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Poll: Shoukoku no Altair Episode 21 Discussion


#1
Dec 1, 2017 9:50 AM

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Mahmut leading the troops like a boss. Nice!

Of course, the Imperial Army make their move as well. For Mahmut, I think he is really carrying his responsibility. I find it interesting that he has the trust of his comrades.

Second half of this episode had commentar about war strategies. Quite interesting.
 
#2
Dec 1, 2017 11:57 AM

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After the previous defeat, Mahmut is determined to win. He came up with brilliant strategies against the Empire. Some of the militia were unhappy with the siege and captured Director Carbajal. They were planning to hand him over to the Empire and surrender, but they were stopped.
 
#3
Dec 1, 2017 12:17 PM

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Kek when they rushed in just to take back the sheeps and cows.

Very nice second part of the episode with them surrounding the Empire army.

Hoping for a good battle next week.
 
#4
Dec 1, 2017 1:36 PM

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"I am no longer a powerless child" Can't wait to see the Empire troops' defeat against Torqye and their allies !!! I love how Mahmut wants to stop the war but is an amazing stratege.
Thumbs up to the sheeps though, I never saw them running like that, Torqye sure has some sportive sheeps.
 
 
#5
Dec 1, 2017 2:04 PM

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After watching that sheep-rescue scene, I asked to myself; 'did those empire army people feed themselves by just meat?' Probably, it may be true, after all, how effective the agriculture was in those times.

Until now, it makes me sad to not see the mapmaker and poison purple boy to fight. what are they scheming for each other?

I loved the night sceneries; the journey and the reversed-trap. Good episode.
 
#6
Dec 1, 2017 3:07 PM

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The director takeover quietly stopped and the livestock stealing tactic is born.
The empire woman gets outsmarted and about to be a sex slave.
 
#7
Dec 1, 2017 8:06 PM

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I was pretty bored for most of this episode. Zoned out a lot. Kind of disappointed. The ending was hype, though.





Three things cannot be long hidden..
...the s u n, the m oo n, and the tr u th.


 
 
#8
Dec 1, 2017 8:15 PM

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It was probably inevitable that we'd need what seems to be an expedited telling of events in order to give us a proper conclusion to this arc, and I can appreciate the focus on the main battle. On the other-hand, cutting out how on earth the dodgy-sea-dog managed to pass off his part in rebelling against Venedik just hammers in how hectic and uneven this adaptation has been (or perhaps the manga is similarly as roughshod?)

Lack of polish aside, it's always nice when a show's keikaku doori comes off excitingly as planned. The ironic table flipping and dramatic personae did a lot to make up for the previous episodes rather awkward mix of personal drama and strategems.

Oww, my stomach hurts.
Modified by Ckan, Dec 1, 2017 8:22 PM
 
#9
Dec 1, 2017 8:19 PM

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A lot of cool strategies and counterattacks in this episode. That, along with Mahmut's expression that was seen at the very end of the episode, shows that he is certainly not fucking around.
Modified by thebrentinator24, Dec 1, 2017 8:35 PM
"MAPPA is saving anime. I have spoken."

-Hayao Miyazaki, 2020 (source: dude trust me lol)
 
Dec 1, 2017 10:52 PM
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Hopefully they are saving their budget for the next few episodes!
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Dec 1, 2017 10:56 PM

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Well looks like they rushed that sea battle to get to the fights...

Iskandar is cheating! But hey, they got their supplies back. That's something that I don't usually see. Rather than engage the enemy directly, grab the goods and run instead! Not only did it benefit the Torquean army, but it also forced the empire to mobilize. Two stones with one bird!

Lily had a plan to trap Mahmut's troops...and then Mahmut plays his card and traps their troops! Ah man that was good! We got ourselves a battle!
 
Dec 1, 2017 11:30 PM

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Mahmut not gonna be pacifist that time , he will slaughter everyone for revenge i think
BRAWLERS
 
Dec 1, 2017 11:30 PM

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This episode was absolutely BEAUTIFUL!
Loved how Mahmut's been bossing things, and with tactics even more unconventional than the Empire's as well. Twice the blonde lady's been outwitted in one episode!

Seeing Mahmut come of age and come into his own right now brings such a feeling of pride to me right now. Such a wonderful episode where everything's starting to turn for the better for the good guys.
HESTIAAPPROVES
 
Dec 1, 2017 11:54 PM

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wait, is that woman from the empire, Mahmut's mother?
 
Dec 2, 2017 3:41 AM
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TsundeReaper said:
wait, is that woman from the empire, Mahmut's mother?


Impossible she is only 20's old ?
 
Dec 2, 2017 4:20 AM

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moonlightknight said:
TsundeReaper said:
wait, is that woman from the empire, Mahmut's mother?


Impossible she is only 20's old ?


Are you sure about the age?

I don't trust their looks, plus Mahmut still young, she could be 30 while Mahmut currently 15
 
Dec 2, 2017 6:06 AM
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Once again, Mahmut shows that outside-the-box strategy is more effective at winning battles and wars, with minimal losses, than brawling. But at times, fighting cannot be avoided. In those cases, do it on terms that favor you over the enemy. I also have to give recognition to Kyros, Abiriga, and company for quelling Chielo's little coup.

At the beginning of the series, I thought "he's cool, but he's no Arslan." And now... I'm seriously considering probably giving Arslan's position as my favorite character to Mahmut. How cool is he!

@thebrentinator24 and @kikusan -- did you mean this one? =)



Tarotist said:
Two stones with one bird!

Haha, I see what you did there!

Cheating? No no no... All's fair in love and war. At least until the Geneva Conventions.
Modified by kyoudai, Dec 2, 2017 6:12 AM
Seen from the past, the future is always a series of coincidences. Seen from the future, the past always looks like it was inevitable. Then what of the present? For that… we just have to trust in our own choices.
How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom: Volume 14, by Dojyomaru
 
 
Dec 2, 2017 6:07 AM
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TsundeReaper said:
moonlightknight said:


Impossible she is only 20's old ?


Are you sure about the age?

I don't trust their looks, plus Mahmut still young, she could be 30 while Mahmut currently 15

yes she is 24 years old :D
Mahmut is 17 years old
Modified by moonlightknight, Dec 2, 2017 6:12 AM
 
Dec 2, 2017 6:20 AM

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moonlightknight said:
TsundeReaper said:


Are you sure about the age?

I don't trust their looks, plus Mahmut still young, she could be 30 while Mahmut currently 15

yes she is 24 years old :D
Mahmut is 17 years old


Then a sister, perhaps
 
Dec 2, 2017 6:31 AM
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TsundeReaper said:

Are you sure about the age?

I don't trust their looks, plus Mahmut still young, she could be 30 while Mahmut currently 15

Lots of anime are really misleading about ages in relation to looks. It's quite annoying
Phosphophyllite is best gem
 
Dec 2, 2017 6:57 AM

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TsundeReaper said:
moonlightknight said:

yes she is 24 years old :D
Mahmut is 17 years old


Then a sister, perhaps

They're not related, pure and simple

If all the blonds in this series were Mahmut's family, then Christmas gatherings would be a nightmare
 
 
Dec 2, 2017 7:15 AM

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m0g said:
TsundeReaper said:


Then a sister, perhaps

They're not related, pure and simple

If all the blonds in this series were Mahmut's family, then Christmas gatherings would be a nightmare


Like I already said, I don't trust their looks

No one implied that dumb logic

Mahmut's words in the last scene "I'm no longer a powerless child."

She must be related to him somehow or knew each other before, same country with Suleymen Bey probably
 
Dec 2, 2017 7:41 AM
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TsundeReaper said:
m0g said:

They're not related, pure and simple

If all the blonds in this series were Mahmut's family, then Christmas gatherings would be a nightmare


Like I already said, I don't trust their looks

No one implied that dumb logic

Mahmut's words in the last scene "I'm no longer a powerless child."

She must be related to him somehow or knew each other before, same country with Suleymen Bey probably

That quote say to General Pino well I mentioned to Pino
When he is young He is blue eyes with yellow hair so
true father of Mahmut is Pino :D
 
Dec 2, 2017 8:13 AM

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moonlightknight said:
TsundeReaper said:


Like I already said, I don't trust their looks

No one implied that dumb logic

Mahmut's words in the last scene "I'm no longer a powerless child."

She must be related to him somehow or knew each other before, same country with Suleymen Bey probably

That quote say to General Pino well I mentioned to Pino
When he is young He is blue eyes with yellow hair so
true father of Mahmut is Pino :D


Does that mean Mahmut will lose his hair too? 😂😂😂
 
Dec 2, 2017 9:08 AM

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Finally that Kokoschka bitch gonna get rekt real bad.
When someone asks me why I like anime, I'd say Just Because.

 
Dec 2, 2017 9:27 AM
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About time the Empire gets a big punch in the mouth and remove the smugness from their faces.
"Perhaps there is a universal, absolute truth. Perhaps it justifies every question. But that's beyond the reach of these small hands." Mamoru Oshii

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Dec 2, 2017 9:55 AM
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TsundeReaper said:
moonlightknight said:

That quote say to General Pino well I mentioned to Pino
When he is young He is blue eyes with yellow hair so
true father of Mahmut is Pino :D


Does that mean Mahmut will lose his hair too? 😂😂😂


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I forgot that situation :D
 
Dec 2, 2017 1:01 PM
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kyoudai said:
Once again, Mahmut shows that outside-the-box strategy is more effective at winning battles and wars, with minimal losses, than brawling. But at times, fighting cannot be avoided. In those cases, do it on terms that favor you over the enemy. I also have to give recognition to Kyros, Abiriga, and company for quelling Chielo's little coup.

At the beginning of the series, I thought "he's cool, but he's no Arslan." And now... I'm seriously considering probably giving Arslan's position as my favorite character to Mahmut. How cool is he!

@thebrentinator24 and @kikusan -- did you mean this one? =)



Tarotist said:
Two stones with one bird!

Haha, I see what you did there!

Cheating? No no no... All's fair in love and war. At least until the Geneva Conventions.



There is a problem and a big one with this statement: he IS'T fighting on terms that favors him. Hear me out.

What we know about Torqye military? They heavily favor cavalry, especially horse archers as their main force it usually gaves them edge over enemy in terms of speed and maneuverability. We agree on this right?

Then we have Empire: slow, hard hitting and disciplined heavy infantry, with low maneuverability but excellent defense that use mainly tight formation and as ace in the hole: engineer corps. Think of them as less capable roman legions.

From what we saw the armies of city-states are similiar to XV-XVI century military of italian city-states: mainly mix of light and heavy infantry with much less cavalry.

And now we have battlefield.
1.Empire has numerical advantage so they should be able to fight on both sides, also fighting against city-states forces heavily favors them: they need only to hold the line and they have additional defense in form of a river that is deep enough that you can transport troops by it.
2.Allied Torqyean forces have to pass that and then fight Empire soldiers. Bad idea.
3. Torqyean force which greatest asset are horse archers and maneuverability are completely encircled so that points become moot.
4. Empire just need to crush encircled Torqean cavalry ( and their infantry is heavily anti-cavalry trained-pikes an all that) and hold their lines against Torqean allies, something in which Empire ''legions" excel. Also the enemy forces have to cross (very) deep river.

To sum it all up: the most mobile force encircled, the most defensive-able force behind the river. Unless Mahmut have another ace in the hole they should get slaughtered.

Great job Pascha!
 
 
Dec 2, 2017 1:56 PM
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Tempus36 said:
kyoudai said:
Once again, Mahmut shows that outside-the-box strategy is more effective at winning battles and wars, with minimal losses, than brawling. But at times, fighting cannot be avoided. In those cases, do it on terms that favor you over the enemy. I also have to give recognition to Kyros, Abiriga, and company for quelling Chielo's little coup.

At the beginning of the series, I thought "he's cool, but he's no Arslan." And now... I'm seriously considering probably giving Arslan's position as my favorite character to Mahmut. How cool is he!

@thebrentinator24 and @kikusan -- did you mean this one? =)




Haha, I see what you did there!

Cheating? No no no... All's fair in love and war. At least until the Geneva Conventions.



There is a problem and a big one with this statement: he IS'T fighting on terms that favors him. Hear me out.

What we know about Torqye military? They heavily favor cavalry, especially horse archers as their main force it usually gaves them edge over enemy in terms of speed and maneuverability. We agree on this right?

Then we have Empire: slow, hard hitting and disciplined heavy infantry, with low maneuverability but excellent defense that use mainly tight formation and as ace in the hole: engineer corps. Think of them as less capable roman legions.

From what we saw the armies of city-states are similiar to XV-XVI century military of italian city-states: mainly mix of light and heavy infantry with much less cavalry.

And now we have battlefield.
1.Empire has numerical advantage so they should be able to fight on both sides, also fighting against city-states forces heavily favors them: they need only to hold the line and they have additional defense in form of a river that is deep enough that you can transport troops by it.
2.Allied Torqyean forces have to pass that and then fight Empire soldiers. Bad idea.
3. Torqyean force which greatest asset are horse archers and maneuverability are completely encircled so that points become moot.
4. Empire just need to crush encircled Torqean cavalry ( and their infantry is heavily anti-cavalry trained-pikes an all that) and hold their lines against Torqean allies, something in which Empire ''legions" excel. Also the enemy forces have to cross (very) deep river.

To sum it all up: the most mobile force encircled, the most defensive-able force behind the river. Unless Mahmut have another ace in the hole they should get slaughtered.

Great job Pascha!

1) Torqye army is mixed to mounted archer and heavy cavarly so heavy cavarly's only duty is destroy weakened enemy by horse archer :D
2) 5000 El Toro soldier is also Cavarly so they can break to Empire phalanx to attack back side so Balt Rhein Army will hard to surround to Torqye army because 10000 soldier attack to back side
3) river is not very deep so not very advangates to Balt Rhein only little bit slower to some soldiers

and lastly actually cavarly advantages to infantry mostly in one vs one only infanty can versus cavarly they should be into phalanx and they should out number to enemy cavarly
Modified by moonlightknight, Dec 2, 2017 4:48 PM
 
Dec 2, 2017 4:27 PM
NEET4LYF

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Tempus36 said:
There is a problem and a big one with this statement: he IS'T fighting on terms that favors him. Hear me out.

What we know about Torqye military? They heavily favor cavalry, especially horse archers as their main force it usually gaves them edge over enemy in terms of speed and maneuverability. We agree on this right?

Then we have Empire: slow, hard hitting and disciplined heavy infantry, with low maneuverability but excellent defense that use mainly tight formation and as ace in the hole: engineer corps. Think of them as less capable roman legions.

From what we saw the armies of city-states are similiar to XV-XVI century military of italian city-states: mainly mix of light and heavy infantry with much less cavalry.

And now we have battlefield.
1.Empire has numerical advantage so they should be able to fight on both sides, also fighting against city-states forces heavily favors them: they need only to hold the line and they have additional defense in form of a river that is deep enough that you can transport troops by it.
2.Allied Torqyean forces have to pass that and then fight Empire soldiers. Bad idea.
3. Torqyean force which greatest asset are horse archers and maneuverability are completely encircled so that points become moot.
4. Empire just need to crush encircled Torqean cavalry ( and their infantry is heavily anti-cavalry trained-pikes an all that) and hold their lines against Torqean allies, something in which Empire ''legions" excel. Also the enemy forces have to cross (very) deep river.

To sum it all up: the most mobile force encircled, the most defensive-able force behind the river. Unless Mahmut have another ace in the hole they should get slaughtered.

Great job Pascha!


The river is deep enough to transport troops — but if you look closely, you'll see that it's about 6 inches/2.4 cm deep. (Certainly no more than 9 inches/3.5 cm.) I'm not sure how they transported troops on rafts in such shallow water, but apparently they can. As mentioned, the river is actually very shallow. They're in a sea-level basin.

Mounted archers don't particularly need mobility, but can work at full potential when they have it. They can still be used as stationary archers in a fixed position. So the cavalry and mounted archers attack from the inside and the city-state armies from the outside. Even though the Torquean troops are encircled, the Imperial troops are fighting on both sides.

As for point 4, that's exactly what Kokoschka's plan was: Crush the Torqean army and the rest crumble. But even Kokoschka admits that they played right into Mahmut's hands. She also mentions there are areas where even no plants grow because of the influx of sea water, but from the aerial view, there are plenty of plants where the Torqean troops are located, so that likely isn't an issue.

But, if you'd still prefer, I'll rephrase it as "In those times, fight on the most favorable terms you can" instead of "terms that favor you over the enemy".
Seen from the past, the future is always a series of coincidences. Seen from the future, the past always looks like it was inevitable. Then what of the present? For that… we just have to trust in our own choices.
How a Realist Hero Rebuilt the Kingdom: Volume 14, by Dojyomaru
 
Dec 2, 2017 7:33 PM

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MAHMUT IS FUCKING EPIC !!! AMAZING COMEBACK TWICE !!!!!!!!
 
Dec 3, 2017 8:26 AM

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Mahamut is a fucking beast! EPIC! Brilliant episode
 
Dec 4, 2017 4:31 PM
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Ramkec said:
Kek when they rushed in just to take back the sheeps and cows.

Very nice second part of the episode with them surrounding the Empire army.

Hoping for a good battle next week.


They taking the sheeps and scattering the cows was what lured the Empire.

This show is getting better with each episode. It's a shame how the slow start ruined it's popularity.
 
Dec 4, 2017 6:15 PM

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OMG! another EPIC EPISODE!
It's now Mahamut's comeback!!!
5/5.


 
 
Dec 6, 2017 2:17 AM

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I knew I could count on Mahmout. This is so good.
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Dec 15, 2017 8:23 PM

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What an epic episode! I knew that they wouldn't be fooled for the 2nd time, especially now with Mahmut at their side.
This anime is so good!
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Dec 16, 2017 4:58 AM

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Even Iskandar did his part.

Another good episode. They finally surrounded the Empire's army.

 
Dec 16, 2017 9:25 PM

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Mahmut is a beast!
 
Dec 21, 2017 1:15 PM

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Mahmut's counter strategy was just glorious.
 
Dec 21, 2017 6:19 PM

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Mahmut outsmarted the enemy hard, he was pretty badass at the end.
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Jan 8, 2018 10:49 PM

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Mahmut's plan was deeply satisfying. Down with the empire!
 
Dec 6, 2019 2:17 PM

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That ending made me really hyped!
Just a Matter of Time
 

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