Toaru Kagaku no Railgun T Episode 14 Discussion

Tiau said:

He was somewhat aware of what happened in the second arc, we do not know if he knew since the beginning of the series it's the second time we've seen the dragons timeline wise but not the 2nd time within the entire series. You have to keep in mind that Railgun adds things to connect with the latest Index arcs, but not timeline wise.

Laplace_kun said:


Honestly, I won't even reply anymore. I give calm arguments, and they just hold their ground stubbornly, going back to square one. If they refuse to accept what is right, and remain with their conservative approach, let them be. And I was actually trying to help them because not everyone can waste their time , like reading 40+ novels and even the Railgun manga. Picking up on Touma has become a unique trait of these people, and that makes it look even more pathetic. They refuse to accept logic or reason. They take facts as defensive arguments. And they are still adopting that childish mentality of being fascinated by power-levels and expecting everything to go as they want it to be. They even criticize the author without reading his work, when they haven't got the least sense of how simple things like plot development, character depth or world building works. Or they just know these things very well, but holding onto their opinions for satisfying their blind ego...

I mean you have all the right to have your own opinions. But there is a way of doing that, without blaming the creator, inserting wrong/forgotten information (which might confuse other anime-onlys) and not pointing out what was actually wrong. I mean, in my original post I did say that the episode felt rushed. And the way Index adaptation was done, there are many who would simply take Touma as that 'black haired generic Mc whom we should know everything about because we are supposed to self-insert into him'. So they could have said that this moment felt unearned in the anime, which is correct criticism. This could have been pointed out as a narrative mediocrity. More funny is the thing is that if any other character like Misaka or Accelerator does something like this, without any logic, they will just accept it like 'oh so coooool' and 'wow so OP'.

NHS-KEMISH said:

I asked you, and only ignored it :(

NHS-KEMISH said:


Ohhh ok, so that's how the author manages the spin offs, I get it now. So it would be safe to assume before this battle he wasn't aware of this type of power, and after activating the dragon power he now knows sth is going on with his arm not only IB....???

Laplace_kun said:


I wasn't referring to you in any way. I am referring to close-mindedness and conservatism of a certain portion of the fandom. (Who knows, even I might be one of them). I mean I am anime-only in almost all amine I have seen, and tend to be confused about events.
Somebody else more or less answered your question while I was offline, so I didn't want to make things complicated by adding more.

Basically, Index OT, if you read carefully, hints that Touma's arm has things unknown and unheard of. With very few Easter eggs and hints, it was kept hidden from the reader, as both Touma and the people accompanying him had no knowledge of it. So when he unleashes Invisible Thing against Fiamma, the readers got that satisfaction of finally getting their expectations met.
It was thus, a gift from the author when he reveals the dragons in the side-story of Railgun manga instead of the original novel. The fans felt rewarded, because this was a moment they were waiting for, for YEARS.
However the haphazard adaptation of Index amine, which lacks depth, made even the main plot points seem irrelevant to people. (CASUAL WATCHING INTENSIFIES). Forget about theorizing and looking for trivia, trying even to understand the main story required effort. Index III made matters worse, by high density info-dumping. So anime -onlys did not get the feeling of anticipation. They felt these moments of Touma were unearned and uncalled for.

RayReynolds said:
@Tiau One day they tell you that Touma can die from some rubble when he survived the fall of that floating island in Index III, while others tell you that he cannot even die.

Tiau said:

I'm not sure if I entirely agree with some of this post on the other hand though, while it is true there are hints about the purpose of Touma, it wasn't until NT that we actually got any hints and easter eggs(heh) worth mentioning. When Fiamma got attacked by IT the fanbase had no idea what that was, it was above our expectations. Infact even now, when the dragons got revealed in Railgun there wasn't really any clear signs how seperate the two are if any, it was until much later people could answer this question(and even then the theories forms are not universal, people argue about this stuff everyday in some places). The thing the anime adaptation really missed out on is the conclusion of how Touma feels about himself as a person, I can argue that the feeling of "what the fuck is that" that some anime onlys have is pretty much the same reaction some people had reading the novels

Laplace_kun said:


Yeah, I agree, but it wasn't out of expectations or felt like a deus ex machina. The shock factor was important after all. But in the anime version, it is more of an unearned and out of place shock.

Tiau said:

I'm not really sure, at least I can say the way the scene was presented it worked well atmosphere and direction wise(also the similarities between this scene and the one in this episode bring up some more questions within the fanbase). At least anyone who's stuck with Index 3 at that point isn't gonna call out Touma as a des ex machina, actually at least in regard to that part people seemed more hype for what's to come(at least the people who do reactions anyways, speaking of which I should look at some for this moment as well)

RayReynolds said:
@Tiau One day they tell you that Touma can die from some rubble when he survived the fall of that floating island in Index III, while others tell you that he cannot even die.

RayReynolds said:
@Tiau One day they tell you that Touma can die from some rubble when he survived the fall of that floating island in Index III,

salamander750 said:

Posting a joke/nonsense post from the wiki means nothing Railgun-anime only. In truth, it just show that you has no knowledge of the franchise that you rely on a dumb comment on the wiki.

Laplace_kun said:


Yeah, I agree, but it wasn't out of expectations or felt like a deus ex machina. The shock factor was important after all. But in the anime version, it is more of an unearned and out of place shock.

hazarddex said:

honestly that scene only flaw was the music should have been more dark and looming rather then upbeat. it would convey that moment better. while index season 3 is a mess the music was well done this would have fit for the dragons better.

hazarddex said:


it slowly sank into the ocean it's not like it dropped like a meteor. if it dropped like a meteor everyone on the planet would have died. the floating island was big enough to cause a 2nd KT impact that killed the dinosaurs.

and touma did "die." anime didn't explain it well at all once again. the explaining is left for me.

your not even suppose to know he survived in the final volume of OT.

Birdway practically brought him back from the dead. which is why he feels so indebted to her in NT.

hazarddex said:
so editor releaseed a bunch of lore facts about each dragon

hazarddex said:
This dragon specializes in psychological attacks. If it bites you, you could have your memories destroyed.

Abysswalker116 said:
As someone who's only seen the anime, and didn't know what to expect, the multiple Dragonheads just felt like a complete asspull and I didn't like that at all.

Otherwise good episode, especially the part with Kongo.

hazarddex said:
okay jc staff no seriously WHERE IS THIS EFFORT WITH INDEX?

MahiaErebeaNegi said:

So glad that they finally explained the stuffs about the dragons and why the land were suddenly frozen after the dragons was summoned.

I wonder if this is a sign that Kamachi will reveal more about the dragons and IT in later GT volumes?


So this is why Izzard lost his memory at the end of OT2, I always thought he lost it due to being too scared at Touma's "berserk" lol.

ssjokg said:

Gunha's powers, Misaka's 5.2~ powers and Touma's Dragons all together created it. It is just one of the confirmed urban legends Saten talks about.

Tsukumo_Yuuma said:
hey guys i don't know anything about the main series but i'm gonna complain anyway and you can't criticize my opinion even if i said some wrong information.

hazarddex said:
so editor releaseed a bunch of lore facts about each dragon

hazarddex said:
so editor releaseed a bunch of lore facts about each dragon

@ssjokg

@MahiaErebeaNegi

"The four-eyed dragon has multiple eye powers. It has illusion and hypnotism powers that can blur the line between dreams and reality. It is also a singer with a beautiful voice that can shatter even Shadow Metal."


The one-eyed cobra dragon is a water dragon that summons rainstorms. Its fangs contain the undiluted concept of poison, so anything living it bites will either die or experience a fate worse than death.


The blind dragon is a darkness dragon. It too has a powerful psychological effect, so you'll be overcome with terror and confusion when it's nearby.


This dragon specializes in psychological attacks. If it bites you, you could have your memories destroyed.


The corpse flame dragon is an undead fire dragon with flames erupting from its bones. It damages things with an energy drain that seemingly burns life force itself.



The ice crystal dragon is as tough and solid as the planet itself and it breaths ice.


The spear head dragon releases lightning from its body and fires lasers from its mouth.




your not an anime watcher your a railgun only watcher if you think it was an asspull

was in literally season 1 of index episode 9



anime adaptation didn't adress it well (again what a surpise.)

In novel styl writes it off as a distortion, but touma felt as if there was more to it then that because how it erased the alchemists memories.

Magmafrost said:
As a great man once said: "Of all the stupid! Asinine! SHARK JUMPING BULLSHIT!"

Tiau said:


Eh, the anime isn't at fault here, there's literally no concrete explanation to give you, even now there only remains theories about Touma's arm

Hatsuyuki said:


It's most definitely a director effort. Railgun's director should teach Index's how to properly adapt this kind of material.

redcobra said:
Finnaly touma get great adaptation he deserve to showcase his true power.

Seriously JC staff you should make that dragon long time ago since toaru no index 3 vs fianma.

RayReynolds said:
woah gentlemen I comment a lot of trash against to Misaka but nobody cares, I casually say one thing about touma that was not even specially bad thing and automatically everyone to defend it. It's not like they retcon, it so it felt like it went backwards on Mikoto's character wasn't something really negative, it just makes it clear that even here she is not the protagonist.


@Nurguburu hypocrite

RayReynolds said:
woah gentlemen I comment a lot of trash against to Misaka but nobody cares, I casually say one thing about touma that was not even specially bad thing and automatically everyone to defend it. It's not like they retcon, it so it felt like it went backwards on Mikoto's character wasn't something really negative, it just makes it clear that even here she is not the protagonist.


@Nurguburu hypocrite

Tiau said:

Honestly, it isn't really a director effort issue(Index actually always delivered in big scenes like these, even in S3 with it's own reveal for the MCs). The issue is pretty much production side of things, we even learned that the people who animated these spots was supposed to work on Index III but couldn't due to the scheduling. If they had gotten what they wanted like more episodes from the production committee things would be very different.



There's a reason why things are different, and it isn't really a matter of them not wanting to use a dragon or not. It is a intentional thing on both ends, the question really remains for you why do you think that is?

Hatsuyuki said:


This production is literally plagued by a global pandemic and it managed to be better than Index S3. Not sure what you're talking about tbh.

Also this DEFINITELY has better storyboarding and direction than Index S3, lmao.

Tsukumo_Yuuma said:

js06 (the LN translator) translated them from the manga editor twitter
https://twitter.com/js_06
+ they released a special illustration

kidlat020 said:
forgive me for being an animeonly, but even reading all the comments here, there are still problems with the dragons.

1. does touma even know this? and I mean ALL of the dragons in him?
2. or was that just a product of having GUTS?
3. does he know the extent of their power?
4. what was his assurance that he'll survive the sphere attack? why would he even jump straight towards death?
5. I mean they (touma and the guts guy) were having problems GETTING CLOSER to Misaka.

this is just lousy writing. I can easily spot lousy writing and filled with plotholes as this is coming from an avid visual novel reader. the confusion is definitely justified. basically, if he knew the extent of his dragon powers why even struggle? if he doesn't knew does he have a death wish when he jumped directly towards Misaka?

hazarddex said:
okay jc staff no seriously WHERE IS THIS EFFORT WITH INDEX?

ChloeVonEinzbern said:

That's cause Railgun >>>>>>>∞>>>>>>>> Index. Index S3 anime never happened.

hazarddex said:

railgun 1 filler and the entire railgun S filler arc that even the railgun editor said was a mistake that should never had happened.

ChloeVonEinzbern said:
Dunno, I found the fillers with Febri very good and if I didn't read the manga then I wouldn't knew that this was a filler. Felt like it was a part of the story.

hazarddex said:




as another avid reader of books visual novels AND light novels.

1. touma lost his memory since season 1, but he had some idea of the dragons due to events in season 1 episode 9 where the dragon king made its debut. dragons have been references constantly since then. there are also several hits about toumas past including angel fall where his dad told him the place he grew up in saw him as a god of pestilence.

railgun chapter 67 which this is the adaptation of was released a few months after NT 9 which explains a lot about Imagine breakers origin. so while chronologically it takes place before outside the w timeline the author wrote railgun to begin with as a basically explanation and teaser for stuff in the main series. he fully expects people to have read the main series before reading any of railgun. which is why railguns manga title is railgun gaiden

2. No nothing to do with guts but part of crowley's plan and dragons are mentioned in the fittingly named dragon arc when accelerator and co are trying to get baggage on Crowley. again this is a novel that was written before the manga and index season 3 even adapted it (although cutting out most the details.)

3. No he does not future NT novels expand on this. this moment was meant to serves as a teaser for the next main arc in NT.

4. you seem to not understand his character not surprising as the anime butcher it. please remember he was quite willing to die at the end of index season 3 and in several arcs prior to that. such as the sister arc vs accelerator to save everyone. touma while very strategic tends to see himself as the only piece that can be sacrificed on the board. he already views himself as having died since the end of the first arc of index.

5. doesn't look like a question just rambling.