| Depends on how big the contrast is. I agree with you on Violet Evergarden, but to give an opposite example: I hated Classroom of the Elite, but I liked the art style and character designs quite a lot. However, they weren't able to save the anime from the disaster it was. I'd say good writing is more likely to save a shit-looking show than good art is to hide crap writing. |
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| To a certain extent, sure. But there's a point at which the visuals or the storytelling would need to be so great to overcome the suckiness of the other part. |
| If the anime in my top favorite slot for roughly six years is any indication... at least with Dragon Destiny and Great Guardians because lolJCStaff. |
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| To me, no. If I identify or notice too many writing 'failures', it can be the prettiest anime ever, I'll not like it as much as I would were it to have great writing and lackluster animation or art. I do think this is mostly personal and will vary from person to person, but I do value the storytelling aspect in a story much more than its visuals. From where I stand, it's a lot easier for a show to completely redeem itself with amazing storytelling even if it has 'ugly' visuals than for a show to redeem itself with amazing visuals if it has 'bad' storytelling. So, I'd say if the poll didn't have the vice-versa at the end, my answer would be a strong no, but since it is there, I'll refrain from answering. |
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| Well, stuf like Chuunibyou Demo Koi Ga Shitai it's popular basically just because it was made by KyoAni when the characters and the story aren't nothing special. Meanwhile the Berserk (2016) anime it's shit despite being Berserk because the bad CGI. |
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| Yeah i think they can, some anime i watch for the sheer beauty of it. One example that comes to mind is 5 cms per second. the story didnt do much for me, but i watched it through for the amazing art. An example of the opposite would be the currently airing vinland saga. The animation is not good, despite what many fans have deluded themselves into thinking. But the story is great, which keeps me going |
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| it depends. art is a huge factor in my enjoyment. violet evergarden was drawn well but even that couldn't save it from me finding it super boring and repetitive. dropped it. |
| 馬鹿げた倫理 全部ガラクタで |
| pretty pictures are only interesting for a few minutes. great writing will keep you engaged for hours. good visuals aren't going to save bad writing, bad storytelling, or bad characterization. good writing won't "redeem" bad art or bad animation or bad directing, but it will make the bad visuals bearable |
| "I like young-girl sexual creations, Lolicon is just one hobby of my many hobbies," he says. I ask what his wife, standing nearby, thinks of his "hobby". "She probably thinks no problem," he replies. "Because she loves young boys sexually interacting with each other." |
Heimur said: Well, stuf like Chuunibyou Demo Koi Ga Shitai it's popular basically just because it was made by KyoAni when the characters and the story aren't nothing special. Meanwhile the Berserk (2016) anime it's shit despite being Berserk because the bad CGI. I actually liked chuunibyou both for the art and story. I love wacky comedies and the whole chuunibyou setting. But i can see how most people wouldn't be into that sort of thing. Just curious, did u like nichijou, asobi asobase, danshi koukousei no nichijou, arakawa under the bridge etc (if you've seen them i mean) cause shows like these don't have a set story either, but i liked em for the wacky comedy |
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Aniik8pv2 said: Heimur said: Well, stuf like Chuunibyou Demo Koi Ga Shitai it's popular basically just because it was made by KyoAni when the characters and the story aren't nothing special. Meanwhile the Berserk (2016) anime it's shit despite being Berserk because the bad CGI. I actually liked chuunibyou both for the art and story. I love wacky comedies and the whole chuunibyou setting. But i can see how most people wouldn't be into that sort of thing. Just curious, did u like nichijou, asobi asobase, danshi koukousei no nichijou, arakawa under the bridge etc (if you've seen them i mean) cause shows like these don't have a set story either, but i liked em for the wacky comedy yes, haven't watched, yes, eh more or less. I don't have nothing against wacky comedy, my problem with the series falls under the 'romance' and how it slow progress (something that I would see that doesn't happens on the scond season), the devolpment of the characters, the main guy being kind of bland and the main girl having the personality of a potato when she isn't acting like if she have autism. And I didn't find the series or the characters particularly funny like with Nichijou just cringe like with WataMote. |
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| Great visuals cannot save a bad script. See: Another, Plastic Little, Psychic School Wars, Ponyo (don't @ me). However, bad visuals cannot hinder a great script. See: Fantastic Children, Kino's Journey 2003, Trigun. |
 This glorious signature image was created by @Mayumi! I am the Arbiter of Absolute Truth, and here is my wisdom: "Anime was always influenced by the West. This is not news. Shoujo is the superior genre primarily aimed at young people. Harem/isekai are lazy genres that refuse any meaningful innovation. There is no 'Golden Age.' There will always be top-shelf anime. You should be watching Carole & Tuesday." |
| For me, strong visuals and music will always as important as good writing, if not more so. It's amazing when a show or a movie's got both, but I'd much rather watch something that's a visual feast with very little 'meat' vs something that's got the most interesting and beautiful characters and themes and whatnot but is muddy, grey and dull to look at. That's why I love Redline but couldn't finish Monster. |
| For example Fire Force and kimetsu no yaiba does not really have the greatest story writing but the animation in those shows are gorgeus. There are also show with great writing but bad animation, like One Punch Man season 2. |
| Go check out my latest review: https://myanimelist.net/profile/YeeYeeAss/reviews |
Heimur said: Well, stuf like Chuunibyou Demo Koi Ga Shitai it's popular basically just because it was made by KyoAni when the characters and the story aren't nothing special. >Implying Rikka is nothing special bro I'm going to banish this world  |
 ❅Aoishi❅ ✿My Profile ✿MyAnimeList ✿MyMangaList |
| I think they can definitely enhance a work but not carry it. I consider the writing in FF and KnY quite average but the visuals still turned it into a 7. KnY has a pretty damn awesome OST that helps a lot too. |
| poop |
Kuro_Neko04 said: Heimur said: Well, stuf like Chuunibyou Demo Koi Ga Shitai it's popular basically just because it was made by KyoAni when the characters and the story aren't nothing special. >Implying Rikka is nothing special bro Bruh, it's ok to like anime girls with autism, you don't need to post a gif replying to someone who doesn't seems nothing special on one you like because they don't like her. |
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| Great art/animation can't redeem horrid writing. Great writing can redeem horrid art/animation. Because you can just read the manga. |
| I don't think a nice aesthetic can redeem poor writing, but I do think that good writing can redeem lackluster art. It really depends on how bad the art is, though. There are some cases where it's just a no-go for me due to some visual aspect I just can't get used to, though these cases are truly few and far between. Writing, on the other hand, can never be saved by visuals alone imo. |
 "I am not sure that I exist, actually. I am all the writers that I have read, all the people that I have met, all the women that I have loved; all the cities I have visited." ― Jorge Luis Borges [url=]Goodreads[/url] | [url=]Letterboxd[/url] |
| I've been able to get over ugly visuals for well-written shows like Golden Kamuy. I'd say well-animated but poorly written shows can still be enjoyable, but in most cases they can't really recover. If the writing is so bad that I start getting angry while watching the show then I don't give a sh*t how pretty it looks. |
| I think bad art/animation has a bigger impact than good one does. With good art/animation, it's kinda like you just acknowledge its presence and focus more on the story and whatnot (unless it's really stunning like KnY or VE). Bad art/animation however you tend to take notice of it more and it really dampens the experience. Last season's Cop Craft, for instance, would've probably had a much higher score had it had better animation But good art per se doesn't really help a not really good show. Lots of lower rated shows in the past few seasons have had some really good art (at the very least character designs) like Isekai Cheat Magician, Val x Love, Azur Lane etc. Also, who be saying Vinland has bad animation lol? It's actually pretty good. It's the CGI that's bad though |
 'On-Hold' is another way for a completionist to say 'Dropped' |
| they are not mutually inclusive. I mean shitty half assed story can still be fun if it looks pretty enough! But if it looks like shit, it fuckin turns you off to look at it, you aint watching it long enough to give that story a chance. I voted yes but your poll should have 4 options instead. |
| Yeah, it obviously can work both ways. A lot of the times you can tell when a production is just a way to animate some cool ideas or get across a certain aesthetic or feeling. This is the case with a lot of OVAs, and it'd be stupid to cry about some plot holes or whatever when the staff never gave a shit to begin with. And I'm super lenient when it comes to low-budget productions too because sometimes that low-budget 'feel' itself can be very charming. Though I think a bad production is a bad production if it can't somehow balance out its strengths with its weaknesses as part of the experience and as the audience it isn't really about weighing the writing against the animation as separate elements. Though 'bad writing' for me goes beyond some weirdness or silliness and 'good writing' is more about dialogue and emotion, so perhaps I'm more forgiving than most anime fans in some areas and more critical in others. |
| No, it depends on what you care. If you like a story, there is no animation that can save a shitty show. If you care about animation, there is no plot thar can save you from a shitty animation. And if you like both, probably one of them being shitty is a NO. In my case, I almost don't care about animation, BUT, I'm really picky about animation so when I see a really good one, I really enjoy it. |
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| Great art and animation can maybe save a story that's at least okay, but average or below average stories, no, the story needs to not be shit. The story should NEVER be something you just put on the backburner. Anime, TV shows, and movies are all the same in that they're just storytelling mediums done in different ways, don't neglect the storytelling when you're dealing with a medium that's one job is to tell a story. At least make your story passable, or give it enough of a hook before deciding to dump every single ounce of effort you've got into the animation. Animation can enhance the story, but it can't supplant it. |
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| I would say one can never redeem the other in the sense of making it not matter. Some shows can just be good or enjoyable enough by only excelling in one of these areas, but they would always be improved if they were improved in their weaknesses. Bad writing or bad animation always matters. It's just that sometimes shows can still make for a great viewing experience despite being seriously flawed in one of those areas. And in the end I would say it depends on the specific show. For me personally it's easier to make me forget or not recognize bad animation or an artstyle I don't like if the characters/plot/writing is really captivating. If my mind is occupied with plot twists, it doesn't have time to be too worried about the visuals. It also works the other way round tho. If something looks fantastic and mesmerizing, I don't necessarily need a great story to appreciate it. But there is one crucial difference: Good writing can carry a show basically indefinitely, at least as far as I'm concerned, while good visuals can only carry a show for a limited amount of time. If it's a movie or an OVA with 2-3 episodes, I'm totally fine just watching great visuals with animators going all-out, even if the writing is boring. But for a 25 episode show I always need some level of good writing to keep being hooked until the end. So basically I'm saying that the effect of good writing doesn't wear off over time, ubt the effect of fantastic animation/visuals does. That's the main difference to me. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| You can paint a pile of shit gold, but it'll still be a pile of shit. All I care about is whether or not something is boring. |
| No, definitely not. The animation is just frosting on the cake. The cake (aka the story) can still be good without it. |
| "The name's Gambit. Remember it." -Gambit "X-Men '97"  |
| It's the opposite tho. People are ways harsher than usual with the writing and such when an anime has great art and animation. |
| I think good writing can redeem bad art but vice versa is not true, at least for me. |
RealTheAbsurdist said: What do you mean by "bad writing"?Can an anime with bad writing, be redeemed by great animation? Or can an anime with bad art/animation, be redeemed by great writing? Examples: A lot of people watching Vinland Saga agree the animation is not exactly great, but the writing is phenomenal. I think overall Vinland Saga is still amazing for this reason. I thought the writing of Violet Evergarden was lackluster, but the art/animation blew me away so much, that I gave the anime a 7. If by this you mean "the story was boring" or "the story wasn't enjoyable", then I guess not, but then again, the visuals also influence the narrative experience, so there's no really good way to separate out the role of the "writing", nor the visuals for that matter. There may be cases where I wouldn't have enjoyed the story as much but the visuals impressed me, but I don't know how I would truly say that that happened or didn't happen. (I mean, there is at least one case where I found the visuals interesting but the story underwhelming, but was it because "the visuals were interesting but the story was underwhelming", or "the story was underwhelming despite being helped by the visuals"?) I mean, to define "bad writing", we first should define what "writing" is. What does "writing" refer to? Is it literally just the dialogue, or does it include things like narration? Does it include delivery of lines within scenes? Does it include pacing of story events? Does it include choices of setting/scenery concepts (not including the actual art itself), which would be present if the script were for a stage play? Does it include things like the timing of commercial breaks and theme songs? Does it include narration within next-episode teasers? Is it a hypothetical "if this were just written as a book with no pictures what would it be like?" I've always found "writing" to be a really vague term because of this. |
GlennMagusHarveyNov 5, 2019 10:08 PM
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| depends how good the aesthetics/narrative is and how bad the paired narrative/aesthetics is. a 4.9 in aesthetics paired with a 10 in narrative will probably get a really good positive score anyway. we should be careful in describing what something like a "good narrative" is though. Some people think a good narrative means something that is deep and philosophical or does in depth character explorations. On the other hand in my book a narrative can be good even if the narrative is really simple but coheres well with an aim of delivering an aesthetic experience. Can't think of any anime I feel this way about atm but Looney Toons cartoons and old Disney movies come to mind. |
| Imo yes, but only in reverse case, so a bad art/animation can be redeemed by good writing. Your example: Violet Evergarden is a good one. Very nice visuals, but very lackluster writing. It is still not a bad anime though. |
| Absolutely. Kodocha has really basic art and animation, but it's still one of the best anime ever made (at least its early stuff.) It's harder the other way round, I don't think you can be great without decent writing, but something stupid but incredibly pretty can still be enjoyable in the right mood. |
Heimur said: Bruh, it's ok to like anime girls with autism, you don't need to post a gif replying to someone who doesn't seems nothing special on one you like because they don't like her. Bruh chill I was just joking lmao also she is not autist you uncultured swine |
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TheProblemIsntMe said: Great art/animation can't redeem horrid writing. Great writing can redeem horrid art/animation. Because you can just read the manga. Well yeah ! But if we're talking just about animation I guess nothing can redeem anything if the drawings are not good I can't follow the story and if the story is not good I got easily bored. Example for me: Piano No Mori I distasted the animation so much that I dropped it instantly, it could have a great plot but I wouldn't know... Red Data Girl - good animation imo but I still didn't get the plot, I managed just because it wasn't a long serie otherwise I would have dropped it ... |
NotxMeNov 6, 2019 5:32 AM
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