| It seems like the days of manly, decisive and confident anime protagonists like Kenshiro from Fist Of The North Star, Spike Spiegel from COWBOY BEBOP and Guts from Berserk seem long gone. Instead the insecure and indecisive MC has become the norm, populating most of the new animes. Why did the anime climate change so much? (On the same note i find the lack of beards in anime disturbing ಠ_ಠ) |
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| Easy. Because it eventually became gay. |
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| Guessing it's because of the concept of making "the main character relatable to the viewers" and let's be honest, most dudes who watch Anime now of days are insecure and indecisive, well that's just a factor now of days, tbh I doubt most people are macho like Kenshiro, Spike or Guts back then and now so maybe it's just the change that has come with time. (oh a beard man :o, I like them a lot too makes them look more badass, wish we could have more MCs like that *Amon Amarth plays in background*) |
Aidoru-OjisanSep 18, 2017 4:42 AM
  Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
| Why are you comparing protagonists from action/adeventure/seinen anime to the average protagonist of a slice of lice/comedy/romance? Also beards are fucking unattractive, every sane man keeps it shaved whenever possible. |
| Maybe it's easier to develop insecure and indecisive MC. |
Aidoru-Ojisan said: Guessing it's because of the concept of making "the main character relatable to the viewers" and let's be honest, most dudes who watch Anime now of days are insecure and indecisive, well that's just a factor now of days, tbh I doubt most people are macho like Kenshiro, Spike or Guts back then and now so maybe it's just the change that has come with time. Or its just the fact that otaku nation dont want fap to muscular males but to underage lolis, and fujos want emo bishounens not muscles. |
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| Seems like the "I want relatable mc" crowd overran the "I want a good character" fans. While I am not saying that macho=good, indecisive=bad as there can be good and bad characters of both, its apparent that we came to a sad reality that if your main character is not pandering to the main demographic, the work of art will not sell. |
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Swagernator said: Aidoru-Ojisan said: Guessing it's because of the concept of making "the main character relatable to the viewers" and let's be honest, most dudes who watch Anime now of days are insecure and indecisive, well that's just a factor now of days, tbh I doubt most people are macho like Kenshiro, Spike or Guts back then and now so maybe it's just the change that has come with time. Or its just the fact that otaku nation dont want fap to muscular males but to underage lolis, and fujos want emo bishounens not muscles. tfw... yeah and then you got me fawning over a crossdresser character lol, I guess that's true. Yet when it comes to main characters wouldn't be so bad to see "Macho" badass dudes take the spotlight again, getting tired of all these "oh I'm so weak but will get stronger soon due to an ability that the writer of this series gave me" type of main characters. |
Ascended Taste I only came back to this site for the forum sets and to promote my RYM list... Anilist ftw still :dab: |
| Writing a beta, indecisive, dense, and a character with hidden past is easier to write. Trust my one of the reasons why I hate isekai and sao is that you see their stories literally by any amateur authors and the so called successful japanese authors with adaptation and high sales. Do you think guys with big muscles will sell out? Maybe jojo will but obviously isekais and shounen will probably sell better with a little effort to write. |
"When you made this thread, I cried and screamed" -Swagernator 2017 |
BECAUSE THESE ARE THE MANLY FUCKERS THAT WOMEN WANT    |
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SuperRed said: Also beards are fucking unattractive, every sane man keeps it shaved whenever possible. I do not think most of males really care what another male thinks about what is attractive on other males. Unless you are taking about gay business here. |
nymi said: Writing a beta, indecisive, dense, and a character with hidden past is easier to write. Trust my one of the reasons why I hate isekai and sao is that you see their stories literally by any amateur authors and the so called successful japanese authors with adaptation and high sales. Do you think guys with big muscles will sell out? Maybe jojo will but obviously isekais and shounen will probably sell better with a little effort to write. So should we blame the authors that write the pandering works of "art", or the audience that slurps it right up? |
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technically, skinny figure is easier to draw and animate... even DB don't save from this... there is still some exception but it's mainly in manga... in Shounen jump for example there is currently on run hinomarou zumou... even yuragisou and upcoming black clover technically has super buff MC tho still oftenly drawn simplified...  so, STFU your "pandering" nonsense argument and take a look at reality... |
KumaSep 18, 2017 4:52 AM
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| Probably because machismo is tied to conservative gender roles that are waning. Japanese men don't feel locked into that stuff to the same extent as they ostensibly did ½ generation ago. To elaborate, one might ask where macho behavior and ideals come from in the first place. I think it's largely a coping mechanism. Immense pressure on males to perform, not complain, be tough, be strong, what have you, has made many men adopt a practically inhuman ideal. I think there is a lot of pain at the roots of machismo. I'm not saying it's been entirely meaningless. Life is always a balance between pragmatism and desires. Practical reality has changed and the desire for a life of less self-sacrifice has increased. The individual male is assumed to have some sort of intrinsic value whereas, historically, value has been determined by things like capacity to provide for and defend the family. |
AburadakoSep 18, 2017 4:53 AM
| Because the 80's we're a time of hyper-masculinity in popular media. You've got Stalone, Schwarzenegger, Van Damme and the lot. It's just not as popular now. You still sometimes get an over the top muscular warrior type but more in terms of a gag. JoJo series is a notable example of both muscular physique and decisiveness in recent works. |
| What would Golgo do? |
| We are really comparing apples and oranges here you find more macho MC in action, seinien, shounen shows which are meant to be that way. Whereas in slice of life shows characters are supposed to be more realistic. SuperRed said: Also beards are fucking unattractive, every sane man keeps it shaved whenever possible. I guess I'm insane for having a bread. |
| Well, the way I see it, those weren't exactly the norm of their time either. Go back to the year or season those came out, and tell me how many shows had protagonists like them. You can only name shows like that in the first place because they are partially known for that reason and have upheld that reputation throughout the years. You speak as if those were in the same era, when in fact, the only thing they have in common is the fact that they are just older anime in general. I think this video is relevant, even though it's talking about anime more generally. Just apply everything you said to whatever is being said here. https://youtu.be/2iJhFroA-eo?t=6m6s Relevant timestamps: 6:06-6:46 and 15:11-16:18 So basically, what I'm saying is there were never much to begin with, but they probably haven't gone anywhere now. You're probably just not looking in the right places. |
| Because being super manly is essential to being cool anymore It's becoming cooler to be uncool |
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Darek said: Because the 80s when everything had to be MANLY are over. Yeah, exactly this. The macho era is long gone, like any other trend it comes and leaves eventually. If you want to revisit it, there's more than enough stuff left. |
Aburadako said: Probably because machismo is tied to conservative gender roles that are waning. Japanese men don't feel locked into that stuff to the same extent as they ostensibly did ½ generation ago. To elaborate, one might ask where macho behavior and ideals come from in the first place. I think it's largely a coping mechanism. Immense pressure on males to perform, not complain, be tough, be strong, what have you, has made many men adopt a practically inhuman ideal. I think there is a lot of pain at the roots of machismo. I'm not saying it's been entirely meaningless. Life is always a balance between pragmatism and desires. Practical reality has changed and the desire for a life of less self-sacrifice has increased. The individual male is assumed to have some sort of intrinsic value whereas, historically, value has been determined by things like capacity to provide for and defend the family. I do agree with your argument, and that that the need for masculinity has rapidly decreased in modern times, however should we forget the old ways of the macho men and lead way for a more sensitive and feeling generation of males to the future? Are the old ideals of staying strong in hardship and sacrificing yourself for your family outdated and should lay in the graveyard like many other outdated ideas? In my opinion we should have both, as the demand for the "modern" mc undeniably increases, the "indecisive"characters will keep appearing, however i hope that the popularity of those kind of characters doesn't dissuade authors from creating their own original (that may include manly) characters that don't fall in the contemporary cliche. |
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| but berserk just got a new anime.... |
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| it dont appeal to anyone anymore girls want their bishounens and boys want their hot cute girls |
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HypocriteSupreme said: I do agree with your argument, and that that the need for masculinity has rapidly decreased in modern times, however should we forget the old ways of the macho men and lead way for a more sensitive and feeling generation of males to the future? No need to forget them. You have plenty yet to enjoy and there's plenty of people who still like to indulge in it. But these old ways speak to the needs of a society that no longer exists. It's like expecting feudalism to be socially accepted today. HypocriteSupreme said: Are the old ideals of staying strong in hardship and sacrificing yourself for your family outdated and should lay in the graveyard like many other outdated ideas? You are sugar-coating a lot what in essence is pure machismo that enforces strict gender roles. The sort of message that tells men to protect and be strong, and women to be protected and submissive. HypocriteSupreme said: In my opinion we should have both, as the demand for the "modern" mc undeniably increases, the "indecisive"characters will keep appearing, however i hope that the popularity of those kind of characters doesn't dissuade authors from creating their own original (that may include manly) characters that don't fall in the contemporary cliche. Authors are still free to do what they want, but it's only natural that they follow trends and try to appeal to the current society standards because, well, they have to sell. |
romagia said: but berserk just got a new anime.... The last berserk anime release was 4 years ago and I will not hear otherwise. |
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| Because of herbivore male and carnivore female phenomenon |
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Because the age of musclebound knuckleheads are gone. They are an artifact of a defunct age. Good riddance. This is the age of real men, of progress, and of civilization.    Those over-generalizations though. I seriously hope none of this "because beta-cucks" type answers are serious. Else I might have to gleefully squeal "Look at all these crows calling the ravens black." |
 You gave up your freedom of speech when you clicked Agree to the User Agreement This is not a public platform. My gaze is the measure of all things: I stopped considering "anime" a helpful tag Recommended Essays Exploring Actually Excellent World-Building |
| That hyper-male design you're craving isn't as popular now. Give it another 10-15 years, it will come back around again. |
"I'd take rampant lesbianism over nuclear armageddon or a supervolcano any day." ~nikiforova |
| I want some macho guys yes please. Them pussy herbivore male totally doesn't appeal to anyone. Let alone girls. Macho guys>>>>>>>>pussy guys. Even better, macho guy + gay 👌👌👌💯👌💯👌 |
 OTP: KidLaw | IzuKatsu | GureShin | EruRi | AoKi | See more!» My art » My translation » Doujinshi collection » Favorite Kurobas doujinshi BISHIES X RAP |
| I want some macho guys yes please. Them pussy herbivore male totally doesn't appeal to anyone. Let alone girls. Macho guys>>>>>>>>pussy guys. Even better, macho guy + gay 👌👌👌💯👌💯👌 |
| OTP: KidLaw | IzuKatsu | GureShin | EruRi | AoKi | See more! » My art » My translation » Doujinshi collection » Favorite Kurobas doujinshi BISHIES X RAP |
| I don't mind them disappearing from my anime. The last macho anime guy I've seen was that bastard in Guilty Crown and that made me sick for the exact same reason I got sick of Game of Thrones. I'm tired of seeing douchebag that are there for the sole purpose of being hated by the audience and to initiate shock factor to them. I don't think being cool makes you a macho though. Because cool guys aren't disappearing from anime. |
| I mean, JoJo aired last year. This year we had Berserk (whether you like or dislike the adaptation, it exists) and Boku no Hero Academia (plenty of macho guys, especially All Might and Endeavor). It's not extinct, it's just not the dominant trend. |
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| Main consumer demographics have changed. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
Graumann said: I mean, JoJo aired last year. This year we had Berserk (whether you like or dislike the adaptation, it exists) and Boku no Hero Academia (plenty of macho guys, especially All Might and Endeavor). It's not extinct, it's just not the dominant trend. Don't forget about Drifters, that show was fantastic. |
| "what is Jojo's Bizarre Adventure" I'm sure you're all SO manly btw :-) |
We need more macho like Toriko here. |
NeoAnkaraSep 18, 2017 9:33 AM
 Kickstarter for Rokujouma is fully funded. Good work everyone. Lets wait for the result of our hard work together. |
| I think we can blame western SJWs and also Feminism in general for this. Yes, I'm sure we can. Netflix too. I recommend making a rant thread about it. But on Casual Discussion, not here. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
Pullman said: I think we can blame western SJWs and also Feminism in general for this. Yes, I'm sure we can. Netflix too. I recommend making a rant thread about it. But on Casual Discussion, not here. Pretty sure it was BLM tho, but Bilderberg is always a possibility. |
| Because gender roles are a cancer. In the near future, "macho" is going to become extinct in the real western world as well. |
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| I don't think it has become extinct, maybe more like it's on the endangered species list. I also think "macho" is being portrayed differently than it used to be. That may be why it appears to be dying out. Instead of the big muscular guys going around fighting/killing people, it's showing up more as average looking guys standing up to bullies even if they get their ass kicked, or stopping to help someone in need even if it causes an inconvenience for themselves later, that sort of thing. |
 You're never too old to watch anime. If I ever stop watching anime, check my pulse I'm likely dead. I wake up with coffee & anime, I go to sleep with coffee & anime. Sorry if my sarcasm is bad, it's not my first language. |
HypocriteSupreme said: I love your post and you make a valid point, macho characters are gone and replaced by characters that are shameless and pathetic. lack of beard is also disturbing to Me also, these lack of macho characters are made by those kawaii loving, girly anime loving,waifu loving viewers or any of that otaku crap that I hate.It seems like the days of manly, decisive and confident anime protagonists like Kenshiro from Fist Of The North Star, Spike Spiegel from COWBOY BEBOP and Guts from Berserk seem long gone. Instead the insecure and indecisive MC has become the norm, populating most of the new animes. Why did the anime climate change so much? (On the same note i find the lack of beards in anime disturbing ಠ_ಠ) |
How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove  |
It's because anime is shit now where almost every guy has to be a skinny bishounen or a teenaged easily scared or embarassed pussy unlike in superior cartoons where you have manly men that aren't played for laughs and aren't stupid.  |
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Hrybami said: game of thrones is the best series out there, you should have your sexuality checked out. It's even best than any anime you have ever watched.I don't mind them disappearing from my anime. The last macho anime guy I've seen was that bastard in Guilty Crown and that made me sick for the exact same reason I got sick of Game of Thrones. I'm tired of seeing douchebag that are there for the sole purpose of being hated by the audience and to initiate shock factor to them. I don't think being cool makes you a macho though. Because cool guys aren't disappearing from anime. |
| How I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb --- Dr Strangelove |
lihle808 said: Hrybami said: game of thrones is the best series out there, you should have your sexuality checked out. It's even best than any anime you have ever watched.I don't mind them disappearing from my anime. The last macho anime guy I've seen was that bastard in Guilty Crown and that made me sick for the exact same reason I got sick of Game of Thrones. I'm tired of seeing douchebag that are there for the sole purpose of being hated by the audience and to initiate shock factor to them. I don't think being cool makes you a macho though. Because cool guys aren't disappearing from anime. I don't like series that screams "hey look how mature this it". Most of the times it's just dialogues that push the conception of douchebag too far giving the impression that the good characters are relatively nice. I'm not fond how women are treated like garbage in this series. Playing with relativism doesn't work well with me. I don't care if Game of Thrones is better. I prefer my favourites anime rather than this emo series by a large scale actually and I feel no regret about it. |
Seiya said: Because gender roles are a cancer. There is no such thing as "gender roles", only natural order. |
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| There are still confident MCs, they're more likely to dip into gary stu territory cause god forbid fans decide your character would lose a hypothetical battle with a character from another franchise. And if an OP character also happens to be an awkward nerdy dude then even better for the viewer. If I were to guess, cause fuck looking things up, I'd say it's either that the otakus of the 80s and 90s are the ones making anime now so they make characters resembling themselves, or that older anime tried to appeal to a larger demographic but then animators became aware of who their viewer base is so they now pander to that. |
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