Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Gou Episode 21 Discussion

xIshimura said:
So, does this happen before Nekodamashi-hen?

Hulio said:
Yes.
I guess we could say that the chandelier ended the first loop.
And the Onidamashi-hen is the 2nd loop.
Whereas Satoko pulling the gun is the last loop, or probably the "present time".

NeonDZ said:

Nah,

Chargecoulomb said:


She had to figure out how things worked out in regards to Rena, Mion, Ooshi and her Uncle if she were to manipulate them like she probably did. That would make sense. I wonder how many time she killed and screwed with her friends.

Was Rika aware of the loops? Or was she not like the repeat Matsubiriyashi. I haven't seen the previews yet but if it's more loops in the past the fact that Rika didn't immediately try to recreate the events of Matsubiriyashi or Minagoroshi and was not aware about Takano's change of mind makes me doubt her 100 year old intelligence and maturity.

kuwangpa said:
Cool, it's Satoko's turn to experience the loops that Rika went through.

North25 said:
alright i have a guess on where this is all going.

Chargecoulomb said:


That's would make the people who want a good and bad end happy but, eh? It's kind of a lazy move to pull.

One thing common in Higurashi is fighting fate. Rika loosing would destroy that message. It would instead be something like "You can try to fight fate but it will come back and ruin you to nothing"

I'm expecting one last twist near the end from Ryuukishi but regardless of that.

I'm guessing that Rika kills Satoko or They reconcile and become happy lucky dochi again and/maybe stick it to Featherine.

If a Umineko Remake is hinted in Gou, Passione would probably be the ones doing it right? Regardless of what Ryuukishi said it feels like they rushed the last few episodes. Not sure whether they will do Umineko justice. If anything they might fall into the same problems that Deen did.

Fantyyy said:
You're seeing bad writing here simply because you lack the empathy to understand it.

NeonDZ said:

Nah,

NeonDZ said:


Yes, in one of the few times Ryukishi07 was actually direct about Higu/Umi connections, he outright said a few years ago Hanyuu was Featherine when she had her memory device damaged (which is said to change her personality and appearance in Umineko itself).

That said, he has been much more vague about the Featherine in Gou. The character doesn't even have a name in the credits yet, and in an interview although he didn't deny she was Featherine he outright said that name won't be used.

I think it's still the same idea though. Note that the Hanyuu in early episodes with Rika was just a fragment of herself, and said the real Hanyuu didn't want her meeting Rika. They also highlighted her horn damage, which was constantly shinning in the episode where she disappeared.



Takano was never Lambda herself, but Lambda was often associated with her since Lambda was said to have trapped Bern in a game before Umineko and people obviously associated that with Higurashi, figuring out Lambda used Takano as a piece. Then a later side-story had Lambda blessing a child Takano and she actually uses Takano as a piece in a separate game board in another side-story.

However, Lambda also had elements that seemed to point to Satoko, like her ojou laugh, her closeness with Bern, Bern mentions she fell for a logic problem about cutting a cake that also stumped Satoko and in Umineko Tsubasa Lambda is associated with prank-like traps.
(The cake bit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66-5Y9C5MVU
Of course, none of that really beat how there was an entire backstory around Lambdadelta trapping Bern for a long time in a game that had nothing to do with Satoko at all. Before Gou.

Although some people still doubt it, I think Satoko is going to become Lambdadelta herself. The game referenced now can just be Gou itself. There are still details that need to be filled in, but I think they're progressing towards that.

That's why Satoko was associated with a Takano-like character like Vier by Featherine this episode, why her casual clothing (high school age) resembles' Takano's, why the scene with Satoko hugging Rika transitioned straight to Takano hugging Tomitake... Basically, They're associating Satoko with Takano now due to the previous association between Lambda and Takano which needs to be acknowledged if Satoko is Lambda.

Note that one of the names Featherine used for Satoko this episode (and the only one actually tied to Satoko's name) was LD3105
LD = LambdaDelta
3105 can be read as Japanese word play involving numbers.
3 = Sa
10 = To
5= Ko

Alfonse said:
I honestly can't give a s*it about anything going on in this show anymore. I don't care about Satoko's new loop powers since the reason for her being upset is so unbelievably dumb. I don't care about this new witch character or adult hanyuu(?). Nothing here clicks. The reason why Rika was going through her loops in the original is because of Takano, whose reasoning for spreading the virus throughout town was to fulfill her grandpa's research and prove to the people who laughed at both him and her how wrong they were. She also had a tragic backstory where she lost her parents (which she blamed on herself) and was forced to go to an orphanage that abused her relentlessly (to where she was forced to watch other orphans getting pecked to death and was forced to lick literal feces to clean the toilets with her tongue - in the manga, though the anime was pretty gruesome, too). Takano's reasoning actually made the events in the seasons engaging because you wanted to see how far this character would go to achieve her ends.

Satoko's intentions are just petty and completely contradict the type of character she developed into. The whole point of the abusive uncle arc was for her to overcome her dependency on her brother; that was how she had the courage to tell CPS that she was being abused. But now we're going back to this dependency character of hers? Why is her character regressing? And if you wanted to make her the dependent type, why even include the Teppei arc at all where her character becomes less dependent? What even was the point of the episodes before this time loop? Was it just to attract people with the images and aesthetics of the old show? I'm not seeing the point.

By the way, Satoko is 100% to blame for everything here. She's the one who pushed Rika away when she offered her help multiple times. Nor did Rika force her to go to the academy but she went anyway and made no effort to actually talk to Rika again. Her entire goal is to just keep Rika from pursuing her dreams. Her character is just completely unlikable now and I just cannot care for her or her motivations here at all. I don't know why R07 was so proud of this season because there's literally nothing about it that even comes close to the original show in terms of mystery and character growth. The only reason why you might like any of these characters is because you remember them from the original and they have the same mannerisms and voices. Satoko and Rika time looping is a cool concept, but it's just shot in the foot because Satoko is a complete idiot who's looping because she's upset Rika is doing well without her...even though Rika offered her a helping hand multiple times...and who is still somehow clinging onto Rika.
This whole season just feels unnecessary.

Oh and how exactly did that chandelier drop? She just snapped her fingers and it just fell. Maybe I missed something?
Also, since Satoko can time loop, why doesn't she use that to her advantage and improve her grades? It just all sucks.
If you like this show that's perfectly fine; more power to you, but my god I just cannot understand what R07 was thinking with this. I hate saying "bad writing" because it makes me sound pretentious, but this is just not good.

Gar_Logan said:
I don't think BD sales really matter much these days in terms of second season or other sorts of predictions, but apparently Gou Vol 1 sold 1400 copies.

ssjokg said:


Isnt 1100-1200 sales the "whateveryoucallit line" that BD/Dvdn have to pass to be considered good?

I am disappointment really.

If this leads to a Passione Umineko project I think I will stick with Deen's.

Chargecoulomb said:


Can't say anything until we get the final sales numbers, but..

1-2000 isn't good for blue ray sale numbers. But for the Series as a whole streaming, merchandise and Mei probably make more money anyway. Even the viewership for the Ani-one uploads on YouTube are not that good.

Higurashi is a wide series so this might not count but anime usually break even at 2-3K and normally series above 4k are considered for sequels.

Mormegil said:
By the end of this series, I may end up hating both Satoko and Rika. It's bizarre to me that Rika would be so standoffish to Satoko, considering their deep friendship.

MurukoHiiragi said:
Oh I see, I've read the interview of ryukishi 07 and it's not featherine

Hulio said:
Are you sure you read it?
Did he say "She isn't Featherine" or did he say "Her name isn't Featherine"?
There's a vast difference.

Also, knowing Ryukishi, saying the latter implies more that she indeed is Featherine than that she isn't.

MurukoHiiragi said:

I guess what he said is her name isn't featherine but him saying "thatv is very similar to that charac"
I interpreted it as "they may have strong similarities but she is not featherine even her name"
So my conclusion is ryukishi07 saying she is not featherine and her name isn't featherine.

This is what ryukishi said (imma copy paste it)
"Well... indeed, there is a character in Umineko called Featherine that is very similar to that character. But for that character, voiced by Hidaka Noriko, her name is not Featherine."

I dunno that's what i came up with, maybe diff from anyone 😅

ssjokg said:
I mean, if he says he would be wrong or right depending on how you interpret it. Same here.

I doubt that he will pull a "she is completely unrelated character" bs twist.

Jesus what is wrong with this Satoko girl... honestly hate characters like this where they blame you for everything when you literally stand in front of them and ask if they need help.

Snakeform said:
I don't understand why people are so upset with Satoko.

Satoko explained her struggles to Rika, and told Rika that studying for an entry into St. Lucia Academy will drain her entirely, that she won't be able to keep up with classes and her best friend. That'd she not fit in like Rika. Rika reassures Satoko and tells her not to worry, and that she'd always be there for Satoko, no matter what. She promises. Satoko gives Rika a chance.

Believing Rika, Satoko devotes more than two years of her life to fullfill Rika's dream of enrolling together into St. Lucia Academy. They both enroll successfully, but as Satoko predicted, she is unable to keep up or fit in, whereas Rika is living the dream. Satoko's been had by Rika.

Rika asked Satoko ONCE whether she should provide her a lending hand with her studies. Satoko declined the need, because Rika's clique didn't seem quite as accepting.

You promised your best friend you'd be there for them after they emptied their heart to you, and then you do them dirty like that? C'mon.

Rika also witnessed the conversation the Head Teacher had with Satoko, so Rika knew something was up, but did not engage the matter. Why? Sure hope that cup of tea that you're drinking is worth more than your best friend's dedication to fullfill your dream.

Satoko did nothing wrong here. Rika deserved every ounch of it.

ssjokg said:
Yes trapping your friend in endless loops of death and torture is fair game if they supposedly ignore you in highschool.

How long till we start saying that school shooters are in the right?

Chargecoulomb said:
How many people have you grown distant with over the years? How would you feel if one of them showed up and killed you over it?

Snakeform said:



Why make a promise if you cannot keep to it, to your 'bestest' friend no less. Satoko opened up to Rika, told her she'd rather not go. But Rika insisted, it'd be a dream come true if Satoko comes with.

Rika was selfish this episode, only caring about her 'happy ending', whereas Satoko was merely dragged along so Rika would feel good about herself. Sure, Rika may have spend over a 100 years to get to this point, but that doesn't mean you should trample over your 'bestest' friend's feelings.

Satoko got absolutely nothing out of this exchange, and yet she kept on giving.

I've grown distant to a couple of friends, yes. Who hasn't? However I never asked my friends to dedicate two and a half years of their life on getting into a specific academy, just so that I can be happy. That'd be ridiculous.

Rasco said:
Rikaa got what she fucking deserved, what a little bitch she used to be lolz.