anyone else is not happy about the &quot;current&quot; state of anime community?

Offline

Jun 2009

2741

My problem with anime is that nowadays we have 50 series per season, while 15-20 years ago we had 20 series per season. So a lot more low-buget, low effort stuff is produced right now. Too many in fact!
This connects with the overabundance of moe shows. Not all moe shows are bad, heck some of them are really enjoyable, but more than half are lazily and hurriedly made.

"Make it fast, before that 4 koma manga or that visual novel becomes forgotten so the slobby, sleazy otakus won't pay thousands of dollars on figurines and overly priced Blu-rays any longer" type of mentality that some executives in some studio have.
Case and point: That awful "little sister animu" abomination that aired last season: "Ore ga Suki nano wa Imouto dakedo Imouto ja Nai".
Even the animators cried for help in the credits: https://sgcafe.com/2018/11/sister-writer-tv-anime-staff-may-issued-cry-help-end-credits/

Gotta milk that cash cow for all they're worth.

Same thing happened with Dragon Ball Super and Sailor Moon Crystal and some episodes and scenes look like ASS:

Quality over quantity people! Also, pay your animators more, it's disgraceful!

Rhiannon-SenpaiFeb 12, 2019 12:34 PM

Feb 12, 2019 12:28 PM

#113

JFuji

Offline

Aug 2016

1214

Hokage_Jason said:

Shiroanon said:

why did you even bring it up if you didn't want to argue about it? is it so difficult and offending for you to hear opinions that are different from yours?
i just want to know what you find so wrong with fantasies and fiction

I brought it up because I feel it’s my duty as a human to tell adults who are sexually aroused by rape and prepubescent girls that they are trash.

Im totally okay with people having different tastes. I think HxH is super overrated, but I’m not going to go around shit talking it’s fan base lol. I respect their opinion.

But this is a different matter all together. I’m not going to argue it because no one is going to change their opinion.

People with a strong enough moral basis to see the problem with Lolis/rape/incest will continue to hate those things, because they understand it’s wrong.

And the sickos who get off to it clearly have no morals, so expecting them to realize their fetish is not okay is like expecting a five year old to take calculus.

THERE IS A REASON ITA BEING DEFENDED ON FORUMS AND NOT IRL. You would be imprisoned or assaulted for advocating a sexual desire in rape or 12 year olds in the real world.

Hmmm
Does liking NTR make me a sicko?

Feb 12, 2019 12:32 PM

#114

Hokage_Jason

Offline

Dec 2018

1166

@jFuji I haven’t seen it so I don’t know. If it’s about rape or 12 year old girls being sexualized, and you were aroused by that, then yes.

If not, no.

Lolicons are scum.
BABYMETAL is more metal than Metallica.
Naruto is objectively the best anime ever.
HxH 99' is decent. HxH 11' is bad.

Feb 12, 2019 12:34 PM

#115

I watch movies/I write about movies (in Spanish)/I watch anime

Offline

Oct 2010

11734

-Ereya- said:

Quality over quantity people! Also, pay your animators more, it's disgraceful!

These look like inbetweens of motion scenes which I don't think you should really use to try to prove your point about animation being bad.

Also, trying to guess the budget on animation through still frames doesn't quite cut it.

Feb 12, 2019 12:51 PM

#116

Offline

Jun 2009

2741

jal90 said:

-Ereya- said:

Quality over quantity people! Also, pay your animators more, it's disgraceful!

These look like inbetweens of motion scenes which I don't think you should really use to try to prove your point about animation being bad.

Also, trying to guess the budget on animation through still frames doesn't quite cut it.

I thought someone would bring up the in-between stuff. Only those two pictures are in-betweens. But the rest aren't.
No. The entire 5th episode of Dragon Ball Super is infamous for its bad quality.
So is the entire first season of Sailor Mon Crytal, there are a lot of lingering shots and zoom-ins on characters' faces that look derpy and janky. In the first episodes, Usagi's face has a weird, open-mouth expression, like that of a blow-up doll. And those scenes keep appearing!

On the left, Usagi looks like that on most of the first episodes, her face is janky af. Btw, those are images of her talking, that zooms-in on her face, those aren't quick in-between but entire scenes!
On the right is the redrawn, remastered Blu-ray version. Even Toei knew they fucked up since they had to make such a radical change in the Blu-ray version.

Imagine entire episodes of this face:

Dragon Bal Super 5th episode fight scene
Entire fight, not just in-between looks like TOTAL ASS!

Rhiannon-SenpaiFeb 12, 2019 12:55 PM

Feb 12, 2019 12:57 PM

#117

I watch movies/I write about movies (in Spanish)/I watch anime

Offline

Oct 2010

11734

@-Ereya- Thanks, I guess you understand why this is so much better than pics to prove your point and that in fact pics prove nothing when we talk about animation.

Either way you are counting budget for some reason that escapes my knowledge. Particularly seeing that these shows are long-running the bad drawings that got fixed in the BR release look more like the result of bad planning/supervision and rushed production. It's not like the budget necessarily went awfully down during these episodes or scenes, just for those episodes or scenes.

Feb 12, 2019 1:08 PM

#118

Offline

Jun 2009

2741

jal90 said:
@-Ereya- Thanks, I guess you understand why this is so much better than pics to prove your point and that in fact pics prove nothing when we talk about animation.

Either way you are counting budget for some reason that escapes my knowledge. Particularly seeing that these shows are long-running the bad drawings that got fixed in the BR release look more like the result of bad planning/supervision and rushed production. It's not like the budget necessarily went awfully down during these episodes or scenes, just for those episodes or scenes.

I agree. It's not only about low-budget, the budget can be fine but the lack of organization and supervision makes it look like the cheapest stuff.
I said that in my previous comment:

-Ereya- said:

My problem with anime is that nowadays we have 50 series per season, while 15-20 years ago we had 20 series per season. So a lot more low-buget, low effort stuff is produced right now.

more than half are lazily and hurriedly made.

Quality over quantity people! Also, pay your animators more, it's disgraceful!

Low effort stuff can be made ranging from okay to high budget or low budget. But if there is little care and effort it won't look good nevertheless. It's just that usually series or episodes with higher budget can afford to hire talented key animators like Matsumoto Norio and not just out-source scenes to countries like Phillipines. With no master key animator like Matsumoto Norio and others.

So to make it more clear: low-budget AND low-effort. Though low-budget doesn't ALWAYS mean low-efort, but it's a good indicator for a lot of cases.

Feb 12, 2019 1:19 PM

#119

Johan

Offline

May 2010

2066

Not a fan of the current state of the anime community. It's becoming increasingly toxic the last 4-5 years or so. These problems didn't exist 9 years ago I promise.

If anyone does not love the Lord
Jesus Christ
Let him be accursed
O Lord, Amen!

Feb 12, 2019 1:53 PM

#120

copyrightRingo

Offline

May 2017

159

Dante012 said:

@copyrightRingo:
Er, K-On didn't actually start the moe culture ^^'. It existed way before that. It didn't even make it popular, it already was before. Lucky Star, for example, is pure moe, and was made before K-On. Eroge, which often includes underage girls, have been using moe since the '90s (maybe even before).
Also, you say any "pure moe show" is bound to flop. But Yuru Camp aired in 2018 and was pretty well received!

I fully knew that. Moe has been there long ago, but not until K-On this aspect really blew up.
Maybe bound to flop is a bit extreme, but "does not age well" is definitely true. I still remember watching Lucky Star back then and liked it a lot, only ended up thinking "what's so good about this show?" when I decided to rewatch the show years later.
Maybe it's just me, I'm mostly desensitized to the cuteness and chilliness after watching moe shows after moe shows.

「ボクは…確かに現実に絶望している。だけど、自分には絶望していない!! 今がつまらないか…楽しいのか…平凡なのか…決めているのは現実じゃない。決めるのはボクだ!!ボクが望めば不可能はない!!」-桂木桂馬
"True, I've given up on the real world. However, I haven't given up on myself!! The world doesn't get to decide whether my life is boring, fun, or ordinary because that's my decision to make!! As long as I have the will, nothing is impossible!!" -Katsuragi Keima

Feb 12, 2019 2:15 PM

#121

I watch movies/I write about movies (in Spanish)/I watch anime

Offline

Oct 2010

11734

@-Ereya- So that settles our discussion basically xD

copyrightRingo said:

Dante012 said:

@copyrightRingo:
Er, K-On didn't actually start the moe culture ^^'. It existed way before that. It didn't even make it popular, it already was before. Lucky Star, for example, is pure moe, and was made before K-On. Eroge, which often includes underage girls, have been using moe since the '90s (maybe even before).
Also, you say any "pure moe show" is bound to flop. But Yuru Camp aired in 2018 and was pretty well received!

I fully knew that. Moe has been there long ago, but not until K-On this aspect really blew up.
Maybe bound to flop is a bit extreme, but "does not age well" is definitely true. I still remember watching Lucky Star back then and liked it a lot, only ended up thinking "what's so good about this show?" when I decided to rewatch the show years later.
Maybe it's just me, I'm mostly desensitized to the cuteness and chilliness after watching moe shows after moe shows.

I haven't rewatched Lucky Star myself but I dunno, I have rewatched the even earlier Azumanga Daioh various times and it does hold up. Lucky Star to me is a tricky one because contrarily to most other slice of life/CGDCT and iyashikei shows its comedy is confined in trends from a specific time frame. Being a parodic comedy this is inevitable because it references stuff that was popular at the time, but this show is even more confined than that taking into account that most of its parodies are about KyoAni franchises from that period, Haruhi in special.

Feb 12, 2019 2:20 PM

#122

Cneq

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Jan 2017

3754

Just watch the good shows
(and tbh there's at least 1 good airing show per season so that's a thing)

Feb 12, 2019 2:34 PM

#123

Aslat24

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Apr 2017

420

mifti said:
my only ongoing issue with the anime community is that every day there's someone in the anime community complaining about things that aren't real problems to justify why they are discontent with the anime community and it always seems like a new way to say "i don't like things therefore they suck ass"

Yeah, it seems like there is a forum post complaining about the community weekly. The complaints OP pointed out were mainly just complaining about the state of current anime. The community can’t help that the writers are over using tropes, but basically I agree with what you said.

Feb 12, 2019 3:24 PM

#124

xchyssa

Offline

Oct 2013

1367

Generally, getting bit disappointed because of the obnoxious-ness and ignorance of newer fans/fanbase. But I'm still positive tho.

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» [how was your day? - beabadoobee] «
0:00 〇────── 4:20
↺ |◁ II ▷| ♡

Feb 12, 2019 3:30 PM

#125

Papa_Scorch

Offline

May 2018

3183

Thread like this give me good opportunity to post this.

Not happy with “current” state of anime. First of all, lots of people here watch anime illegally, Japan pander towards people who actually pay for it. As long as people continue paying for it, Japan will continue making this kind of anime. If people really unwillingly watching seasonal anime they won’t pay for it which means your claim in OP are unfounded and nothing more than false accusation.

Compare to the past, Japan anime industry is growing.
https://www.nippon.com/en/features/h00279/anime-industry-revenues-top-¥200-billion.html
The current state of anime is doing fine regardless of your opinion.

Papa_ScorchFeb 12, 2019 4:00 PM

Feb 12, 2019 6:46 PM

#126

removed-user

Offline

Jul 2018

564612

-Ereya- said:

jal90 said:

These look like inbetweens of motion scenes which I don't think you should really use to try to prove your point about animation being bad.

Also, trying to guess the budget on animation through still frames doesn't quite cut it.

I thought someone would bring up the in-between stuff. Only those two pictures are in-betweens. But the rest aren't.
No. The entire 5th episode of Dragon Ball Super is infamous for its bad quality.
So is the entire first season of Sailor Mon Crytal, there are a lot of lingering shots and zoom-ins on characters' faces that look derpy and janky. In the first episodes, Usagi's face has a weird, open-mouth expression, like that of a blow-up doll. And those scenes keep appearing!

On the left, Usagi looks like that on most of the first episodes, her face is janky af. Btw, those are images of her talking, that zooms-in on her face, those aren't quick in-between but entire scenes!
On the right is the redrawn, remastered Blu-ray version. Even Toei knew they fucked up since they had to make such a radical change in the Blu-ray version.

Imagine entire episodes of this face:

Dragon Bal Super 5th episode fight scene
Entire fight, not just in-between looks like TOTAL ASS!

Haha, I posted this days ago in a discord group. xD

Other studios are also redrawing scenes for the official release. If you are pausing scenes, you often will see derpy faces you wouldn't recognize while watching it.
EXCEPT for this and because it was for long scenes, like you said. This can't be unseen. Because she is so beautiful.
On the other hand, Toei was never known for great art, I think. As much as I loved Digimon: The first two seasons looked shitty. Compare them to the Hosoda-movies and you get an idea of what they could have looked like.

Gorochu said:

Thread like this give me good opportunity to post this.

That's great!

removed-userFeb 12, 2019 7:23 PM

Feb 12, 2019 7:27 PM

#127

chuunigyo

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Sep 2017

67

i think your sitty feeling of loneliness stems from something beyond anime

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Feb 12, 2019 7:32 PM

#128

katsucats

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Oct 2012

15987

necro_dancer said:
ok so i need to make this clear first. the post isn't about "old anime is better than new", thats a totally different topic

my problem isn't that "moe" shouldn't exist, my problem is that moe is getting used too much

Congratulations, you just reiterated what the anime "community" has been saying for the last 10 years, so how new is your new, really?

necro_dancer said:
a large portion of new shows are moe, pretty much all the memes are based on these shows and most of what an "outsider" sees in anime is cute girls (+some dragon ball and other shounens)

i feel like its creating a barrier or something

This impression has existed since the 90s.

necro_dancer said:

another problem i have is that people feel the need to watch new seasonal anime just because they want to be familiar with the current events and everything

i don't understand this, why wouldn't u watch older shows and why would u put time into something u don't like very much?

Name me an old show that's good. Obviously there's a discoverability problem. It takes effort to look through the old catalogue of hundreds or thousands of shows, and then it takes effort to find a streaming site that isn't broken.

necro_dancer said:
i wasn't an anime fan "in the old days" but it seems like there was more diversity in both the shows and the fan base. u had moe stuff but there was also over the top action shows and everything

it feels like a lot of the writing is lazy in newer shows and they just re-use tropes too much

I think this is a historian fallacy. The few examples that you can name from the "old days" are obviously the ones that stood the test of time. There were countless other shows that you can't name that people forgot about, for good reason. Even back when some ultra-violent schtick, like Ninja Scrolls, was loved by the fans of that genre, but otherwise a cheesy mess of anime tropes. The genre distribution has shifted over the years, but the problem hasn't.

necro_dancer said:
nothing wrong with tropes itself but a trope like "traps" isn't that amazing of an idea in the first place so...

i honestly wish i was born sooner or at least started watching anime at an earlier age, i have this shitty feeling of loneliness

Buy a fedora or rock a man bun. They cure loneliness.

My subjective reviews: katsureview.wordpress.com
THE CHAT CLUB.

Feb 12, 2019 8:12 PM

#129

mecharobot

Offline

Feb 2012

3769

Maneki-Mew said:

Other studios are also redrawing scenes for the official release. If you are pausing scenes, you often will see derpy faces you wouldn't recognize while watching it.
EXCEPT for this and because it was for long scenes, like you said. This can't be unseen. Because she is so beautiful.

Isn't Usagi derpy af anyway? The old anime is full of scenes characters going derp, which is one of the charm points of Sailor Moon.

Feb 12, 2019 8:38 PM

#130

Offline

May 2009

8124

necro_dancer said:
anyone else is not happy about the "current" state of anime community?

ok so i need to make this clear first. the post isn't about "old anime is better than new", thats a totally different topic

my problem isn't that "moe" shouldn't exist, my problem is that moe is getting used too much

a large portion of new shows are moe, pretty much all the memes are based on these shows and most of what an "outsider" sees in anime is cute girls (+some dragon ball and other shounens)

i feel like its creating a barrier or something

another problem i have is that people feel the need to watch new seasonal anime just because they want to be familiar with the current events and everything

i don't understand this, why wouldn't u watch older shows and why would u put time into something u don't like very much?

i wasn't an anime fan "in the old days" but it seems like there was more diversity in both the shows and the fan base. u had moe stuff but there was also over the top action shows and everything

it feels like a lot of the writing is lazy in newer shows and they just re-use tropes too much

nothing wrong with tropes itself but a trope like "traps" isn't that amazing of an idea in the first place so...

i honestly wish i was born sooner or at least started watching anime at an earlier age, i have this shitty feeling of loneliness

You covered a bunch of things so bear with me while I respond to them one by one.

1. Your dislike of moë seems to be a problem with anime series/industry itself rather than the community.
2. Memes themselves are a barrier because they are in-jokes in the first place.
3. People watch current-season stuff ("seasonals") only because it's a convenient way to have something to chat with other people about. The pool of current-season anime is extremely small compared to the pool of all the rest of the anime that has ever existed.

If your tastes in anime aren't whatever's popular or whatever's currently airing, then be prepared to feel like you're not part of the "mainstream" of the anime fandom, because said mainstream is pretty much just about shows with some degree of perennial popularity plus whatever shows are currently airing. (And even then it's only really got chatter on the popular currently-airing shows!)

This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. You shouldn't really be envious of the parts of the fandom that...
* burn themselves out trying to watch a bunch of seasonals
* feel socially obligated to constantly evaluate/review/critique everything they watch, after every episode, without being able to see a bigger picture
* are basically compelled to be more impatient in order to have something to talk with people about
* produce giant piles of crappy memes all the time
* watch and make big deals of shows now only to forget them in a year

As for myself, I ignore seasonals, which means I can't chat with people about them, but I find it a lot less hectic this way. Besides, I have pretty niche tastes when it comes to stuff in general; I think I'm more accepting of plotlines that are put together weirdly, while I'll shamelessly drop something because of little things I don't like about it, from obnoxious fanservice to a premise that annoys me to art styles I don't care for. Meanwhile I watch stuff from whenever. Lately I've been watching Heartcatch Precure which aired like 9 years ago (2010-2011).

Anime exists for your enjoyment, and I think it works better when you engage with this hobby for your own personal enjoyment rather than as a social thing, honestly.

EndGears said:
My problem with anime fans are the psycho crazy ones that I'm afraid Japan is eventually going to listen to and start producing more " friendly " anime. You know, conform to fucking stupid Western ideals. I should be able to enjoy whatever the fuck I want without ANN being idiotic.

I don't think I get what you mean.

Do you mean that because of "psycho crazy" Japanese fans, the industry will pivot away from them and then "conform to fucking stupid Western ideals"? What are these "psycho crazy" fans doing that makes them "psycho crazy"? What are these "fucking stupid Western ideals" anyway? And what does any of this have to do with "[Anime News Network] being idiotic"?

Nerdanimefan1992 said:

Dave_Adrian said:
Prisma Illya WAS A MISTAKE

Prisma Illya Is the only good fate series

*puts on fire-elemental armor*

Prisma Illya seems to be the only Fate/ thing that's not about magical dickwaving contests between historical/mythological characters, so it's the only thing I tried watching.

Unfortunately, Prisma Illya has at least one horribly obnoxious character (that magic wand specifically) so I dropped it after half an episode.

Later, I tried rewatching it. I started watching it again...and then that magic wand was horribly obnoxious again, and so I dropped it after half an episode, again.

Yudina said:
This thread actually gave me downs.

Wait, you can acquire feathers from internet forum threads? I want to know how you do it.

holysauron said:
Characters like Lum or Ayanami Rei are seen as moe by Japan.

IIRC Rei was meant to look unsettling, but the fandom then took it the wrong way and found her sexy. lol

But yeah, shittons of stuff in Japan is whimsical and cutesy. Even stuff like public transit signage.

holysauron said:
The thing about reusing tropes is something that will always be present. It's just that the trends of today are not the trends of yesteryear. The 70's had lots of super mecha, the 80's had lots of mecha too as well as violent shounen (Hokuto no Ken etc.) and space operas, the 90's and early 00's had very esotheric stuff, battle shounen, Sailor Moon like mahou shoujo, the late 00's had melodrama and slice of life and you know what this decade has yourself. I'm even surprised you're not complaining about all the isekai that's been churned out ever since Sword Art Online got popular.

This.

OP @necro_dancer, it's really not so much that things are any more cliché than they were before, it's just that you're not into the current crop of clichés.

ToG25thBaam said:
What's Re:Zero known for? Rem the waifu
What's SAO known for? Asuna the waifu

As someone who hasn't read/watched Re:Zero past the first book, I'm actually quite surprised that Rem is the waifu rather than Emilia.

As for SAO though I thought it's known for "being popular trash".

_Ako_ said:
I feel like the current state of anime community seeing there's something wrong with moe is absolutely quite the irony apparent in this thread.

I feel like the problem with the current state of the anime community is that the anime community is capable of arguing about basically anything.

Loathsome said:
i ll just say i prefer mayonnaise over ketchup
deal with it

Sweet! I do too!

But I still prefer either of them over people going on and on in a stupid flamewar.

HsiuqsYgnops said:
Most people watch both seasonals and older shows at the same time.

Shhh, if you expose that false dichotomy, people won't have anything to argue over!

Gorochu said:

Thread like this give me good opportunity to post this.

Haha, there's a whole bunch of these, and it's possible to cherry-pick basically anything.

It's true that not all genres/tropes are equally as common all the time, but the most important thing is that those older shows don't stop existing just because newer shows get made. So as long as one is not jumping into anime merely to have something to talk with other people about...

Gorochu said:
The current state of anime is doing fine regardless of your opinion.

But...but...there are people with opinions on the internet who say that anime should be less of some things and/or more of some other things! What horrible things would happen if the industry listened to them? What horrible things would happen if the industry didn't listen to them? My goodness! The absolute horror!

Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut.

Feb 12, 2019 8:56 PM

#131

Offline

May 2009

8124

EndGears said:

GlennMagusHarvey said:
[my entire post, from which the following is excerpted:]

Do you mean that because of "psycho crazy" Japanese fans, the industry will pivot away from them and then "conform to fucking stupid Western ideals"? What are these "psycho crazy" fans doing that makes them "psycho crazy"? What are these "fucking stupid Western ideals" anyway? And what does any of this have to do with "[Anime News Network] being idiotic"?

Psycho crazy Western fans dude. Look at ANN reviews on Fate, Shield Hero, and Goblin Slayer

(You probably shouldn't have quoted my entire post...)

Link me some of these?

Though I'm aware that basically any fandom large enough has its crazies, and the Fate fandom is certainly quite large, not to mention the anime fandom as a whole. And Goblin Slayer also certainly made the rounds even here on MAL as controversy bait, with Shield Hero seeming like its watered-down next-of-kin in the bait department.

That said I thought you were talking about the kinds of (Japanese) fans who did stuff like sending Anno death threats over Evangelion.

Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut.

Feb 12, 2019 8:57 PM

#132

Papa_Scorch

Offline

May 2018

3183

GlennMagusHarvey said:

Gorochu said:

Thread like this give me good opportunity to post this.

Haha, there's a whole bunch of these, and it's possible to cherry-pick basically anything.

It's true that not all genres/tropes are equally as common all the time, but the most important thing is that those older shows don't stop existing just because newer shows get made. So as long as one is not jumping into anime merely to have something to talk with other people about...

Gorochu said:
The current state of anime is doing fine regardless of your opinion.

But...but...there are people with opinions on the internet who say that anime should be less of some things and/or more of some other things! What horrible things would happen if the industry listened to them? What horrible things would happen if the industry didn't listen to them? My goodness! The absolute horror!

Exactly. People who said old anime has better writing just cherry pick. Most people won’t watch seasonal anime for conversation but personal enjoyment.

https://myanimelist.net/forum/

If you look at the bottom right, you can see the amount of Mal members checking the forum. We have 5.7 million users but only a few hundred checking the forum. Most anime fans don’t care about anime conversation.

Papa_ScorchFeb 13, 2019 6:12 AM

Feb 12, 2019 8:58 PM

#133

RIP CE, thank you and fuck you for bringing Rule 7 that ultimately killed you and this shithole

Offline

May 2009

8124

GOOD GOSH YOU PEOPLE STOP QUOTING MY ENTIRE POST AND PAGESTRETCHING AS A RESULT

Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut.

Feb 12, 2019 9:02 PM

#134

mecharobot

Offline

Feb 2012

3769

GlennMagusHarvey said:

Prisma Illya seems to be the only Fate/ thing that's not about magical dickwaving contests between historical/mythological characters, so it's the only thing I tried watching.

The original genre is horror/mystery. The historical figures are more of a front, to keep minimum spoilers. Zero is a bit more action oriented, but it's more like a fanfic by guest author anyway.

Prisma Ilya is a spin-off of an idea in a bad ending skit in FSN, iirc

Feb 12, 2019 9:33 PM

#135

-Mahesvara

Offline

Jan 2015

5513

The problem with the community is the toxicity(whether its SJWs, anti-SJWs, edgelords, elitests, etc) and the use of buzzwords(which ultimately get used to inaccurately critique stuff people don't like).

My Queens

Feb 12, 2019 9:38 PM

#136

ROCK-IT-ON

Offline

Dec 2018

73

lol, having a good laugh. Back on ANN they wouldn't have this shit go on any other way.

My issue with the anime community overseas is that there's little to no creative community. Where the fuck are the artists and writers who want to create their own stories and stuff?

Jazz had musicians go over to France and expand their world. Punk and rock traveled across the Atlantic to the US to help shape rock n' roll. For anime and manga, where are the aspiring and inspired, the striving and talented?

Nowadays we have nothing but a bunch of mouthy assholes who do nothing but spectate and shit out their asses about how "this needs to be this" instead of being actual men and doing what the fuck they want. You can complain and piss and bitch and shit all about moe and how Japan isn't making anime like they used to, but I can give leeway to creators over there that they are working their asses off out in the real world and doing shit. Everyone here and there and everywhere on the net has long been jerking off their flacid fan fapper and thought their bottom dollar would keep on pumping out the lube.

Hell, don't even get me started on the self depreciation "traesh" crowd and the nostalgia jerkoffs either. I live in the United Fucking States of America and while there's been karate, sushi, karaoke, and sudoku adopted into the US's repertoire I've been waiting for fucking YEARS on if anyone will give a shit to try and undertake seriously what goes into making anime not just technically but culturally and hybridizing that with US spins. So far, jack shit no one has.

And nowadays, as time goes on without those going against the odds and actually staking their efforts out in life, we have the prudes and critically self defeating self aware "sex = bad" shithead anime elitists out on anime review sites and blogs about how there "needs to be less tits because I got called a pervert by daddy and no one loves me". Man the fuck up, even you, you fucking wannabe manchild manliness sucking man wannabes. Stay away from me and my 80's anime until you grow a damn pair and do something about this shit.

Most of you make me sick. Time to puke.

Feb 12, 2019 9:41 PM

#137

Aidoru-Ojisan

Offline

Apr 2013

2743

Mix the current state of mind (troll culture, PC culture, SJWs, anti-SJWs) most people who use the internet have mixed with the already cringe toxic nature of extreme weebs, it's a recipe for disaster and from what I have seen what the anime community is capable of at their lowest I am glad I haven't fully joined the ranks of the modern anime community.

Ascended Taste
I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab:

Feb 12, 2019 10:51 PM

#138

ROCK-IT-ON

Offline

Dec 2018

73

Gorochu said:

EndGears said:
My problem with anime fans are the psycho crazy ones that I'm afraid Japan is eventually going to listen to and start producing more " friendly " anime. You know, conform to fucking stupid Western ideals. I should be able to enjoy whatever the fuck I want without ANN being idiotic.

I don't think I get what you mean.

Do you mean that because of "psycho crazy" Japanese fans, the industry will pivot away from them and then "conform to fucking stupid Western ideals"? What are these "psycho crazy" fans doing that makes them "psycho crazy"? What are these "fucking stupid Western ideals" anyway? And what does any of this have to do with "[Anime News Network] being idiotic"?

Either you're upping the smart aleck in you or you're that naive. Anime News Network has already gotten a reputation for itself by being a very prudish and conservative source for the West's anime news, and despite all that's said and done by their terms of contract about how "our opinions don't necessarily reflect ANN", like Fox News or anything on Daystar, they are really pushing for major western influence on the Japanese animation industry and imposing their "progressive views" for their own pockets.

A lot of their writing staff have been involved with fringe anime fansites that promote anti moe agendas (yeah, it's called Colony Drop, look it up) and openly peeing on Japan for not being "progressive in sexual values like the US has" with the extreme feminist movement and actually extremely racist fringe LGBTQ crowds, like Jacob Chapman openly calling Darling in the FRANXX right wing propaganda for its message of promoting having kids and for Japan to get into having heterosexual relationships.

It also doesn't help that they openly state their despising of modern day anime, and complain about how "fanservice is bad" because the US already has issues with body image, self esteem, sexuality, and outdated Puritan Christian outlooks that they ironically still promote and disallow any discussion of said topic.

This is what happens when the lazy and mouthy are rewarded, and especially armchair critics whose careers were founded on cynical smartass smarmy anime reviews.

Also the reason why I will never let Anime News Network live down anything they do. Most of anyone who had half a brain left their community.

Feb 12, 2019 10:59 PM

#139

nbq

Offline

Nov 2013

509

Imo, I think moe is just too easy to create.

Think of it like youtubers, it's so much easier to steal from other people's preexisting content than to create your own.

In this case, moe is already so widespread that there's already enough data to support what works and what doesn't, so why take the risk and use a different character troupe.

WHEN IT RAINS, IT POURS.

Feb 12, 2019 11:15 PM

#140

_Ako_

Offline

Feb 2015

13836

GlennMagusHarvey said:

_Ako_ said:
I feel like the current state of anime community seeing there's something wrong with moe is absolutely quite the irony apparent in this thread.

I feel like the problem with the current state of the anime community is that the anime community is capable of arguing about basically anything.

That's in fact the beauty of it; though not to the exaggerated sense of feeling a little bit on the "ohhh my there's sexualized lolis... everyone's a pedophile" type of shit.

Feb 12, 2019 11:23 PM

#141

BilboBaggins365

Offline

Oct 2017

4053

Gorochu said:

Thread like this give me good opportunity to post this.

Not happy with “current” state of anime. First of all, lots of people here watch anime illegally, Japan pander towards people who actually pay for it. As long as people continue paying for it, Japan will continue making this kind of anime. If people really unwillingly watching seasonal anime they won’t pay for it which means your claim in OP are unfounded and nothing more than false accusation.

Compare to the past, Japan anime industry is growing.
https://www.nippon.com/en/features/h00279/anime-industry-revenues-top-¥200-billion.html
The current state of anime is doing fine regardless of your opinion.

Yeah this picture is basically my thoughts when people claim there wasn't much fanservice or moe back in the day. That said OP I mean if we go back to the 80's do we complain there was too much Sci-Fi/mecha? Same thing with tropes anime/manga has been abusing that since the medium was created. One of the worst tropey anime I have ever seen was Record of the Lodoss War which came out in the early 90's which is like the most tropey/boring action fantasy I have ever seen beautiful art style though. Just because you want to create a classic high fantasy story doesn't mean ripping off the most basic DnD adventure out there. One of the worst romance series I have seen is Love Hina which came out in 2000. Gundam Stardust Memory is also a pretty terrible show outside of the good animation and most Gundam plots were basically following the same formula (some good some bad). I mean OP if you want bad/meh old shows I am pretty sure people can help you there lol. I feel still fairly new when it comes to really diving into old anime and guess what I already found quite a few bad shows.

If you stick to the old classics and then only watch seasonal shows then yes the tropes will stand out classics are classics for a reason they stood out from everything else (which looking at your list the only old anime you have watched are highly rated shows rather than everything that was coming out). Most entertainment industries do fall into tropes at some point mainly because they sell. Also tropes aren't even bad things they are actually good and stay around because people like them. The usage of tropes is where the actual criticism comes into play.

As for moe Laidback Camp was probably one of the most successful anime last year in terms of actual sales. They do well because they sell well and I can understand why. I really enjoyed Laidback Camp as a break from my own stressful like lots of CGDCT shows do a good job at that and for work crazy Japan I see the appeal.

So back to the topic again what % would be ideal for you. Ultimately this thread regardless of intent does feel like the classic old anime was better than new and not even an actual backed up opinion (which I have seen in some topics) but more in just a pure hindsight/lack of knowledge point of view. Granted I have a hard time understanding those that feel that old or new anime is terrible because personally I like them both quite a bit

Regardless back to your point more diversity. You claim that all anime is today is CGDCT and Shonen that sounds like you don't branch out enough. What about some of the great drama anime that we have got in the past like Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu or March Comes in Like A Lion. If its just more gritty action series Gundam Thunderbolt, Megalo Box, Devilman Crybaby, Golden Kamuy, Drifters, Made in Abyss have all come out recently. We also got Dororo airing this season and Vinland Saga to be released sometime soon this year.

The fanbase was more diverse? Again what do you have to actually support that outside of conjecture I really highly doubt that was the case. I mean I would actually argue the anime fanbase is more diverse than ever before because we have way more of a fanbase. As for shows again I want you to numerically back that up. I mean curious have you looked what the average anime season looked like back in the 80's?

I mean I just think this more I don't understand why this is popular so therefore it is bad rather than an actual discussion on originality and the overall state of the industry because there are legimate arguments that one could put up for old and vice versa over new you just haven't really presented any of them.

I will agree most anime fans focus way too much on new anime and don't pay attention enough to old stuff.

BilboBaggins365Feb 12, 2019 11:45 PM

Feb 12, 2019 11:38 PM

#142

rsc-pl

Offline

Aug 2013

5337

EndGears said:
My problem with anime fans are the psycho crazy ones that I'm afraid Japan is eventually going to listen to and start producing more " friendly " anime. You know, conform to fucking stupid Western ideals. I should be able to enjoy whatever the fuck I want without ANN being idiotic.

It's already happening - > Netflix.

Dave_Adrian said:

Prisma Illya WAS A MISTAKE

No.

ToG25thBaam said:
If you're a newer anime fans, you may like it because it's totally different from what you perceive anime as, but the longer you stay in the anime community, you'll find these type of anime to be pretty shitty.

What the fuck are you talking about?
Please take off your nostalgia glasses and stop pretending that you know what you are saying. First of all Moe was always a thing in modern Japanese popculture. Secondly - almost everyone that I met who loves moe series said that they hated it at at the beginning, but when they gotten more and more into anime they realized they were wrong.

Character interactions don't feel genuine, art and animation are awkward more often than not compared to Ghibli's stuffs. It's just filled with all the otaku shit.

Anime is filled with anime stuff. It can't be.
Btw.
Thanks God that Ghibli direction isn't used (and never was) as a standard for this medium. Ironically, the best Ghibli movies are movies without Miyazaki's involvement.

I have very hard time wanting to watch the next episode more often than not when I am watching Japanese anime these days

Just don't watch? It's really simple.

rsc-plFeb 13, 2019 12:13 AM

Dub = fake crap. Always.

Feb 12, 2019 11:59 PM

#143

rsc-pl

Offline

Aug 2013

5337

EndGears said:

rsc-pl said:

It's already happening - > Netflix.

No.

Netflix doesn't censor content or appeal to western ideals at all from what I've seen. Unless they fucking censor NGE or something, they haven't done anything wrong yet

I'm talking about Netflix exclusives. These series have completely different - heavy western influenced direction and character writing. Except the artstyle it doesn't even feel like anime in most cases. It's really easy to spot it even for people who don't have much experience with anime. And their subs are a pure trash.

Dub = fake crap. Always.

Feb 13, 2019 12:03 AM

#144

silent_knight98

Offline

Jan 2017

944

Simple Answer -> MONEY!

Those things make money and thats why their quantity is more than what u call those 'artistic anime'. And it will always be like this. But still, there are 2-3 good shows every season and the no. of good shows were always the same. No matter what era u talk about.

And that 'force watching' thing is kinda stupid if people are doing that. They are not watching anime for the sake of enjoyment, they just want to show off. And these kind of people perfectly fit into the definition of Normies, technically XD

Feb 13, 2019 12:16 AM

#145

Offline

May 2009

8124

mecharobot said:

GlennMagusHarvey said:

Prisma Illya seems to be the only Fate/ thing that's not about magical dickwaving contests between historical/mythological characters, so it's the only thing I tried watching.

The original genre is horror/mystery. The historical figures are more of a front, to keep minimum spoilers. Zero is a bit more action oriented, but it's more like a fanfic by guest author anyway.

Prisma Ilya is a spin-off of an idea in a bad ending skit in FSN, iirc

Ah I see. I actually dunno much about the Fate/ series, just that it's never really been a thing that has gotten on my radar. Feels to me kinda like its lore just gets way deep, but then again, that could describe a whole bunch of different things.

I didn't know that about Prisma Illya, so that helps me place it. So yes, thank you. (Might also suggest why I know some people who found it uproariously funny are dedicated Fate/ fans.)

ROCK-IT-ON said:

Gorochu said:

I don't think I get what you mean.

Do you mean that because of "psycho crazy" Japanese fans, the industry will pivot away from them and then "conform to fucking stupid Western ideals"? What are these "psycho crazy" fans doing that makes them "psycho crazy"? What are these "fucking stupid Western ideals" anyway? And what does any of this have to do with "[Anime News Network] being idiotic"?

Either you're upping the smart aleck in you or you're that naive. Anime News Network has already gotten a reputation for itself by being a very prudish and conservative source for the West's anime news, and despite all that's said and done by their terms of contract about how "our opinions don't necessarily reflect ANN", like Fox News or anything on Daystar, they are really pushing for major western influence on the Japanese animation industry and imposing their "progressive views" for their own pockets.

A lot of their writing staff have been involved with fringe anime fansites that promote anti moe agendas (yeah, it's called Colony Drop, look it up) and openly peeing on Japan for not being "progressive in sexual values like the US has" with the extreme feminist movement and actually extremely racist fringe LGBTQ crowds, like Jacob Chapman openly calling Darling in the FRANXX right wing propaganda for its message of promoting having kids and for Japan to get into having heterosexual relationships.

It also doesn't help that they openly state their despising of modern day anime, and complain about how "fanservice is bad" because the US already has issues with body image, self esteem, sexuality, and outdated Puritan Christian outlooks that they ironically still promote and disallow any discussion of said topic.

This is what happens when the lazy and mouthy are rewarded, and especially armchair critics whose careers were founded on cynical smartass smarmy anime reviews.

Also the reason why I will never let Anime News Network live down anything they do. Most of anyone who had half a brain left their community.

Well first of all you might want to quote the correct person.

Anyhow, I know ANN for their encyclopedic database and sundry other stuff. That database is quite nice, as it has more info than MAL does, though it's not as easily searchable unfortunately.

The commentary side of things is something I really don't get much into, because most of it is about shows I haven't seen anyway so I generally don't have a reason to check it out. I sometimes read their reviews, but I haven't noticed any sort of agenda to them, in the few that I've read.

(Also I plan on watching FranXX, above the objections of all those people who tell me it's a shitshow. I've watched alleged shitshows before and I can do it again, haha. I'll decide if I don't like it on my own -- I don't like fanservice if it annoys me, so it remains to be seen whether FranXX's fanservice (or other things in it) will annoy me.)

> Either you're upping the smart aleck in you or you're that naive.

I genuinely, honestly, am out-of-touch with the mainstream of the anime fandom, and also don't really give enough of a fuck to join said mainstream, since said mainstream consists of a lot of fretting over what one has chosen to watch (or not watch), along with a giant pile of ideological arguments (that inevitably go nowhere except waste time and make people hate on each other) over what anime should or shouldn't do or be like, from trope trends to social commentary. (If Joe Schmoe opines on the internet about how Joe Schmoe thinks anime doesn't serve some specific purpose, fine by me. If Jack Sprat opines on the internet about how Jack Sprat thinks anime shouldn't need to serve that purpose, fine by me too. I don't really care either way beyond my personal opinions on the matter; after all, this isn't even a matter of public policy. But I certainly don't mind pointing out that if Joe and Jack are offended by each other then they're basically up in arms over someone else disagreeing with them on the internet.)

So I guess you can call me 75% "that naive", since I'm not a regular reader of ANN by any standard, nor a regular frequenter of most general-anime internet communities; and 25% "I know some of y'all folks love to push your own opinions about how certain other opinion-pushers are ruining anime but rather than letting y'all just get away with oblique mentions of it I feel like making y'all to actually spell out your crap so you put up or shut up".

EndGears said:

GlennMagusHarvey said:

(You probably shouldn't have quoted my entire post...)

Link me some of these?

Though I'm aware that basically any fandom large enough has its crazies, and the Fate fandom is certainly quite large, not to mention the anime fandom as a whole. And Goblin Slayer also certainly made the rounds even here on MAL as controversy bait, with Shield Hero seeming like its watered-down next-of-kin in the bait department.

That said I thought you were talking about the kinds of (Japanese) fans who did stuff like sending Anno death threats over Evangelion.

Just type ANN reviews on UBW, Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero, etc. This isn't new knowledge.

The controversy crap is what I'm worried about. Last thing I need is for Japan anime to turn into American cartoons

Ah it's UBW specifically. Thanks.

(I'd ask you to actually point out where in the reviews you're finding the stuff you find objectionable, but it seems you aren't in the mood to keep going with this. But I haven't found anything from just a skim so far, either the 0-12 streaming review or the S2 review.)

Also, Japan anime isn't turning into American cartoons anytime soon. It has a massive domestic customer base in a country that has a language barrier for American cartoons, and said customer base is still happily gobbling up most of the stuff making it quite financially viable. For anime to turn into western cartoons you'd need (1) the collapse of the animation industry in Japan, PLUS (2) the animation industry in America coming up with a product style that becomes so overwhelmingly popular in Japan, swamping what would then be anime's former consumer base. Except, if you look at artistic trends, anime stuff isn't just maintaining popularity in Japan (and even more mainstream in its home country), but also trending strongly in the west. In other words, the opposite -- anime swamping out American cartoons -- is arguably more likely to happen. Even though both "swamping" directions are pretty strongly unlikely since both have their own customer bases (and a good number of people are customers of both). At the very least it'd take a generation (~20+ years) for this trend to reverse itself.

OTOH if this is another "I'm afraid some westerners with opinions will ruin anime" then I should point out that opinions are a dime a dozen and come free with human nature, and besides, the domestic audience for anime is more important to the anime industry.

GlennMagusHarveyFeb 13, 2019 12:23 AM

Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut.

Feb 13, 2019 2:29 AM

#146

ToG25thBaam

Offline

Jun 2011

13748

vhagar8 said:

ToG25thBaam said:
Compare older anime stuffs that are much easier to binge to the newer, more formulaic style of episode planning, the difference is like day and night.

Isn't that like an improvement?

Not for me. It's like a person who's a little robotic vs someone who's outgoing and very free-flowing. If each episode follows a methodological structure I have a hard time getting into it. Another example is feeling the need to cram 10 chapters into an episode, instead of letting the events play out smoothly. (I heard Toaru season 3 is facing this issue currently)

jal90 said:
Edit.- Not saying that it's your case and not particularly on the examples I've mentioned, but people often overuse this quote to confirm their biases. Reality is kind of more complicated and nuanced than "I don't relate, this can't happen in reality" and shows and authors should be judged on a case by case basis and take into account their background and personal experiences, the cultural divergences and if the series even tries to emulate or correspond to reality.

That is of course also true. I am only quoting Miyazaki because I somewhat agree with that statement. Of course it's not the universal truth because everyone's different but no doubt to some people, anime/manga/LN is their escapism and it's the only thing they could enjoy in life. You even hear some mangaka come out and say that they're introverts and do not interact much with people.

Though there's no doubt Ghibli's movies do have really good animation and movement as well, they flow really smoothly most of the time, whereas even in other highly praised anime you get really jerky movement, in particular I am thinking of Kuroko no Basket during the action scenes, not all, but they're there.

rsc-pl said:

ToG25thBaam said:
If you're a newer anime fans, you may like it because it's totally different from what you perceive anime as, but the longer you stay in the anime community, you'll find these type of anime to be pretty shitty.

What the fuck are you talking about?
Please take off your nostalgia glasses and stop pretending that you know what you are saying. First of all Moe was always a thing in modern Japanese popculture. Secondly - almost everyone that I met who loves moe series said that they hated it at at the beginning, but when they gotten more and more into anime they realized they were wrong.

None of what I said is because of nostalgia. If SAO was my first anime I probably would've enjoyed all of it because it's something new and fresh, nothing like you've ever seen in real life. Once you've seen enough anime you'd realize SAO is lacking in many places and those are crucial flaws that would hinder one's enjoyment.

And I am not bashing moe, I love myself some good moe like Non Non Biyori, Merc Storia, or Hataraku Saibou, but moe alone cannot carry a series. A lot of anime featuring moe girls (CGDCT) do not have characters with distinct individuality of their own that separates them from another cute girls from another CGDCT series. It is predictable down right to each and every one of their actions, because they react the same way, say the same thing etc.

rsc-pl said:

I have very hard time wanting to watch the next episode more often than not when I am watching Japanese anime these days

Just don't watch? It's really simple.

Didn't say I don't like it though? One episode just doesn't flow well into the next episode. The "huge cliffhanger" thing only works if you watch the series as it airs, anxiously waiting for the next episode, but not when you binge the series.

P.S. this thread sure derailed fast into petty name callings.

also another point I feel like making that is somewhat related to this topic of current state of anime community and that is the fanservice in a situation totally unwarranted of it. To make my point clearer, in the anime Angolmois, in a scene that's supposed to be tragic and emotional, the animation director somehow picked this camera angle to depict the sorrow - (providing picture proof otherwise people think im talking crazy)

and this doesn't happen just this once, it happened a lot over the last few anime that I've seen. You also get more borderline hentai in today's anime (that shows up in MAL's seasonal anime list) There's also a surge of recommendation post asking for "anime without fanservice" over the past few months. It's a legit issue that many either don't care or are unaware of it still.

Honobono Log - best slice of life short
--------------------------------------------
most kawaii loli overlord
----------------------------
Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control

Feb 13, 2019 2:34 AM

#147

Offline

Jun 2009

2741

Gorochu said:

First of all, lots of people here watch anime illegally, Japan pander towards people who actually pay for it.

I understand what you're saying. As long as most of the money comes from moe-lovers otakus in Japan, that's what most anime will be like, and is like.

I however, buy manga to support the authors. To show interest in the series that I like and encourage an anime adaptation for those that don't yet have one.

Feb 13, 2019 2:37 AM

#148