whatever else you can think of to counter this idea of 'kiddish' you have in your mind. I also think it's obvious that maturity doesn't just stop at 'serious.' Show someone an artistic or unique anime opening, no matter the tone, and most likely they'll see something they've never seen in a 'children's cartoon' or whatever. It shouldn't take decapitation to convince someone that anime can be more than Japanese Spongebob. But fuck it, anyone who is afraid of watching something that might be a little immature, or god forbid actually for children, should probably not watch anime ever. Also, I can edit my quotes however I want, it hasn't changed anything that I've said regarding what you've said. The topic of anime being for kids is "really only" something kids worry about is silly, it's purely a stance from ignorance or preference and i'm sure we can agree on that. If i wanted to shut them up then i would just show them hentai, but that's not the goal of me or the topic of this thread as that wouldn't be selling them on the medium. This part of your post only works if you operate on the assumption that my go to for every single person is to show them what is essentially torture porn, but that was only 1 of the 3 suggestions i made and i said probably, and as i said later on when i was required to elaborate on what i said that i have to cater to each person specifically which is what you are elaborating on here. The first thing that comes to mind on why you're so overbold about this is because of experiences you probably had with other people, which is ironic since my post is based on my successful experiences but i don't project them on other people. You can edit your quotes however you want but i think it would change what you have to say if you didn't quote selectively, because i think you hang on a specific section you don't like and attribute preconceived notions to me without even asking me if i actually agree with them or not. I don't believe you're straw-manning me but if you don't do arguments and only conversations then you have a funny way of showing it. Edit: A period. |
LunilahJun 16, 2019 6:17 PM
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
Lunilah said: It seems you misunderstood why i even mentioned me not arguing beliefs and somehow attributed it to what you define as edge because you're just looking through that lens. I'm making fun of what you said, if you didn't notice, because it's pretty funny to say that so seriously in a conversation about maturity. you stated you have a problem with people defining maturity in media based on how many regulatory bodies would put a disclaimer on it. What am i supposed to do with that statement? Is there something you want to do with it? I mean, I can't answer that question for you, I was just trying to give some more information about my perspective, and how I was reading your post. But I guess that's not allowed because, beliefs or something? And anyway, you've already paraphrased me twice, I feel like you should get the gist of it by now, it's not a complicated idea, but also not one I ever meant to be taken so literally. What it sounds like to me is that you're conflating maturity with mature audiences, that you think i think violence and gore are a form of mental and emotional maturity No, it seemed like you were conflating them in some way which is why I responded the way I did. it's for mature audiences because there's a difference as i'm not going to show that to children. Now you really are conflating something. What does not wanting to show something to children have to do with anything? The topic of anime being for kids is "really only" something kids worry about is silly I'm talking from the perspective of the anime fan, not the ignorant person. Resorting to 'b-but look at the blood' is a teenager's reaction. If we're not talking about kids here, I'm not sure why violence is the first thing that comes to mind. I mean, kids anime have violence and nudity in them too. And extreme violence can easily be construed as slapstick or mere shock value. Something can be 'kiddish' without literally being marketed to, or made, for kids to watch. This part of your post only works if you operate on the assumption that my go to for every single person is to show them what is essentially torture porn, but that was only 1 of the 3 suggestions i made and i said probably, and as i said later on when i was required to elaborate on what i said that i have to cater to each person specifically Can you also reiterate what the '3 things' are because you were super vague in your first post and I just saw 'violent and serious torture' or 'serious and graphic action.' That's only two, and not going to lie, I don't see that much of a difference between them. And you're going to have to be more clear what you mean by 'serious' because you've used it as a placeholder both times you've tried to explain yourself and I'm not sure what you mean by it. I don't think anime for adults has a monopoly on serious content. Popular shounen series can be pretty violent and take themselves way too seriously, are they now not for kids even though they're totally for kids? Horror, which you mentioned too, might as well be violence, or at least is related to it in a lot of cases. Let me be clear, I'm not assuming anything. I've never strayed from the way you framed the discussion in your very first post (kiddish and not serious). Talking about 'each person specifically' is basically ignoring the very specific things you said which is what I was responding to initially, and is the only thing I can respond to directly. (because I'm not going to respond to the infinite recommendations you'd make to the infinite number of fictional people you could theoretically recommend things to) It's funny, because you keep going on about how I'm (not) strawmanning you and yet you've never responded to anything I've said directly in that post, and you continually refuse to make clear what any of the shit you said actually means. In the end, my point has always been that violence isn't the opposite of kiddish and I'm not going to budge from that because I think it's fairly obvious. I'm not sure if you understand that though because you refuse to engage me in any way that goes deeper than defending your 'position.' Also, I love how you come back like an hour later and still responded to my unedited post. I edited it for a reason. |
| Gotta go with the dog scene from Elfen Lied |
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| Depends. One of my friends likes darker stuff so if something comes out that I think might be to his liking, I recommend it to him. He usually likes my suggestions but I have had him tell me some of the stuff is pure garbage. He's not really an anime watcher but is open to it. Another friend of mine is open to the idea of watching anime, so one time when he came over I showed him the first episode of Mononoke and he fell in love. I've showed him Redline and some ghibli movies, which he liked. I don't think he's sold on anime but if I ever recommend something, he watches it and tells me what he thinks. I don't really think my tastes in what makes an anime great can be easily related to by another person. Something from Eva 2.0 makes me cling onto my chair thinking "now this is epic", but another person might just go "that's a giant robot shooting lasers out of its mouth..." It's hard to place your finger on what clip would work for someone so you need to know what kind of thing they enjoy to be able to show them. Recommendations are always tricky in that regard so consideration needs to be put into them. I would recommend showing a clip from Higurashi of Mion or K1 going crazy to someone who likes violence, something from OPM to someone who likes flashy action, something from Beck to someone who likes slice-of-life, or something from Mononoke to someone who likes aesthetically pleasing shots. So, there is no just one clip. |
I'm also filled with pure-hearted ulterior motives. |
| Its really hard to pick up a scene without spoiling the anime, anyways this is one of my fav scenes of Steins;Gate(no spoilers) watch from 16:23 to 17:44 https://youtu.be/izyNz9yL2Uo?t=983 |
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no context needed and would probably be funny either way even if you aren't into anime |
syncrogazer said: That's a funny way of you making conversation on the internet over text.Lunilah said: It seems you misunderstood why i even mentioned me not arguing beliefs and somehow attributed it to what you define as edge because you're just looking through that lens. I'm making fun of what you said, if you didn't notice, because it's pretty funny to say that so seriously in a conversation about maturity. you stated you have a problem with people defining maturity in media based on how many regulatory bodies would put a disclaimer on it. What am i supposed to do with that statement? Is there something you want to do with it? I mean, I can't answer that question for you, I was just trying to give some more information about my perspective, and how I was reading your post. But I guess that's not allowed because, beliefs or something? And anyway, you've already paraphrased me twice, I feel like you should get the gist of it by now, it's not a complicated idea, but also not one I ever meant to be taken so literally. What it sounds like to me is that you're conflating maturity with mature audiences, that you think i think violence and gore are a form of mental and emotional maturity No, it seemed like you were conflating them in some way which is why I responded the way I did. it's for mature audiences because there's a difference as i'm not going to show that to children. Now you really are conflating something. What does not wanting to show something to children have to do with anything? The topic of anime being for kids is "really only" something kids worry about is silly I'm talking from the perspective of the anime fan, not the ignorant person. Resorting to 'b-but look at the blood' is a teenager's reaction. If we're not talking about kids here, I'm not sure why violence is the first thing that comes to mind. I mean, kids anime have violence and nudity in them too. And extreme violence can easily be construed as slapstick or mere shock value. Something can be 'kiddish' without literally being marketed to, or made, for kids to watch. This part of your post only works if you operate on the assumption that my go to for every single person is to show them what is essentially torture porn, but that was only 1 of the 3 suggestions i made and i said probably, and as i said later on when i was required to elaborate on what i said that i have to cater to each person specifically Can you also reiterate what the '3 things' are because you were super vague in your first post and I just saw 'violent and serious torture' or 'serious and graphic action.' That's only two, and not going to lie, I don't see that much of a difference between them. And you're going to have to be more clear what you mean by 'serious' because you've used it as a placeholder both times you've tried to explain yourself and I'm not sure what you mean by it. I don't think anime for adults has a monopoly on serious content. Popular shounen series can be pretty violent and take themselves way too seriously, are they now not for kids even though they're totally for kids? Horror, which you mentioned too, might as well be violence, or at least is related to it in a lot of cases. Let me be clear, I'm not assuming anything. I've never strayed from the way you framed the discussion in your very first post (kiddish and not serious). Talking about 'each person specifically' is basically ignoring the very specific things you said which is what I was responding to initially, and is the only thing I can respond to directly. (because I'm not going to respond to the infinite recommendations you'd make to the infinite number of fictional people you could theoretically recommend things to) It's funny, because you keep going on about how I'm (not) strawmanning you and yet you've never responded to anything I've said directly in that post, and you continually refuse to make clear what any of the shit you said actually means. In the end, my point has always been that violence isn't the opposite of kiddish and I'm not going to budge from that because I think it's fairly obvious. I'm not sure if you understand that though because you refuse to engage me in any way that goes deeper than defending your 'position.' Also, I love how you come back like an hour later and still responded to my unedited post. I edited it for a reason. is this an argument now? It was a rhetorical question aimed at what you expected to get out of making that statement. I already did what i wanted to do with it, by disregarding it at first with the "Ok." that i mentioned. I don't know what you say i'm conflating. That part is literally just me establishing that "mature audiences" is different from "maturity" as the former is an age categorization for media. Why are you talking about the perspective of an anime fan when the whole point of the topic is to sell someone who isn't an anime fan on the medium? Also i agree on extreme violence, but when i say graphic violence i'm not talking about slapstick stuff more so about rated R themes like blood gore and likely profanity. Most of the people i've encountered who know nothing about the medium think because it's animated that it's for children and not appealing to any of their personal tastes. Serious in tone and graphic torture scene. Graphic action scenes. For "serious" i left intentionally vague because it's much more broad than the others, but it includes tones like politics along the lines of LOGH or psychological like Psycho Pass and/or The Promised Neverland. I don't think seinen has that monopoly either. Yeah shounen can be pretty violent and have a lot of serious themes, i'm not saying having those things precludes them from being suitable to most kids, but the violence in say Hellsing Ultimate, Tokyo Ghoul, and Higurashi do. I'm not asking you to respond to the infinite recommendations i could make, just don't act on the infinite number of preconceived notions you attribute to me without even asking me about and if i'm vague then ask for clarity if you're so into having a conversation, because if i'm not clear then that's my fault. I don't see what's funny about you lecturing me and telling me how it is and expecting me to defend your assertions when they don't apply to me. It's hard to respond to someone when their points about me have nothing to do with me because they would rather jump into contention when i'm trying to de-escalate your misconceptions. I don't disagree with violence isn't the opposite of kiddish, but content intended for mature audiences is (in the context of kiddish being younger audiences) like the 3 previously mentioned examples. Amazing what actual questions can do. Yeah, wow, sorry i wanted to take my time in responding to your angry post and didn't think your edited after 50 minutes escalation of an insult to me was relevant. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| This is obviously the only correct answer: |
 "I am not sure that I exist, actually. I am all the writers that I have read, all the people that I have met, all the women that I have loved; all the cities I have visited." ― Jorge Luis Borges [url=]Goodreads[/url] | [url=]Letterboxd[/url] |
Oh my god, yeeesss. This is it. I watched Golden Boy cause my friend showed me this; so good. |
Can I touch you? Please I love you. Let me touch you, I love you! Friend: How's school? Me: School gave me debt and my plant mold.  |
| that scene between asuka vs mpes in eoe |
   ｡⋆｡˚☽˚｡⋆｡ from the days that i've lived those i had spent with you, seemed real 月光 |
Lunilah said: I don't see what's funny about you lecturing me and telling me how it is and expecting me to defend your assertions when they don't apply to me. I'm not doing this though...Seriously, I'm not trolling or just being an ass with this, I genuinely do not get this notion that I am somehow attributing ideas to you that you do not hold, or strawmanning you, when I quote you directly and ask for you to clarify yourself often. Not every one of my own personal opinions is a direct criticism of something you've said, it's just you know, my opinion. Talking about the 'age-rating' thing really made you angry and for the life of me I don't understand why. It was just a way to describe how a lot of people react to certain content, as well as to illustrate the inherent arbitrariness in this very discussion. Which brings us to: rated R themes Did you say this on purpose just to trigger me? Why are you talking about the perspective of an anime fan when the whole point of the topic is to sell someone who isn't an anime fan on the medium? Because the anime fan (me, you, whomever) is the person the topic is addressed to. And that's the person who is forced to interpret the non-anime fan's assertions and respond to them. I don't disagree with violence isn't the opposite of kiddish, but content intended for mature audiences is So, we're not even that far off, really, it's just going to be a matter of how one defines 'intended for mature audiences.' As an example, I'm currently watching Karakuri Kiden: Hiwou Senki which has the tone of a show for kids, but in 11 episodes I've seen mass murder, political assassination, anti-foreign prejudice, shifting loyalties, death, and revenge and all of this takes place in a Japan which is highly fictionalized but also highly contextualized in terms of real history. I'm purposefully leaving out all of the child nudity in the anime, because cultural differences obviously play a huge factor in this discussion too. Karakuri Kiden is operating on multiple levels, and has quite a bit of challenging content which honestly is nothing new for a kids anime, but none of this precludes it from being enjoyed not only by kids but probably the entire family. In fact it is this depth that allows it to be enjoyed by different audiences at the same time. What's my point here? It's that the way content is handled is going to impact the type of audience that will enjoy it and not its presence alone. Any of the things I've listed could be considered mature content, and it is in a sense, but it all comes down to how these things are packaged and presented. For what it's worth, I think the anime handles its violence with a lot of maturity and it doesn't use it for spectacle or as an aesthetic add-on. I think you'd also agree that just because someone likes Tokyo Ghoul doesn't mean they'll enjoy something like Dokuro-chan because the violence (seems) different in the way it is presented . And for the record I haven't seen either of those two anime. (btw anyone reading this should give Karakuri Kiden a try, it's incredibly unique and refreshing) Claymore is one of the few anime I've seen where I can totally see the shounen skeleton underneath, but that it might attract a different type of shounen audience doesn't mean it's actually a show for adults just because of the violence. Is something like Fune wo Amu family-friendly because of its lack of any obvious objectionable content? Maybe in a weird sense it is, but most kids are going to find it boring as fuck...and there are as many examples of this as there are anime.... I think you're taking this way too personally in all seriousness, just because I casually swear doesn't make me angry, at you or about the topic, just like a lot of profanity doesn't a make a piece of fiction more 'adult.' Anyway, I feel like I've made myself as clear as I possibly can. |
| Oh my god, the "he ate my pencil" scene from Cromartie High School. Or maybe just any random compilation video on youtube of different funny scenes from the Ghost Stories dub. |
syncrogazer said: I thought your "(not)" in your last post mentioning strawmanning was acknowledging that i said i don't think you're strawmanning me, but i guess not, i said "I don't believe you're straw-manning me" i just think you're misinterpreting me (a simple honest mistake). You haven't been directly quoting me and asking to clarify, you've been confrontational telling me how it is not asking questions that i haven't already answered so that's all i can go off of, until these last couple of posts where you really started asking questions. The only question i haven't directly answered that i can see is "Like who are we dealing with here, literal teenagers?", which if it was that important my bad, i don't think there is an age requirement to hold these views especially when the people i've encountered haven't been teens.Lunilah said: I don't see what's funny about you lecturing me and telling me how it is and expecting me to defend your assertions when they don't apply to me. I'm not doing this though...Seriously, I'm not trolling or just being an ass with this, I genuinely do not get this notion that I am somehow attributing ideas to you that you do not hold, or strawmanning you, when I quote you directly and ask for you to clarify yourself often. Not every one of my own personal opinions is a direct criticism of something you've said, it's just you know, my opinion. Talking about the 'age-rating' thing really made you angry and for the life of me I don't understand why. It was just a way to describe how a lot of people react to certain content, as well as to illustrate the inherent arbitrariness in this very discussion. Which brings us to: rated R themes Did you say this on purpose just to trigger me? Why are you talking about the perspective of an anime fan when the whole point of the topic is to sell someone who isn't an anime fan on the medium? Because the anime fan (me, you, whomever) is the person the topic is addressed to. And that's the person who is forced to interpret the non-anime fan's assertions and respond to them. I don't disagree with violence isn't the opposite of kiddish, but content intended for mature audiences is So, we're not even that far off, really, it's just going to be a matter of how one defines 'intended for mature audiences.' As an example, I'm currently watching Karakuri Kiden: Hiwou Senki which has the tone of a show for kids, but in 11 episodes I've seen mass murder, political assassination, anti-foreign prejudice, shifting loyalties, death, and revenge and all of this takes place in a Japan which is highly fictionalized but also highly contextualized in terms of real history. I'm purposefully leaving out all of the child nudity in the anime, because cultural differences obviously play a huge factor in this discussion too. Karakuri Kiden is operating on multiple levels, and has quite a bit of challenging content which honestly is nothing new for a kids anime, but none of this precludes it from being enjoyed not only by kids but probably the entire family. In fact it is this depth that allows it to be enjoyed by different audiences at the same time. What's my point here? It's that the way content is handled is going to impact the type of audience that will enjoy it and not its presence alone. Any of the things I've listed could be considered mature content, and it is in a sense, but it all comes down to how these things are packaged and presented. For what it's worth, I think the anime handles its violence with a lot of maturity and it doesn't use it for spectacle or as an aesthetic add-on. I think you'd also agree that just because someone likes Tokyo Ghoul doesn't mean they'll enjoy something like Dokuro-chan because the violence (seems) different in the way it is presented . And for the record I haven't seen either of those two anime. (btw anyone reading this should give Karakuri Kiden a try, it's incredibly unique and refreshing) Claymore is one of the few anime I've seen where I can totally see the shounen skeleton underneath, but that it might attract a different type of shounen audience doesn't mean it's actually a show for adults just because of the violence. Is something like Fune wo Amu family-friendly because of its lack of any obvious objectionable content? Maybe in a weird sense it is, but most kids are going to find it boring as fuck...and there are as many examples of this as there are anime.... I think you're taking this way too personally in all seriousness, just because I casually swear doesn't make me angry, at you or about the topic, just like a lot of profanity doesn't a make a piece of fiction more 'adult.' Anyway, I feel like I've made myself as clear as I possibly can. I don't mind criticism at all i think it's a great thing. I'm not angry in the slightest and i assume that would have been clear from my what i think has been calm responses, i just figure you are since you've been cursing and insulting. Not that i'm offended, just that i don't think it's relevant and adds nothing to the conversation. Why would saying rated R themes trigger you? Can you explain yourself on this? Ah okay, i see what you meant with the kids thing then. Because the company i keep is into action and horror and i've been successful most of the time in getting my friends into anime who were previously ignorant to the industry. I agree and do think this seems to only be about, at the core, how we define content intended for mature audiences. I haven't seen Karakuri Kiden but FMA:B is a great example which embodies all of those aspects you mentioned and i completely agree, especially with it coming down to how it's handled since that was my point with Higurashi, Hellsing Ultimate, and Tokyo Ghoul. Looking at our affinity the only thing i can see somewhat fitting is Afro Samurai but i don't actually remember a lot of it so i don't think it would be accurate. As long as it has copious amounts of senseless violence i definitely know a few people who would be into it regardless. Claymore was pretty fun to watch and i feel the exact same about the shounen skeleton, especially as it has the shounen tag. It definitely stood out to me as a shounen for most of it. As for lack of "objectionable content" being family friendly, as long as it's intellectually digestible for children i think it is whether they find it boring or not. For example GITS is something i don't think is digestible for kids, for the most part, despite not particularly having objectionable content, they mostly wouldn't understand what's going on. Mid to late teens i think would definitely understand it. I'm not taking it personally i'm just dumbfounded how you made it a point to mention that i left out your edited content after i made my post, when the only thing you added was an extension to an insult, like was it really that important to acknowledge you made a dick remark? It's irrelevant. |
I don't believe in the Devil. You should. He believes in you. |
| It really depends on the friend! OO: I remember back in like 2008 or early 2009, my friend (a female, "straight" at the time) was like, "I dunno about yuri. I'm surprised you like it". And I was like, "That's fine! It's just that I can't help but gush over scenes like... here, I know you might not like it, but lemme show you what I mean at least". Then I showed her this scene from the Utena film with absolutely no context (maybe even this exact upload, lol): When it ended, I was like, "Wasn't that beautiful?" She kinda didn't answer, so I gushed about it for a little while and was like, "OKAY I'M HUNGRY. FEED ME" (since I was at her house). Fast forward to now and she's probably the biggest yuri fan I know, with Utena being one of her dear favorites. I think the clip just happened to hit all the right nerves for her. She's the type who seems to enjoy older anime-- older everything, really. She loves romantic things along with simple yet sophisticated-looking and mature things. She also likes that type of music. And to top it all off, she likes Ikuhara, though she didn't know at the time. So this clip was perfect for her... and I didn't even know. But I'm not about to show this clip to darn near anyone else. Ya know? |
syncrogazer said: Oh yes, let me find what it fits here:Lunilah said: It's not about what people define as 'edge' since so many people have different definitions and it's overused so much that it's meaning is lost. Nah, this just sounds like an excuse.  |
 |
| Hmm, depends on the person but maybe this https://youtu.be/xzIbbJPlWZE |
  『 The truth has power because it’s the truth. And because it is the truth, that makes it just. It’s persuasive, isn’t it? Don’t you want truth like that? 』 |
| the scene where Naruto used his sharingan to kill his father, Itachi |
Lunilah said: Why would saying rated R themes trigger you? Can you explain yourself on this? It's just a joke about the whole 'age-rating' thing. when the only thing you added was an extension to an insult, I also rephrased some other things which I thought were important in terms of nuance, which is what I was really referring to. But I think I have a right to be a bit of a dick when someone passively-aggressively 'OKs' me and then tells me what basically amounts to 'I'm not hear to discuss your beliefs' while at the same time continuing to interpret those same 'beliefs' in question as some sort of unfair treatment of their ideas, which I had never intended it to be...like I feel like a lot of this conversation is made up of weird misunderstandings that just aren't going away for whatever reason. It could be my fault too, but I don't think I'm coming across as confrontational or insulting, this is just how I talk online. And maybe other than my first two posts in the thread which were too brief to really contain much of anything, I believe I've engaged with your ideas, or what I had of them, in good faith. I only used Karakuri Kiden as an example because it's fresh in my mind. I know that hardly anyone has watched it, but I figured if I explained it well enough that wouldn't really matter. Hopefully I was successful. Though I can't stress enough that the anime really feels like a family show, and not in the typical shounen way but in an actual 'sit down with your parents' kind of way. From what I remember of Afro Samurai it's just super stylized violence made specifically for a Western audience. You mention GITS and Madlax immediately comes to my mind as a weird parallel, where it isn't necessarily the plot but the show's subtext that is most likely going to be completely unintelligible to someone too young, but the superficial aspects of it (girls with guns, cool setting etc.) could certainly attract a younger audience. Even stranger, it has an incredibly high body count, but no actual visible blood which makes it harder to define its violence in terms of extreme or explicit, but is definitely ever-present. Yeah, having such few shows in common means we're just going to keep talking about shit one of us has never seen. A lot of the time, I think maturity means just that in this context: ones ability to handle content at a certain level and an anime's ability to handle its own content with the right amount of self-awareness to properly connect with an audience. But, it's pretty obvious that more detailed that this conversation gets the more we'll end up agreeing rather than disagreeing. I think think the difference in the end is going to be our respective cut-offs for what makes something 'kiddish' or not, with my own personal tendency to see extreme bloody violence as mostly spectacle which comes across as immature, much like vulgarity (I'll never deny my own immaturity though nor how little I care about how 'mature' any anime I watch is or isn't). |
| This scene from the end of the first episode of Made In Abyss :- OR This anime opening :- If neither of these sell them on at least giving anime a try then it isn't worth the effort trying to convince them any further. |
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| at the moment my vote is this one, Levi vs Zeke on Attack on Titan season 3 part 2 also All is One and One is All - Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood |
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