Kyoukai no Kanata Episode 4 Discussion

Oct 28, 2013 3:21 PM

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Apr 2012

4713

aidoru said:
Really good episode! Great to see Akihito and Kuriyama getting closer. Not sure how much I understood how Kuriyama got Akihito to stop being in his youmu form but oh well. Strange how Mitsuki & Hiromi's older sister (?) stole the gem from the youmu.

Trough the power of LOVE! Cant get more cliche but hey whatever, Ill just give up on the thought of ever having good characters in this show and try to ignore them as much as possible, and enjoy the pretty visuals and half decent story instead.

Oct 28, 2013 4:19 PM

#252

TheNurseInBlack

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Apr 2010

18

Kaioshin_Sama said:

baki502 said:

Takuan_Soho said:

grumpytoast said:
Then why did she stab him when they first met? She didn't know he was immortal, he looked human but had a youmo sense about him. If she was soooo afraid of taking lives youmo or not or of her own blood taking over she wouldn't of attacked him in the first place just like she wouldn't attack that youmo in her room.

Because it isn't like she wants to be afraid of killing. She wants to be able to kill Youmu, her hesitancy is something she wants to outgrow. That was why she kept attacking Akihito. Once she learned he was immortal, she thought she would eventually become desensitized to killing.

grumpytoast said:
She was stabbing him all the time before knowing he was immortal (except that first time) and yet when it matters she couldn't even though she knew he was immortal, she tested it out herself plenty of times..

Again, she meant to kill him, and she continued to mean to kill him until she learned that not all youmu are the same (and evil). What you all are missing is that she is not completely in control of her actions, she wants to be able to administer the killing blow, but her mind rebels at the exact moment. Because this is a real trauma and not a fake tv trauma, she is aware of her problem and is trying to overcome it, but the nature of a real trauma is such that merely because you are aware of it doesn't make it go away.

grumpytoast said:
The show is obviously contradictory and doesn't explain things well.. If it did explain things well then there wouldn't be so much confusion among the people watching it. So it obviously isn't addressing thing very well.

Honestly, while there are some thing that haven't been explained well, the problems that most of the detractors are pointing out is with their inability to understand simple complexity rather than the show itself.

Or in other words, you idiots are pissed because this show isn't a "paint by numbers" type of show, but rather requires you to think a bit for yourselves. But just because this show doesn't spell things out for you a single letter at a time, doesn't mean that the problem is with the show itself. I mean seriously, just because they don't put placards out for you doesn't mean this is the show's problem.

Please dont give this show credit for what it doesnt have. Its obviously contradictory no matter how much shit you interpret into it. She had little to no hesitation at all the first time she stabbed him when he was human with a littel youma aura to him and her not knowing he is immortal, but she hesitated A LOT 4 episodes later when he was in fulll youma mode and she knew he was immortal and she had stabbed him countless times, with little to no hesitation before.

Bullshit stays bullshit no matter how much you try to hide it.

But then what else would the Kyoani fans find to do? Praising the companies shows for anything and everything is pretty much the only way they know how to react. It's like practically an ingrained reflex.

But seriously yeah I think that's the thing about the characters that continues to bother me the most. That was their introduction and the defining scene of their relationship starting, her trying to stab him with no knowledge of what he was at that point. It makes absolutely no sense that she would try to stab a random person who could have just died and yet she can't bring herself to do anything when there's real danger and the solution is in terms of the context of this anime entirely feasible and low risk. It's also impossible now not to keep going back to that particular scene and finding contradictions, it's almost like the writer seems to have completely forgot that it happened or something among other things like Sakura disappearing mid episode with no explanation for example. It just makes her look like a really poorly thought out heroine in terms of basic logic, reasoning and problem solving abilities, but then Akihito is no spring prize here either. The show really suffers from it's two lead characters lack of charisma, consistency and definition of character.

I would add to the argument but I would like to point out that it's very ignorant to put a fandom into one group. Please refrain from continuing to make yourself look like an asshole. Of course fans are going to ptotect something that they enjoy. No body on this forum is clever for pointing out flaws in this anime and giving people hell for enjoying something. I can find numerous of flaws in any anime. But get over yourself the anime is only 4 episodes in.

Oct 28, 2013 6:00 PM

#253

Hannah_Ana

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Dec 2008

4878

OMGWTFBBQSOSABC123!!!!!! That's Akihito's youmu power?! He is definitely to be feared. It would not be wise to allow him to get into another perilous situation. He's a walking WMD.

What is up with Mirai's blood? It's like acid rain, and when she hugged Akihito in his youmu form...it burned him.

Hmm...there's some shiggedy going on behind the scenes. Wonder what's going to be done with that Hollow Shadow's stone. World domination, perhaps?

Oct 28, 2013 9:23 PM

#254

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

Kaioshin_Sama said:
But then what else would the Kyoani fans find to do? Praising the companies shows for anything and everything is pretty much the only way they know how to react. It's like practically an ingrained reflex.

As opposed to the KyoAni haters? Too funny. I guess you didn't notice that I said that there were plenty of issues with this show. Of course not, anyone who doesn't hate KyoAni for, well, being KyoAni is a KyoAni apologist for you. Remember what I said 2-3 posts before, it doesn't matter what anyone says, it doesn't matter if your mis-interpretation is pointed out, you will still believe what they believe because they cannot help it. Sums you up perfectly.

Kaioshin_Sama said:
That was their introduction and the defining scene of their relationship starting, her trying to stab him with no knowledge of what he was at that point.

Really? Her first words after stabbing him "was this too much for you". Seems to suggest that she sort of understood what he was, that her stabbing through his heart wouldn't kill him. Maybe not immortal, but she already knew that such an easy attack most likely wouldn't kill him.

It is annoying to say the same thing over and over again, but once again I will try so that maybe you all will finally get it: SHE ISN'T AFRAID OF KILLING YOUKAI. SHE WANTS TO KILL THEM. HER INABILITY TO DO SO IS BECAUSE SHE IS AFRAID OF HER OWN POWER. THAT IS THE WHOLE PREMISE OF THIS SHOW.

If you want to attack KyoAni, attack them for their clumsy mixing of genres, or for their annoying moe pumping scenes. But don't attack them for plot details that they actually explained.

Oct 28, 2013 10:09 PM

#255

symbv

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Sep 2012

10121

Kaioshin_Sama said:
But then what else would the Kyoani fans find to do? Praising the companies shows for anything and everything is pretty much the only way they know how to react. It's like practically an ingrained reflex.

I have yet to see a real deranged fan that you tried so hard to conjure. It is more like YOU cannot deal with anybody who may have valid reason to praise a KyoAni work without him being a KyoAni fan or fanboy (and somehow that would include a lot of people except the committed and relentless critics like you) so I am a KyoAni fan, Takuan_Soho is a KyoAni fan, everyone who said something positive about the show is a KyoAni fan even if he said already he does not like it when taken as a whole. It is not because we cannot deal with flaws and problems with KyoAni's production (because we clearly can) but more like you cannot deal with anything that KyoAni could have done right without any playing down or dismissal as pure luck, pandering, or blind faith by fanboys.

So MAL finally starts locking news threads that are only a few weeks old?

I wonder where was the announcement of this change? Or we are seeing yet another case of changes made that impacted users but not communicated to them?

I wonder how long people would put up with this.

As much as I have a bunch of information to share about anime announced recently I cannot share it in news board, and the anime series is too disorganized and chaotic to share information except with people already interested in the particular series.

Oct 28, 2013 11:32 PM

#256

grumpytoast

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Dec 2011

130

Takuan_Soho said:

Kaioshin_Sama said:
But then what else would the Kyoani fans find to do? Praising the companies shows for anything and everything is pretty much the only way they know how to react. It's like practically an ingrained reflex.

As opposed to the KyoAni haters? Too funny. I guess you didn't notice that I said that there were plenty of issues with this show. Of course not, anyone who doesn't hate KyoAni for, well, being KyoAni is a KyoAni apologist for you. Remember what I said 2-3 posts before, it doesn't matter what anyone says, it doesn't matter if your mis-interpretation is pointed out, you will still believe what they believe because they cannot help it. Sums you up perfectly.

Kaioshin_Sama said:
That was their introduction and the defining scene of their relationship starting, her trying to stab him with no knowledge of what he was at that point.

Really? Her first words after stabbing him "was this too much for you". Seems to suggest that she sort of understood what he was, that her stabbing through his heart wouldn't kill him. Maybe not immortal, but she already knew that such an easy attack most likely wouldn't kill him.

It is annoying to say the same thing over and over again, but once again I will try so that maybe you all will finally get it: SHE ISN'T AFRAID OF KILLING YOUKAI. SHE WANTS TO KILL THEM. HER INABILITY TO DO SO IS BECAUSE SHE IS AFRAID OF HER OWN POWER. THAT IS THE WHOLE PREMISE OF THIS SHOW.

If you want to attack KyoAni, attack them for their clumsy mixing of genres, or for their annoying moe pumping scenes. But don't attack them for plot details that they actually explained.

Overall I am quite the fan of kyonai.. They have come out with some good stuff and their animation and art is extremely good. But just because your a fan doesn't mean you have to cover up for the inconsistency. This show has a contradiction in the main character, not saying it makes the show good or bad but it is there. Several people, fans and not fans alike have found this to be a confusing aspect.

Also after she stabbed him she said "what are you?".. She had no knowledge that half youma's or a youma of being immortal. " was this too much for you" could also imply "my cursed blood is do strong your going to die" or "you can't survive this" simply that she is confident in her abilities. She has talked several times about how her clan was strong or strong her blood is.
also Even if she wants to kill youma, it can still be said that she can't because she is afraid. Whether of her own blood or youma itself, she seems to have something holding her back. I find the purpose of the flashbacks of her friend and her keep mentioning having killed somebody to be the root of her fear, especially since one of those appeared before killing a youma. I think she is afraid of killing youma's because she's afraid that by doing so she will kill somebody again.
Anyways she should've had no qualms stabbing him, seeing how she has tested out her abilities on him several times with blows that would've killed in less life threatening situations. Also stabbing him not even knowing he's immortal and with the possibility of killing him when they first met.

So obviously something is wrong on kyonai's end in their explanation and interpretation.. They aren't doing the best of job right no at being consistent. I mean this issue isn't the only one are the show wasn't consistent. Like in this ep where that Sakura seemingly disappeared from the ep little over halfway through without an explanation. It's like she didn't even matter, she was just there and gone.

grumpytoastOct 28, 2013 11:38 PM

Oct 29, 2013 1:48 PM

#257

Red_Keys

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Sep 2012

19236

Ok, so this episode was much better than the last one.

My favorite thing about it, was how Mirai finally apologized to Akihito. I was waiting for that.

And his whole hidden monster thing I guess explains why everybody is always so rude to him (although it doesn't make it any less irritating to watch).

I was pleasantly surprised with how little of a punching bag Akihito was this episode. I mean, sure, he get stabbed and basically ripped apart, but it only happened once, and was treated with the proper tone. I liked the whole labyrinth thing, that was cool.

Some things I had issues with though.. When he asked her to stab him to draw out the monster and kill it.. why the hell did she hesitate? Like.. before she had no problem stabbing him when he was telling her not to do it. She sought him out, chased him down, and specifically tried to murder him all for "practice". Basically, she saw him as less than a fucking human being, just a convenient practice dummy to shove her sword through. And now, when he's there telling you to stab him.. you're all of a sudden going to hesitate? Oh NOW it's a big deal! Pfft. Ok...

And then, they said "when his body is in peril, his Youma side comes out".. ok. So... I'm pretty sure his body was "in peril" within the first 30 seconds of the first episode, when he had a sword plunged straight through his fucking heart. That kind of put me off a bit just thinking about that.

The whole "saved by the hug" thing didn't really bother me. I took it literally. Like, his body was "in peril", but when she hugged him, held him close to her body and apologized to him, that took him out of "peril", thus making the youma go away. Meh, that's just how I took it.

I wonder if (and kind of hope) suicide will be a theme explored in the future. It definitely foreshadowed it in the first episode, and now, given Akihito's situation, it seems very likely.

This kind of reminds me of Rosario + Vampire a bit with Tsukune.

Red_KeysOct 29, 2013 1:54 PM

Oct 29, 2013 3:23 PM

#258

Azetaminofen

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Jul 2013

1237

The episode was fantastic, that sums it up.

Oct 29, 2013 6:22 PM

#259

Takuan_Soho

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Oct 2012

6648

grumpytoast said:
This show has a contradiction in the main character, not saying it makes the show good or bad but it is there. Several people, fans and not fans alike have found this to be a confusing aspect.

While I agree that KyoAni could have done a better job at explaining Mirai's motivation, I will continue to argue against there being a contradiction because there wasn't one. In every encounter with a youmu, including her first scene with Akihito, she looked away and her hand was trembling when she stabbed one. So it isn't like she didn't have an issue, and then suddenly did have an issue (which is what a contradiction is), KyoAni made sure from the start to show this behavior.

grumpytoast said:
Also after she stabbed him she said "what are you?".. She had no knowledge that half youma's or a youma of being immortal. "

It could imply, but it doesn't. What she meant was explained later in the episode when she told Akihito she had never seen a youmu continue to possess a human after being stabbed so many times. This explains her actions: she thought that Akihito was either a Youmu or a human possessed as a youmu when she stabbed him, so when he didn't respond like she expected she had to ask "what are you".

Now, it certainly didn't help that the immediately cut from that scene to Akihito talking with his senpai, and then some moe and then finally the rest of the explanation, which is why I agree that KyoAni could have done a better job at explaining this part, but that isn't the same as saying that there was a contradiction to how Mirai acted or that KyoAni didn't explain it. She isn't and they did, they just made the viewer piece it together. That for me isn't a fault, I love doing such things, but I can understand that for most viewers KyoAni could have done a better job at explaining this part.

Oct 30, 2013 1:17 PM

#260

AnimageNeby

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Feb 2013

623

LilliumStar said: