To what extent do you agree or disagree with the italicized statement?
| It comes as no surprise that certain morally questionable elements in anime, and by extension fiction in general, have garnered significant attention in the form of heated discussion, and even backlash from some demanding such shows to be widely condemned and even cancelled. The latest drama (for this season) has been on the depiction of rape in Redo of Healer, and the claim of the main character in Mushoku Tensei being a pedophile by some. This is not new as there is always an ongoing debate regarding violence depicted in video games, despite it being normalized in anime and television shows. I shall now issue a general statement regarding other morally questionable elements, such as pedophilia, rape, incest, sexism, etc. that are sometimes portrayed in anime. Regarding pedophilia, rape, etc., the author should make known within the context of the anime that such ideologies and acts are morally questionable at best. The main character should certainly never uphold or endorse these ideals or actions unless the main character is portrayed as villainous. Any normalization of such elements by the author in an anime, regardless of context or setting, should be censured as it is vile and can even encourage such behavior in real life. To what extent do you agree or disagree with the above? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and any implications surrounding such elements portrayed in anime. |
OpticflashFeb 4, 2021 12:00 AM
| The issue is that dumb people are so fucking impressionable. And some few of these dumb fucking people can do dumb shit influenced by this. Smart people won't do that, but 90% of humanity is dumb enough to not be skeptical and pragmatic. |
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| Only if they don't glorify it and handle those topics with care. |
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| I would have selected agree but given the fact that I like dark humour a lot and dark humour usually makes jokes about such subject matter, I voted for neutral. |
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| I'm quite neutral in this debate. To be honest, I don't really mind what an anime chooses to do, as long as it isn't completely useless in terms of contributions to plot, character development etc. I'm fine with pedophillia as long as it isn't romanticized, like in Working! where the MC quite literally states he only likes things under the age of 12. The limit I can take for this is Blend S, where at least you can assume Dino isn't seriously a pedophile from his other actions. Rape, is quite hard to get right in anime in my opinion. A lot of the time, it feels like it is simply used for shock factor, for example in Redo of Healer, and doesn't actually portray the fear that goes into it properly, in a way it slightly romanticizes rape. However, I am fine with it being used sensibly, like in Perfect Blue, when even though it was consensual, the director managed to project the fear and terror that stems from rape. Racism is typically not really seen that often in anime, and even when it is used, the reasons for it are absolutely ridiculous, so I won't comment on that for now. Sexism, however, is very common within a lot of anime. It can get quite irritating at times, especially when it is overused as a common trope throughout an anime. I have not yet seen an anime that has properly delved into the topic, though I hope I will one day as so far my experience with sexism in anime is that it is just brushed over most of the time. TLDR: I'm pretty neutral. |
| "不幸だ!" - Kamijou Touma Check out my anime list by clicking here (it's public now).  |
| I agree that these topics should be treated in fiction, it is a good way to make it known that these actions and situations exist and should not be overlooked. As with sex ed, it is something that should be discussed openly, but the way I see it, it all depends on how you deal with these topics. In the case of Redo of a Healer, everything surrounding violence, sexual abuse, and rape is garbage. The characters are excessively bad and the story has nothing interesting or deep. If it had been handled differently, I think there is no problem with violence or rape as long as it is treated carefully. The big problem is that beyond that, the show has nothing to offer other than shock value. |
| guess i'm on a neutral side, I enjoy explicit content in fiction to spice the story but it depends on how the creator using such elements, what they trying to say or what they trying to do to including such behavior. if it's beyond disturbing I'll just simply leave it alone and stop watching |
| I got flamed once on this site for questioning the ethics of the new healer isekai so I think I might just sit this one out |
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| I wish people used at least half the energy they use going after drawings and go after things like Cuties and actual child pornography. But I guess it's easier to sit in the safety of your house and attack drawings from your moral high horse. |
 cunnysseur |
| I think the author should make it clear that these things are vile even if the protagonist is the one doing it. A twisted protagonist can also be interesting and they would challenge the normalized "goody two shoes" stereotype. However, the author needs to make it clear that the protagonist is the protagonist but he isn't the "HERO" of the story, but closer to a villain because of their personality and extremely negative actions. |
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| Surprisingly balanced distribution of answers on that poll so far :)) as for me i will always like to have more anime with controversial content to quote the actor from Joker "I don’t think it’s the responsibility of a filmmaker to teach the audience morality or the difference between right or wrong” "For most of us, you're able to tell the difference between right and wrong. And those that aren't are capable of interpreting anything in the way that they may want to" |
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| I couldn't care less, let the creators create whatever the frak they want, if it sells, good for them. |
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| I don't think that humans are that much stupid to take that, I am talking about who is watching anime.... We got a conscious mind to think about what is bad or good. I hope humanity is still alive. |
 ◽◽◽ ᓚᘏᗢ ◽◽◽ Having lived through trauma and mind-fucking, I'm accustomed to it now. |
| I went with Disagree. To me, it's about how tropes are used and what audience they're geared towards. For example, it's a super lazy trope in shoujo for the female lead to be threatened with rape or other abuse just as an excuse for the male lead to protect/save her. Or in yaoi, for the rape victim to instantly get over their trauma when he meets "the right guy". As for controversial sexual content (loli, shota), I stay away from it because I'm not interested in seeing that. I'm probably also not the target demographic. At the same time, I'm not looking at hentai expecting some paragon of moral virtue when the point of it is satisfying kinks. Controversial tropes have their place in stories IMO. It's all about what the author decides to do with them. It's easy to tell when something is placed in there just because the author is lazy and couldn't think of something else; or they want to go for quick, cheap shock value; or if they're trying to insert their own opinions — compared to when the author uses those tropes to advance the plot and give more depth to the characters. |
| I mean, to be honest such topics make me personally uncomfortable - for various reasons. But I think I am somehow neutral on this? I know not everyone views it as this, and some enjoy/or do not care about such Topics being portrayed as it is just fiction for them. If it happens in a Show/Manga I am watching/reading, then I don't necessary drop it - it all depends how and in what context it is portrayed for me. If they don't glorify it/normalise it or make it out to be "no big deal" then I am okay? with it. If it's only shown so a girl can be "saved" from the MC/ or used for "shock value" and so on then it's really unnecessary, like what's the point? I know this is a big thing in Shoujo Mangas that attempted rape is used so the Love Interest/Hero rushes to her Side and saves her, but I absolutely despise this trope, not only is it overdone but man....just why? It obviously still isn't easy to watch for me either way but for example I also really like SVU, among other reasons - it is a good show (even kind of necessary) the way Rape is portrayed there is not for a viewer's enjoyment but more sheds light onto it etc. So it isn't that I don't want to ever see, I think it is important to show that such Topics exist. But they should be treated carefully and not just thrown in there for shits and giggles. That said, some shows are not for everyone. I know a lot of People who like and watch Redo of a Healer, I personally will just stay away from it because I know what happens in it and that's that. |
"You think your power has limits, I say it's limitless." |
| Imagine being so vanilla you need your anime to explicitly explain why every nonconsensual sexual interaction is very, very bad. Even if it's for comedic and erotic purposes and not some misogynistic message. In Mushoku Tensei the MC is a fucking fat neek that lived a completely worthless life. That is enough context for the audience to understand that everything he thinks and does is a result of a terrible lifestyle and not OK at all. People who still accuse it of endorsing sexual abuse know better, they just hate these kinds of stories and want to criticize in any way they can, even they end up looking like they're typical moral authoritarians (SJWs). Stuff like Redo of Healer not existing would probably make the world a better place though. |
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| As long as those things are not glorified as something great I think everything should be ok to show. Those things are part of our world, history and humanity. So you can't just look away and ignore them, that's the wrong way in my opinion. |
~ I have ashamed of you ~  |
| I voted neutral, and this is my explanation. The avant-garde or taboo topics in certain anime are disapproved of by people usually, but by despising those two aspects they are despising their real idea and, perhaps, they do not know the proper way to use the avant-garde. I don't like Redo of Healer even though I have come to like the eroguro, I am not going to give explanations or make a direct criticism of this anime, but I will explain the avant-garde and I hope that my post is understandable. Perhaps many know this word for its post-modernist or violent side, but the important thing in this expression form is not to satisfy "inhuman" or similar people, but that the objectives of such works that support this concept want to reach themes that are not played in other more usual works (referring to those that are not "avant-garde"). An example can be Tokyo Akazukin, it is a work that can be despised by many due to its black humor, violence, negative approach, nudism and gore. But the gore does not exist in this work only to cause an impact on the viewer, but it is fully used to develop existentialism in a more rhetorical way. Read the first pages of the second chapter of Tokyo Akazukin and you will understand. In this form of expression, it seeks to explore existentialism, symbolism, religion, science, society and even humanity. I do not think it is possible to normalize nor should it be normalized since one of the many uses that it can be given is to be more unusual and to develop a dark meaning within it. In the same way, this type of content should not be consumed broadly by the reputation that can be expanded and the industry that can change forms of expression like these to something more commercial, reaching a negative evolution of expressionism. |
| well, tbh, I'm neutral, bcs I believe fiction is boundless. however, author should expect backlash if they glorified things like rape and torture. I personally find such content disgusting, and will judge negatively people that enjoy it. However, that doesn't mean they can't like it or author can't make such content. As long as they put clear warning, so people that can't stand it can avoid it. |
 OTP: KidLaw | IzuKatsu | GureShin | EruRi | AoKi | See more!» My art » My translation » Doujinshi collection » Favorite Kurobas doujinshi BISHIES X RAP |
| Woah theres a good amount of people voting for agree, I guess humans never change. I just don't get the idea of how a drawing made by some old Japanese men can hurt people in real life. Keep putting more of these restrictions on art and anime will no longer be anime, but I guess that people actually want. I'm gonna go with neutral on this one but I'll also lean a little onto disagree. |
 I said keep your hands on the table |
Arin-san said: Woah theres a good amount of people voting for agree, I guess humans never change. I just don't get the idea of how a drawing made by some old Japanese men can hurt people in real life. Keep putting more of these restrictions on art and anime will no longer be anime, but I guess that people actually want. I'm gonna go with neutral on this one but I'll also lean a little onto disagree. It boils down to: If I don't like it, then no one else is allowed to. |
| I of course agree that everything you just listed is bad IRL, however I also believe that murder is worse then what you listed. Many people (including myself) have no problem with a protagonist that kills such as Light and even fucking Simba (I think he kills scar), Of course I don't condone killing actual people but as it is fiction I don't mind it since it's not real and doesn't affect me at all, just like redo |
| Im totally fine with a author making pedophilia, rape, sexism and racism seem good in the context of where its written Of course my knee jerk reaction was to say no those shouldn't be allowed to be expressed as good. But after thinking about it Id say I dont have the right to suppress ideas just cause I dont like them along with the fact I dont think my moral compass can be easily changed just cause something I find unmoral was portrayed as moral or good so I have nothing to fear personally But I understand why people do want to ban the spread of bad ideas for fear of influence from fiction. Whenever I talk to a Christian there is almost the instant desire in my head to ban and destroy every copy of the Bible cause they constantly defend slavery, rape of women and the killing of children because their morals have been so incredible influenced by their evil story book that they see it as moral and good But Im unsure if actually banning something suppresses an idea which can be exchanged with word of mouth |
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The author should make it clear that these things are vile. Since when are fictions supposedly written to teach right and wrong? I know it exists, but it is certainly not the main goal of every tale ever told. This kind of question is especially weird here, when 99% of the mass-produced japanese animation is pure entertainment (even if most doesn't "entertain" me, I can see that it's their main and sometimes only reason to be). PS: this reminds me of all the idiot comments on english-speaking websites about films that are only interested in stating that the film should have "punished" some character for doing or saying or thinking a thing or another. Nowadays, the lack of a negative reaction about something is equal to promoting it ! Seriously... (Obviously, such comments intend to argue that the film is thus bad.) PPS: oh, and of course, if characters in a fiction piece act in a certain way or voice their opinion and those are "bad", it necessarily means that the director/writer/author/creator is talking his own convictions through them unless there is a clear and explicit condemnation (like the character dying, failing at whatever he does, etc). NONSENSE edit: obviously, I chose "neutral". =========================== Tasel said: I wish people would go after things like Cuties. What's the problem, again, with this film? (I'm french but that's not why I'm asking.) "There's an underage girl flashing her tits." @Tasel Thanks for the answer! It's kinda (would I dare to say "totally") part of the subject the film chose to illustrate... (Also, no matter what the age of the breast is, there should be no problem with seeing them. The way people treat this thing on the internet is weird.) |
Rei_IIIFeb 4, 2021 6:28 AM
| Up to them im just an anime enjoyer but if we talk about big view certainly all those element not allowed to show off. Bear in mind, anime can be watched by anyone difference way in cinema there are age restriction to watch any mature content |
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| Acts like these should be represented as vile. It's a trap that a lot of anime falls into, and why forum lards get up my ass about it. That goes for just about every anime that contains them. Take Jobless Reincarnation, as that is the freshest in my memory. Having watched all 4 aired episodes, the reincarnated mcdude™ has his actions of stealing his teacher's panties, peeking at them, etc portrayed as wacky hijinks. It's all good fun! We're having fun, right? This is utterly common and not unique to this show at all but it's nevertheless framed as not a disgusting act. Sure, we're told that he was obese lard of a man but then his gross habits are just portrayed as haha, funny because he's a cute owo baby now. Then comes his best friend Sylph! Sweet innocent Sylph. It'd be a shame if the show just casually threw out the idea that the MC could groom her to be his wife and not dwell even a second on that train of thought. Totally, okay, moving on so we don't have a second to question what the fuck is up with that...gross. Don't even wanna get into how Fatherdude™ has 5 minutes of feeling uncomfortable but it's okay, he's just a scum! Don't worry though, I respect him because he stronk. We don't dwell on the fact that he cheated on his wife after 5 minutes and now they're magically poly. At this point, it's fairly clear the show is operating on a disgusting moral compass and it's not very hard to comprehend that the original source material had him wank it to loliporn. It's a shit show for shit people and anyone making excuses for it just want to not hear our complaints because it disrupts their enjoyment. Boohoo, I say. No, other shows doing the same shit isn't an excuse for this show. It's still disgusting. If shows had the decency to portray such acts as what they were, instead of as wacky hijinks or just glossing over it, perhaps the anime community wouldn't collectively be defending pedobait shows. |
TylaenFeb 4, 2021 2:15 PM
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| Sword art online and monogatari(me being generous) sweating rn |
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| The real life ethical implications of controlling fiction are far worse than the fictional ethical implications on real life. |
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| Strongly disagree on any form of censorship or moral censure. An artist shouldn't be limited to subjective social norms. The above IQ meme isn't that far off - the average person doesn't really understand the value of the arts or how crucial artistic freedom is in preventing a society's stagnation. One of the core features of art is how it can inspire & challenge people to look at the world from a different angle. Art can't challenge your perspective with uncomfortable themes if they're all carefully curated & preapproved to suit your moral compass (which typically isn't even based on an objective authority anyway). Koi Kaze, for example, is explicitly pro-incest and portrays the social stigma against it as a tragedy. There is no disclaimer to say "Oh btw, incest is wrong and you shouldn't try this at home." It's just there. It's there and you as a viewer have the responsibility to draw your own conclusions & take a stand for your own position. Now maybe there is just trashy, lazy fetish content out there. To which I say, so what? If something is pro-pedo and it sucks, then move on. |
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| That's just a stupid narrow way to look at things. Everything should be allowed so long as it's not explicitly trying to get people to do something harful at which point it's just propoganda rather than art. Ideally a good character can be portrayed but unrealistic standards of perfection just give people the wrong idea and stops them from expanding their world view. It's good to understand different people in how they think and be able to empathize with them rather than only care about unquestioned unwavering judgment. |
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| People needs to calm their tits over such things. I feel like Mfs have never watched stuff like Game of Thrones if they start questioning morality after watching some of the messed up scenes in anime. |
| I'm kinda torn between agree and neutral but I'm more leaned towards neutral. I'm never against the portrayal of said topics, but it makes me sick when I see everything so normalised and even glorified, like in Mushoku Tensei. Dude hasn't got even a spark of guilt or shame. He didn't have any in his previous life either. And the girls in his new world are just shaped according to his fantasies so they just simp for him and be one of his many wives so that he gets away with everything. Talk about convenient. Another example is the common rape yaoi trope where the rapist never faces any consequences and gets a happy ending. I've also read a few scenes from Super Lovers and that was straight up pedophilia/incest and they made it look like it's something romantic. But I'm okay with everything else as long as they aren't portrayed as something positive. 01Wind10 said: I of course agree that everything you just listed is bad IRL, however I also believe that murder is worse then what you listed. Many people (including myself) have no problem with a protagonist that kills such as Light and even fucking Simba (I think he kills scar), Of course I don't condone killing actual people but as it is fiction I don't mind it since it's not real and doesn't affect me at all, just like redo Yeah but they kill bad people, that's the difference. Most antagonists kill good people but they're not portrayed as something positive. Or when people make a serial killer movie they don't portray it as something good. If someone like Light existed irl, there would be many people who support him. But that's just my own PoV, don't take it too seriously. Would people support a rapist who rapes fellow rapists tho? Idk lol. But some people would see that as karma. |
| If you read Eleceed you're automatically my friend. |
| Yeah, the quickest way for a show to piss me off and make me disregard it's value entirely is to show these things in a positive light. A great show can be ruined by tasteless decisions. These elements can be done tastefully if they are part of the story and are very clearly shown as negative ideas, but I find that in anime specifically it's pretty rare for these things to be handled without hints of fantasization about them. Two examples off the top of my head of it being handled well: There are too many examples of it being handled poorly. You all know them anyway. I find that pedophilia is more often the worst of these things though, because so many shows play it off as a joke to the point that many people in the community are completely desensitized to it and will defend it passionately. They won't say they are defending pedophilia, mind you, they will say they are defending "loli culture", but the underlying issues remain the same. |
 "They escaped the weight of darkness, to forge a path into the marrow of the spirit. They chose to drown in a deeper vacancy, an emptiness that quells the null, a pool for the forgotten..." |
Tasel said: I wish people used at least half the energy they use going after drawings and go after things like Cuties and actual child pornography. But I guess it's easier to sit in the safety of your house and attack drawings from your moral high horse. Agreed. It seems easier for these idiots to go after artists for their "problematic" fiction and harass them with false accusations. they need to put that energy into attacking actual online predators that are interacting with and hurting real children. Fictional characters don't have human rights and do not need to be protected. |
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Rei_III said: What's the problem, again, with this film? (I'm french but that's not why I'm asking.) There's an underage girl flashing her tits. |
| cunnysseur |
| Agree. Fiction can have a stronger impact on people than some may realize |
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Rei_III said: Thanks for the answer! It's kinda (would I dare to say "totally") part of the subject the film chose to illustrate... (Also, no matter what the age of the breast is, there should be no problem with seeing them. The way people treat this thing on the internet is weird.) I don't really care that much about the movie to be honest, just that it was a low hanging fruit that I used to help my argument. |
| cunnysseur |
| I chose agree but I'm leaning towards neutral now Regarding pedophilia, rape, etc., the author should make known within the context of the anime that such ideologies and acts are morally questionable at best. okay, kinda agree with this. Unless the plot itself has a different moral coding where rape and murder is the norm and something else isn't. I haven't watched anime like this but I've read some manga with this setting which I don't remember the name of. I don't believe these should be censored cause that leads to the original setting of the plot getting destroyed. We're also aware that we're watching something which IS morally questionable, the anime does not need to make it known itself cause that leads to inserting the author's opinions into the plot and we end up watching biased content. Such works are also obscure - someone said something about expressionism above, basically that The main character should certainly never uphold or endorse these ideals or actions unless the main character is portrayed as villainous. Yes. It's okay to feel empathetic towards the main character in such events - this doesn't mean you support their actions or that you're an apologist. Empathy =/= support. I think being able to understand why a character has reached this point is necessary but doesn't mean we don't hold them accountable for their actions. Context is just an explanation for their behaviour but never an excuse. I'm not going to cancel an anime if the main character has problematic traits that is contextually proven. In fact, Light is my favourite character in Death note but I don't endorse his actions. I did drop MT after 1 episode cause I just didn't dig the story at all and how some topics were handled. I might read the source material to see if there's any form of redemption. Onanie Master Kurosawa is one of my favourite manga too, they handled these topics very well imo Any normalization of such elements by the author in an anime, regardless of context or setting, should be censured as it is vile and can even encourage such behavior in real life. AGREE. I wouldn't want to see a new construct formed out of such elements yikes |
curlywurlieFeb 4, 2021 6:41 AM
 |
| @Tasel Me neither (Thought it was fine but I disliked it). Thanks for the clarification. ^^" |
| I personally don't think art, literature, or even the entertainment industry have the moral obligation to guide us to "the right path" if adults are the target audience (which they are when the content is rated 18+). I can, as an adult, watch/read something that goes completely against my moral values and still appreciate it in its context, even if it's romanticized. I can enjoy a good story written from the perspective of a character in a dysfunctional relationship who romanticizes abuse, for example, and find the character's perspective and reasoning an interesting peek at a different worldview, even if I judge their actions as abhorrent. People are often more sensitive to certain elements than others (taking lives generally seems to pack a lighter punch than sexism, which I find odd), and everyone has their red lines. Mine just happens to be a bit more exploratory, and I'm able to go out of my comfort zone more often than most people. |
| I agree, because art is a representation of the artist’s values. It disgusts me to think that such a person really exists and is making money through reprehensible work. |
| その目だれの目？ |
| I oppose ALL forms of censorship - even the most abhorrent ideas are permissible for expression. Everyone should be allowed to do whatever they desire, provided such does not infringe upon the rights of others... which includes writing stories about immoral protagonists. That all said, I can still despise a work of art based on any objections I may have to the content, no? Cartoons do not make choices for humans. |
  |
Lucifrost said: I agree, because art is a representation of the artist’s values. It disgusts me to think that such a person really exists and is making money through reprehensible work. No. A piece of fiction is not necessarily representative of the artist's values all the time. |
| Let them do whatever the fuck they want. nobody cares about your morals on the internet. its fiction. just because you enoy a mc doing rape for whatever reason, doesn't make the person bad. sure it makes the characters bad, but who. gives. a. shit. |
| "Nobody is stronger than me, even when I go easy on them. Remember that" - Ayanokoji Kiyotaka |
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