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| THIS IS A MANGA ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING BEYOND THIS CHAPTER. ---------------------------------------- Oo, I love Luffy's encouragement this chapter. This is the type of attitude I like to see from this series. |
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| Chiffon and Bebe were great in this chapter! Luffy power up incoming? Pudding’s reaction to Sanji being badass was hilarious!  |
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| More speed feats for Sanji and WereCarrot incoming. Although given Bege was able to snipe him from about 100 meters with a pistol I wonder how strong Oven even is. I appreciate Sanji actually considered the plan being put in jeopardy and not straight up flying off to rescue Chiffon gungho. I was almost certain he would balls everything up because of his chivalry. I don't care how much people try to argue its a character trait, Zeff messed that boy up with this chivalry nonsense. The sea has many female pirates, one of whom is a Yonko, and he drills it into his head never to harm a woman even if she's his opponent. Didn't the Baratie get pirate customers? At the very least, Judge has him beaten on that because Sanji saw no reason to treat girls differently when he was young. Not too thrilled about Luffy's foreshadowed asspull though. |
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| Chapter was fine until Luffy started talking shit. Hope no plot convenience kicks in |
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| Lol Bege sniped the fuck out of Oven, that's what happens when you mess with his wife. It was also cool to see Sanji get involved briefly so that he could help out Pound when he took a stand against Oven. Looks like Luffy might have a power-up on the way, if that Rayleigh flashback, and what Luffy said afterward, was any indication. I was so confused at first when Carrot mentioned the full moon, but then someone pointed out what Wanda said all the way back during the Zou arc when she told Luffy that he was lucky he didn't encounter the Minks during a moonlit night. It's crazy how that line seemed random and forgettable, when it was actually foreshadowing what appears to be a future power-up for Carrot. Unfortunately, I also think this full moon thing will somehow be used to prevent Pedro from dying (I'm willing to bet he's still barely clinging to life, but then the full moon will do something to him). |
| People on MAL refuse to actually enjoy watching anime. Your taste in anime isn't a personality trait. |
TCRfanatic said: MoonStar9 said: Not too thrilled about Luffy's foreshadowed asspull though. How can something that has been foreshadowed be an asspull? lol That question has no logic behind it. How can it not be an asspull to defeat someone stronger than you are in every category just because the author alluded it will happen? Mentioning it will happen doesn't justify it happening. |
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| I seem to be the only one but i am thrilled to see luffy getting stronger, everytime he fights strong opponents he learns from them and surpasses them that's why i love him <3 Why is everyone so angry? Even when he was fighting Lucci he learned gear 2nd by observing the CP9 technique. That's the attitude the future pirate king should have! Go get them! |
CrookedPanther said: Obviously a fanboy that can't see the logical side...how can he get a power-up after having the piss beat out of him and only grasping the concept of future observation haki a few chapters ago? That's ludicrously bullshit from any point of view.I seem to be the only one but i am thrilled to see luffy getting stronger, everytime he fights strong opponents he learns from them and surpasses them that's why i love him <3 Why is everyone so angry? Even when he was fighting Lucci he learned gear 2nd by observing the CP9 technique. That's the attitude the future pirate king should have! Go get them! |
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| Advanced Observation Haki=sees the future,I think theres more stage to haki could be 3 or 4 stages,might be cool if Advanced Armament Haki=Invincible armor that shoot laser like rayleigh did Advanced Conquer Haki=Mind control,literally conquer other person completely |
| Hi,please be patient,thank you. |
TCRfanatic said: MoonStar9 said: That question has no logic behind it. How can it not be an asspull to defeat someone stronger than you are in every category just because the author alluded it will happen? Mentioning it will happen doesn't justify it happening. As far as I know an asspull is something that comes out of thin air so it makes no sense using this (buzz)word in this case. And how in the world is the main protagonist of a battle manga defeating an opponent that is stronger than him weird in any way? Its battle manga 101 that the weakness of the stronger opponent gets exploited by the protagonist or that the protagonist learns something during the fight and starts using it himself. If you call that bullshit I don't know why you are reading a manga like this. No. An asspull is a Deus ex Machina. A plot device or powerup that gives a character the ability to win or survive in an otherwise sure-lose scenario. It is not dependent on whether or not its foreshadowed. Foreshadowing that the MC will win and survive in a Shounen manga is utterly pointless because we know he will. The MC winning against insurmountable odds isn't odd, but that doesn't mean it's not a Deus ex Machina. This is what happened in Fairy Tail all the time. The main characters of a battle manga asspulled their way through fights they should have lost. It is not "battle manga 101", it's "poor writing 101". I know Luffy will win but he doesn't have to win ALL the time, especially at the cost of the manga's quality. No weakness should allow Luffy who has 2 years of Haki training to defeat one of the strongest people in the manga. When I complain about the short fights people tell me the manga isn't about fights. When I complain about the asspulls, people say its a battle manga. Never a fault with One Piece, it's always me. |
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TCRfanatic said: And who says it's nothing to complain about? It's fucking stupid. Same with Luffy learning gear 2 and 3...fuckall explanation to how he managed to do it and no foreshadowing from Oda's part yet the fanboys wanna call him Goda...the cringe. People are just willing to accept this shit...OP fans are stupid.How about in the same way he got a power up after getting the piss beat out of him by Lucci at Water 7? lol I don't really get why this is something to complain about now. One Piece is like that. Take it or leave it. MoonStar9 said: Because they are easily entertained by the "masterpiece" they call One PieceWhen I complain about the short fights people tell me the manga isn't about fights. When I complain about the asspulls, people say its a battle manga. Never a fault with One Piece, it's always me. |
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| that sanji, he's steal the spot light once again. so thats why Luffy never give up. it's because the more extreme, the more stronger he's become. |
| The chapter was pretty cool. Sanji landing a good hit on Oven. Bege shoots Oven far away shows that he has some confidence in his shots or accuracy, and not someone to underestimate at all. I think I can understand where many people are coming from with this chapter's ending. I was wondering myself a long time ago. Unless it was hinted at. Can a Haki strength improve when fighting strong opponents, or when in extreme battle conditions (As Rayleigh says at the end of this chapter) with the person using it, be it using Kenbunshoku, Busoshoku, Haoshoku Haki or when you are using it at all against any opponent? I know this is not canon, but does anybody relate to Luffy fighting World in an ova special 3D2Y? I remember Luffy fought World using Haki against someone who has a better mastery than him, but eventually bypassed his defenses. And World says that he is getting stronger every time he is fighting him. So I question if Haki improvement can be much faster when fighting stronger opponents along with those who have better mastery or strength on their Haki. I can see where people are getting at here there is no denying that since that ending of the chapter really ticked people off. As a One Piece Fan who reads and watches it, I can understand a little where they are getting at. |
TCRfanatic said: Stopped reading right there. Please educate yourself a bit about the words you are using. When you say we can expect the protagonist winning then it can't be Deus ex Machina since it is something that happens unexpectedly. For the last time, asspulls and Dues ex Machinas are not characterized by expectedness. They are simply plot devices used to get a character out of a sure-lose scenario. |
MoonStar9Nov 23, 2017 8:10 AM
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TCRfanatic said: >Checks out profileYou sound pretty salty. From reading your comments I can already see that you are biased towards One Piece for some reason or the other. >Majority of One Piece in favourites >Calls me biased because I said something it can;t argue against I swear it's like the One Piece community are a bunch of morons living in Oda's asshole |
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Isterio said: Thoughts on the chapter 4/5. We all know Luffy will beat Katakuri. I hoped for a draw but we can´t have that now with Oda can we? The formula is too precious. However it´s this chapter I rate not the future ones. Gave it a 4/5 as well because I enjoyed it well enough save for the last page. Oda could simply have Luffy lose and grow from this fight, but he won't will he? |
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TCRfanatic said: I facepalm the existence of you peopleWow, I have One Piece in my favourites because I like One Piece. What an absolute shocker! :) Dude, just stop. |
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| Great chapter. Bege and Sanji were awesome, the speed save and that snipe were great. That Pudding reaction. xD Interesting that Carrot mentioned the full moon, I had totally forgotten about Wanda mentioning a full moon in Zou but damn, I'm excited for what's coming. Nice little foreshadow there. Luffy at the end with the Rayleigh flashback was my favorite part of the chapter. I think having them draw or Luffy lose out would be the more interesting outcome but if Luffy wins I'd love that too. Fight to transcend! |
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| Loved the panel with Pudding's nosebleed ^^ That Oven dude seems pretty tough even getting up after that headshot o.O Surprised Luffy got away from Big Mom, and still intends to defeat Katakuri lol |
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| Oven pretty tough and bege coming for chiffon. haki gets stronger through battle. |
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| I'm growing more and more fond of Bege,what a great guy. Looking forward to see Carrot in full power and Luffy who's going to surpass his limits too. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
| Well, I prefer anime to have logic, but well, whatever. Oda sets the rules. "Haki blossoms through extreme battle", or something like that. Honestly, I think it's the same for most of the shounen series. Most protagonists win battles by a clutch. At least Oda tries to set the rules, and make the "context" more believable. Luffy needs to get to the level of a yonkou at some point, and for that he needs to defeat at least a very strong subordinate of a yonkou. I'm sure that there are better ways to get the MC to that point, but I'm satisfied with what we get. Heck, we haven't even seen what the actual fight will be about, even if it really seems like a foreshadowing. I think we should just wait it out, and evaluate this entire arc afterwards. |
MoonStar9 said: TCRfanatic said: As far as I know an asspull is something that comes out of thin air so it makes no sense using this (buzz)word in this case. And how in the world is the main protagonist of a battle manga defeating an opponent that is stronger than him weird in any way? Its battle manga 101 that the weakness of the stronger opponent gets exploited by the protagonist or that the protagonist learns something during the fight and starts using it himself. If you call that bullshit I don't know why you are reading a manga like this. No. An asspull is a Deus ex Machina. A plot device or powerup that gives a character the ability to win or survive in an otherwise sure-lose scenario. It is not dependent on whether or not its foreshadowed. Foreshadowing that the MC will win and survive in a Shounen manga is utterly pointless because we know he will. The MC winning against insurmountable odds isn't odd, but that doesn't mean it's not a Deus ex Machina. This is what happened in Fairy Tail all the time. The main characters of a battle manga asspulled their way through fights they should have lost. It is not "battle manga 101", it's "poor writing 101". I know Luffy will win but he doesn't have to win ALL the time, especially at the cost of the manga's quality. No weakness should allow Luffy who has 2 years of Haki training to defeat one of the strongest people in the manga. When I complain about the short fights people tell me the manga isn't about fights. When I complain about the asspulls, people say its a battle manga. Never a fault with One Piece, it's always me. OP already had an entire 100+ chapter saga (Whitebeard War) where Luffy got his ass handed to him fight after fight which ultimately resulted in the 2 year timeskip. It's not gonna happen again except for 1 or 2 cases light against Yonko if he were to fight them right now. As for it not making sense for Luffy to beat Katakuri, you're basing this on the portrayal of the fight until Luffy went G4, even Luffy himself though Katakuri was invincible until he figured out Observation Haki has a weakness. Doflamingo was a similar case, many, many readers though Luffy couldn't hope to beat Doffy since he was getting his ass kicked in Gear Second and Gear Third didn't work, then Gear 4 happened and Luffy quickly turned the fight in his favor. Right now, G4 Luffy is portrayed as being equal to or slightly stronger than Katakuri when he isn't capable of using Color of Observation, if he can get around that issue, he could win the fight with a fair degree of difficulty. Which still won't be enough for him to harm a Yonko. One other thing to consider, Luffy in G4 broke Doffy's strings holding down his body in place pretty easily, those same strings held down 3rd division commander Jozu of the Whitebeard Pirates from moving for a few seconds and could manipulate the 13th division commander without a problem. Bottom line, G4 Luffy is stronger than your giving him credit for and it wouldn't be inconceivable for him to defeat someone like Katakuri, albeit it won't be easy. If it's possible for Luffy to win, he will win, especially when the only other alternative results in basically the end of the story. |
| I feel bad for Pound. Maybe he'll see Chiffon at the end of the arc. Luffy wants to see in the future now? Intriguing. |
| Mankind knew that they cannot change society. So instead of reflecting on themselves, they blamed the beasts. |
| i wonder what the excuse will given now, excited nevertheless... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| I liked everything to do with sanji in this chapter. It was sort of refreshing to see him pause and think about the grand scheme of things before he blew his shit and dashed in. Got some serious mixed feelings about this luffy power up thats apparently coming lol. I'm still sort of holding out hope that it's going to be a little bit more complex than "serious battle that mc is losing ->insane power-up through battle experience = win" |
| Luffy got me hyped. |
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SuperRed said: MoonStar9 said: No. An asspull is a Deus ex Machina. A plot device or powerup that gives a character the ability to win or survive in an otherwise sure-lose scenario. It is not dependent on whether or not its foreshadowed. Foreshadowing that the MC will win and survive in a Shounen manga is utterly pointless because we know he will. The MC winning against insurmountable odds isn't odd, but that doesn't mean it's not a Deus ex Machina. This is what happened in Fairy Tail all the time. The main characters of a battle manga asspulled their way through fights they should have lost. It is not "battle manga 101", it's "poor writing 101". I know Luffy will win but he doesn't have to win ALL the time, especially at the cost of the manga's quality. No weakness should allow Luffy who has 2 years of Haki training to defeat one of the strongest people in the manga. When I complain about the short fights people tell me the manga isn't about fights. When I complain about the asspulls, people say its a battle manga. Never a fault with One Piece, it's always me. OP already had an entire 100+ chapter saga (Whitebeard War) where Luffy got his ass handed to him fight after fight which ultimately resulted in the 2 year timeskip. It's not gonna happen again except for 1 or 2 cases light against Yonko if he were to fight them right now. This in no way justifies Luffy beating someone superior to him in every category, with decades more experience, and a home-field advantage. SuperRed said: As for it not making sense for Luffy to beat Katakuri, you're basing this on the portrayal of the fight until Luffy went G4, even Luffy himself though Katakuri was invincible until he figured out Observation Haki has a weakness. Then Luffy's Obs Haki should have a similar weakness Katakuri should be able to exploit. SuperRed said: Doflamingo was a similar case, many, many readers though Luffy couldn't hope to beat Doffy since he was getting his ass kicked in Gear Second and Gear Third didn't work, then Gear 4 happened and Luffy quickly turned the fight in his favor. I hated this. Not only for the fact that it was criminal to Law's great backstory that Luffy essentially stole his thunder, but also because of how ludicrously big the power gap between Gears Second and Third and Gear Fourth are. He went from doing minimal to no damage to Doflamingo to completely overwhelming him on his own. Hated it. If the fight in Gear Fourth had been portrayed as more even or if Gears Second and Third did more damage I could accept it easier. SuperRed said: Right now, G4 Luffy is portrayed as being equal to or slightly stronger than Katakuri when he isn't capable of using Color of Observation, if he can get around that issue, he could win the fight with a fair degree of difficulty. Which still won't be enough for him to harm a Yonko. No, Gear Fourth is protrayed as weaker than Katakuri still. Read chapters 884 and 885 again. Luffy got direct hits in by exploiting Katakuri's fluster and did minimal damage. Those same attacks sent Doflamingo flying from the top of the palace. The difference in impacts between their blows were made very clear. And why would you remove Katakuri's Obs Haki from the equation? Of course he wouldn't perform as well without it. Would Luffy stand a chance without his? If Katakuri's usage depletes, Luffy should do so even faster. I'll wait to see if I have a problem with how this is handled, even though I know Luffy has plot on his side. This isn't usally an issue for me because it goes without saying that MCs are plot-protected but with the abundance of plot conveniences we've seen in WCI so far it's become hard to ignore. SuperRed said: One other thing to consider, Luffy in G4 broke Doffy's strings holding down his body in place pretty easily, those same strings held down 3rd division commander Jozu of the Whitebeard Pirates from moving for a few seconds and could manipulate the 13th division commander without a problem. The characters were portrayed as weaker pre-time skip because of little to any Haki development from Oda. SuperRed said: Bottom line, G4 Luffy is stronger than your giving him credit for and it wouldn't be inconceivable for him to defeat someone like Katakuri, albeit it won't be easy. If it's possible for Luffy to win, he will win, especially when the only other alternative results in basically the end of the story. Luffy should have already lost. |
MoonStar9Nov 24, 2017 5:38 AM
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Did Sanji just use Soru? And if yes, does that mean he mastered every Rokushiki technique? |
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| very nice chapter!! I'm really hoping we will get Sanji vs Oven! plus Luffy vs Katakuri is really going to start heating up! also the color page was adorable |
DarknessSerpent said: Did Sanji just use Soru? And if yes, does that mean he mastered every Rokushiki technique? Rokushiki or Formula 6 which is the translation, is nothing more than special training that enables the user to reach superhuman status through harsh training achieving 6 specific abilities. However Gear 2 Luffy for example was capable of copying Soru (shave) after witnessing and analyzing Bruno performing it once. Bluewalk technically is an advanced form of Soru and combines it with Geppou(Moonwalk). Tekkai (Iron body) is the poor men´s armanent Haki which begs the question if CP 9 are so amazing why was every single one of them incapeable of using any form of Haki. Shigan(fingerpistol)as the name implies is a technique performed by the hands so Sanji cannot or won´t use it and Rankyaku(tempest kick) is just a powerful kick that throws an airblade. Sanji is a kicker, but only Zorro has created airblades. with his phoenixes. At last therr is Kami-e which makes the body flutter paperlike to dodge attacks, which he also didn´t use. So in summary. No Sanji is only capable of using 2 out of the 6 Rokushiki, argueably better versions, but so was Gear 2 pre timeskip Luffy, which has more to do with fighting style rather than capabilities. |
| Great chapter. Every bit was amazing. Sanji finally fighting like a man is trully inspiring; maybe it will make Pudding realize a thing or two. While I cannot stand Bege I liked his style. As for Carrot's line I completely forgot that! If seems that Oda is a master at foreshadowing. As for Luffy's inner thoughts.. well I would love watching him snatching a draw with that monster by being able to use Haki even more. Not losing to a fight against a man with a bounty twice as high is a huge step when you have a probable future bate with Kaidou. Please Oda- dono do not destroy this fight with bullshit "fighting spirit" stuff. Make the battle as fierce as you can! |
| I got places I gotta be! |
| Only fools think of it as an 'asspull' for Luffy thinking he wish to beat Dogtooth via Haki as well. While everyone wanted a 'new gear' of some sorts, Advanced Haki was the least of the 'asspulls' Oda can pull off. Asspull example, Dragon comes in and saves all of them somehow. Asspull, WGov comes in and Buster Calls WCI. Asspull, everyone gives their powers to luffy 'natsu fairytail style' and defeats the opponent. |
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| Anyway, awesome chapter. Amazed to see Sanji become so damned fast, I guess running away from those relentless okama in the kambaka country did him well. Bege is coming to take his wifey back, he aint no man to raise a kid by his own. |
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| My love Luffy please really surpass him in the next chapter, I want to see an all new you. I really hope Oda will not disappoint like recently with the fight. I am rooting for the next chapter so bad. |
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
harshtruth said: We like it there its warm and fuzzy, you should try it too.TCRfanatic said: >Checks out profileYou sound pretty salty. From reading your comments I can already see that you are biased towards One Piece for some reason or the other. >Majority of One Piece in favourites >Calls me biased because I said something it can;t argue against I swear it's like the One Piece community are a bunch of morons living in Oda's asshole |
| How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove |
MoonStar9 said: Its always you, you need to read between the lines man.TCRfanatic said: As far as I know an asspull is something that comes out of thin air so it makes no sense using this (buzz)word in this case. And how in the world is the main protagonist of a battle manga defeating an opponent that is stronger than him weird in any way? Its battle manga 101 that the weakness of the stronger opponent gets exploited by the protagonist or that the protagonist learns something during the fight and starts using it himself. If you call that bullshit I don't know why you are reading a manga like this. No. An asspull is a Deus ex Machina. A plot device or powerup that gives a character the ability to win or survive in an otherwise sure-lose scenario. It is not dependent on whether or not its foreshadowed. Foreshadowing that the MC will win and survive in a Shounen manga is utterly pointless because we know he will. The MC winning against insurmountable odds isn't odd, but that doesn't mean it's not a Deus ex Machina. This is what happened in Fairy Tail all the time. The main characters of a battle manga asspulled their way through fights they should have lost. It is not "battle manga 101", it's "poor writing 101". I know Luffy will win but he doesn't have to win ALL the time, especially at the cost of the manga's quality. No weakness should allow Luffy who has 2 years of Haki training to defeat one of the strongest people in the manga. When I complain about the short fights people tell me the manga isn't about fights. When I complain about the asspulls, people say its a battle manga. Never a fault with One Piece, it's always me. |
| How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove |
| I see some users have already reverberated the same issue that I have a problem with from this chapter; they even articulate it better than I ever would and I can totally resonate with their opinions albeit being comparably less disdainful towards it. But, in spite of it, I still am excited to see how everything plays out in next chapter. |
 Tobacco Causes Severe Health Problems, Smoke Moderately While Respecting Others. |
| Bege is best Dad. I don't like the transition from Luffy to Goku. I'll be really, really sad when they leave Pudding behind. |
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| As a one piece fan I'm really disappointed if luffy end up beating katakuri Katakuri was shown as an invincible enemy It will be extremely anticlimactic seeing him looosing Luffy should looose and learn that he has still a long way to go in my opinion |
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