| Pretty much everyone consumes media to feel all kinds of strong emotions, not just to feel good and have fun, because we're not that simple, unfortunately. |
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fst said: Last 2 episodes of the TV series arent enjoyable, and i wish that were to the shows benefit.what about rebuild 3.0 then? or just the last 2 episodes of the TV series? |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
fst said: what about rebuild 3.0 then? or just the last 2 episodes of the TV series? Rebuild 3.0 had lots of mech porn and Asuka fan service so I can't say I didn't enjoy watching it a lot The TV series ending could be there though, I can appreciate what it stands for (due to the budget shortage) but I didn't really enjoy it the second time watching it, knowing how much more complete EoE is |
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Lollo36 said: Pretty much everyone consumes media to feel all kinds of strong emotions, not just to feel good and have fun, because we're not that simple, unfortunately. C L A N N A D ~ A F T E R S T O R Y ~ |
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gedata said: When you compare other reviewers/analysts to Digibro, chances are that they'll come up a bit short or unimpressive. Also at this point, praising HxH is about as old hat as shitting on SAO or Guilty Crown as in there's nothing left to say. At least he got it right. I see what you're saying, but if I were to word it I better I guess I was disappointed that it didn't have the same "passion" in it as his reviews for FMA, Azumanga, Hellsing, Berserk, or even Fate. When I hear him talk about other "certified frosty" shows I can easily believe that he enjoyed the shit out of them but with HxH it didn't feel nearly as personal. Maybe he was burned out after recording/editing 6 reviews around the same time |
| I think Shocked just locked his first thread. They grow up so fast :') |
AntiBullyRanger said: fun = entertaining I can be entertained without having fun, fun does not equal entertaining? Got to love semantics arguments |
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Kaimon said: Azumanga's Daioh's dub is waaaay better than I thought it would be. I almost always go subbed with shows that take place in Japanese settings but I may have to make an exception here Jap Azu still edges it out tbh Japanese humor (and yes it does have some culturally based humor) is always better in Japanese. |
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cupc said: AntiBullyRanger said: fun = entertaining I can be entertained without having fun, fun does not equal entertaining? AntiBullyRanger said: feel free to read the rest of the postFun was obviously not the best word to use because of the positive connotation but considering it was just a joke I didn't put much thought into it |
AntiBullyRanger said: http://i.imgur.com/0cABO1k.png Yes, entertainment can refer to having fun, but not always. It's great that you pulled a bunch of definitions for the word but it says nowhere entertainment always equals fun. That's why there are a bunch of definitions for the words after all The number one definition for the verb is "light hearted pleasure", whereas the verb entertain can also refer to non-light hearted pleasure (imo) |
cupcDec 12, 2015 3:43 PM
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| no problem m8 👌👀 |
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AntiBullyRanger said: cupc said: did you not see the quote underneath the screenshot?The number one definition for the verb is "light hearted pleasure", whereas the verb entertain can also refer to non-light hearted pleasure (imo) no, I honestly did not. domo gomen |
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Kokko said: tsudecimo said: That's so fucked up and incorrect.. The hipster level tho sugoi ? Are you really sure that a true anti-war film is made to entertain you with explosions and shooting? No, it's meant to make you sick to your stomach because of what you are seeing. I was enthralled with the film, but no way in hell did I find it fun. I didn't mean that obviously. But you showed with this comment as well your limited understanding of the word enjoyment. Anything, literally anything that engages you in any emotional level or an intellectual level or/and can make you immersed in the work can be and is considered enjoyment. Being horrified = enjoyment Being appalled = enjoyment Depressing you = enjoyment It's good = enjoyment Enjoyment =/= only fun |
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tsudecimo said: Being horrified = enjoyment Being appalled = enjoyment Depressing you = enjoyment please elaborate? if I take a trip to the closest psychiatrist and ask them if their depressed patients are actually enjoying themselves, what are the odds he agrees? I can sorta understand this from the viewpoint that you subconsciously know it's not real, so you can enjoy the "pain" because of how well it's portrayed. But it's a matter of how you look at it, I don't think there's a correct answer. If I watch a terrible yet well made war film, I am entertained yet not having fun. I'm entertained perhaps because of its powerful and well crafted message, but also disgusted by it. |
cupcDec 12, 2015 3:56 PM
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cupc said: tsudecimo said: Being horrified = enjoyment Being appalled = enjoyment Depressing you = enjoyment please elaborate? if I take a trip to the closest psychiatrist and ask them if their depressed patients are actually enjoying themselves, what are the odds he agrees? I can sorta understand this from the viewpoint that you subconsciously know it's not real, so you can enjoy the "pain" because of how well it's portrayed. But it's a matter of how you look at it, I don't think there' a correct answer I'm not taking about these emotions as standalone. I'm specifically talking about them within the context of a work. ''engages you in any emotional level or an intellectual level or/and can make you immersed in the work can be and is considered enjoyment'' the two key words here is engage within a work. These emotions on themselves aren't enjoyment they are just negative in value without context. But when a work is crafted well enough that it can make you feel depressed then that's enjoyment because it reached to you in an emotional level, and made an impact on you, made you immersed in it. That's why people consciously or subconsciously watch/read works like this because while it wouldn't make you happy per se or feeling optimistic, they still affect you. And that level of immersion and engagement is what people seek when it comes to fiction. Whether it's on a shallow level with works designed for entertainment purposes only or for substantial works that engages you intellectually and on a deeper level. The enjoyment is referring to the process itself, it does not necessarily mean you like seeing people getting killed and tortured (unless you are already into that). Since when these things are taken out of the context of said anti war movie they don't have as much affect because you are not engaged in a type of narrative or a work, but just random unpleasant images. For example. I downloaded a movie called ''Breathless''. It's a movie about Child abuse, violence and it's cycle. I already know that these things would get to me and I don't like depressing dysfunctional families and such. But I watched because I'm still interested in being possibly engaged by it. And it went exactly like I expected. It made me depressed and it was tragic and hard to watch. It finished, I thought it was great but I deleted it of my computer because I definitely don't think I will ever re-watch it. But at the same I still appreciated it and found enjoyment of the experience, which I wouldn't want to forget. Enjoyment is just always associated with pleasant feelings. But I think it's logical for someone to enjoy Schindler's list more than the Transformers, even if the latter entertained him, while the former didn't. Because it's about the experience as a whole and the body of work, not specifically the appalling elements and horrifying scenes. To put it a lot simply. It's a more serious version of why people like horror movies. Being scared is not a pleasant feeling, yet a lot of people enjoy horror films and find them entertaining. Because being scared is an emotion and it means you are being engaged albeit in a more basic level than Schindler's list |
tsudecimoDec 12, 2015 4:10 PM
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Tsudecimo said: For example. I downloaded a movie called ''Breathless''. It's a movie about Child abuse, violence and it's cycle. I already know that these things would get to me and I don't like depressing dysfunctional families and such. But I watched because I'm still interested in being possibly engaged by it. And it went exactly like I expected. It made me depressed and it was tragic and hard to watch. It finished, I thought it was great but I deleted it of my computer because I definitely don't think I will ever re-watch it. But at the same I still appreciated it and found enjoyment of the experience, which I wouldn't want to forget. I'm on phone so can't write a wall of text but yeah, I definitely know what you mean. Knew from the beginning, in fact, which is why I'm hitting myself in the head for arguing about this in the first place since there's no point. You talking about your experience though, you mention you weren't enjoying it whilst watching. In my mind that means you were not entertained by it. Sure, you can be entertained by thinking how well the film was made later on, but were you entertained watching it? I have several films in mind that aren't entertaining to watch, but because of what they stand for (etc), thinking of them afterwards can be very entertaining, in one way or another. And those are examples of my stance |
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cupc said: You talking about your experience though, you mention you weren't enjoying it whilst watching. In my mind that means you were not entertained by it. Sure, you can be entertained by thinking how well the film was made later on, but were you entertained watching it? I have several films in mind that aren't entertaining to watch, but because of what they stand for (etc), thinking of them afterwards can be very entertaining, in one way or another. Not really. While I'm watching the movie, I'm enjoying it because I'm immersed in it. It's not an appreciation of something after it's over. Which is why I wrote this The enjoyment is referring to the process itself, it does not necessarily mean you like seeing people getting killed and tortured (unless you are already into that). Since when these things are taken out of the context of said anti war movie they don't have as much affect because you are not engaged in a type of narrative or a work, but just random unpleasant images. I don't enjoy the experience after the fact but during and after the fact. |
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Zergneedsfood said: Zzz zzz tfw I'm at a restaurant and person I'm supposed to meet is getting owned by subway Inb4 my reservation expires if it were me I'd be like somebody better have died inb4 somebody actually did die in this case |
| I think appreciation is a more apt term than enjoyment in these cases because its a much more neutral tone as enjoyment implies deriving some sort of pleasure from the experience. Writing to persuade or inform is a completely different beast than writing to entertain so I think it makes sense to draw a distinction between what it is you derive from the experience. |
| tfw i killed the thread |
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| Why cant school be done with so i can play this masterpiece Fuck you college! |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| So I watched the SonoHana OVA as my first yuri hentai...Dayum, that was hot. 👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good shit go౦ԁ sHit👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌shit right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good shit |
SuperRed said: Why hasnt there been an adaptionl with any of the other girls is my question.So I watched the SonoHana OVA as my first yuri hentai...Dayum, that was hot. 👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good shit go౦ԁ sHit👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌shit right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good shit |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: SuperRed said: Why hasnt there been an adaptionl with any of the other girls is my question.So I watched the SonoHana OVA as my first yuri hentai...Dayum, that was hot. 👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good shit go౦ԁ sHit👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌shit right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good shit truly a question for the ages they should make a kickstarter |
fst said: I'd donate....like 5 bucks but id donate.JizzyHitler said: Why hasnt there been an adaptionl with any of the other girls is my question. truly a question for the ages they should make a kickstarter |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| God i love how demented this game was, this opening really captures it perfectly, i think its also one of the few times the (intentionally) broken ost really works well enough (most of the other time i feel it doesnt outside of cutscenes) Still the best awful game out there, I non-ironically love this steaming pile of crap, one of the best atmospheres in gaming and by far the most fucked up game on the market. To think how toned down it was from its original script too and its still as demented as it is, now i have an urge to replay the mission where you get to slaughter children soldiers |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: fst said: I'd donate....like 5 bucks but id donate.truly a question for the ages they should make a kickstarter Are you even allowed to use kickstarter to fund porn? Has kickstarter been used to fund porn before? |
| I remember someone trying to fund a 3D version of Monster Girl Quest, minus the porn. It looked so hilariously bad, and the guy was trying to market it as fun for everyone. Yep, the game where herds of girls attempt to rape you, now for kids! |
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fst said: I know indiegogo doesnt give a fuck, i dont know about kickstarterJizzyHitler said: I'd donate....like 5 bucks but id donate. Are you even allowed to use kickstarter to fund porn? Has kickstarter been used to fund porn before? |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: What does this even mean?? You keep saying It's a bad game yet state reasons you genuinely like it, Make sense man Still the best awful game out there the mission where you get to slaughter children soldiers Also, the inner psycho in me is intrigued at this |
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| Ufc hype boys |
| what's the difference between smut and ecchi |
| Tfw when I spend 11 hours training a model and then it turns out to be way worse than my previous model, ripperoni. I guess I don't have the compute power to actually train a better model. |
JizzyHitler said: So Demolition D uploaded that,lmaoGod i love how demented this game was, this opening really captures it perfectly, i think its also one of the few times the (intentionally) broken ost really works well enough (most of the other time i feel it doesnt outside of cutscenes) GwYYyXSya38 Still the best awful game out there, I non-ironically love this steaming pile of crap, one of the best atmospheres in gaming and by far the most fucked up game on the market. To think how toned down it was from its original script too and its still as demented as it is, now i have an urge to replay the mission where you get to slaughter children soldiers I remember how I was creeped out by those sounds, and Manah. Damn Manah |
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King_of_Fist said: Its really hard to describe, like really fucking hard but most people that play the game will echo it, as a video game it doesnt function properly and can be quite frustrating, the game itself is just a unique experience that isnt like anything else out there, it either flies over people's heads (which isnt a fault on them) or it finds that place in the hearts of people who look past its astounding amount of flaws. JizzyHitler said: What does this even mean?? You keep saying It's a bad game yet state reasons you genuinely like it, Make sense man Still the best awful game out there You know going off that whole enjoyment debate tsud cup and kokko were having, this is basically the video game version of that to an extent, the game views both the world and gaming as a whole in eyes that only a mad genius named yoko taro sees them and thats what kind of makes it worth playing and especially reading up about the thought process behind most the game. [quote=King_of_Fist] the mission where you get to slaughter children soldiers If you have an inner psycho in you then drakengard is probably worth suffering through, its demented, the game was actually made because yoko taro the games creator always thought it was fucked up that games would tout kill counts and defeating enemies in a glorious almost gloating like manner, so he made drakengard played through the eyes of a mute sociopath whose only loves in life are his sister and slaughtering people. Caim is one of my favorite "j-rpg" protagonists cause in any other game he'd be the antagonist. Also to put yoko taro and his writing into perspective, this is a man who when he was young watched his best friend slip and fall to his death in front of him, looking back on this experience he said he kind find humor in the situation.though note that the killing kids isnt optional it is missable to people that didnt actually finish the game, what i mean by this is that there are 5 endings but they dont work the way other games define "endings". Ending A which i bet alot of people stopped at is actually chapter 8 of 13 with all the 4 endings and chapters past that being increasingly more fucked up alternate events and to get to ending B and up you need to do a few side stuff such as the slaughtering kids mission which is in the pedophile party member's storyline. |
JizzyHitlerDec 12, 2015 7:28 PM
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
AzureDaora said: My parents bought this game for me when i was still in elementary school, let me put this in perspective that at this time the only 2 M rated games i have played by this point were twisted metal black and drakengard, 2 of the most fucked up games ive ever played, and they were both gifted to me by my parents yet they wouldnt let me play gta 3 until like 2005 (let me play vice city for some retarded reason)JizzyHitler said: So Demolition D uploaded that,lmaoGod i love how demented this game was, this opening really captures it perfectly, i think its also one of the few times the (intentionally) broken ost really works well enough (most of the other time i feel it doesnt outside of cutscenes) GwYYyXSya38 Still the best awful game out there, I non-ironically love this steaming pile of crap, one of the best atmospheres in gaming and by far the most fucked up game on the market. To think how toned down it was from its original script too and its still as demented as it is, now i have an urge to replay the mission where you get to slaughter children soldiers I remember how I was creeped out by those sounds, and Manah. Damn Manah |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
tsudecimo said: t obviously. But you showed with this comment as well your limited understanding of the word enjoyment. Anything, literally anything that engages you in any emotional level or an intellectual level or/and can make you immersed in the work can be and is considered enjoyment. Being horrified = enjoyment Being appalled = enjoyment Depressing you = enjoyment It's good = enjoyment Enjoyment =/= only fun I can live with this definition. Certainly makes it all simpler |
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| Drakengard games are really flawed games with something special beneath it. As someone that grown up with Drakengard games, I don't think people that never played the games can really understand what that actually means. Sounds pretentious, I know, but Drakengard is just like that really. The chaos, the darkness, and everything Drakengard has to offer is just unlike any game I've ever played, heck I'd argue any game at all. Most Drakengard games have flawed gameplay but god-tier plot, now why do you think we have so much HYPE for Nier II? Drakengard has gr8 OST too |
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JizzyHitler said: King_of_Fist said: Its really hard to describe, like really fucking hard but most people that play the game will echo it, as a video game it doesnt function properly and can be quite frustrating, the game itself is just a unique experience that isnt like anything else out there, it either flies over people's heads (which isnt a fault on them) or it finds that place in the hearts of people who look past its astounding amount of flaws. What does this even mean?? You keep saying It's a bad game yet state reasons you genuinely like it, Make sense man You know going off that whole enjoyment debate tsud cup and kokko were having, this is basically the video game version of that to an extent, the game views both the world and gaming as a whole in eyes that only a mad genius named yoko taro sees them and thats what kind of makes it worth playing and especially reading up about the thought process behind most the game. I think I can understand where you're coming from, Basically a show/Game that goes against your standards of enjoyment and under normal circumstance you'd hate it, but for some reason you ended up liking it King_of_Fist said: slaughtering kids mission which is in the pedophile party member's storyline. Now I'm really curious, It's times like these I hate being Broke |
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| >[Vivid] Kekkai Sensen - 12 The time has come. |
Ckan said: Slowpoke.jpg>[Vivid] Kekkai Sensen - 12 The time has come. |
|
| What can I say? Reliving the old fansubbing days gets me hot. |
AzureDaora said: thats a good way to put it, it is really hard to word it properly without coming off as pretentious but to any yoko taro fans out there they totally get what we mean Its an acquired taste basically. Though nier really did seem to find an audience with people outside of this niche, it was just kind of that sleeper hit that passed by the spotlight and garned a pretty large and dedicated fanbase probably cause that game is fucking genius. I need to get to playing drakengard 3 when my projects are done too, ill have to revert back to my expectations of drakengard 1 rather than that of nier cause i do think nier is a competent to solid game in terms of its gameplay while it seems 3 has some serious issues (mainly the framerate)Drakengard games are really flawed games with something special beneath it. As someone that grown up with Drakengard games, I don't think people that never played the games can really understand what that actually means. Sounds pretentious, I know, but Drakengard is just like that really. King_of_Fist said: Sort of yes and sort of some other things, id say its that in addition to how it offsets the tropes found in gaming as a whole and just its really unique perspective on games or even storytelling as a whole.I think I can understand where you're coming from, Basically a show/Game that goes against your standards of enjoyment and under normal circumstance you'd hate it, but for some reason you ended up liking it King_of_Fist said: slaughtering kids mission which is in the pedophile party member's storyline. Now I'm really curious, It's times like these I hate being Broke[/quote]Its pretty easy to find but i almost want to advocate not spending money on it just cause of how much of an acquired taste it is, an acquired taste that might not even resonate with you. Then again you can probably get the game cheap as fuck anyway though the yoko taro train has been picking up steam recently so i wont be surprised if it winds up becoming rare in the coming year or 2 |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
| This opening does make me pretty excited to play through the game, i only played the opening sequences but i loved the writing, for a guy as fucked up as yoko taro is i like his wacky sense of humor even if its not present at all in 1. |
Immahnoob said: Jizzy, I know you have no idea how to argue for shit, tokiyashiro said: Jizzy as you would call yourself because youre a dick The most butthurt award goes to you And clearly you havent watched that many shows thats why you cant determine if a show is unique or not Or maybe you're just a child who likes common stuffs where hero saves the day and guys gets all the girls. Sad taste you have there kid you came up to me in the first place making you look more like a kid who got slapped without me even knowing it and start crying about it to me |
JizzyHitler said: Its pretty easy to find but i almost want to advocate not spending money on it just cause of how much of an acquired taste it is, an acquired taste that might not even resonate with you. Then again you can probably get the game cheap as fuck anyway though the yoko taro train has been picking up steam recently so i wont be surprised if it winds up becoming rare in the coming year or 2 Trust me, I never buy things blind, of what I've seen of it, I'll probably at least enjoy it (how much I enjoy it however, I'll have to wait and see) I'll probably buy It once I shave off the other stuff on my Planned list. |
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| I have to say, I literally never heard anyone give a shit about Nier until I joined this club. Yahtzee slagged it off when it came out and then I promptly forgot about it. |
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