| PUAs are far worse since 1. Try to scam people out of money 2. Give bad advise that does not work if you are ugly Most men nowadays are incels, but many refuse to recognise themself in such a lite. A minority of incels are the complainers on forums. Incel=ugly and/or short man PUA=person trying to profit on incels with dishonest advise Blackpill=truth |
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| My understanding is that incel is when you have unhealthy views about women and then whine about it ad nauseum, whereas pick-up artistry is when you have unhealthy views about women and decide to walkthrough your way into fucking them. To me it's just tomayto tomahto, I don't think there's a big enough difference to bother considering which is the lesser evil. |
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| As much as I HATE incels. I have to go with PUAs. |
| Incels have a right to complain about the modern world. Incels at least are trying to explain how things got so bad and some of them talk about what would actually fix the situation. Incels do exaggerate a bit because I think that happens when you do a lot of research and don't get enough real life experience. You start to assume that trends and average are the rule. In that sense, incels are correct about how the average woman or how most women behave. But the biggest weakness of the blackpill ideology is that it doesn't take exceptions into account. I've met girls who had virgin fetishes, I don't know how many of these people are fakes but some anons claiming to be girls on 4chan claim to have "loser fetishes" and "always wanted to know what it'd be like to meet/fuck an incel." I've seen enough of them that I think some of them have to be real at least. I voted PUAs though because their advice is just very bad. PUAs actually seem to understand why the world is fucked and how it got that way but continue giving people advice that would further fuck up the world. PUAs talk about how rampant promiscuity has made things so bad yet advocate for guys to run around seducing as many women as they can. Its just stupid to say "yeah the world's fucked because of promiscuity and liberalism but what can you do? Just try and fuck as many women as you can. By the way, this is how you need to act if you want promiscuous women to sleep with you. Even though we think promiscuous women are fucking up the world." That is not a solution lol. If promiscuity is what fucked up the world, then the solution is for us to change our own behavior and stop being promiscuous. Stop behaving in a manner that attracts promiscuous bad girls to you. Let girls know that you don't approve of that kind of behavior and dedicate your actions to finding a good woman. |
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Milzol said: @Auron_ there is a book by leftist journalist (maybe former as this redpilled her but i don't know) norah vincent about her living disguised as a man for a year. she joined a bowling club, went to strip clubs with them and even dated women. she is a lesbian so she had experience with dating women, pleasent experience. but when she was doing it as a man it was completly different. she writes that all the rejections and the disrispectful and hostile way that she was treated made her temporarily misogynistic. i have never dated anyone so i am not speaking from personal experience but the facts are that men are the ones that iniiate and women have higher standars resulting in a lot of rejections which is emotionally painful. it is therefore normal to be frustrated as a man, even if you have above average mate value. I'd have to look. Was it frustrating because the women treated her like crap, or was it because she had to basically perform as a gender identity that she does not internally recognize as her own, leading her to not be as willing or successful at the gender conventions that are expected of a guy? Also, mind you, I don't disagree that men are the one's initiating and women usually get to have more of a say on choosing a partner, casual or long-standing, but that's cause men are in general hornier and seek women out nigh-indiscriminately, so obviously they'll be pickier with their men since they can afford to be. Anyone would in that scenario, you included. The incel route is using that info and go "Women are all horrible and men are second class citizens and you have no hope if you're below 6 ft. waah waah!" instead of facing reality head-on and being an adult about it. |
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Milzol said: @Ryuk9428 i don't know if you are named after ryuk from death note but i like that character because he doesn't try to change the world, he just watches. this collective action stuff is just very unhealthy. you should accept that the world is flawed and that you can't remake it just because you want it very strongly. i don't like pua's, they are telling you to be a conman. but still, accepting that the world is sinful and forever will be is the right approach. I just like the name. Collective action is not unhealthy. It is written into the very genes of our DNA. What do you think is going to work out better? A tribe that works together and tries to find solutions that benefit the entire tribe or a tribe full of individualists insisting on being allowed to do whatever they want and fuck everybody else? See its stuff like this that shows me you still fall for controlled opposition narratives of what it means to be right-wing. How convenient that our opposition has convinced us that our very ideology is about being individualistic and not caring about changing the world? No way that such narratives might be used to prevent us from ever organizing and deciding that we're going to run things how we want them to be run could it?  Has it never occurred to you that this might be what's going on? We live in a very unnatural world right now. People are forced to lie and abandon common sense in order to move about their daily life. Realities that used to be taken for granted for hundreds of years now seem like an impossible dream. You do realize that the same situation we are in right now is the same situation that the left was in back in the 1950s or so? I'm sure everybody then told them "yeah this is how things are, what do you think you are gonna do?" Now we live in a world where lots of people don't seem to even think gender exists much less that there are specific roles that are healthy for each gender to follow. I can't stand how so many people on our side seem to care more about fighting the left-wing mindset instead of the left-wing ideas. The truth is that the left-wing mindset worked. They won, we lost. We're living in their world because their mindset does create change and its very effective at doing so whether you like it or not. They're good at convincing people to support them and follow them no matter how stupid their ideas are, learn from it instead of sticking to these "I don't like collective action, I don't like how leftists behave, I don't like how they think. Oh you're behaving like one of them by suggesting collective action." You say the incels are the defeatists but really you are if your ideology is "I like people who don't try to change the world." You say you don't like how things are, then do something about it, figure out how to fix it. I'm not just gonna sit back and watch society's repulsive values succeed. I'm gonna at least try to create a world I want my kids to grow up in. I'm going to stick to my principles and I'm going to behave in a way that I know will make the world a better place and I am going to ask that other people follow my example. |
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AmityBlight said: I don't like either but I go with Pua. Reasons: Why incels are mostly built of men who never approached women and most aren't aesthetically pleasing. I have admit they have points but not understand it go both ways. A Jabba The Hutt looking chick is not going to get a Ashton Kutcher or Johnny Depp. Looks play a part in dating but not 24/7 PUA just no different from an online guru. the ugly thing is what they claim themselves but the famous ones don't look that hideous. maybe other problems instead. the two main incel shooters |
Never heard of pua, but my intuition tells me that they are terrible.  |
Milzol said: @Auron_ she said that most were bitter and blamed "him" for past relationships. they wanted "him" to prove that "he" is not like the other ahole men they had dated in the past. i just bring that up because you said that there is no big difference between incels and pua's because they both have "unhealthy views about women". but almost all men are frustrated from dating. so that alone doesn't make them equal or something close to it. they are almost like "neoliberal" vs communist. one says that the only option is collective action, the other group says everyone can get from rags to getting laid. they are opposites. @Ryuk9428 i mean trying to change human nature is bound to end in desaster. you can try to redirect human urges in a productive direction. like with capitalism. isntead of plundering the other village you try to get young angry males to compete with each other by starting companies. but trying to get the "toxic masculinity" out of them is a bad idea. the same is true for this thing here. some incels say that women nature is just evil. whatever they want and like ther should be a system that is redirecting these urges in a healthy way, not just fighting them. oh i would support collective action is there were a workable plan, but just trying hard in believing in oneself only works in anime. yarvin makes this argument (and i think that he is right) that the main way that shifts to the right happen is when a demagogue allies himself with the masses. this leftist thing with changing the culture by being part of civil society and whatnot is not the way. even the french revolution was an example of that. the crazy leftists take over and it is so bad that they have to give power to a miliatary dictator who becomes more absolutist than the french king that the jacobins disposed. so should a strongman appear i would totally support him Human nature can change actually. People may say it’s racist but asian girls are definitely the least likely to behave in the manner that incels describe most women acting. Most Asian girls in-fact don’t act that way. Even asian girls born and raised in the US are noticeably less likely to act that way then other girls are. Every asian girl I’ve ever met and gotten to know well enough has dated awkward and reserved but nice guys. Don’t get me wrong looks so matter to asian girls too but they don’t seem put off by nice guy behavior like most girls are. This is because the asian cultures have placed a strong emphasis on intelligence, good values and morality for a very long time now. Europe did the same for awhile but we’ve become increasingly less rigid about it over time which is why we are close but not in the same situation as Asia is. |
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Ryuk9428 said: Milzol said: @Auron_ she said that most were bitter and blamed "him" for past relationships. they wanted "him" to prove that "he" is not like the other ahole men they had dated in the past. i just bring that up because you said that there is no big difference between incels and pua's because they both have "unhealthy views about women". but almost all men are frustrated from dating. so that alone doesn't make them equal or something close to it. they are almost like "neoliberal" vs communist. one says that the only option is collective action, the other group says everyone can get from rags to getting laid. they are opposites. @Ryuk9428 i mean trying to change human nature is bound to end in desaster. you can try to redirect human urges in a productive direction. like with capitalism. isntead of plundering the other village you try to get young angry males to compete with each other by starting companies. but trying to get the "toxic masculinity" out of them is a bad idea. the same is true for this thing here. some incels say that women nature is just evil. whatever they want and like ther should be a system that is redirecting these urges in a healthy way, not just fighting them. oh i would support collective action is there were a workable plan, but just trying hard in believing in oneself only works in anime. yarvin makes this argument (and i think that he is right) that the main way that shifts to the right happen is when a demagogue allies himself with the masses. this leftist thing with changing the culture by being part of civil society and whatnot is not the way. even the french revolution was an example of that. the crazy leftists take over and it is so bad that they have to give power to a miliatary dictator who becomes more absolutist than the french king that the jacobins disposed. so should a strongman appear i would totally support him Human nature can change actually. People may say it’s racist but asian girls are definitely the least likely to behave in the manner that incels describe most women acting. Most Asian girls in-fact don’t act that way. Even asian girls born and raised in the US are noticeably less likely to act that way then other girls are. Every asian girl I’ve ever met and gotten to know well enough has dated awkward and reserved but nice guys. Don’t get me wrong looks so matter to asian girls too but they don’t seem put off by nice guy behavior like most girls are. This is because the asian cultures have placed a strong emphasis on intelligence, good values and morality for a very long time now. Europe did the same for awhile but we’ve become increasingly less rigid about it over time which is why we are close but not in the same situation as Asia is. I usually don't do this but very relevant meme. Also have you not heard about the growing trend of hikikomori and "herbivore men" of Japan? There are clearly those who've given up dating for reasons in Japan too. I know you didn't strictly say Japan but broadly Asian cultures but let's be honest you meant Japan. |
AuronAug 20, 2021 2:43 PM
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| Why has incels become such a big thing at all? Who is so crazy that the idea of creating an entire radical political movement because of the lack of sex seems easier to him than just buying a call girl? |
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Auron_ said: Ryuk9428 said: Human nature can change actually. People may say it’s racist but asian girls are definitely the least likely to behave in the manner that incels describe most women acting. Most Asian girls in-fact don’t act that way. Even asian girls born and raised in the US are noticeably less likely to act that way then other girls are. Every asian girl I’ve ever met and gotten to know well enough has dated awkward and reserved but nice guys. Don’t get me wrong looks so matter to asian girls too but they don’t seem put off by nice guy behavior like most girls are. This is because the asian cultures have placed a strong emphasis on intelligence, good values and morality for a very long time now. Europe did the same for awhile but we’ve become increasingly less rigid about it over time which is why we are close but not in the same situation as Asia is. I usually don't do this but very relevant meme. Also have you not heard about the growing trend of hikikomori and "herbivore men" of Japan? There are clearly those who've given up dating for reasons in Japan too. I know you didn't strictly say Japan but broadly Asian cultures but let's be honest you meant Japan. My girlfriend is Asian and she’s not Japanese. I’ve met a number of other Asian girls. You may not want to admit it but stereotypes exist for a reason. It’s not just the Japanese girls, most Asian girls are as I described. The hikikomori phenomenon is exaggerated. We are talking about less then 1% of the population in Japan. |
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| PUA's at most are scammers, the worst things you can hear about one of these guys is that he pays women or is an abusive partner. Incels are mentally ill violent men that live in their own world full of delusions and have killed numerous people including children because of those delusions. They are obviously way worse and should be treated with caution by authorities. I also believe that we should ban people that identify as incels to own any type of firearm.  |
DrSexyAug 20, 2021 4:42 PM
| 한 번만 살지만 제대로 하면 한 번이면 충분해요 |
| Not all PUAs are scammers. My 6'4'' friend signed up for one of their courses, and he's killin' it all of a sudden. Jokes aside, incels are obviously worse because they are actively being toxic and misogynistic, sometimes even violent, while PUAs are merely trying to sell you dubious pick-up techniques. |
| I've yet to hear of a Pick up artist going on a shooting spree because of his pick up ideology so I'll go with incels being the worse group. |
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| One one hand, there haven't been any PUA terrorist attacks. On the other, the vast majority of incels are just bitter, self-pitying losers living out of their mothers' basements whereas virtually all pick up artists actively go around manipulating and treating women like shit while the most successful of them are also the most despicable snake oil salesmen imaginable. |
Take care of yourself |
| I'd choose pick-up artist as the worse one all day long. Incels are often a victim of circumstance. They just want to have decent relationships with members of the opposite sex but like in any relationship, you can't control how other people perceive you. They're not without faults but it's hard to raise self-esteem when you continuously face rejections. Also, they're sort of trapped in their situation because social hierarchies exist and everybody would avoid you if you're at the bottom. They feel hatred and it manifests in violent behavior. For pick-up artists, they are just people who become adept at getting women after practicing constantly and mastering psychological tricks. They seem to be normal but upon a closer look, you'll find that they're despicable people. First of all, their only motive is to get into women's pants and dump the women after. In essence, they view women as playthings. Secondly, they distort the dating market because they are needlessly active and compete directly with people who look for serious relationships. Moreover, they give all guys a bad reputation and therefore keep good girls out of the market. Thirdly, they share their knowledge under the pretense of helping fellow men. But it's a scam, they only do it for profit and feedbacks to keep the ball rolling. Their advice is often bad, everyone knows that you can't force something like relationships. They will overlook the majority who fail and highlight the few who succeed. It's all for money and pussies. |
| "You misunderstood from the very beginning. You just believed what you wanted to believe." Rei Ayanami |
| PUA's For taking advantage of everyone. |
| English is not my main language |
| PUA's and it's not even close. I can't believe some guys still fall for that bs |
| Don't care. Neither of them have spent any time reading Clausewitz anyways. http://www.clausewitz.com/readings/Cquotations.htm#:~:text=War%20is%20the%20realm%20of%20uncertainty....%20War%20is,follow%20this%20faint%20light%20wherever%20it%20may%20lead. “In what field of human activity is boldness more at home than in war? . . . It must be granted a certain power over and above successful calculations involving space, time, and magnitude of forces." "In war more than anywhere else things do not turn out as we expect. . . . Perseverance in the chosen course is the essential counterweight.' They pursue their nihilistic endeavors without a grasp of the fickle , ever evolving battlefield. |
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| puas are pieces of crap who make money off incels and scam us in attempt to give us half assed advice that would get us all arrested self described incels are the last bastion of based people on the planet. i would argue that most men nowadays i would consider incels even if they dont describe themselves as such. but yeah the top 20% of attractive men is getting all the women. even the women on this forum who some of yall simp for are chad only every single woman is chad only it never began for us |
 penis lol |
| Incels are simply pathetic. Blaming other people for your own shortcomings is not what people with brains do. But in this thread, I have to go with pickup artists. They are literal criminals. |
| If you ever feel bored and are questioning the meaning of your existence, read deez blogs. Maybe you will find your answers. |
WutIsDis said: Incels are simply pathetic. Blaming other people for your own shortcomings is not what people with brains do. But in this thread, I have to go with pickup artists. They are literal criminals. Criminals how? What's illegal about what they do? |
| My waifu is the most wonderful waifu. Mai Valentine. We're freaking out that we're running out of time, but to do what? Should i stop and think of that? Is there something i could do to slow it down? Live in a day for once, instead of watch it sprinting by |
| I didn't vote because I don't know what a PUA is. I never understood why incels don't just fuck hookers or something. I know it's not going to change who they are but maybe it will inspire them to take showers. |
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WutIsDis said: Incels are simply pathetic. Blaming other people for your own shortcomings is not what people with brains do. But in this thread, I have to go with pickup artists. They are literal criminals. cope, the blackpill is based off of truth |
penis lol |
Milzol said: two very unpopular groups. rogers found likeminded people at first at this puahate board. some leftists just put both groups in a manosphere\antifeminist\mysagonyst basket, ignoring that pick up artists and incels are mortal foes. incels are fatalistic, they think that if you are under 6 feet tall and lack a strong jawline you just can't get laid. pua's tell you, you just have to walk in a confident manner, ask out strangers and learn some tricks from their expensive courses and you get in as many pants as you want. pua's are mostly scammers and frauds but atleast they tell you to take responsibility. I would say pick up artist are an evolved form of an incel. |
| You wont get laid for hating either of them OP you can say what ever you want if you have a gf it is because of your looks and if you dont: pretending to care about shootings wont get you laid |
highinhibitionNov 11, 2021 1:35 PM
| Pickup artists are scummy spergs. Incels are also spergs, but they're partly a symptom of a larger issue. That being said, even if pursuing meaningful relationships is harder than ever, they still take the brunt of the blame for constantly pointing fingers and not taking any steps to get professional help. It's not really a mental illness, but you can't deny they're at least a bit fucked in the head for one reason or another. So I'd say pickup artists are worse, they capitalise on those who took the first step towards getting out of inceldom and they steer them in the absolute worst direction. They're also just fucking cringe as all hell, not to mention how sometimes they're outright molesting lasses. |
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| As everyone already mentioned, PUA's are the worst around. When young men get wrapped up into those schemes (usually due to desperation),they themselves will go from victim to victimizer. because they'll treat women horribly and have a maligned view of the world that will hurt themselves as much as it hurts the people who unfortunately find themselves at a crossroads with said PUA recruit. But, I also want to say two things: first - some incels aren't as bad as many make them out to be, and second: femcels are just as bad as incel. Many incels can obviously be disturbing ad harmful, but others are just lost people that have some type of issue going on in their life (whether it be depression, anxiety, a disability, or an incredible lack of self esteem), that end up finding help in the wrong place: incel forums. Femcels are similar to incels, but in my opinion are worse simply because their existence is argued about and not talked about enough (in comparison to similar male anti-social behavior). While the mainstream media constantly bemoans incels and their online presence, Femcels seem to be taking over many discussion boards (even mainstream), and their anti-male ideologies are as dangerous and harmful as the nasty rhetoric that incels spew . That's why I think they're worse: it's like a hidden epidemic that hasn't been discovered and might not ever truly be taken seriously. |
dankchungusNov 11, 2021 6:56 PM
| "I eat beans" - Oda |
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