Sword Art Online (light novel)
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| - I think this project to make a rules that no human can break... - but as ussual... i dont know what the hell happen here... - i just sit and drink while watch this..... |
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| So Project Alicization is basically taking the minds of humans and then "cloning" them into artificial intelligence into a virtual world that can learn on its own to be able to kill? What is this, Total Annihilation? Kikuoka: "100,000 virtual beings are worth less than one JSDF soldier." Asuna: "You monster! 2D lives matter!" Now that ending with Rinko. Don't tell me that Akihiko Kayaba is still alive...as a fluctlight...What the hell man... |
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| Rinko felt obligated to help Asuna as she felt guilty for being an accomplice of Kayaba. This might also be the reason why she created the Medicuboid to ease her guilt, which had been a great help in Medical field, like how it help Yuuki to live in VR. But also because of this the STL is made, the Medicuboid is its based prototype. Kikouka is not really a pure bad guy, as he atleast let Asuna know the specifics, but then maybe he just also want to compromised Rinko so they can get her help lol xD Seems like Kayaba still involved in the progression of VR technology even though he is physically absent here. From Nervegear the Medicuboid is made, which is system design by him, its just Rinko who developed the actual machine. Then the STL is made from the Medicuboid, using it as its based prototype. Or its seems like its actually all according to his keikaku xD That Higa clone demonstration was creepier than in the novels, with the visual and distorted sound. Nurse Aki is back, lol that salute. Next episode should be back to underworld. Back to bromance. |
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GuidedCursor said: Of course she doesn't hold a grudge. Nobody she cared about died in SAO so she's fine with it."1,000 AI NPC "Lives" on computer are worthless." >Asuna : "I'm angry as hell" *a couple thousands people died during SAO* >Asuna : "At least I've spent some quality time with Kirito." |
| if it was the real world a single person informing the press about this "project" and the whole thing would be insantly shut down with japan regarded as an insane inhuman country by the rest of the world for the next 50 years but this is anime so i guess it's alright, they're just AIs xddd let's torture them and shit |
| First half was meh Second was good Second ep is still best ep Asuna's way of thinking is interesting |
AkerakaiNov 10, 2018 11:30 PM
| Most underated anime on mal: https://myanimelist.net/anime/4651/Yume_no_Crayon_Oukoku?q=Yume%20ni%20crayon |
-Riptide- said: It's a human soul but without a body. That's basically the difference between inhabitants of the Underworld and people from the real world. No its not human soul. The technology let them copy the brain neuron network and recreate it in a virtual enviroment. Its a perfect humanlike ai created with emotions + memories and everything of the person. This still doesnt make them real humans. |
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| I caught lots of points brought up that the AI could go rogue and activate singularity because the way they want to use AI as slaves. example asunas: "the rights of artificial intelligence" or Kikuokas: "The lives of 100,000 artificial intelligence are worth far less than a single SDF soldiers" |
Shadzzo said: -Riptide- said: It's a human soul but without a body. That's basically the difference between inhabitants of the Underworld and people from the real world. No its not human soul. The technology let them copy the brain neuron network and recreate it in a virtual enviroment. Its a perfect humanlike ai created with emotions + memories and everything of the person. This still doesnt make them real humans. The real question here is....WHY THE FUCK would someone want this kind of AI with felings and fear and whatnot in a battlefield? And worse, they want an AI that can BREAK the rules, thats literaly the oposite you want from a battlefield AI. Realy, the author must be retarded. Either the dude is lying and he wants the AI for something else, and the story is stupid because kirito's useles RL companions actualy believed that, or worse....The dude's realy intend on using this kind of AI for war. And then that just means the writter of this thing has no idea how the world works, at ALL. |
TougenNov 11, 2018 12:56 AM
Tougen said: Shadzzo said: No its not human soul. The technology let them copy the brain neuron network and recreate it in a virtual enviroment. Its a perfect humanlike ai created with emotions + memories and everything of the person. This still doesnt make them real humans. The real question here is....WHY THE FUCK would someone want this kind of AI with felings and fear and whatnot in a battlefield? And worse, they want an AI that can BREAK the rules, thats literaly the oposite you want from a battlefield AI. Realy, the author must be retarded. Either the dude is lying and he wants the AI for something else, and the story is stupid because kirito's useles RL companions actualy believed that, or worse....The dude's realy intend on using this kind of AI for war. And then that just means the writter of this thing has no idea how the world works, at ALL. I agree. It would be much better to create fearless obedient robot like AI clones to use in war. |
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Tougen said: Shadzzo said: No its not human soul. The technology let them copy the brain neuron network and recreate it in a virtual enviroment. Its a perfect humanlike ai created with emotions + memories and everything of the person. This still doesnt make them real humans. The real question here is....WHY THE FUCK would someone want this kind of AI with felings and fear and whatnot in a battlefield? And worse, they want an AI that can BREAK the rules, thats literaly the oposite you want from a battlefield AI. Realy, the author must be retarded. Either the dude is lying and he wants the AI for something else, and the story is stupid because kirito's useles RL companions actualy believed that, or worse....The dude's realy intend on using this kind of AI for war. And then that just means the writter of this thing has no idea how the world works, at ALL. You are looking at this through an accute lense. That’s not the purpose. The purpose is to create a highly capable and adaptive AI that has the capacity akin to that of a human mind to learn and adapt to new situation because often the course of battle is unpredictable and many things don’t go according to plan (our world is not so ideal that you can predict with a pre-programmed code), so that’s one major advantage. The example of AI being too obedient and idealistic to its own world rules is just an example to emphasize the underlying fact that they still haven’t reached the more superior form of AI that has the full potential and is capable of having a capacity to think and act and learn like a human mind on its own. It’s not the best comparison, but i like to think of this concept’s end game as achieving something similar to Yoko Taro’s game Nier Automata’s 2B, 9S, etc who are androids that fight for humanity yet they feel so human. |
Shishou_23Nov 11, 2018 1:42 AM
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I love how mature Asuna looks here (right click->view image for bigger):  She's ready to kick some butt! |
| (|__/) Never give up, aim for the top! (='.'=) Top wo nerae! o(")(") Anime music: http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=777199 |
| well well well the true intention is to make a soul that capable to kill... SOUNDS GOOD DOESN'T WORK - TRUMP |
| Trust me people, it's better that you all are able to watch this exposition dump. Reading it is fucking agonizing. Side note...whoever made that joke about Asuna's hypocrisy...you're the champ fam. Rinko is mega babe tho. |
| Don't believe the hype. |
RzN23 said: The final scene with a person in the stl was kayaba right? Dont mind the spoiler That was Kirito i believe. |
NAZMUS_SHADAT said: But why do they show the soul I mean fluclight of kayaba before that? there was also more stl machine besides kirito's. Well Rinko woke up cause she was dreaming of Kayaba and that other STL machine I think is still being worked on. I believe they mentioned it during the episode but can't recall what it was said about it. |
| aaaaah it bore me to tears i mean exposition and story is alright and all but i seriously couldn't care less about these characters i like the bits with Kirito and Eugeo because i kinda like the world and Eugeo is easily my favourite character in the SAO franchise but the real world bits just make me die inside |
| Well Eugeo is gay, Asuna is easily the best character. |
| (|__/) Never give up, aim for the top! (='.'=) Top wo nerae! o(")(") Anime music: http://myanimelist.net/blog.php?eid=777199 |
Mattinator95 said: People complaining about exposition then there's me watching monogatori for an hour People should make a monogatari marathon to relativise things a bit. Boltz said: Well Eugeo is gay, Asuna is easily the best character. Yeah and Alice aswell. |
| Welp |
ComboSmooth said: this author needs to stop trying to explain things..... He doesnt understand how computers work, how ai works, how science works, how politics works or anything. Before the explanation its all fine, dandy and mysterious but every time he explains something, he makes it dumber. This reminds me of people who complain about how science is used in SciAdv, they do not try to be exact, they try to rely on science to do things that "can not be done" This is also common in Hack where science of use in favor of the MMO but that really does not make sense if we apply it to real life. |
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| But if Kikuoka wanted to create an AI to kill, he could have taken the artificial fluctlights of the two Integrity Knights fighting. Though they did not show the black knight dying, it was clear the white knight intended to kill him. Which means Kikuoka might have wanted an AI that can think for itself, such that they can rule personal emotions over set rules, like the Taboo index. But such AIs already exist, for example Yui and Yuna in Ordinal Scale. He could simply take those for his research instead. Did I just find a plothole, or is more explanation coming in future episodes? |
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Nayout said: ComboSmooth said: this author needs to stop trying to explain things..... He doesnt understand how computers work, how ai works, how science works, how politics works or anything. Before the explanation its all fine, dandy and mysterious but every time he explains something, he makes it dumber. This reminds me of people who complain about how science is used in SciAdv, they do not try to be exact, they try to rely on science to do things that "can not be done" This is also common in Hack where science of use in favor of the MMO but that really does not make sense if we apply it to real life. There is totally room in sci-fi for super future science that is more or less magic -all im saying, is its better to not give an explanation than it is to give a bad one |
| https://combosmooth.itch.io/ - I make free-to-play browser games for PC and I sell pixel art animation here |
Justin_Neo said: But if Kikuoka wanted to create an AI to kill, he could have taken the artificial fluctlights of the two Integrity Knights fighting. Though they did not show the black knight dying, it was clear the white knight intended to kill him. Which means Kikuoka might have wanted an AI that can think for itself, such that they can rule personal emotions over set rules, like the Taboo index. But such AIs already exist, for example Yui and Yuna in Ordinal Scale. He could simply take those for his research instead. Did I just find a plothole, or is more explanation coming in future episodes? Integrity Knights stuff will be explained later. In a sense, they are above the law, but they are still bounded and can't think for themselves. The dark knight is from a place where rules and standard are different. You should take note of the System Alert thingy in Eugeo eyes from episode 1. That's a crucial plot point to the whole thing why Fluctlights in the Human Empire of Underworld can't violate the law. And Yui and Yuna are not bottom-up AI, they are still programmed. Yui is so human-like because she has 2 years worth of data from 10.000 players in SAO. Never again is there a circumstance that allows reproduction of an AI on that level. Kikuoka knew about Yui but Kirito and Asuna did not let him have hand on her. |
Takao_21 said: Tougen said: The real question here is....WHY THE FUCK would someone want this kind of AI with felings and fear and whatnot in a battlefield? And worse, they want an AI that can BREAK the rules, thats literaly the oposite you want from a battlefield AI. Realy, the author must be retarded. Either the dude is lying and he wants the AI for something else, and the story is stupid because kirito's useles RL companions actualy believed that, or worse....The dude's realy intend on using this kind of AI for war. And then that just means the writter of this thing has no idea how the world works, at ALL. You are looking at this through an accute lense. That’s not the purpose. The purpose is to create a highly capable and adaptive AI that has the capacity akin to that of a human mind to learn and adapt to new situation because often the course of battle is unpredictable and many things don’t go according to plan (our world is not so ideal that you can predict with a pre-programmed code), so that’s one major advantage. The example of AI being too obedient and idealistic to its own world rules is just an example to emphasize the underlying fact that they still haven’t reached the more superior form of AI that has the full potential and is capable of having a capacity to think and act and learn like a human mind on its own. It’s not the best comparison, but i like to think of this concept’s end game as achieving something similar to Yoko Taro’s game Nier Automata’s 2B, 9S, etc who are androids that fight for humanity yet they feel so human. The human brain is not that efficient when it comes to learning compared to some AI's, and thats nowdays in the RL world and not and in some science fiction universe like SAO...In that case an adaptative AI would still be much better than those 'human' AI's, since it would be able to adapt to the enviroment and situation through learning. BUT still do its mission withoud questioning its orders or the morality behind it, if you want an AI that can ignore specific orders if it feels its best to complete a mission, thats also better with an adaptative AI since it can learn and adapt much faster than something running a copy of the human brain ever could. The author simply has NO idea how AI's and computers work, there are soo much stuff more worthy of an adaptation with this level of animation that have much better stories than this, it just confusing as to what exactly did those novels did better in storytelling to deserve it. Because i honestly cant belive this dumb and plain lazy level of storytelling is good enough for it. |
TougenNov 11, 2018 7:45 AM
| The morals in this show are so bizzare. No Asuna, you should not thank Kayaba for fucking anything. The world would be better if SAO had never existed as Kayaba intended. It would have been better if all those people hadn't been murdered and you and Kirito never got to meet, and you should understand that. Everyone is a freak in this show |
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| The exposition is fine in and of itself (we needed it eventually), but this entire premise behind the STL and Rath is ridiculous, even by this show's standards, and downright stupid and irresponsible to boot. Kikuoka is insane (how the fuck does he get the idea that the Nerve Gear could change war forever? that makes no sense, even for a madman), this whole plan is insane and my interest in this nonsense has dropped dramatically because of this. |
| This episode had a lot more info-dump than I thought it would, but it made the episode, as well as the story so far, more understandable and enjoyable. I just can't see Kikuoka as a bad guy at all, since his reasons behind the project and the fact that he values a life of a real SDF soldier over 1,000 AI people to be reasonable and is something I respect of a guy like him. Thankfully, Asuna seems to be content with his explanation and as for Rinko, I'm glad she's done well to help Asuna so far, although she still feels guilty over the whole SAO project with Kayaba. Anyway, from the sound of next week's title, we should be back with Kirito and Eugeo, so I'm certainly looking to it. =) |
| So to make it short. They are building skynet. An AI that can kill? Nothing wrong with that AT ALL. I waited for a reference to a rogue AI. I was disappointed... Seems like a big oversight on the SDFs part. |
Shadzzo said: -Riptide- said: It's a human soul but without a body. That's basically the difference between inhabitants of the Underworld and people from the real world. No its not human soul. The technology let them copy the brain neuron network and recreate it in a virtual enviroment. Its a perfect humanlike ai created with emotions + memories and everything of the person. This still doesnt make them real humans. However, that's not the point that was being shown. No one is saying AI = human. Why do human have rights anyway? There are different world views you can apply as to why. 1) Because we are human and obviously want to protect ourselves. This is the anthropocentric view, where things matter only because they are human. 2) Because we recognize humans has having "high" level of emotional intelligence. We are typically programmed to feel empathy for other beings with emotions (as we feel them too). This is the universalist view, where you start applying human morality to things that are clearly not human. If you only believe #1, that means that non-human rights (animal) obviously means nothing to you. What is the point of giving animal rights? They can feel pain and some species can approximate human emotions but ultimately they are not human. It doesn't matter if they have a physical body or not. If you apply #2, then giving rights to AI that have achieved sentience and can feel human emotions (since they originated from real humans as archetype) is not so far-fetched. That being said. there are way more series that explore this idea better. SAO suffers from a series of writing problems and other ridiculous things like: 1) Security is a joke in that place 2) Apparently, no one really understand what a NDA is and everyone and their mother is leaking everything. (At least in LN Asuna was cut off once inside the Ocean Turtle. Somebody had the stupid idea to add scenes just to add side characters) 3) It only took 5 years for Kayaba to invent a quantum device capable of hosting the "human soul". Given we have NO idea exactly how the brain works today, very much less can build a quantum computer that doesn't de-cohere quickly, this is as realistic as saying that Kayaba built a FTL-capable spaceship from scratch in 5 years. Point is, there are many things to criticize SAO for, but the concept "AI rights" is not a ridiculous claim. /rant |
bla bla bla The endless debate between fans and haters. At one point, after spending a lot of time on MAL, you just realize it's totally pointless.Niko-kun said: On MAL, everyone who has used the lame rating system becomes a critic and an intellectual by default, haven't you heard? |
| If these guys actually have Kayaba alive in this world, I'm gonna backflip lol |
HeroicHealer said: Tougen said: The human brain is not that efficient when it comes to learning compared to some AI's, and thats nowdays in the RL world and not and in some science fiction universe like SAO...In that case an adaptative AI would still be much better than those 'human' AI's, since it would be able to adapt to the enviroment and situation through learning. BUT still do its mission withoud questioning its orders or the morality behind it, if you want an AI that can ignore specific orders if it feels its best to complete a mission, thats also better with an adaptative AI since it can learn and adapt much faster than something running a copy of the human brain ever could. The author simply has NO idea how AI's and computers work, there are soo much stuff more worthy of an adaptation with this level of animation that have much better stories than this, it just confusing as to what exactly did those novels did better in storytelling to deserve it. Because i honestly cant belive this dumb and plain lazy level of storytelling is good enough for it. You're the one who doesn't know how A.I works or functions. I've been a programmer for some time, I think you're the one who's having a failure at logic and the fact that you haven't watched the show properly, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining over here. I'm surprised at how stupid and illogical one person can become, he mentioned. The top-down and bottom-up concept is specifically mentioned by Alan Turing, the concepts the writer used are from a real-life scientists, if you've studied history, computer-science and world-war 2 history you'd realize that the concepts he mentioned are linked to study on AI. First of all, AI needs to be able to adapt to different situations. A successful AI is one which can think for itself without requiring constant human input. Alan Turing also developed the Turing test, which is a concept that mentioned that AI being able to completely behave or represent human characteristics, mostly used in chat-bots which are expected to learn from their previous conversations and improve on it. The idea is to make the original human chatting with the AI chat bot feel like they're talking to a real-human. There's a paper on this written by Alan Turing and other researchers mentioned the Top-Down and Bottom-Up concepts. This guy helped save the allies in World War 2 by breaking the Enigma Code which was considered impossible to break, he developed an ingenious device called the Enigma code breaker, the device was ingenious and helped the allies defeat the Nazis. Also if you still got complaints, go consult Google where they also applied similar concepts and Google's AlphaGo AI beated the worlds top Go player who was a leading winner. The problem with your post is that you don't understand the difference between a Computer Program vs. an AI. A computer program follows a sets of instructions written by the programmer. An AI thinks for itself based on parameters assigned to it on specific tasks it also learns to develop and think for themselves. Search up neural network, read the definition it says "neural network is a computer system modelled on the human brain and nervous system." in otherwords used in AI, this episode was specifically giving out some knowledge on AI and you think you're an expert. No dude, you're far from an expert, stick to watching anime dude and questioning on plausible fallacies not ones written in a Science-Fiction tagged anime show. Also, do everyone a favor and search up the definition for Science-Fiction, you're embarrassing yourself over here, dude. Must I also post the definition over here for you to understand? Look dude everyone is entitled to their opinions, but the problem is when you begin ignoring posts which have already answered your question and continue to stretch it for hours and hours. Oh, we are going down to personal insults, are we? never once i questioned what is an AI, only said the uses of the kind of AI >they are experimenting on, on a battlefield is COMPLETELY stupid, and it is. That Ai that beat the go player you mentioned. All the AI's you mentioned are build from ground up, because guess what, genius, we cant scan a human brain and use it as an AI. not with the current technology we have, and all AI's build from ground up learn exclusively through learning and adapting. And the only uses a human based AI has is ONE, simulate humans, be it for interaction with humans, or to simulate human reactions. And thats it. |
TougenNov 12, 2018 12:11 AM
Did you guys realize this? |
Radu_Bey0Nov 12, 2018 12:12 AM
| DIGITAL PEOPLE HAVE RIGHTS TOO!!! This episode was almost as bad as the last one. |
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