...why is there no equivalent of certain anime in western media?

You're acting like western animation hasn't tried to copy anime years ago when it literally did that back in the 2000s. You must be too young to know/remember but back in like the mid-2000s every western cartoon was somehow inspired by anime either in aesthetic or genre. I could give you hundreds of examples but just to name a few: ATLA, Teen Titans, Ben-10, Xiaolin Showdown, Kim Possible, American Dragon: Jake Long, etc

Even stuff like Miraculous, Big Hero Six, Kung Fu Panda, etc are examples of anime inspired westerns cartoons. Hell even Steven Universe and Adventure Time take cues from anime

So, no. The problem isn't a lack of anime in western media. The very fact that we are all here means that anime is already pretty popular on this side of the globe. Investing further in it wouldn't more than it already does for Disney

@Henriqueta All those shows are the same action based monster of the week shows. Are there any sports focused animation? Asking because idk.

Are you sure this isn't a "The frog in a well is not aware of the ocean." As in you didn't search enough?
If you are asking for "similars". I am sure you can discover something like "Rocket Power", "Go Figure", "Ice Princess" or "Kiss and Cry" for Medalist. I am not familiar with teenager gay body snatchers movie, but swapping the person trope is cliche in horror and sci fi movies, it is bound to exist some.
Different cultures will do things different, so I am not sure what you will say is similar, or different. I don't remember any anime like Truman Show for example. So it is open space to someone come around saying: Why anime is not able to touch some themes from Truman Show?

@Henriqueta All those shows are the same action based monster of the week shows. Are there any sports focused animation? Asking because idk.

I'd argue that if you were to take Western media fully, including motion picture, television series, literature etc. you'd find all of these sub-genres represented to some degree. The mistake is always going to be a like-to-like comparison between anime and Western animation as (this has come up in other topics), anime is a much larger percentage of Japanese media output than Western animation is.

I actually watched an interview by the creators of The Summer Hikaru Died on Youtube recently where they were incredibly smug and certain that there were creating a story that was different from Western horror, being about atmosphere and suspense, and not like the jump scares you get in all of Western horror. Which is a fine narrative, if you want to pretend even recent offerings like The Lighthouse or Midsommar don't exist or even classics like The Shining or The Wicker Man.

(I know that last paragraph wasn't directly relevant to your question, but you mentioning TSHD brought it to mind, and reminded me that a lot of creatives like to think they've made something a lot more special and unique than it actually is)

I'd argue that if you were to take Western media fully, including motion picture, television series, literature etc. you'd find all of these sub-genres represented to some degree. The mistake is always going to be a like-to-like comparison between anime and Western animation as (this has come up in other topics), anime is a much larger percentage of Japanese media output than Western animation is.

I actually watched an interview by the creators of The Summer Hikaru Died on Youtube recently where they were incredibly smug and certain that there were creating a story that was different from Western horror, being about atmosphere and suspense, and not like the jump scares you get in all of Western horror. Which is a fine narrative, if you want to pretend even recent offerings like The Lighthouse or Midsommar don't exist or even classics like The Shining or The Wicker Man.

(I know that last paragraph wasn't directly relevant to your question, but you mentioning TSHD brought it to mind, and reminded me that a lot of creatives like to think they've made something a lot more special and unique than it actually is)

You want what cheap self insert fantasy stories? Yeah those exist in literature. Of course you have the entire romantasy genre, however, it exists for men too. I mean I have read a few books in the genre, such as "His Orc Charioteer Bride". I guess in that regard sure, anime isn't going to give me my buff female orc waifu...though that isn't what you are claiming.

Also what about Medalist is so unique lol? I haven't watched it. It seems to me just a typical sports anime around figure skating. If we are talking sports media, frankly anime is kinda limited compared to what you will find in film/TV, due to it's constant focus on YA stuff. You can't find stuff like Moneyball in this medium, for instance. It's incredibly rare to find media about the pro scene, which to me is the most interesting part.

Once again, Wiru makes some massive assumption about other media, and claims anime is unique, while lacking background information in other media. There are only a few kinds of stories, that I think are somewhat unique to anime, and even those kinds of stories I am starting to see pop up in Western fiction (Iyashikei -> Cozy Fiction).

Again unless you are just talking about why haven't these works been made in animation..then sure you would have a point, though that is more to do with the West not taking animation/comic forms seriously. In terms of general storytelling these POVs, seem to be the nature of people who need to actually branch out of anime, or at least stop claiming myths about other entertainment mediums, which only highlights their own lack of knowledge. It's not like I read novels, even close to what I do with anime (discounting my 40k/SW binges) however, it's not hard to find works that can appeal to similar genres/kinds of storytelling anime does. Honestly, even as a fan of anime, this constant belief that anime is so unique is amazing to me. It's like you guys are arguing the norm is just art house stuff like Lain or FLCL (works that are yeah very unique).

Like Wiru, I could easily make a similar argument too "why doesn't anime do more of x, compared to x medium" I have seen tons of arguments in the inverse. Why doesn't the medium make more works like the Expanse or Suneater? Personally I would like more stories like that in the medium.

This mentality literally describes the anime industry lol. How is the anime industry not risk averse and slow in pursuing novelties? Risk adverse defines this industry for better or worse, the same genres production committees and publishing houses rely on, are the exact same from like the 80s....nothing has changed. it's still battle shonen, romcoms, sports shows. The target demo is still YA.

Are you guys seriously arguing anime/manga isn't dominated by corporate influences lol? Time to get out of delusional land. Your weeb mentality isn't reflective of the world.

I can go watch actual sex scenes in my "Western media", and it doesn't have to actually be porn. Japan is a country that lynches their pop idols for ever having a boyfriend, Western media has their pop idols flaunting around in the most sex crazed productions lol......again all you guys talk about is otaku shit, while pretending a conservative country is a libertarian brothel fantasy land lol just because they have your precious lolis, which is only embraced by a weird sub set culture that isn't respected over there anyway. When it comes to casual nudity and sex, there is way more of it in Western media. Hey why do you think hentai perpetuate stereotypes that Western people are easy, it's because we are seen as more open to sex than socially conservative Japan. The reason people get irritated by slow burn anime romances, is because we in the West are more open to affection early.

People may demonize the male gaze however, they absolutely profit off it. Yeah even in Western media. Give me a mainstream JRPG that is more casual with sex than Baldurs Gate or Cyberpunk 2077....will wait.

I mean look at the difference between otome isekai works, and romantasy for women in the West. It's romantasy/hockey romances that has all the orgies.

...that one shitty Nicholas Cage film?

I think we should be gracious in this regard. There is more entertainment produced than we have free time in our limited life spans to consume. At this point, browsing the web like wiki articles, blog posts, forums, TV tropes pages, Youtube reviews or video essays, etc, just to look for a rundown on entertainment could consume all of your free time and you will never be finished either. It is unreasonable to expect someone to be aware of everything (particularly if it is foreign or old or niche) let alone to have actually consumed everything. There is more to life than consuming entertainment. Also, people who produce corpo art like animation or videogames tend to not have that much free time to consume other art.

You want what cheap self insert fantasy stories? Yeah those exist in literature. Of course you have the entire romantasy genre, however, it exists for men too. I mean I have read a few books in the genre, such as "His Orc Charioteer Bride". I guess in that regard sure, anime isn't going to give me my buff female orc waifu...though that isn't what you are claiming.

Also what about Medalist is so unique lol? I haven't watched it. It seems to me just a typical sports anime around figure skating. If we are talking sports media, frankly anime is kinda limited compared to what you will find in film/TV, due to it's constant focus on YA stuff. You can't find stuff like Moneyball in this medium, for instance. It's incredibly rare to find media about the pro scene, which to me is the most interesting part.

Once again, Wiru makes some massive assumption about other media, and claims anime is unique, while lacking background information in other media. There are only a few kinds of stories, that I think are somewhat unique to anime, and even those kinds of stories I am starting to see pop up in Western fiction (Iyashikei -> Cozy Fiction).

Again unless you are just talking about why haven't these works been made in animation..then sure you would have a point, though that is more to do with the West not taking animation/comic forms seriously. In terms of general storytelling these POVs, seem to be the nature of people who need to actually branch out of anime, or at least stop claiming myths about other entertainment mediums, which only highlights their own lack of knowledge. It's not like I read novels, even close to what I do with anime (discounting my 40k/SW binges) however, it's not hard to find works that can appeal to similar genres/kinds of storytelling anime does. Honestly, even as a fan of anime, this constant belief that anime is so unique is amazing to me. It's like you guys are arguing the norm is just art house stuff like Lain or FLCL (works that are yeah very unique).

Like Wiru, I could easily make a similar argument too "why doesn't anime do more of x, compared to x medium" I have seen tons of arguments in the inverse. Why doesn't the medium make more works like the Expanse or Suneater? Personally I would like more stories like that in the medium.

This mentality literally describes the anime industry lol. How is the anime industry not risk averse and slow in pursuing novelties? Risk adverse defines this industry for better or worse, the same genres production committees and publishing houses rely on, are the exact same from like the 80s....nothing has changed. it's still battle shonen, romcoms, sports shows. The target demo is still YA.

Are you guys seriously arguing anime/manga isn't dominated by corporate influences lol? Time to get out of delusional land. Your weeb mentality isn't reflective of the world.

I can go watch actual sex scenes in my "Western media", and it doesn't have to actually be porn. Japan is a country that lynches their pop idols for ever having a boyfriend, Western media has their pop idols flaunting around in the most sex crazed productions lol......again all you guys talk about is otaku shit, while pretending a conservative country is a libertarian brothel fantasy land lol just because they have your precious lolis, which is only embraced by a weird sub set culture that isn't respected over there anyway. When it comes to casual nudity and sex, there is way more of it in Western media. Hey why do you think hentai perpetuate stereotypes that Western people are easy, it's because we are seen as more open to sex than socially conservative Japan. The reason people get irritated by slow burn anime romances, is because we in the West are more open to affection early.

People may demonize the male gaze however, they absolutely profit off it. Yeah even in Western media. Give me a mainstream JRPG that is more casual with sex than Baldurs Gate or Cyberpunk 2077....will wait.

I mean look at the difference between otome isekai works, and romantasy for women in the West. It's romantasy/hockey romances that has all the orgies.

This is not anime exclusive. I can read a Western romance story about chariot racing....and let's be honest, most rom coms are the same HS Japan story we have seen a million times.

The only thing that is kinda unique is Uma, and that really has to just do with the fact that it's animated. Everything else you can compare to Western films and stories about sports.

You can say it's less conventional however, Joe while came out earlier, is very similar to plots from Raging Bull or Rocky. Ping Pong the Animation, while very good is just a classic coming of age narrative, and Tsubasa is also very conventional besides the OP unrealistic sport abilities. Moneyball is more unconventional by looking at the management side of things, compared to those examples you cited.

Plus why does it have to mainstream Western media? A lot of anime we talk about are niche too, and not the big heavy hitters. I can talk about niche Western entertainment, or is anime only represented by stuff like Demon Slayer?

Yeah that's called bias.

So.....just like anime lol The only point you have is market tested IPs, and one anime does this too. Secondly, it's usually only a big issue in the block buster movie scene, where they are investing way more resources into a film, and therefore must be risk adverse. That isn't all "Western media" which Wiru seems to want to talk about.

Nah fantasy isekai is more creatively dead than anything I see in the current Western fantasy landscape. There is a reason I abstain from usually watching those kinds of shows. I like the medium however, there is so much creatively dead shit in it, just like every medium.

It's Weebs that want to compare anime to literally every single bit of Western media out there, not me lol. I am not the one making dumb comparisons.

And? Who cares. IDC if otaku can't get their dicks hard at BGIII. I am saying this narrative that the West are full of prudes and Japan is just libertine sex paradise is fucking stupid, and the weebs that believe it are insanely delusional, biased and this opinion only comes about due to the average weeb's lack of media knowledge.

Are you suggesting western media gets your dick hard? If so, good for you. But that's never happened to me, so I must be watching the wrong things.

Yeah Western porn VNs are usually better than JP VNs in my experiance. More visuals per text.

@BilboBaggins365
I thought you were comparing works of non-porn.

You want what cheap self insert fantasy stories? Yeah those exist in literature. Of course you have the entire romantasy genre, however, it exists for men too. I mean I have read a few books in the genre, such as "His Orc Charioteer Bride". I guess in that regard sure, anime isn't going to give me my buff female orc waifu...though that isn't what you are claiming.

Also what about Medalist is so unique lol? I haven't watched it. It seems to me just a typical sports anime around figure skating. If we are talking sports media, frankly anime is kinda limited compared to what you will find in film/TV, due to it's constant focus on YA stuff. You can't find stuff like Moneyball in this medium, for instance. It's incredibly rare to find media about the pro scene, which to me is the most interesting part.

Once again, Wiru makes some massive assumption about other media, and claims anime is unique, while lacking background information in other media. There are only a few kinds of stories, that I think are somewhat unique to anime, and even those kinds of stories I am starting to see pop up in Western fiction (Iyashikei -> Cozy Fiction).

Again unless you are just talking about why haven't these works been made in animation..then sure you would have a point, though that is more to do with the West not taking animation/comic forms seriously. In terms of general storytelling these POVs, seem to be the nature of people who need to actually branch out of anime, or at least stop claiming myths about other entertainment mediums, which only highlights their own lack of knowledge. It's not like I read novels, even close to what I do with anime (discounting my 40k/SW binges) however, it's not hard to find works that can appeal to similar genres/kinds of storytelling anime does. Honestly, even as a fan of anime, this constant belief that anime is so unique is amazing to me. It's like you guys are arguing the norm is just art house stuff like Lain or FLCL (works that are yeah very unique).

Like Wiru, I could easily make a similar argument too "why doesn't anime do more of x, compared to x medium" I have seen tons of arguments in the inverse. Why doesn't the medium make more works like the Expanse or Suneater? Personally I would like more stories like that in the medium.

This mentality literally describes the anime industry lol. How is the anime industry not risk averse and slow in pursuing novelties? Risk adverse defines this industry for better or worse, the same genres production committees and publishing houses rely on, are the exact same from like the 80s....nothing has changed. it's still battle shonen, romcoms, sports shows. The target demo is still YA.

Are you guys seriously arguing anime/manga isn't dominated by corporate influences lol? Time to get out of delusional land. Your weeb mentality isn't reflective of the world.

I can go watch actual sex scenes in my "Western media", and it doesn't have to actually be porn. Japan is a country that lynches their pop idols for ever having a boyfriend, Western media has their pop idols flaunting around in the most sex crazed productions lol......again all you guys talk about is otaku shit, while pretending a conservative country is a libertarian brothel fantasy land lol just because they have your precious lolis, which is only embraced by a weird sub set culture that isn't respected over there anyway. When it comes to casual nudity and sex, there is way more of it in Western media. Hey why do you think hentai perpetuate stereotypes that Western people are easy, it's because we are seen as more open to sex than socially conservative Japan. The reason people get irritated by slow burn anime romances, is because we in the West are more open to affection early.

People may demonize the male gaze however, they absolutely profit off it. Yeah even in Western media. Give me a mainstream JRPG that is more casual with sex than Baldurs Gate or Cyberpunk 2077....will wait.

I mean look at the difference between otome isekai works, and romantasy for women in the West. It's romantasy/hockey romances that has all the orgies.

You're acting like western animation hasn't tried to copy anime years ago when it literally did that back in the 2000s. You must be too young to know/remember but back in like the mid-2000s every western cartoon was somehow inspired by anime either in aesthetic or genre. I could give you hundreds of examples but just to name a few: ATLA, Teen Titans, Ben-10, Xiaolin Showdown, Kim Possible, American Dragon: Jake Long, etc

Even stuff like Miraculous, Big Hero Six, Kung Fu Panda, etc are examples of anime inspired westerns cartoons. Hell even Steven Universe and Adventure Time take cues from anime

So, no. The problem isn't a lack of anime in western media. The very fact that we are all here means that anime is already pretty popular on this side of the globe. Investing further in it wouldn't more than it already does for Disney

My guess is that there are somewhat similar equivalents to most of these ideas in Western media, but with slightly different formats.

Medalist, for example. There are dozens of docu-series which basically surround the same concept. Rather than being fiction, western media has chosen to follow the real stories of athletes and coaches which an anime like Medalist is emulating. There are fictional series like Ted Lasso or movies like Rudy. Whether or not you consider them to be the same idea is up to you.

For The Summer Hikaru Died, the synopsis doesn't sound drastically different from something in the same realm as the extremely popular sci-fi mystery thriller series Stranger Things. I've not watched the anime series, so I can only base it off the synopsis, but I think that's fair enough if we're just looking for something roughly the same ideas.

Ultimately the West, America in particular as the primary media exporter of the region, has pretty drastically different morals and ideals compared to Japan, so the subject matter just differs drastically as a result. It's not that some series can't be created in the West. They just weren't. Japan also didn't spawn their own Hollywood equivalent during the 80s when they had seemingly unlimited capital and abition. Why's that? The answers are probably the same.

Western media is essentially very corporate limiting that possibility. Catering to men with harem is not allowed in corpo culture. Male gaze in general is demonized. Gov link to corpos also limits what is allowed on top of all the tv rules which restricts western media to ever copy anime format.

Tldr: Western media worships dreamland and shows compliance through dei. Western media is ingrained in the swamp of slop.

You want what cheap self insert fantasy stories? Yeah those exist in literature. Of course you have the entire romantasy genre, however, it exists for men too. I mean I have read a few books in the genre, such as "His Orc Charioteer Bride". I guess in that regard sure, anime isn't going to give me my buff female orc waifu...though that isn't what you are claiming.

Also what about Medalist is so unique lol? I haven't watched it. It seems to me just a typical sports anime around figure skating. If we are talking sports media, frankly anime is kinda limited compared to what you will find in film/TV, due to it's constant focus on YA stuff. You can't find stuff like Moneyball in this medium, for instance. It's incredibly rare to find media about the pro scene, which to me is the most interesting part.

Once again, Wiru makes some massive assumption about other media, and claims anime is unique, while lacking background information in other media. There are only a few kinds of stories, that I think are somewhat unique to anime, and even those kinds of stories I am starting to see pop up in Western fiction (Iyashikei -> Cozy Fiction).

Again unless you are just talking about why haven't these works been made in animation..then sure you would have a point, though that is more to do with the West not taking animation/comic forms seriously. In terms of general storytelling these POVs, seem to be the nature of people who need to actually branch out of anime, or at least stop claiming myths about other entertainment mediums, which only highlights their own lack of knowledge. It's not like I read novels, even close to what I do with anime (discounting my 40k/SW binges) however, it's not hard to find works that can appeal to similar genres/kinds of storytelling anime does. Honestly, even as a fan of anime, this constant belief that anime is so unique is amazing to me. It's like you guys are arguing the norm is just art house stuff like Lain or FLCL (works that are yeah very unique).

Like Wiru, I could easily make a similar argument too "why doesn't anime do more of x, compared to x medium" I have seen tons of arguments in the inverse. Why doesn't the medium make more works like the Expanse or Suneater? Personally I would like more stories like that in the medium.

This mentality literally describes the anime industry lol. How is the anime industry not risk averse and slow in pursuing novelties? Risk adverse defines this industry for better or worse, the same genres production committees and publishing houses rely on, are the exact same from like the 80s....nothing has changed. it's still battle shonen, romcoms, sports shows. The target demo is still YA.

Are you guys seriously arguing anime/manga isn't dominated by corporate influences lol? Time to get out of delusional land. Your weeb mentality isn't reflective of the world.

I can go watch actual sex scenes in my "Western media", and it doesn't have to actually be porn. Japan is a country that lynches their pop idols for ever having a boyfriend, Western media has their pop idols flaunting around in the most sex crazed productions lol......again all you guys talk about is otaku shit, while pretending a conservative country is a libertarian brothel fantasy land lol just because they have your precious lolis, which is only embraced by a weird sub set culture that isn't respected over there anyway. When it comes to casual nudity and sex, there is way more of it in Western media. Hey why do you think hentai perpetuate stereotypes that Western people are easy, it's because we are seen as more open to sex than socially conservative Japan. The reason people get irritated by slow burn anime romances, is because we in the West are more open to affection early.

People may demonize the male gaze however, they absolutely profit off it. Yeah even in Western media. Give me a mainstream JRPG that is more casual with sex than Baldurs Gate or Cyberpunk 2077....will wait.

I mean look at the difference between otome isekai works, and romantasy for women in the West. It's romantasy/hockey romances that has all the orgies.

The golden age of American comics was murdered in cold blood by the Comic Code Authority in 1954 which forced authors to censor their works as a result of a moral panic over comic books containing graphic content. This panic was spearheaded by "Seduction of the Innocent", a book written by Fredric Wertham. This is a big part of where that whole "comics/cartoons are for children" stigma comes from, American authors were basically disallowed from creating anything other than capeshit for decades up until the 1990s or so.

Japan meanwhile was going in the opposite direction with the Gekiga movement which rose to prominence throughout the late 50s, 60s and 70s. These were a kind of manga that focused on more mature themes for older audiences. Much of the principles from this would later absorbed into manga as a whole. Manga of course being the most common place that Anime are adapted from.

I don't know why they're struggling... Young adult men are the easiest demographic to appeal. Just have an OP main character that's a straight guy, and have him kill a bunch of people and be badass. Basically, just make another John Wick. Bonus points if you cast John Cena as the MC.

@LuxuriousHeart Evidently they're not as simple to appeal to as people think, especially when the company has been actively trying to shun them...

That's because it's impossible and also there is no need for there to be, simple as that. There is significant cultural gap and anime can't be replicated in the West, just like how western media can't (and don't need to) be replicated in anime. The mentality of Japanese anime industry and Western media industry don't match at all. For example, exposition is extremely rare in Western media and casual emotional character interactions (very common in anime) is seen as "melodrama" in the West. "Cringe" behaviour is also completely absent in the West outside of dedicated sitcoms (and even there it feels forced rather than organic), whereas in anime you can always find cringe humour (unless it's the MOST super serious anime).

Also, lmao at the people associating fanservice and sexiness with intercourse or other sexual activities by default, the most hilarious thing I read in this thread. I'm actually glad anime isn't filled with gratuitous sex scenes outside of plot relevance.