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Feb 17, 2017 9:50 AM
#1

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THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
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Damn, this episode was entertaining. We got to see Yakumo in a video performing rakugo when he was at his prime. Good old days. I still remember when he first began to perform from the first season.

There's even footage of Hatsutaro from the video they're watching.
Episode felt nostalgic but I think they did a terrific job at the storytelling.
Feb 17, 2017 9:55 AM
#2

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Talking about how sad it would be without Ishida-san's character, who seems to start giving up doing Rakugo. Visiting the area of the ryokan where the couple died. The reporter seems to be from that area because of his father. "Bocchama"?! And he knows that lady. Checking up on the performance films from two of them when they were young.

Knowing the truth, and about Ishida-san's character blaming the incident for himself.

26:26 next.

So the anime is releasing all 12 eps. as BD-BOX instead of separating volumes...
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Feb 17, 2017 1:19 PM
#3

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Even though I was spoiled on what happened surrounding the deaths of Sukeroku and Miyokichi I wasn't aware that it was Konatsu who actually caused their deaths, man I really feel bad for that whole family, especially with how Yotaro reacted at the end :/

Otherwise this episode was fairly bittersweet, from Yakumo talking of how he has lost his passion to seeing young Sukeroku and Yakumo performing together like in s1 and finally with it being revealed that Yakumo is taking all that pain for Konatsu, ugh I really hope they get all get a good ending even if it's obvious Yakumo won't make it.

Would say this was probably the best episode so far, the other one that's even close is when Yota confronts the gang boss. What a great show.
Feb 17, 2017 1:40 PM
#4
The Komori

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I had no idea that this was how their deaths really played out......Man I feel so bad for everyone involved and its so tragic how Konatsu doesn't even realize that she killed her parents

I have a new found respect for Yakumo for willingly deciding to put all the blame on himself instead of traumatizing Konatsu for life with the truth but at the same time, I feel extra bad for him because of it

This was such a great episode but seeing all this stuff about the past and those past performances and then that ending scene really hit home for me.....Man this was something else
Feb 17, 2017 1:43 PM
#5

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Holy fuck show! For what was mostly a low-key trip down memory lane episode they dropped an enormous bomb on us: The true happenings leading to Sukeroku and Miyokichi's deaths. What the hell...why did she stab him? She's even more of a monster after this revelation, and she was already pretty damn awful. Watching their fabricated ending from season one again would definitely help. I remember it was played off with pure dumb luck, bad luck, just as Miyokichi was about to make an earnest effort to change her ways. Well that's all out the window...no pun intended. And Konatsu...still ignorant of her role I assume. Yotaro's tearful hug was certainly deserved, but...he can't possibly tell her now...right? And oh god Yakumo, shouldering all that burden. Christ, I vaguely remember some speculation back in season one that something like this might happen but...still, that was a massive punch to the gut. It almost seems quaint to bother mentioning this now after all that, but I did notice too that the images of Miyokichi on the record changed in the opening this week. I don't remember seeing those images in previous episodes anyway, could be wrong.
Feb 17, 2017 2:05 PM
#6

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Holy shit.....so that is what really happened. I can't even.

The flashback rakugo performances also wrecked me, Matsuda-san and Yota weren't the only ones tearing up.
Feb 17, 2017 2:09 PM
#7
*hug noises*

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As someone who always thought the death scene felt incredibly unnatural and poorly executed back in the first season, I was very glad to see this reveal. Made so much more sense this way. Instead of dying for nothing but sheer dumb RNG, now there was actually intention behind it
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Feb 17, 2017 2:12 PM
#8

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So it was different. Way better than "original".
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Feb 17, 2017 2:25 PM
#9
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To think I have actually had complete trust in that story back then... It just got somewhat darker, not only with the true finale for the past story. I am afraid they might do it with an enemy, both Mangetsu and the glasses-wearing friend of Miyokichi might become considerably vile for various reasons. One of them is obviously blaming Kikuhiko for what happened back then, for the death of Miyokichi. Yotaro notices it and gives him quite an unpleasant look. It might lead to a worse escalation now, though with the true story revealed, well...
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Feb 17, 2017 2:50 PM
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The directing in this episode was marvelous, as usual.
Since S1 I kept wondering why Konatsu insisted that it was Yakumo who killed her father but GOD I was not ready for this. That imagery of the former holding Sukeroku's bloodied body will stay with me for a long time.
Feb 17, 2017 2:51 PM
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The directing in this episode was marvelous, as usual.
Since S1 I kept wondering why Konatsu insisted that it was Yakumo who killed her father but GOD I was not ready for this. That imagery of the former holding Sukeroku's bloodied body will stay with me for a long time. Without a doubt one of my favorite episodes.
Feb 17, 2017 2:56 PM

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That was the best episode this season so far... but the atmosphere was slowly building up for all previous episodes. I mean, it's so unimaginably hard to start-off at the same level as first season was, with new mc and time-gap and all epicfullness of previous season. So they had to slowly rebuild it... and they carried it out splendidly.

I was so moved when they watched all records. It felt so nostalgic.

I also was aware of spoilers. Still, it was so painful to watch...

Also knowing more or less how it trully happened I think Konatsu's words to Yakumo when she was talking to him in hospital garden were more much hurting than she intended to - telling him that it's karmic retribution, while she remains clueless and he took all the burden on himself. UGH.
Feb 17, 2017 3:44 PM

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I'm beyond traumatised, holy shit.
Feb 17, 2017 3:51 PM

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Now that they "revisited" what happened years ago I want to know the "ultimate version". Why Sukeroku has been stabbed and by whom?
I'm surprised that in the first saison I didn't pay attention to the discrepancy between Konatsu's memories and Yakumo's version. Probably Konatsu knew all along he lied but still doesn't know what happened before she arrived.
Feb 17, 2017 4:34 PM
kage bunshin

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WOW! Now that was an unexepted plot twist. o.O I wonder if Konatsu will ever find out the truth.

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Feb 17, 2017 5:29 PM

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Ohh my god. I can't tell who cried more, Matsuda-san, Yota-san or me. I can't believe Yakumo carried this burden all this time, and poor Matsuda had to respect his wishes to hide the truth even if it meant watching his dear friend tear himself up over it.

I understand why Yakumo had to do it though, but even if it may be cruel, I can't stand the idea of Yakumo dying before Konatsu hears the truth. Now, the only thing I want to know is what drove Miyokichi to stabbing Sukeroku in the first place.

Other than that I loved seeing a young Kikuhiko and Sukeroku again. Best episode so far.

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Feb 17, 2017 6:26 PM

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I'm pretty sure that Miyokichi stabbed Sukeroku on accident. I think her thoughts on having a lover's suicide was to have Yakumo involved, but then Sukeroku took the bullet for his best friend. I don't think this shook my opinion on Miyokichi.
Feb 17, 2017 6:49 PM

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The season has had me on the verge of tears every episode but I actually cried at the end of this episode because the truth was so much to handle. The incident and the fact that Yakumo took the blame for the incident was too much for me to handle.
Feb 17, 2017 7:01 PM

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Wow...so what we all thought what happened in season 1 was actually Yakumo's lie all along. Damn thats powerful!!!

I wish Konatsu would be somewhat affectionate towards Yotaro though. Dammit Woman show the man some love! He clearly loves you, the child and Yakumo!
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Feb 17, 2017 7:04 PM

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Oh my god! The truth is far too traumatizing than expected!

I remember someone told me that it makes no sense for Bon to have all the blood splattered on his face, and I said it was probably just due to Bon hugging Sukeroku's corpse. Now everything makes sense, and Konatsu's reasoning finally matches up.

I'm curious as to why Miyokichi would stab Sukeroku, but comment #17 makes a good theory.

Very good episode!

I just adore the moment of a Sad Yotaro hugging a clueless Konatsu to no end :'(

Also feel sad that Bon has burdened himself with this :(
Feb 17, 2017 7:49 PM

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I.Am.Speechless.

Such a good episode, and I love that they simply ended it with a loving crying Yotaro. He's such a caring guy, one of the best male anime character's I've seen in a really long time. I'm right with him though, I just wanna cry for Kona-chan and Yakumo. I'm also curious how Konatsu will handle finding out the truth if/when that happens. On one hand I would like her to stop blaming Yakumo and be able to lift that weight off his shoulders before he passes, but on the other hand, She'll have to go through the rest of her life knowing she was responsible for her own father's death.
Feb 17, 2017 8:05 PM

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Seems that Rakugo season 2 will be getting another anime of the year for me.

Holy crap, what a AMAZING episode. They have been keeping the same level of awesomeness since episode 5.

I feel a little sad knowing that we have less than 25k members watching this masterpiece.
Feb 17, 2017 8:42 PM

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Amazing episode. Shame I had already been spoiled this reveal, but it was great regardless
Feb 17, 2017 8:43 PM
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So the truth finally comes outs.

Now I really want to know what led up to her stabbing him.
Feb 17, 2017 8:45 PM

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I don't have words to explain this episode. I really don't. ;_;
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Feb 17, 2017 9:02 PM
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This episode has me S H O O K. An anime hasn't managed to fuck me up this bad since Nana and White Album 2. 11/10
Feb 17, 2017 9:07 PM

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Aside from the brilliant directing, DAT PLOT TWIST. I was complaining about how S2 felt a bit disconnected from S1, but holy shit, not only does this ep revisit S1's story, but it turns it upside down and changes the look of the characters' dynamics. What a brilliant episode to a brilliant show. I cried a little when the truth was revealed and at that final scene with Yotaro & Konatsu. I should revisit all the interaction moments between Konatsu and Yakumo and cry over them.
Feb 17, 2017 9:30 PM

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Always been great but this episode just stepped up S2 game. Really fantastic.
Feb 17, 2017 9:52 PM

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Hmmm. It got me thinking. Bon thinks that Shin deserves the Yakumo title, right? But he has to accept the previous Yakumo's wishes.

This is purely speculation on my part, but I'm considering the notion that perhaps, Kikuhiko would accept a double suicide with Miyokichi if it were to make Shin be the one who gets the Yakumo title. Shin/Sukeroku, who didn't want that to happen, took the blade that was probably meant for Bon.

Depends on who was with Miyokichi first though. But I doubt that Miyokichi premeditated stabbing Shin because she was in shock and that the inflicted wound was shallow (perhaps on purpose).

I'm fairly certain it happened similarly as Bon has said in S1 with Miyokichi wishing to commit lovers' suicide. It's up for grabs whether or not Bon would accept or resist, but I think there is a reason for Bon to be involved in lovers' suicide with Miyokichi, especially if it can make Shin become the next Yakumo by default.
Feb 17, 2017 10:31 PM
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What a marvellous reveal! Bon has been my favourite character since early S1, and while I did not believe ( or didn't want to) he did something to directly cause the 2 deaths, I've been dreading and bracing myself for some reveal in what truly happened that fateful day that might cast him in a really negative light. Now I can totally revel in my enjoyment of his character. Poor Konatsu. The child she was then, acting out of grief, cannot be blamed for any true murderous intent. She needs to know the truth though, and eventually come to terms with it. Yotaro and little Shin will see her through. Bon, having carried the burden all this time, deserves to be at peace when he dies. That peace would probably come knowing that Konatsu can handle the truth and she acknowledges her love and appreciation for him, that he did the right thing. He did what he did mostly to protect her but he also felt the guilt of being indirectly a cause of his best friend's and ex-lover's deaths. Miyokichi was such a broken woman. I do not feel though that Bon was to blame for her mad obsession with him.
Feb 17, 2017 10:37 PM

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Kiku is such a good boi. ;-;
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Feb 17, 2017 10:57 PM

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Rakugo has finally taken my soul. I got nothing left. That was just more than I ever expected, with the way the episode gradually eased you in to season 1's atmosphere, layering in the sense of unease that comes with that inn, and then it just went for the jugular. Poor Matsuda almost had me in tears, and the last six minutes had me frozen in shock. That's four masterpiece episodes in a row, and I don't see it slowing down.

We need Yakumo and Konatsu resolution in a big way, and boy is it gonna hurt.
Feb 18, 2017 12:24 AM

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Really, the two death scenes, it's what annoyed me the most in that show. The first one was a bit far fetched and the second one is rather vague. What happened? Why did she stab him? How? Did the first story was all false or partly false? There is also the fact that Shin who looks like dying in the arms of Bon, is suddenly coming back to life and he's faster than Bon to catch Yurie. I prefer that one to the first, but I still think it's weak.
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Feb 18, 2017 1:04 AM

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damn..this episode was so good..to think there was twist in the actual story...It sad in so many ways.....
Feb 18, 2017 1:30 AM

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Annick said:
Really, the two death scenes, it's what annoyed me the most in that show. The first one was a bit far fetched and the second one is rather vague. What happened? Why did she stab him? How? Did the first story was all false or partly false? There is also the fact that Shin who looks like dying in the arms of Bon, is suddenly coming back to life and he's faster than Bon to catch Yurie. I prefer that one to the first, but I still think it's weak.


Well, Shin loved Yurie. She was falling to her death. Bon was clearly frozen in shock thus slowing his reaction time. I don't think it's too far that Shin was able to rush to her right away at all. She's the mother of his kid and the love of his life. If I had someone like that, I don't care how badly injured I am, I'm going to try and save them no matter what. And that's exactly what Shin did. (We also don't know how exactly deep his stab wound was.)

And... I think you're being a bit too impatient? It's vague because they were using all this time to build up to it. They're not just gonna dump everything on us. They're going to keep going at a good pace and slowly reveal everything one by one. They literally just revealed the truth behind their deaths, which is something we all didn't see coming. Of course we are all wondering what happened and why Yurie stabbed Shin. Everything should be revealed in the following episodes. But from Matsuda and Yotaro's reactions, I think it's safe to assume that the "first" death was completely false. As Matsuda said, Bon made up that story to protect Konatsu. As for how much truth there actually was, I can't say it with 100% certainty of course. We won't see until later this season. I also agree that comments #17 and #29 had good theories as well.
Feb 18, 2017 4:04 AM

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this might be the best episode of Shouwa genroku rakugo. just beautiful and amazing
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Feb 18, 2017 5:48 AM

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Great to see the ep. 12 performance at the inn again, only from Yota's perspective. He seems shocked by both of them. Also nice to know the truth about Sukeroku's and Miyokichi's deaths; would make sense that stabbing occurs/Konatsu was there.
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Feb 18, 2017 6:57 AM

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The best episode so far, for sure. Seeing the young Yakumo' s rakugo, Hatsutaro's rakugo, how Myiokichi was before going to Tokyo ...

It's AOTS already.
Feb 18, 2017 7:30 AM

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Mostly a slow episode , but then that twists happened.
The truth about Sukeroku and Miyokichi deaths was very shocking and makes Yakumo Yuurakutei an even better character than he already was.

With this epsiode it's definitely AOTS already.
Feb 18, 2017 7:31 AM

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I just want to throw out there, that we very briefly saw the scene of Kikuhiko holding the bloody Sukeroku way back in the premiere of season 1. The series hinted that Yakumo's story wasn't the truth before he even told it. Still, this is a pretty dramatic shock, I can say honestly my thoughts on the tragedy did not include Konatsu being such a crucial instigator in it. Crushing stuff, I love this show.
Feb 18, 2017 7:48 AM

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Damn, that flashback of Sukeroku's death was quite heavy.


Feb 18, 2017 8:19 AM

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WHAT THE HELL DID I JUST SEE. OMG. ;____________________;
Feb 18, 2017 9:21 AM

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Oh my anime goddess! So, that is what really happened. I'm traumatized. I suspected that something was off because of the flashbacks from s1 vs. Kikuhiko's account to Yota looked different. I now see Kikuhiko in an even more awesomely distinguished light than I did before.

Still, Konatsu needs to know the truth so that Kikuhiko does not undeservedly die being despised and misunderstood.

The crying Yota hugging Konatsu... If only she knew...
Feb 18, 2017 9:24 AM

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Is it bad that I laughed at what "actually happened" in the past? I'm sorry, but it all happened so fast and then she just passed out I couldn't help but laugh at how convenient that was.





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Feb 18, 2017 9:38 AM

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Okay, so let me tell you, I cried a fair bit in season 1 when we were told of how Sukeroku and Miyokichi died, but oh lord, I am now a full on sobbing heap lying on the floor. This episode ruined me, it actually broke me beyond repair. Excuse my melodrama, but I am currently Shook™

Konatsu's shark-like smile toward the end made me cry even more. She's her father's daughter after all. I am dead. I am deceased.
Ok lol sorry but as I've expressed a million times already; I'm a mess right now.
Feb 18, 2017 10:18 AM
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All I can say about this episode is: Oh my fucking God!
The story was tragic enough, you know! You didn't have to do that to me!

Other than the twist, this episode did make me feel nostalgic even though I saw season 1 just a couple months ago. Don't know how that's possible but I liked it.
Feb 18, 2017 11:43 AM

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atsumu said:
Annick said:
Really, the two death scenes, it's what annoyed me the most in that show. The first one was a bit far fetched and the second one is rather vague. What happened? Why did she stab him? How? Did the first story was all false or partly false? There is also the fact that Shin who looks like dying in the arms of Bon, is suddenly coming back to life and he's faster than Bon to catch Yurie. I prefer that one to the first, but I still think it's weak.


Well, Shin loved Yurie. She was falling to her death. Bon was clearly frozen in shock thus slowing his reaction time. I don't think it's too far that Shin was able to rush to her right away at all. She's the mother of his kid and the love of his life. If I had someone like that, I don't care how badly injured I am, I'm going to try and save them no matter what. And that's exactly what Shin did. (We also don't know how exactly deep his stab wound was.)

And... I think you're being a bit too impatient? It's vague because they were using all this time to build up to it. They're not just gonna dump everything on us. They're going to keep going at a good pace and slowly reveal everything one by one. They literally just revealed the truth behind their deaths, which is something we all didn't see coming. Of course we are all wondering what happened and why Yurie stabbed Shin. Everything should be revealed in the following episodes. But from Matsuda and Yotaro's reactions, I think it's safe to assume that the "first" death was completely false. As Matsuda said, Bon made up that story to protect Konatsu. As for how much truth there actually was, I can't say it with 100% certainty of course. We won't see until later this season. I also agree that comments #17 and #29 had good theories as well.


I don't have a problem with Shin gathering his last forces to save Yurie, it's how she draw it that annoys me, he looks almost unconscious in one scene but looks in his normal state in the next. We miss a progression here.

Edit: I re-watched the scene in loop for a while, noted all details and it makes more sense now. There were a few details that I missed like Miyokichi getting up, and Shin grabbing Bon shirt who was about to get to Miyo.

I might be impatient, but I also took a look at the manga (which is finished) and I'm afraid that we won't know more about this (not sure). What I wonder is if Bon just appeared after the fact and has nothing to do with it or was with Yurie like in the first story and Shin appeared after. I will take a look at those theories... ;)
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Feb 18, 2017 1:37 PM
The Shrike

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Wow. I did not see this coming in this chapter. Yakumo has been hiding from Konatsu all these years that she was to blame for the death of her parents. What a revelation! Now I hope that we at one point find out why she stabbed him.
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Feb 18, 2017 2:00 PM

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damn that was a heavy revelation
Feb 18, 2017 2:55 PM

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So it wasn't a suicide. HOLY FUCK.

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