Mob Psycho 100 II Episode 5 Discussion

xZabuzax said:
It was a good episode. What's up with the purple haired girl? when she got saved she was acting all weird toward Shigeo, she looked like a maniac at first and then started crying so why did she act weird like that? was it because of the hangover her mind had when the evil spirit left and her body and mind was recovering from it or was it because she had issues before (prior the possession) and now those issues got fixed when Shigeo saved her?

I don't want to google this up because I may get spoiled so try to avoid spoilers explaining this.

L0ken said:


Yes,she was a bully in real life before Mogami possesed(that's actually why he choosed her as an object of possession) and her actions to Mob in mental world were from real her,so after Mob saved her in dream world she realized how much of a shitty person she was

bitchassdarius said:

That's not how this works. I've already stated why this arc isn't written very well many times, it's up to you now to tell me why you think I'm wrong. You haven't thus far, you've only shifted the argument by misrepresenting what I actually have been saying with what your own misinterpretations.
I've already stated I'm not repeating myself anymore, so if your next post isn't going to address my point (that Mob not being able to reach a self-realization by his own isn't convincing development), then don't bother posting.

MusicalClock said:


A lesson learned is a lesson learned, some people need help, some can do it on their own, and you are expecting a lot from a character like Mob, a 13 years old child who's, I'm sorry to say this, quite dumb. I personally think it would have been very unrealistic and out of character for him to break free on his own and have such a mature realisation without any help whatsoever – the way it played out was very in-character and believable, development has to be gradual, making him jump from being completely dependent on others to becoming that mature in the span of 20 minutes would have been bad writing. It's the same for real people, you can't expect everyone to come to such conclusions on their own, some need help or else they never will, for these people it's as important as it would be disappointing for those who have the capacity to do it without help – Mob's character is clearly structured like the first, not the second. Characters operate on a pre-defined level, Mob's is a naïve and stupid but very kind one, there isn't room for independence to such a high degree, at least not at this point.

You might see it as less impactful compared to how it would have been if Mob did it alone, but seeing it in the context of the overall story, it was the only way to do it – they stayed true to what they have established about him so far without hindering development altogether.
What would you have preferred to see, the same situation but with a way of storytelling that you deem as more meaningful, or a way that stays inside the boundaries that the story takes place in?
I certainly take the latter over the first.

xZabuzax said:
It was a good episode. What's up with the purple haired girl? when she got saved she was acting all weird toward Shigeo, she looked like a maniac at first and then started crying so why did she act weird like that? was it because of the hangover her mind had when the evil spirit left and her body and mind was recovering from it or was it because she had issues before (prior the possession) and now those issues got fixed when Shigeo saved her?

I don't want to google this up because I may get spoiled so try to avoid spoilers explaining this.

Vindicater said:


She was forced to live those 6 months as well and was able to see how horrible she truly was.

bitchassdarius said:


You can not be in denial about Dimple not directly bestowing a Mob with a lesson, but what I actually said was "If you don't see how Dimple is actually leading Mob to this conclusion and it's not Mob achieving self-realization, you're in plain denial." Your second sentence is this. Your refusal to accept how the dialogue was written doesn't change how the dialogue was written. Dimple could have simply said "Remember your brother, Ritsu? Remember your school club? Remember your friend Hanazawa?" But he outlines how the relationships have changed Mob, and he even directly reminds Mob of the morals Reigen tries to instill in him. Mob doesn't recall this himself, it's only after Reigen calls him and Dimple says "Stop using your powers for dumb things in this dumb world" that Mob remembers. This insinuates that this code of conduct wasn't instilled into Mob's subconscious strong enough for it to be emerge latently, i.e. there's no proof of Mob's growth here. I'm not "giving Dimple too much credit" by quoting the dialogue. There's no eisegesis when all I'm doing is citing what was actually said. This is how the dialogue was written, and your insistent refusal of the writing doesn't change that.

deg said:


you just really think that realization should be done by the self only when you point out self-realization there, so ye you are just imposing your own expectations and beliefs on the story narrative that was presented even though you claim you just point out the dialogues lol

the fact is the story shows mob is lucky to have friends that help him with realization and personal growth thats all there is to it

you complaining about this as bad writing is just nitpicking a shonen trope like the power of friendship that is shown on this episode

vlad07 said:
I wanted to reply to @bitchassdarius again now that I woke up but I see @L0ken and @MusicalClock already beat me to it. Reasons for me to still reply would be to condemn your attitude and use of ad hominem but I have a feeling that would get us nowhere. I don't have anything to add to the discussion that pertains to the show anymore and I don't want to just "pick on your words" and basically start a different discussion about your criticisms of my criticisms and so on and so forth to oblivion.
What I will leave you with is that from my point of view you are the one ill-equipped for this discussion because you haven't read the manga and thus do not know the whole story and the context of the decision to have Mob be helped by Dimple. Also you don't have anything concrete to back up your claim that your vision would be the desirable outcome. I don't think the burden of proof should fall on us replying but rather on you because of making a claim that is not in line with the general consensus.
That said I hope we can leave this discussion as is because I don't think we will get anywhere with it from now on. You have gripes with me, I have gripes with you, so let's just agree to disagree.

bitchassdarius said:

Not really, these are standard writing conventions that every story generally sticks to. I can't convince you if you haven't really any experience with general narrative structures, and that's really what this comes down. Not my preference, but knowledge of basic writing. I've been very transparent about the fact that I have no problem with the "power of friendship" and that my main point of contention is the path taken to get to this conclusion. If you are unable to understand what I have been saying for the past 2 days, you're the one with the deficit. I can't help you with that.

MusicalClock said:


A lesson learned is a lesson learned, some people need help, some can do it on their own, and you are expecting a lot from a character like Mob, a 13 years old child who's, I'm sorry to say this, quite dumb. I personally think it would have been very unrealistic and out of character for him to break free on his own and have such a mature realisation without any help whatsoever – the way it played out was very in-character and believable, development has to be gradual, making him jump from being completely dependent on others to becoming that mature in the span of 20 minutes would have been bad writing. It's the same for real people, you can't expect everyone to come to such conclusions on their own, some need help or else they never will, for these people it's as important as it would be disappointing for those who have the capacity to do it without help – Mob's character is clearly structured like the first, not the second. Characters operate on a pre-defined level, Mob's is a naïve and stupid but very kind one, there isn't room for independence to such a high degree, at least not at this point.

You might see it as less impactful compared to how it would have been if Mob did it alone, but seeing it in the context of the overall story, it was the only way to do it – they stayed true to what they have established about him so far without hindering development altogether.
What would you have preferred to see, the same situation but with a way of storytelling that you deem as more meaningful, or a way that stays inside the boundaries that the story takes place in?
I certainly take the latter over the first.

deg said:


look around this thread though, you are the only one complaining about this self-realization concept of Mob, i say you are the one that has deficit in just accepting what the story gives

bitchassdarius said:

You don't know what ad hominem if you think I've invoked it. The fact that the other people are incapable of following a simple argument is not the reason for my dismissal, but a conclusion after butting my head against the brick wall of their ignorance. Thinking you can call "ad hominem" because I called out someone for being illiterate is generally a sign of someone speaking out of their element. Don't try to play rhetorical games when you clearly overestimate your experience there.
Your point about the manga is a nonsequitur, because I am discussing the way in which the scenario was written in this arc, and not it's relevance to the complete story. You don't understand this because you are incapable of reading what I'm actually writing. This is either the third of fourth time you've misconstrued, purposely or not, what I have written repeatedly and I can only fault your intelligence for that. I'll repeat this one more time, since you obviously have terrible reading comprehension, that this is not ad hominem because this doesn't preclude my dismissal of whatever you say. It's my conclusion that you're not very smart because you haven't directly answered anything I've actually written and instead chosen to attack strawmen you've propped, either due to your inability to comprehend what I've written or your desire to tackle a more simplistic, easier argument because the one I've proposed is out of your league. Don't bother responding, I no longer take you seriously. Thanks for playing.

bitchassdarius said:

I never said he should attempt to beat Mogami of his own help, my only point is that he should come to his own realization without the help of Dimple. This is what would have given the fight scene substance, without Mob finding some sort of self-realization, the whole arc is just Mob being taught a moral lesson and then he fights someone. It's the same depth of an episode of Precure. I'm not wrong, and you failing to understand this doesn't change that.

bitchassdarius said:

No, that's not quite how that works. I don't "turn my brain off" when I watch something. I think it makes more sense that fans that lap up shounen stories aren't well equipped to actually dig into them.

bitchassdarius said:

my impression is that the show is about mob's development, which is why this particular arc seems like filler. the end result wasn't authentic internal growth from mob, it was mob learning a moral, hence the whole arc is tantamount to an episode of precure.

vlad07 said:


You got this episode wrong in my opinion. Mogami wasn't making the point that mob's life would have been different given different circumstances. The point he was trying to make is that people are bad, worthless beings that don't deserve help. He stripped mob of every power or help he ever had to make him break, like Mogami did after his mom died. When Mob almost breaks, Dimple comes into his vision. The punch was meant to wake him up to reality, the conclusions Mob made don't come from Dimple, he only served to bring his memories back and calm him down. Mob accepted what Mogami said, in a way. His conclusion is that people *are* bad, but that they can change with the help of others, like he did. This decision that he made, that people deserve help and they can change no matter how bad they are and the realisation of how lucky he is to have such good people in his life is going to impact him immensely going forward.
The fight served to assert Mob's decision. He wins and Mogami admits defeat in trying to get mob on his side.

QueenMargosha said:


This does sound like a nice story arc in this way, but if it's what is says in the manga, it didn't come across this way in the anime like at all.

thiago52192 said:


- Saying he didn't use ad hominem
- Proving by using ad hominem in half of his argument

hmm...

Kreemy said:

You misinterpreted the message. I don’t think you’re stupid for missing it because it’s honestly portrayed so much the clearly in the manga (8 chapters were condensed to 2 episodes). I’ll provide some of the information that’s either exclusive to the manga or simply portrayed far better. I may be repeating some of what you’re saying, but you need the context to truly understand it.

The narrative behind this arc is based on the parallels between Mob/Mogami and the mindset Mob had been developing toward humans since episode 2 when he was forced to choose between exorcising an innocent family of spirits or killing shitty humans. These are the final panels shown before the arc officially began.

https://i.imgur.com/y11Cr81.png
https://i.imgur.com/dv32oQx.png

This is the set up to the core theme of the arc. Shitty humans are worth saving because they can change.. Mob didn’t come to this realization himself because he was saved by Dimple. That is the payoff to everything S2 had been building up.

The girl Mob needs to save is a complete piece of shit. She didn’t only bully Mob. She did it in her previous school as well just to be popular. Mogami questions why Mob is trying to save her when all she’s going to do is hurt more people just as she hurt Mob. It wasn’t until after the ordeal when Asagiri witnessed everything Mob did for her, despite attempting to ruin his life on a daily basis, that she was able to change. She changed because of Mob. Reigen changed because of Mob. Dimple changed because of Mob. Hanazawa changed because of Mob. Mob changed because of everyone in is life. Mob coming to a self realization, or “saving himself”, doesn’t support this narrative because the arc isn’t solely about Mob growing. It’s just as much about the people around him growing. Dimple saving Mob is the payoff to the panels I posted.

As you can partially see in the anime, Reigen and Dimple are using “selfish” reasons to justify themselves waiting for Mob to come out safely, saying they need to wait in order to keep “using” them. This is them lying to themselves. I’m not sure how well the anime gave off that impression if you couldn’t sense that.

Stark700 said:
THIS IS AN ANIME ONLY DISCUSSION POST. DO NOT DISCUSS THE MANGA BEYOND THIS EPISODE.
----------------------------------------
Oh boy, this episode was intense. I mean, Mob's powers and the theme of bullying is present.

Also quite impressed by the style of the animation quality this episode. The black and white style made the episode stand out compared to some of the previous ones. Mob's bloody face is also quite noticable.

The battle itself is phenomenal.

-Stray said:
Sweet mother of God this ep was fcking beautiful, rather, no words can describe how I felt watching it and how everything transpired.
Don't we all just love it when his meter goes ?????.

castbound123 said:


yahh at first i kinda wondered why the animation changed maybe their making improvements to the series