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Oct 20, 2009 10:32 AM
#1
THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE. ---------------------------------------- Wow that cannon is something... the series is getting very dark and emotional, how can the Argama stand up to that? That Rosammy (spell?) is freaking annoying, it's the only thing I deslike about this series, they keep introducing more and more female characters, some of them annoying as hell. |
Jan 19, 2010 5:01 PM
#2
god damn the titans! they are targeting neutral colonies to force their hands |
the only way to stop a gamer from playing is either: beat them, or wait until they get bored (though 2% percent suffer seizures |
Aug 23, 2010 2:24 PM
#3
kage-bunshin said: god damn the titans! they are targeting neutral colonies to force their hands Well, they shot Colony 18, not 13. 13 was the neutral colony. |
Sep 3, 2010 8:57 AM
#4
Veethorn said: Indeed there wasn't a sane woman in Zeta Gundam so far which is really sad from my point of view.That Rosammy (spell?) is freaking annoying, it's the only thing I deslike about this series, they keep introducing more and more female characters, some of them annoying as hell. Reccoa is still hesitant towards the Argama which means she may go back to them. Well, considering the usual settings, I think she's gonna die somewhere :/ |
Mar 2, 2011 6:55 PM
#5
the number of obvious star wars influences in this show is hilarious. You can really tell it was made in the 80s. PS the Titans continue to be a-holes. |
Jul 28, 2011 6:08 AM
#6
Oh yes, mass murdering for the sake of stabilishing the villains as uber villains. Didn't both EFF and Zeon come up with "ultimate" weapons in 0079 and still never managed to be "invincible"? Titan's motive is laughable as always. |
Oct 12, 2011 3:43 PM
#7
Oh god. Zeta is becoming a borefest. Stop introducing shit characters for christ sake and get on with the plot already. I must endure those last 10 episodes... I must ! |
May 9, 2013 3:43 PM
#9
Very good episode (IMO). sayami said: Indeed there wasn't a sane woman in Zeta Gundam so far which is really sad from my point of view. Emma Sheen isn't sane? Also, that one female pilot that Jerid liked early on was pretty sane. Valaskjalf said: Oh god. Zeta is becoming a borefest. Stop introducing shit characters for christ sake and get on with the plot already. I must endure those last 10 episodes... I must ! Really? I think it's been picking up: the plot's development in mystery, politics, and psychology in particular. |
May 18, 2013 9:34 PM
#10
sayami said: Veethorn said: Indeed there wasn't a sane woman in Zeta Gundam so far which is really sad from my point of view.That Rosammy (spell?) is freaking annoying, it's the only thing I deslike about this series, they keep introducing more and more female characters, some of them annoying as hell. Reccoa is still hesitant towards the Argama which means she may go back to them. Well, considering the usual settings, I think she's gonna die somewhere :/ Haha, Gundam has seemed slightly misogynistic or something along those lines. inan said: Emma Sheen isn't sane? Also, that one female pilot that Jerid liked early on was pretty sane. Besides the ones included among the annoying kids or bratty teenagers factions, the females seem less capable and more impulsive and silly in general. There are the few who are cool, though, like Emma (besides her punny name), Mouar, and Mirai in Zeta, IMO. I might just be sensitive to poor portrayals of women in works (older ones especially) as a female, though. It could just be the Zeta world in particular here. Maybe Scirocco's presence attracts a massive concentration of weak females and effeminates everyone around him. |
Jun 20, 2013 4:16 PM
#11
Pimptimus up to his usual tricks I see, probably one of the most perceptive characters I've seen in an anime, also the scene with Reccoa and Kamille was pretty sad but it does seem true that she is driven by her emotions which in my imo is stupid when your involved in a war. |
Dec 12, 2013 9:14 PM
#12
Paptimus is again playing überpimp. :D Really liked Reccoa and Kamille scene. Emma is cool but most females in the show are really annoying. They should just dump Rosammia to nearest colony and continue onwards |
Jan 4, 2014 2:45 PM
#13
I bet Reccoa regrets her decision now. Those Titan assholes, their definitive defeat is only 10 episodes away. |
Feb 5, 2014 11:00 PM
#14
LOOOOOOOL at Kamille: "Then how come you have to keep slapping people?!" I also lol'd when he saysy that he'll never understand Reccoa's nonsense. but yeah...the female characters are terribly written ugh. |
Feb 5, 2014 11:06 PM
#15
MMM I'd say is because Tomino is trying to make it seem like Women piloting a mobile suit is a big deal since in the previous series the ace pilots were male. Char really doesn't give a shit about Reccoa, she realizes that, and she realizes he is using her. Meanwhile she's under the influence of Scirocco which I think it's because of his Newtype powers |
Mar 9, 2014 9:45 AM
#16
Mar 9, 2014 1:15 PM
#17
The bad part about all these terrible female characters is that MSG actually had a few pretty good ones (even if they're not exactly "pilots" excluding Sayla) even if most of them got killed. I have to wonder what went wrong from MSG to Zeta. But, then again, most of the characters, female or male, are terrible, so maybe the girls got super unlucky this time around. atomusku said: Oh yes, mass murdering for the sake of stabilishing the villains as uber villains. Didn't both EFF and Zeon come up with "ultimate" weapons in 0079 and still never managed to be "invincible"? Titan's motive is laughable as always. Yes. In fact, the destruction of a colony and its' people is pretty much how MSG started. I guess the Titans didn't read up on their history just like Zeon didn't. At least things are actually happening and our heroes have motivation now. |
Jul 8, 2014 8:16 PM
#18
Another ace episode! Rosamia Bidan seems to be not a spy since Titans doesn't mention her invading Radish or any thing. Though she seems to have some child like behavior. Then again i remember when she ask the commander to sort out, she was looking at her hands since she's be able to pilot and fight in battle. She has a similar symptom as Four, but it's not as worse as her. It seems she won't need a medication any time soon, but it might get worse. And yes she is a Cyber-Newtype, she's actually one of the first people to be deployed as such. Damn Paptimus words getting to Reccoa. I literally want to slap Reccoa now. It seems she definitely can no longer go back to AEUG. Shame Kamille didn't said anything regarding Char's feelings to her. Damn Kamille lost his cool and acted like a child and got slapped!! I did lol'd when he said to Emma "Then how come you have to keep slapping people?!" I guess he wants another beating by Char again?? :P Damn Bask and titans playing dirty. And yes this is similar to the laser they used from Gundam 079. I'm actually kind disappointed their using the same weapon with different modifications. I hope there's a Gundam vs Gundam battle there waiting to happen like what happened to Char vs Amuro!! Can't wait for the next episode!!! |
Apr 19, 2015 4:06 PM
#19
Is this the part where the show gets good at the end to try to make me forget how boring most of the show was? |
Dec 15, 2015 7:51 AM
#20
Remember the time when Scirroco was an actually charismatic, well-written character and not a horny one-dimensional creep? Yeah, me neither. Also no, Kamille, you cannot protect Reccoa. Because you cannot protect people from their own mental retardation. It's pretty clear that Tomino had something important to say about women going to war and fighting on the front lines, as shown by most cyber newtypes being emotionally unstable women, Fa struggling to ally her caring/nurturing nature with the expectations of a soldier, Reccoa's search for a stronk myn to guide her etc. At the very least,his point does seem to be more nuanced than the usual "women are not fit to go to war", because there definitely is a small number of women in the series who are perfectly functional and autonomous (like Haman Karn or Emma). But even after 40 episodes, that point he's trying to make still remains very unclear. As a result most of his female characters end up falling victim to a characterization and development which come off as half-assed and frankly sexist. I also think that the reason why it's so annoying is because of the sheer number of women in the series (especially compared with 0079). |
SapewlothDec 15, 2015 7:56 AM
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Mar 28, 2016 10:49 AM
#21
I liked Kamille's railing against adults in this. We had him as a rebel without a cause early on, then he joined in and followed orders, now as he sees the sort of reasoning guiding those orders he rebels again, but this time with the benefit of wisdom. An interesting thing about this show is that characters drop in and out of the show regularly depending if they're around Kamille and tie into his plot. Bask didn't appear for 30 episodes or more because he left others to deal with Kamille, now that the others failed he comes back. I think the only character who had an arc outside of being in Kamille's orbit, is Char with the whole Blex assassination plot. I actually rather like this style of storytelling. Not that all the choices are good, nor all the characterization solid (they're not) but it's something I don't think I've quite noticed a show do before and that's cool. |
May 2, 2016 12:40 AM
#22
I see lots of anger against this character but the Reccoa-Camille scene was great. Reccoa has been weak enough to be enrolled but is still lucid enough to regret the possible consequences (yet not her choice who lead there). Not sure if she will redeem herself before she dies but I'm certain she will stay on Guru Paptimus side no matter what, after all he did see through her in a blink and is perfectly able to exploit it. I dislike people abusing weak-minded and "needy" persons and Scirocco keeps doing it. He's as bad as those two Titans big heads. Like someone wrote above, Camille's evolution is very interesting: from an angry little brat then the good soldier always blaming others for their incompetence, he became someone aware enough to be able to form his own opinions and choices (like with Four). 5/5 |
Rei_IIIMay 22, 2018 12:15 PM
Nov 30, 2016 11:49 AM
#23
Damn, that got really dark. |
Jan 29, 2017 11:30 PM
#24
Sapewloth said: Remember the time when Scirroco was an actually charismatic, well-written character and not a horny one-dimensional creep? Yeah, me neither. Also no, Kamille, you cannot protect Reccoa. Because you cannot protect people from their own mental retardation. It's pretty clear that Tomino had something important to say about women going to war and fighting on the front lines, as shown by most cyber newtypes being emotionally unstable women, Fa struggling to ally her caring/nurturing nature with the expectations of a soldier, Reccoa's search for a stronk myn to guide her etc. At the very least,his point does seem to be more nuanced than the usual "women are not fit to go to war", because there definitely is a small number of women in the series who are perfectly functional and autonomous (like Haman Karn or Emma). But even after 40 episodes, that point he's trying to make still remains very unclear. As a result most of his female characters end up falling victim to a characterization and development which come off as half-assed and frankly sexist. I also think that the reason why it's so annoying is because of the sheer number of women in the series (especially compared with 0079). It is true that most women aren't fit to be on the front lines, though. Most females are suited to emotion/social-orientated tasks, while most males are suited to rational/object-orientated tasks. On the reverse, there are things males aren't good at that females are good at. If you're to accuse anything of being sexist, accuse human nature, and our sexual dispositions - but doing so will be the same as insulting humanity as a whole. There are exceptions, but a rule is created by tendency and majority, thus why generalisations exist. |
Jan 30, 2017 12:20 AM
#25
Faederwulf said: I don't have a problem with biology or whatever, even though we've come to a time where those limitations have been made practically irrelevant (and I'd argue that a show where piloting skills and psychic space powers are what determines a pilot's capability renders those biologic rules even completely moot). I accuse Tomino of sexism for stuff I talk about in length in plenty of my other posts, and which is perfectly embodied by Reccoa's character.Sapewloth said: Remember the time when Scirroco was an actually charismatic, well-written character and not a horny one-dimensional creep? Yeah, me neither. Also no, Kamille, you cannot protect Reccoa. Because you cannot protect people from their own mental retardation. It's pretty clear that Tomino had something important to say about women going to war and fighting on the front lines, as shown by most cyber newtypes being emotionally unstable women, Fa struggling to ally her caring/nurturing nature with the expectations of a soldier, Reccoa's search for a stronk myn to guide her etc. At the very least,his point does seem to be more nuanced than the usual "women are not fit to go to war", because there definitely is a small number of women in the series who are perfectly functional and autonomous (like Haman Karn or Emma). But even after 40 episodes, that point he's trying to make still remains very unclear. As a result most of his female characters end up falling victim to a characterization and development which come off as half-assed and frankly sexist. I also think that the reason why it's so annoying is because of the sheer number of women in the series (especially compared with 0079). It is true that most women aren't fit to be on the front lines, though. Most females are suited to emotion/social-orientated tasks, while most males are suited to rational/object-orientated tasks. On the reverse, there are things males aren't good at that females are good at. If you're to accuse anything of being sexist, accuse human nature, and our sexual dispositions - but doing so will be the same as insulting humanity as a whole. There are exceptions, but a rule is created by tendency and majority, thus why generalisations exist. |
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Jan 30, 2017 1:12 AM
#26
Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: I don't have a problem with biology or whatever, even though we've come to a time where those limitations have been made practically irrelevant (and I'd argue that a show where piloting skills and psychic space powers are what determines a pilot's capability renders those biologic rules even completely moot). I accuse Tomino of sexism for stuff I talk about in length in plenty of my other posts, and which is perfectly embodied by Reccoa's character.Sapewloth said: Remember the time when Scirroco was an actually charismatic, well-written character and not a horny one-dimensional creep? Yeah, me neither. Also no, Kamille, you cannot protect Reccoa. Because you cannot protect people from their own mental retardation. It's pretty clear that Tomino had something important to say about women going to war and fighting on the front lines, as shown by most cyber newtypes being emotionally unstable women, Fa struggling to ally her caring/nurturing nature with the expectations of a soldier, Reccoa's search for a stronk myn to guide her etc. At the very least,his point does seem to be more nuanced than the usual "women are not fit to go to war", because there definitely is a small number of women in the series who are perfectly functional and autonomous (like Haman Karn or Emma). But even after 40 episodes, that point he's trying to make still remains very unclear. As a result most of his female characters end up falling victim to a characterization and development which come off as half-assed and frankly sexist. I also think that the reason why it's so annoying is because of the sheer number of women in the series (especially compared with 0079). It is true that most women aren't fit to be on the front lines, though. Most females are suited to emotion/social-orientated tasks, while most males are suited to rational/object-orientated tasks. On the reverse, there are things males aren't good at that females are good at. If you're to accuse anything of being sexist, accuse human nature, and our sexual dispositions - but doing so will be the same as insulting humanity as a whole. There are exceptions, but a rule is created by tendency and majority, thus why generalisations exist. Biological rules won't be rendered moot for humans unless humans stop being biological, which they haven't in either Gundam or real life. In the real world, such things are far from moot, especially in the military - the obvious example being that soldiers often need to lift over 100kg of equipment for kilometres at a time. Even in Gundam, there are still certain restrictions - namely emotional ones. As I say, there may well be females who can function well in such a battle in which physical restraints are not an issue, but such females are a rarity. Not only is death on the battlefield an issue that most females cannot deal with, but the death of female soldiers in real war has proven to cause their fellow soldiers to be greatly depressed, much more than when a male soldier dies. Females are much more easily overcome with negative emotions such as fear, sadness, anger, etc. which thus makes them out of place on a battlefield where letting such emotions take control of you can cost you your life and the lives of those around you. |
Jan 30, 2017 1:44 AM
#27
Faederwulf said: As I said, most of that stuff you wrote is not the problem I have with Tomino's way of characterising his female characters, though I would argue that women who join the military after meeting the same requirements as their male counterparts (see Israel or Russia) should be and are just as capable as them if only on a physical level, and that in a time where more and more women and men study for and venture into professions dominated by the opposite gender, the biologic rules are definitely becoming irrelevant as they cannot stop this phenomenon.Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: Sapewloth said: Remember the time when Scirroco was an actually charismatic, well-written character and not a horny one-dimensional creep? Yeah, me neither. Also no, Kamille, you cannot protect Reccoa. Because you cannot protect people from their own mental retardation. It's pretty clear that Tomino had something important to say about women going to war and fighting on the front lines, as shown by most cyber newtypes being emotionally unstable women, Fa struggling to ally her caring/nurturing nature with the expectations of a soldier, Reccoa's search for a stronk myn to guide her etc. At the very least,his point does seem to be more nuanced than the usual "women are not fit to go to war", because there definitely is a small number of women in the series who are perfectly functional and autonomous (like Haman Karn or Emma). But even after 40 episodes, that point he's trying to make still remains very unclear. As a result most of his female characters end up falling victim to a characterization and development which come off as half-assed and frankly sexist. I also think that the reason why it's so annoying is because of the sheer number of women in the series (especially compared with 0079). It is true that most women aren't fit to be on the front lines, though. Most females are suited to emotion/social-orientated tasks, while most males are suited to rational/object-orientated tasks. On the reverse, there are things males aren't good at that females are good at. If you're to accuse anything of being sexist, accuse human nature, and our sexual dispositions - but doing so will be the same as insulting humanity as a whole. There are exceptions, but a rule is created by tendency and majority, thus why generalisations exist. Biological rules won't be rendered moot for humans unless humans stop being biological, which they haven't in either Gundam or real life. In the real world, such things are far from moot, especially in the military - the obvious example being that soldiers often need to lift over 100kg of equipment for kilometres at a time. Even in Gundam, there are still certain restrictions - namely emotional ones. As I say, there may well be females who can function well in such a battle in which physical restraints are not an issue, but such females are a rarity. Not only is death on the battlefield an issue that most females cannot deal with, but the death of female soldiers in real war has proven to cause their fellow soldiers to be greatly depressed, much more than when a male soldier dies. Females are much more easily overcome with negative emotions such as fear, sadness, anger, etc. which thus makes them out of place on a battlefield where letting such emotions take control of you can cost you your life and the lives of those around you. When it comes to emotional issues female soldiers have, Gundam clearly sets itself apart from real life as most of the emotional turmoil these characters face are tied to their status as Cyber Newtypes, which was forced onto them as oppposed to a innate trait like women's more emotional nature would normally be, which begs the question of what Cyber Newtypes are supposed to represent within the world of Gundam exactly and which still puzzles me years after completing the series. |
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Jan 30, 2017 5:35 AM
#28
Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: As I said, most of that stuff you wrote is not the problem I have with Tomino's way of characterising his female characters, though I would argue that women who join the military after meeting the same requirements as their male counterparts (see Israel or Russia) should be and are just as capable as them if only on a physical level, and that in a time where more and more women and men study for and venture into professions dominated by the opposite gender, the biologic rules are definitely becoming irrelevant as they cannot stop this phenomenon.Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: I don't have a problem with biology or whatever, even though we've come to a time where those limitations have been made practically irrelevant (and I'd argue that a show where piloting skills and psychic space powers are what determines a pilot's capability renders those biologic rules even completely moot). I accuse Tomino of sexism for stuff I talk about in length in plenty of my other posts, and which is perfectly embodied by Reccoa's character.Sapewloth said: Remember the time when Scirroco was an actually charismatic, well-written character and not a horny one-dimensional creep? Yeah, me neither. Also no, Kamille, you cannot protect Reccoa. Because you cannot protect people from their own mental retardation. It's pretty clear that Tomino had something important to say about women going to war and fighting on the front lines, as shown by most cyber newtypes being emotionally unstable women, Fa struggling to ally her caring/nurturing nature with the expectations of a soldier, Reccoa's search for a stronk myn to guide her etc. At the very least,his point does seem to be more nuanced than the usual "women are not fit to go to war", because there definitely is a small number of women in the series who are perfectly functional and autonomous (like Haman Karn or Emma). But even after 40 episodes, that point he's trying to make still remains very unclear. As a result most of his female characters end up falling victim to a characterization and development which come off as half-assed and frankly sexist. I also think that the reason why it's so annoying is because of the sheer number of women in the series (especially compared with 0079). It is true that most women aren't fit to be on the front lines, though. Most females are suited to emotion/social-orientated tasks, while most males are suited to rational/object-orientated tasks. On the reverse, there are things males aren't good at that females are good at. If you're to accuse anything of being sexist, accuse human nature, and our sexual dispositions - but doing so will be the same as insulting humanity as a whole. There are exceptions, but a rule is created by tendency and majority, thus why generalisations exist. Biological rules won't be rendered moot for humans unless humans stop being biological, which they haven't in either Gundam or real life. In the real world, such things are far from moot, especially in the military - the obvious example being that soldiers often need to lift over 100kg of equipment for kilometres at a time. Even in Gundam, there are still certain restrictions - namely emotional ones. As I say, there may well be females who can function well in such a battle in which physical restraints are not an issue, but such females are a rarity. Not only is death on the battlefield an issue that most females cannot deal with, but the death of female soldiers in real war has proven to cause their fellow soldiers to be greatly depressed, much more than when a male soldier dies. Females are much more easily overcome with negative emotions such as fear, sadness, anger, etc. which thus makes them out of place on a battlefield where letting such emotions take control of you can cost you your life and the lives of those around you. When it comes to emotional issues female soldiers have, Gundam clearly sets itself apart from real life as most of the emotional turmoil these characters face are tied to their status as Cyber Newtypes, which was forced onto them as oppposed to a innate trait like women's more emotional nature would normally be, which begs the question of what Cyber Newtypes are supposed to represent within the world of Gundam exactly and which still puzzles me years after completing the series. Gender-based job choices haven't changed much really. http://i.imgur.com/9tCrlGv.png Mind elaborating on what parts of Gundam you find are "sexist", and what your definition of the word sexist is? Call me old-fashioned, but I don't believe in sending females to war regardless of their physical capabilities - it's a male's burden. Mainly, as I say, because of the emotional impact. I agree with Adolf Hitler on the matter. Putting aside the figure delivering the speech, his words hold true: I'm not sure if Cyber Newtypes bear any significance as far as representing real life phenomenon, but regardless of whether Kamille's "I'm an autistic child" comment was mistranslated or not (some clarification would be appreciated if you know), some of the behaviour of Newtypes in general seems strangely reminiscent of autism. |
Jan 30, 2017 6:31 AM
#29
Faederwulf said: The change in itself might not be juge but it is still there and more importantly I believe, the possibility of change exists, and that isn't something any law of biology can take back or go against, that was what I was getting at when I was speaking of their growing irrelevance. I'll definitely call you old-fashioned even though I kindof sortof understand where you're coming from. Personally, as a profoundly anti-war person, I believe it shouldn't be anyone's burden, but in the case that war inevitable then I'd rather send able bodied women to war than their barely pubescent sons (which is funnily enough, a subject that will be more or less touched upon in Victory, as the protagonist is a 11 year old boy surrounded by women who will each embody different figures for him). You could say my concern is more of a generational than a gender-related one, I guess.Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: I don't have a problem with biology or whatever, even though we've come to a time where those limitations have been made practically irrelevant (and I'd argue that a show where piloting skills and psychic space powers are what determines a pilot's capability renders those biologic rules even completely moot). I accuse Tomino of sexism for stuff I talk about in length in plenty of my other posts, and which is perfectly embodied by Reccoa's character.Sapewloth said: Remember the time when Scirroco was an actually charismatic, well-written character and not a horny one-dimensional creep? Yeah, me neither. Also no, Kamille, you cannot protect Reccoa. Because you cannot protect people from their own mental retardation. It's pretty clear that Tomino had something important to say about women going to war and fighting on the front lines, as shown by most cyber newtypes being emotionally unstable women, Fa struggling to ally her caring/nurturing nature with the expectations of a soldier, Reccoa's search for a stronk myn to guide her etc. At the very least,his point does seem to be more nuanced than the usual "women are not fit to go to war", because there definitely is a small number of women in the series who are perfectly functional and autonomous (like Haman Karn or Emma). But even after 40 episodes, that point he's trying to make still remains very unclear. As a result most of his female characters end up falling victim to a characterization and development which come off as half-assed and frankly sexist. I also think that the reason why it's so annoying is because of the sheer number of women in the series (especially compared with 0079). It is true that most women aren't fit to be on the front lines, though. Most females are suited to emotion/social-orientated tasks, while most males are suited to rational/object-orientated tasks. On the reverse, there are things males aren't good at that females are good at. If you're to accuse anything of being sexist, accuse human nature, and our sexual dispositions - but doing so will be the same as insulting humanity as a whole. There are exceptions, but a rule is created by tendency and majority, thus why generalisations exist. Biological rules won't be rendered moot for humans unless humans stop being biological, which they haven't in either Gundam or real life. In the real world, such things are far from moot, especially in the military - the obvious example being that soldiers often need to lift over 100kg of equipment for kilometres at a time. Even in Gundam, there are still certain restrictions - namely emotional ones. As I say, there may well be females who can function well in such a battle in which physical restraints are not an issue, but such females are a rarity. Not only is death on the battlefield an issue that most females cannot deal with, but the death of female soldiers in real war has proven to cause their fellow soldiers to be greatly depressed, much more than when a male soldier dies. Females are much more easily overcome with negative emotions such as fear, sadness, anger, etc. which thus makes them out of place on a battlefield where letting such emotions take control of you can cost you your life and the lives of those around you. When it comes to emotional issues female soldiers have, Gundam clearly sets itself apart from real life as most of the emotional turmoil these characters face are tied to their status as Cyber Newtypes, which was forced onto them as oppposed to a innate trait like women's more emotional nature would normally be, which begs the question of what Cyber Newtypes are supposed to represent within the world of Gundam exactly and which still puzzles me years after completing the series. Gender-based job choices haven't changed much really. http://i.imgur.com/9tCrlGv.png Mind elaborating on what parts of Gundam you find are "sexist", and what your definition of the word sexist is? Call me old-fashioned, but I don't believe in sending females to war regardless of their physical capabilities - it's a male's burden. Mainly, as I say, because of the emotional impact. I agree with Adolf Hitler on the matter. Putting aside the figure delivering the speech, his words hold true: I'm not sure if Cyber Newtypes bear any significance as far as representing real life phenomenon, but regardless of whether Kamille's "I'm an autistic child" comment was mistranslated or not (some clarification would be appreciated if you know), some of the behaviour of Newtypes in general seems strangely reminiscent of autism. As for what I find sexist about Zeta Gundam (moreso this work than the franchise as a whole, even though a few other titles have their fair share of terrible female chars), I talked about it in other discussion threads but the fact that so many of them seemed to live and die to serve as props for the development of their male love-interests or colleagues (Mour, Four, Laila etc. even though the characters themselves were fine), Reccoa's entire existence which seemed to be meant to represent the life of a woman on the battlefield and was filled with tired clichés, gross exaggerations for the sake of drama and plenty of typical Gundam stupidity. As for the Newtypes/Cyber Newtypes, I think it's important to make a distinction between the two. Most NTs presented in the story thus far have been seemingly functional human beings with the exception of Kamille, who's been established as a nutcase from the start. The Cyber NTs however, are all emotionally unstable due to the harsh mental treatment they receive and they're all women to boot (if Scirocco isn't a Cyber). Tomino was clearly going for something there, otherwise he wouldn't have gone out of his way to make them all like abused women, but I still wonder what exactly he was trying to say. |
Proud founder of The Official Anti-Ging Freecss Fan Club Join now! Kellhus said: GuusWayne said: there is a limit to the suspension of disbelief And it's the fan that did it. Not the smoking porn reading rubik cube genius rape ape with a magic boat. |
Jan 30, 2017 6:05 PM
#30
Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: The change in itself might not be juge but it is still there and more importantly I believe, the possibility of change exists, and that isn't something any law of biology can take back or go against, that was what I was getting at when I was speaking of their growing irrelevance. I'll definitely call you old-fashioned even though I kindof sortof understand where you're coming from. Personally, as a profoundly anti-war person, I believe it shouldn't be anyone's burden, but in the case that war inevitable then I'd rather send able bodied women to war than their barely pubescent sons (which is funnily enough, a subject that will be more or less touched upon in Victory, as the protagonist is a 11 year old boy surrounded by women who will each embody different figures for him). You could say my concern is more of a generational than a gender-related one, I guess.Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: As I said, most of that stuff you wrote is not the problem I have with Tomino's way of characterising his female characters, though I would argue that women who join the military after meeting the same requirements as their male counterparts (see Israel or Russia) should be and are just as capable as them if only on a physical level, and that in a time where more and more women and men study for and venture into professions dominated by the opposite gender, the biologic rules are definitely becoming irrelevant as they cannot stop this phenomenon.Sapewloth said: Faederwulf said: I don't have a problem with biology or whatever, even though we've come to a time where those limitations have been made practically irrelevant (and I'd argue that a show where piloting skills and psychic space powers are what determines a pilot's capability renders those biologic rules even completely moot). I accuse Tomino of sexism for stuff I talk about in length in plenty of my other posts, and which is perfectly embodied by Reccoa's character.Sapewloth said: Remember the time when Scirroco was an actually charismatic, well-written character and not a horny one-dimensional creep? Yeah, me neither. Also no, Kamille, you cannot protect Reccoa. Because you cannot protect people from their own mental retardation. It's pretty clear that Tomino had something important to say about women going to war and fighting on the front lines, as shown by most cyber newtypes being emotionally unstable women, Fa struggling to ally her caring/nurturing nature with the expectations of a soldier, Reccoa's search for a stronk myn to guide her etc. At the very least,his point does seem to be more nuanced than the usual "women are not fit to go to war", because there definitely is a small number of women in the series who are perfectly functional and autonomous (like Haman Karn or Emma). But even after 40 episodes, that point he's trying to make still remains very unclear. As a result most of his female characters end up falling victim to a characterization and development which come off as half-assed and frankly sexist. I also think that the reason why it's so annoying is because of the sheer number of women in the series (especially compared with 0079). It is true that most women aren't fit to be on the front lines, though. Most females are suited to emotion/social-orientated tasks, while most males are suited to rational/object-orientated tasks. On the reverse, there are things males aren't good at that females are good at. If you're to accuse anything of being sexist, accuse human nature, and our sexual dispositions - but doing so will be the same as insulting humanity as a whole. There are exceptions, but a rule is created by tendency and majority, thus why generalisations exist. Biological rules won't be rendered moot for humans unless humans stop being biological, which they haven't in either Gundam or real life. In the real world, such things are far from moot, especially in the military - the obvious example being that soldiers often need to lift over 100kg of equipment for kilometres at a time. Even in Gundam, there are still certain restrictions - namely emotional ones. As I say, there may well be females who can function well in such a battle in which physical restraints are not an issue, but such females are a rarity. Not only is death on the battlefield an issue that most females cannot deal with, but the death of female soldiers in real war has proven to cause their fellow soldiers to be greatly depressed, much more than when a male soldier dies. Females are much more easily overcome with negative emotions such as fear, sadness, anger, etc. which thus makes them out of place on a battlefield where letting such emotions take control of you can cost you your life and the lives of those around you. When it comes to emotional issues female soldiers have, Gundam clearly sets itself apart from real life as most of the emotional turmoil these characters face are tied to their status as Cyber Newtypes, which was forced onto them as oppposed to a innate trait like women's more emotional nature would normally be, which begs the question of what Cyber Newtypes are supposed to represent within the world of Gundam exactly and which still puzzles me years after completing the series. Gender-based job choices haven't changed much really. http://i.imgur.com/9tCrlGv.png Mind elaborating on what parts of Gundam you find are "sexist", and what your definition of the word sexist is? Call me old-fashioned, but I don't believe in sending females to war regardless of their physical capabilities - it's a male's burden. Mainly, as I say, because of the emotional impact. I agree with Adolf Hitler on the matter. Putting aside the figure delivering the speech, his words hold true: I'm not sure if Cyber Newtypes bear any significance as far as representing real life phenomenon, but regardless of whether Kamille's "I'm an autistic child" comment was mistranslated or not (some clarification would be appreciated if you know), some of the behaviour of Newtypes in general seems strangely reminiscent of autism. As for what I find sexist about Zeta Gundam (moreso this work than the franchise as a whole, even though a few other titles have their fair share of terrible female chars), I talked about it in other discussion threads but the fact that so many of them seemed to live and die to serve as props for the development of their male love-interests or colleagues (Mour, Four, Laila etc. even though the characters themselves were fine), Reccoa's entire existence which seemed to be meant to represent the life of a woman on the battlefield and was filled with tired clichés, gross exaggerations for the sake of drama and plenty of typical Gundam stupidity. As for the Newtypes/Cyber Newtypes, I think it's important to make a distinction between the two. Most NTs presented in the story thus far have been seemingly functional human beings with the exception of Kamille, who's been established as a nutcase from the start. The Cyber NTs however, are all emotionally unstable due to the harsh mental treatment they receive and they're all women to boot (if Scirocco isn't a Cyber). Tomino was clearly going for something there, otherwise he wouldn't have gone out of his way to make them all like abused women, but I still wonder what exactly he was trying to say. Laws of biology are rigid, no amount of pussyfooting around the matter will change these laws. Humans are inherently no different than they were 2000 years ago, 10,000 years ago, and so on - only our societies, environments, and so forth have changed, often in a superficial manner. You can condition males to act like females, or females to act like males, but even if this conditioning occurs from birth or across multiple generations - the fundamental human tendency will not change - it is inherent. Moreover, the dissonance between the actual nature of an individual pretending to be something they are not will cause problems and suffering. I don't find what you say about females "serving as props" to be sexist as all, as many characters regardless of gender are this way. When writing a story, the actions of the characters (including death) serve to progress the story. Even in real life, this happens - such as the assassination of Franz Ferdinand supposedly triggering WWI. You're correct that Gundam (from what I've seen so far) has obnoxious characters, but it's a matter of forced drama rather than "sexism", a word I believe holds little if any value, and becomes more meaningless with every passing day. How is Kamille a nutcase? He's a little obnoxious at times, but I find him more bearable (and certainly more sane) than a lot of Gundam characters. |
Mar 2, 2017 9:51 AM
#31
Jun 17, 2017 6:00 AM
#32
Bask is the most odious character of the whole series, I hope he dies soon. However, sometimes the reactions of some characters are a bit exaggerated, perhaps this is the real flaw of this series. |
Feb 5, 2018 3:00 PM
#33
This was a good episode until the talk between Kamille & Reccoa outside their mobile suit in the middle of a battle (for the 100th time in this show) this cannot be tolerated because you have to be crazy to not let this bother you… a pilot outside his suit in the middle of a fight is in a vulnerable position and a mobile suit as important as the Zeta (a big target) without mobility is going to be noticed by enemy pilots and this show shunned this way to much for my liking. On a side note: Reccoa like she herself said there is not going back from this... she helped the enemy to kill millions of innocent civilians and for those who might said she is confused or wavering she in the preview is going to lead a gas attack, I hope this show doesn’t insult my intelligence and give her a redemption. |
May 19, 2018 6:00 PM
#34
The ending to this episode just feels like a Star Wars ripoff. Kamille Bidan Kill Count: 1 Kill this episode 50 Kills total |
Nov 18, 2018 7:47 AM
#35
Shit is getting real, this episode was intense and emotional. |
One Piece episode 914 & 915 & 1027 were a mistake and 957 brought the salvation - FMmatron |
Sep 15, 2019 9:13 AM
#36
Get your shit together Kamille. He loves Four, he's attracted to Reccoa then what is Fa to him? IIRC they were having some romantic scene 5-10 episodes ago. |
Oct 8, 2019 12:49 AM
#37
im sorry but i would have punched emma cause she was just slapping just because she wanted to for no other reason as for Reccoa hopefully she dies soon cause what she's doing is pretty foul she did what she did but now wanna play victim smh nah fuck that really dont like her now als the titan they just keep doing more and more thing thats pretty messed up and stupid but anyway this ep was ok i especially hated the part with Reccoa and Kamille couldnt help but laugh at that part when the met again that whole part was just stupid |
"one step at a time" |
Jun 18, 2020 3:04 PM
#38
I've always been kinda closing my eyes on this part in Gundam, but why are pilots in different mobile suits from opposing sides can just casually talk to one another? :thinking: Are the communication channels just open or what? The space soap opera between Kamille and Reccoa was pretty hilarious, I laughed a bit. Not tragic in the slightest. Rosamia doesn't seem to understand that she's supposed to be a spy lol. Her behaviour is freaking weird. |
St0rmbladeJun 18, 2020 3:22 PM
Jul 28, 2020 5:31 PM
#39
Everytime I'm starting to like the show, Tomino introduces a nonsense character or an illogical/ridiculous scene. Those children, that whole Rosamya thing, people abandoning their suits in the middle of space to embrace and cry... come on! |
Dec 20, 2021 5:33 AM
#40
There's any way to skip every Reccoa scene without missing much of the plot? Because i really cannot stand seeing her on screen. It's not even a "hate the character" thing but i really hate the concept behind the character. Not kidding probably one of the worst-written characters i've ever seen inside an otherwise good show. Idk if there's some Reccoa scene i need not to skip let me know pls |
Jan 10, 2022 5:21 AM
#41
Sep 5, 2022 8:24 AM
#42
I LIKE IT OKAY STOP GIVING ME THIS POPUP |
Sexy vampire, i'm falling in love with you |
Oct 24, 2022 7:15 PM
#43
Damn I do feel bad for reccoa not being able to change sides |
Oct 28, 2022 12:13 PM
#44
Kamille is right when he says Emma is quick to slap people. She's supposed to be the most decent woman, but i don't like her either. She's usually preaching people, then even slapping? Pretty annoying, and not very girl-ish... |
Aug 9, 2023 4:22 PM
#45
Zeta Gundam would've been a 10/10 masterpiece if Reccoa's betrayal arc didn't happen. Like, her planning for her mobile suit to get destroyed and join up with the titans seemed out of character. Or maybe I'm stupid and that there was build up for this and I didn't catch on. Idk. Aside from that, its a fine episode. EDIT: Finished Zeta, and Reccoa's arc makes sense and Zeta is still a 10/10 masterpiece. |
Boogerman1984Aug 26, 2023 4:44 PM
Aug 29, 2023 12:50 PM
#46
classic gundam genocide |
''Touch the darkness inside me'' |
Oct 28, 2023 12:51 AM
#47
What a selfish bitch. "There is nothing for me on the Argama. Casval wont give me his D., so i have no choice but to join Warcrimes Inc. and kill the people i know are better people, i know have better goals and i actually like, because Scirocco might give me his D. if i do. Woe is me." I hate everything about this. Edit: Wow, some good old, bold-faced, unapologetic actual sexism in this thread. Great job, Zeta. I guess thats why there are so many arch-conservative Gundam fans, they agree with early Gundams objectively incorrect and flat out insane takes on gender dynamics. |
HadToDoItOct 28, 2023 1:02 AM
Oct 10, 10:12 PM
#49
The last ten episodes of the last series are peak, so I hope something similar is in store for this one. It's cool that the villains finally have something other than "Control of the Earth's federation" with the giant laser. And even though she's fucked for doing so, having Recoa on the other side is pretty interesting as well. So many subplots with so little time |
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