| theres a lot (and i mean a whole bunch) of people commenting on anime (or certain anime series) to be unoriginal or too cliche, has nothing original to it, etc but tbf, as far as any entertainment medium goes, theres always this majority that cant be original, because its freaking hard to do so. with more than 100 anime airing every season, and hundreds of themes that has already been explored, you cant just blame (or calling) the anime industry for being not creative or other things. dont get me wrong, i dislike cliches, unoriginalities, and etc, but people need to understand that they cant just label anime as not being original, etc. critisizing about unoriginalities and cliches in a constructive way is good for us anime fans and the anime industry as it will encourage creators to think up of something better every time. |
"there's a difference between reaching your dreams and finding happiness"-Nana |
| Just look at Disney Channel. They pretty much just recycle jokes from older original shows. I don't think people would put effort into making something original when they can stick to the formula with no effort and make profit. But there is always the special few who dare to try something different. Every medium has unoriginal and creative people. Whether it be youtube, tv, movies, books, or etc. |
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| I don't think someone should use that as an insult of a medium honestly saying a show is unoriginal isn't really an insult to me its more so a fact Ive seen so many people saying they like show because it is quote on quote original but then I can think of 2 or 3 other similar shows they haven't watched so originality and unoriginality shouldn't really be a factor in my opinion if a medium is good or not |
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| The whole "there's no such thing as originality!!" shtick doesn't work when 1. It's not true, and 2. people complain about a lack of originality because shows literally use the exact same sequences of dialogue/character scenarios over and over again with little to no variation. When girl-chan #2 falls on top of INSERT MAIN CHARACTER HERE and his hand grabs her INSERT BODY PART HERE and she goes INSERT ANGRY/EMBARRASSED EXCLAMATION HERE, and then she INSERT PHYSICAL ASSAULT HERE him and then it cuts and there's a red handprint on his face and it's supposed to like, be funny or something, the excuse "originality doesn't exist so you can't complain about it" doesn't work. Sorry. Your show is a pile of garbage. Literal plagiarism (of terrible, annoying, shitty ideas that nobody over the mental age of 9 finds interesting) in order to fill spaces of 30 seconds at a time in order to pad your half-assed poorly thought out "story" idea into 20 minute/30 page intervals is indefensible. |
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| as a medium anime is pretty original, creative and unique. But that doesn't mean that there aren't tons of series that can be justly criticized by referring to their lack of any aspiration in these aspects. So it really depends on what we are talking about since you mentioned both in your OP as if they were interchangeable. They aren't. |
| I probably regret this post by now. |
| The anime count today reach as high as thousands. The constant want from the public to invent something now has hurt the industry more than it benefits. I see lots of anime nowadays trying to be original only to fail so much. Why not spicing up something cliched or unoriginal with something new? That's something i see in Kimi ni Todoke. The plot is as cliched as you can see in shoujo genre, but with the main protagonist looks like she came out of a ghost story, you damn pretty well sure to have an impact. That's also what happened with Ore Monogatari, where the author replaced the typically handsome male lead into a gorilla. |
| It's time to play the Game folks! |
| Anime is superior that's why it gets all the criticism and hate because of jealousy and worry, that's my answer and sticking to it. |
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| It shouldn't be applied to a medium; it happens to every single one in existence. It should be applied to individual pieces of work. After all, they're supposed to be individuals they try to stand out, not carbon copies of templates or the worst extremes of them, like The Asterisk War, Irregular at Magic High School, or Hand Shakers. |
| Being wrong is just an occupational hazard. Follow me on twitter. I have an anitube channel so feel free to check it out and subscribe if you like what you see. |
| I can understand the appeal of something unique or different, but when applied as a criticism it always seems kind of odd. Like, it seems like little more than just criticizing something for relying on established and popular means of characterization, storytelling, settings and aesthetic. How dare it not be completely different than an established and liked formula. There's an appeal in novelty, yes, but I do pretty strongly believe that something doesn't need to reinvent the wheel to be "good," which is the impression I get from people who emphasize the aspect of something being original. Then again, most people who emphasize that aren't usually the kind of people I have fun talking about things with, so eh. |
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| Well, people that said those can start moving to others "entertainment medium". Leave anime for eternity :D |
| This salad is salty favored |
Red_Keys said: The whole "there's no such thing as originality!!" shtick doesn't work when 1. It's not true, and 2. people complain about a lack of originality because shows literally use the exact same sequences of dialogue/character scenarios over and over again with little to no variation. When girl-chan #2 falls on top of INSERT MAIN CHARACTER HERE and his hand grabs her INSERT BODY PART HERE and she goes INSERT ANGRY/EMBARRASSED EXCLAMATION HERE, and then she INSERT PHYSICAL ASSAULT HERE him and then it cuts and there's a red handprint on his face and it's supposed to like, be funny or something, the excuse "originality doesn't exist so you can't complain about it" doesn't work. Sorry. Your show is a pile of garbage. To Love Ru Darkness. The heroine's plans aren't working out. It's a gloomy "boring everyday life" sequence. The music is sad, the colors are faded, the characters go about their everyday lives. It includes MC falling on a girl. Twice. Without interrupting the music or the sad atmosphere. Don't tell me it's not funny. CodeBlazeFate said: It shouldn't be applied to a medium; it happens to every single one in existence. It should be applied to individual pieces of work. After all, they're supposed to be individuals they try to stand out, not carbon copies of templates or the worst extremes of them, like The Asterisk War, Irregular at Magic High School, or Hand Shakers. What I really dislike is when people name obviously distinctive shows like Mahouka, and claim they are exactly the same as other shows. Do they have no eyes? |
flannan said: They are not distinctive aside from being the absolute extreme of the generic. There is nothing original about this show; it's the Frankenstein of the worst extremes of many clichés, notable Tatsuya Shiba, the ultimate Mary Sue.Red_Keys said: The whole "there's no such thing as originality!!" shtick doesn't work when 1. It's not true, and 2. people complain about a lack of originality because shows literally use the exact same sequences of dialogue/character scenarios over and over again with little to no variation. When girl-chan #2 falls on top of INSERT MAIN CHARACTER HERE and his hand grabs her INSERT BODY PART HERE and she goes INSERT ANGRY/EMBARRASSED EXCLAMATION HERE, and then she INSERT PHYSICAL ASSAULT HERE him and then it cuts and there's a red handprint on his face and it's supposed to like, be funny or something, the excuse "originality doesn't exist so you can't complain about it" doesn't work. Sorry. Your show is a pile of garbage. To Love Ru Darkness. The heroine's plans aren't working out. It's a gloomy "boring everyday life" sequence. The music is sad, the colors are faded, the characters go about their everyday lives. It includes MC falling on a girl. Twice. Without interrupting the music or the sad atmosphere. Don't tell me it's not funny. CodeBlazeFate said: It shouldn't be applied to a medium; it happens to every single one in existence. It should be applied to individual pieces of work. After all, they're supposed to be individuals they try to stand out, not carbon copies of templates or the worst extremes of them, like The Asterisk War, Irregular at Magic High School, or Hand Shakers. What I really dislike is when people name obviously distinctive shows like Mahouka, and claim they are exactly the same as other shows. Do they have no eyes? |
| Being wrong is just an occupational hazard. Follow me on twitter. I have an anitube channel so feel free to check it out and subscribe if you like what you see. |
CodeBlazeFate said: flannan said: They are not distinctive aside from being the absolute extreme of the generic. There is nothing original about this show; it's the Frankenstein of the worst extremes of many clichés, notable Tatsuya Shiba, the ultimate Mary Sue.What I really dislike is when people name obviously distinctive shows like Mahouka, and claim they are exactly the same as other shows. Do they have no eyes? Nothing original? The show has a lot of unusual characteristics. 1) The author is right-wing in politics, and it shows. Women of the future are wearing modest costumes, the characters are talking about modern times as the era of perversion. Evil Chinese are attacking the glorious Nippon, aided by Chinese immigrants within. Nippon responds with quasi-atomic strike. All the cool characters having impressive magical lineage. Supposed "meritocracy". And probably a lot of other details I have not caught on, because I am not in tune with Japanese politics. 2) Unlike all main characters merely prevailing though MC privileges like Kirito or any battle shounen protagonist ever, Tatsuya is obviously and truly overpowered. Tatsuya does not seek to become stronger. Tatsuya does not seek to prove himself. Tatsuya is not hot-blooded. Tatsuya is not a maverick hero, always sticking to his duties. He has a clear vision of his future, and most of the plot are just obstacles and distractions from that. Some call him too perfect. I call him a male version of Nagato Yuki. 3) Unlike many other schools you may have seen, Mahouka is quite balanced in the gender aspect. The male characters would not look out of place in a girls' show, the female characters would not look out of place in a boys' show. |
| Maybe anime is too readily available? The reason recycling old cliches and jokes (and even sound effects) works for Disney Channel and Cartoon Network is because the goal is that people will grow up and get bored with it and the next generation will get to "enjoy it". For anime watchers, its different because they always watch anime even after the point of '"growing up" because its so readily available online, etc. I'm sure there is a population of mal users (however small) that has seen way more anime than the average japanese |
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flannan said: You're more so referring to the source material, andgiventhst this anime is criticized for doing a horrendous job at handling said material, t doesn't work. Besides, like it's contemporaries, it does nothing with interesting concepts (like The Asterisk War with some of the powers).CodeBlazeFate said: They are not distinctive aside from being the absolute extreme of the generic. There is nothing original about this show; it's the Frankenstein of the worst extremes of many clichés, notable Tatsuya Shiba, the ultimate Mary Sue. Nothing original? The show has a lot of unusual characteristics. 1) The author is right-wing in politics, and it shows. Women of the future are wearing modest costumes, the characters are talking about modern times as the era of perversion. Evil Chinese are attacking the glorious Nippon, aided by Chinese immigrants within. Nippon responds with quasi-atomic strike. All the cool characters having impressive magical lineage. Supposed "meritocracy". And probably a lot of other details I have not caught on, because I am not in tune with Japanese politics. 2) Unlike all main characters merely prevailing though MC privileges like Kirito or any battle shounen protagonist ever, Tatsuya is obviously and truly overpowered. Tatsuya does not seek to become stronger. Tatsuya does not seek to prove himself. Tatsuya is not hot-blooded. Tatsuya is not a maverick hero, always sticking to his duties. He has a clear vision of his future, and most of the plot are just obstacles and distractions from that. Some call him too perfect. I call him a male version of Nagato Yuki. 3) Unlike many other schools you may have seen, Mahouka is quite balanced in the gender aspect. The male characters would not look out of place in a girls' show, the female characters would not look out of place in a boys' show. They are obviously OP as wel, but he takes it to new extremes, and this should no the be a positive, since a good show would try to make tension by showing Op characters that can make him give it his all, while this anime just makes him dust everyone except for one opponent who he still doesn't to much new against. That applies to a lot of these shows. It's just that it doesn't shove as much fanservixe or give Eiken tits. Also, each major character is the ultimate version of a generic stereotype of a character, with GodSuya being the most infuriating example of a Mary Sue who somehow manages to pull all sorts of plot-convenient bulshit out of his ass and defy all of the show's logic. |
| Being wrong is just an occupational hazard. Follow me on twitter. I have an anitube channel so feel free to check it out and subscribe if you like what you see. |
CodeBlazeFate said: flannan said: You're more so referring to the source material, and given this anime is criticized for doing a horrendous job at handling said material, t doesn't work. Besides, like it's contemporaries, it does nothing with interesting concepts (like The Asterisk War with some of the powers).Nothing original? The show has a lot of unusual characteristics. 1) The author is right-wing in politics, and it shows. Women of the future are wearing modest costumes, the characters are talking about modern times as the era of perversion. Evil Chinese are attacking the glorious Nippon, aided by Chinese immigrants within. Nippon responds with quasi-atomic strike. All the cool characters having impressive magical lineage. Supposed "meritocracy". And probably a lot of other details I have not caught on, because I am not in tune with Japanese politics. 2) Unlike all main characters merely prevailing though MC privileges like Kirito or any battle shounen protagonist ever, Tatsuya is obviously and truly overpowered. Tatsuya does not seek to become stronger. Tatsuya does not seek to prove himself. Tatsuya is not hot-blooded. Tatsuya is not a maverick hero, always sticking to his duties. He has a clear vision of his future, and most of the plot are just obstacles and distractions from that. Some call him too perfect. I call him a male version of Nagato Yuki. 3) Unlike many other schools you may have seen, Mahouka is quite balanced in the gender aspect. The male characters would not look out of place in a girls' show, the female characters would not look out of place in a boys' show. I have both watched the anime and read the novel (in this order). Anime did a fine job adapting the novel. Magic system explanations do not quite make sense about just as much ^_^. Also, I did not promise Mahouka would be good. Just that it would be distinctive. CodeBlazeFate said: They are obviously OP as wel, but he takes it to new extremes, and this should no the be a positive, since a good show would try to make tension by showing Op characters that can make him give it his all, while this anime just makes him dust everyone except for one opponent who he still doesn't to much new against. I consider most protagonists to be adequately powered for the challenges they face. But Tatsuya, like Alucard and a few others, is truly overpowered. CodeBlazeFate said: Also, each major character is the ultimate version of a generic stereotype of a character, with GodSuya being the most infuriating example of a Mary Sue who somehow manages to pull all sorts of plot-convenient bulshit out of his ass and defy all of the show's logic. Tatsuya does not defy any of the show's logic. He defies the expectations of many of his peers, but that is the premise. |
| anime is the most unoriginal medium ever. it basically just takes comics and animates them. flannan said: what others? I would like to see those shows,,,,, unless its saitamaI consider most protagonists to be adequately powered for the challenges they face. But Tatsuya, like Alucard and a few others, is truly overpowered. btw, wasnt tatsuya's op ability from the beginning return by death and he could make ppl disintegrate? IN TO NOTHINGNESS>!! that nuke in the end did seem like an ass pull. |
Pullman said: as a medium anime is pretty original, creative and unique. But that doesn't mean that there aren't tons of series that can be justly criticized by referring to their lack of any aspiration in these aspects. So it really depends on what we are talking about since you mentioned both in your OP as if they were interchangeable. They aren't. im sorry, your reply dont match my topic, or is it me that cant understand your higher languange ? do elaborate,please |
| "there's a difference between reaching your dreams and finding happiness"-Nana |
| It's not original if I can't distinguish one show from another. So far I have largely been able to distinguish anime shows that I've personally seen. Therefore, anime shows have originality. QED |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Lol, you should watch more movies and read more books. It's normal for most anime to follow specific cash-cow formula, but even now, every season features some new unique and interesting ideas. Of course, they are more risky and thus there aren't that many of them but overall anime is pretty fucking original in terms of story telling. |
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KuroudoAkabane said: flannan said: what others? I would like to see those shows,,,,, unless its saitamaI consider most protagonists to be adequately powered for the challenges they face. But Tatsuya, like Alucard and a few others, is truly overpowered. Besides Saitama, there is Momonga the Overlord. And Hero from Maoyuu Maou Yuusha (this show can't be solved by brute force, though). And MC's giant robot from Suisei no Gargantia. And Gargoyle of the Yoshinagas (the world's most charismatic stone statue). And Medaka from Medaka Box (at least in the first season). I think Choujin Locke was like that too. There is a number of MCs who have excessive amounts of raw power, like Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou's Sai Akuto or Strike the Blood's Akatsuki Kojou, but that's not translated to automatically winning. KuroudoAkabane said: btw, wasnt tatsuya's op ability from the beginning return by death and he could make ppl disintegrate? IN TO NOTHINGNESS>!! that nuke in the end did seem like an ass pull. Yes, Tatsuya can respawn on death, heal other people (even from death) and disintegrate stuff. He isn't called Godsuya for nothing. The nuke is just a logical progression of disintegrate power - disintegrating matter into energy according to e=mc^2 formula. |
| People can always stop watching the same battle harem over and over again and expand their options. If you limit yourself to certain genres you will end up with "unoriginal" and "generic" shows. You could also stop being obsessed with anime and just watch them casually, shows will always feel diffrent that way. |
CodeBlazeFate said: It shouldn't be applied to a medium; it happens to every single one in existence. It should be applied to individual pieces of work. After all, they're supposed to be individuals they try to stand out, not carbon copies of templates or the worst extremes of them, like The Asterisk War, Irregular at Magic High School, or Hand Shakers. Y'know, it's funny, because I recently went and watched The Asterisk War just to see what all the fuss was about. Then I watched Hundred. Then I watched Absolute Duo. I'm usually not into school battle harems, and sure enough I wasn't overwhelmingly satisfied with any of them. But ironically, of these three the most "generic" of them might be arguably Absolute Duo, but that turned out to be the one I enjoyed the most. Probably because it has the best music. And the storytelling, as "whatever!" as it was, felt like it actually went somewhere interesting. Also has a dub and oh my, Lilith Bristol is a horrible jackass if I were to ever run into her real life but she is quite darn entertaining to watch and listen to. Anyway, what started all this was that the Asterisk War was "popularized" to me by Digibro's videos, or more specifically by a friend of mine who kept on talking about Digibro's commentary on The Asterisk War because Digibro kept on having commentary about The Asterisk War, I guess. So I watched it. It felt meh. Julis (the pink-haired lead girl) really needs to stop being so idiotically and stereotypically tsundere, and it'd really help if she stopped blushing so much, but hey, school teenagers gonna school teenage. On the other hand, the battle tactics were kinda interesting. Though here's a good indicator that I wasn't very satisfied with it: So, normally, I prefer dubs, but I watched Asterisk War before the dub came out. So I went to check out the dub, and I really did not feel like rewatching it. Just goes to show it's in that part of my mind that's the "it's stuff that happened, and some of it was nice but I don't really feel like revisiting it again since some other stuff was kinda dumbly awkward." Hundred turned out to be the most boring of the three in my opinion. Are there similarities between these shows? Yeah. Let's see: * obviously, all of them are set in schools, specifically combat schools * obviously, all of them involve suggesting a harem * obviously, all of them have fanservice * in Hundred and AD, the female and male leads share the same dorm room for unexpected reasons. * in Hundred and AD, the female and male leads are both "special" in some way due to past trauma. * in AW and AD, the female lead is named Julisomething. Julis vs. Julie. * in Hundred and AD (I forgot about AW lol) the activation phrase is "[whatever] on!". But how did they turn out so differently? * Well, first let's note that AW is a two-cour show. I haven't seen the second cour yet. But it distinguished itself by being mainly about the battles in the tournament. * Their setting premises are pretty different. AW is about the tourney. In Hundred they're training to fight these alien creatures, and are living on a giant boat. In AD there's a prominent conspiratorial element to the story. * AW and Hundred have generally brighter palettes, while in AD there's more use of darker scenes. * AW and Hundred have a much more sci-fi feel to them. Hundred's the only one that features budysuits though (and that includes bodysuits for guys -- making the fanservice a little less lopsided). AD has a more fantasy feel, despite having sci-fi elements. * Even for the one most prominent common element they have, the harem, the implementation is wildly different. Just looking at the lead female: Julis is a smack-in-your-face tsundere, (spoiler for Hundred) , and Julie is the quiet, stoic type, and uses gratuitous Norwegian. The only other analogue I might draw between the harems is Claire Harvey and Lilith Bristol, both of whom are very forward, arrogant, and powerful in battle, but they occupy very different roles in the setting -- Lilith shows up to try to upend the establishment, while Claire is the establishment since she's the student council prez. And I don't think evil "vampire" girl in AW has any analogue in the other shows. * Not even the power levels of the male leads are the same. AW's male lead is aware of his power and its practical limitations; Hundred's male lead is aware but his limitation is different; AD's male lead is "special" not because of being particularly better at fighting but for having a shield as his weapon. Which incidentally means that his tactics are way different from the other two's. * Male leads' motivations are also different -- one is searching for his sister, while the other two have to do with past trauma, and even then one of them is pretty much just here for the education. * Only The Asterisk War has a Rasmus Faber ending theme. :P And as mentioned earlier I found Absolute Duo's music to be the best of the three. Meanwhile Hundred's OP and EDs were all basically meh in my opinion. So, are there similarities? Yes. Are there also differences? Yes. How much should you care about those differences? Depends on how much you care about the shows themselves I guess. If not, they'll pretty much just remain "just some other school battle harem shows". Which is fair because that is what they are. But that doesn't mean that they're really interchangeable. Stuff might start similarly, but the stories each end up going in wildly different directions. Anyway, a friend wants me to go watch Qualidea Code. I watched the first ep and I felt it was kinda meh. But I've already gone so far as to watch three of these school battle shows; I might as well add a fourth. It'll be interesting to add it to the comparison at least. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
| Yeah ofc is right Is a valid reason to hate a serie Feel sad because harems can offer something good if they stop repeating the same shit over and over |
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| Yes anime should be blamed when it's being cliched or unoriginal or uncreative. It should strive to be as creative as cartoons. Adventure Time has a post apocalyptic world with a kingdom made up of anthropomorphic sweets, Regular Show has streaming as an actual villain and a giant duck mech, my cartoon waifu gains her powers from a totem to an African trickster god, the cartoon Fish Police is set in an underwater version of New York city, Ozzy and Drix is set inside a human boy's body, the Rabbi's cat has a cat wanting to b religious and have a bar mitzvah, Sausage party has anthropomorphic groceries that are religious and that partook in a mass orgy . Anime lacks the high level of creativity that cartoons have. |
DrGeroCreationMar 14, 2017 2:22 PM
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| I agree, it's hard to make something original nowadays, but the anime I have issue with isn't really about the originality, but despite the lack of originality, the writers don't seem to really put any effort into make it a series of its own, and instead it feels like a direct copy of another anime. There are plenty of series that are not original by any means, but the good ones have something that you can identify as something of their own, they have an identity so to speak, and the bad ones don't. |
| Honobono Log - best slice of life short -------------------------------------------- most kawaii loli overlord ---------------------------- Donquixote Doflamingo AMV - Control |
| Well, at least blame the consumers first not the medium itself. Anime don't go to what it is now without its audience/consumers. If consumers decides to go for a cliche stories/series, then that what will happen. In short, don't fuck the medium but the people who are into the medium. |
DrGeroCreation said: Yes anime should be blamed when it's being cliched or unoriginal or uncreative. It should strive to be as creative as cartoons. Adventure Time has a post apocalyptic world with a kingdom made up of anthropomorphic sweets, Regular Show has streaming as an actual villain and a giant duck mech, my cartoon waifu gains her powers from a totem to an African trickster god, the cartoon Fish Police is set in an underwater version of New York city, Ozzy and Drix is set inside a human boy's body, the Rabbi's cat has a cat wanting to b religious and have a bar mitzvah, Sausage party has anthropomorphic groceries that are religious and that partook in a mass orgy . Anime lacks the high level of creativity that cartoons have. I do have to question sometimes whether that sort of superficial "originality" is really worth as much as some people suggest it is. Because, as I noted, some of it is pretty superficial, like trivia items, basically. And if people overdo it, it just becomes some sort of trying to one-up each other to do increasingly weird things for novelty value. Now, some people may enjoy weird things for their weirdness and novelty value, but that's not usually my thing; I'm usually more interested in a satisfying story, on which novelty has relatively little bearing. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
GlennMagusHarvey said: Non of the examples I gave are superficial at all and the creative elements enhance the story and characters so it isn't just for the sake of novelty. A show going against the norm just to stand out wouldn't automatically be good though , it depends on how well it executes it's creative elements.DrGeroCreation said: Yes anime should be blamed when it's being cliched or unoriginal or uncreative. It should strive to be as creative as cartoons. Adventure Time has a post apocalyptic world with a kingdom made up of anthropomorphic sweets, Regular Show has streaming as an actual villain and a giant duck mech, my cartoon waifu gains her powers from a totem to an African trickster god, the cartoon Fish Police is set in an underwater version of New York city, Ozzy and Drix is set inside a human boy's body, the Rabbi's cat has a cat wanting to b religious and have a bar mitzvah, Sausage party has anthropomorphic groceries that are religious and that partook in a mass orgy . Anime lacks the high level of creativity that cartoons have. I do have to question sometimes whether that sort of superficial "originality" is really worth as much as some people suggest it is. Because, as I noted, some of it is pretty superficial, like trivia items, basically. And if people overdo it, it just becomes some sort of trying to one-up each other to do increasingly weird things for novelty value. Now, some people may enjoy weird things for their weirdness and novelty value, but that's not usually my thing; I'm usually more interested in a satisfying story, on which novelty has relatively little bearing. |
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DrGeroCreation said: Yes anime should be blamed when it's being cliched or unoriginal or uncreative. It should strive to be as creative as cartoons. Adventure Time has a post apocalyptic world with a kingdom made up of anthropomorphic sweets, Regular Show has streaming as an actual villain and a giant duck mech, my cartoon waifu gains her powers from a totem to an African trickster god, the cartoon Fish Police is set in an underwater version of New York city, Ozzy and Drix is set inside a human boy's body, the Rabbi's cat has a cat wanting to b religious and have a bar mitzvah, Sausage party has anthropomorphic groceries that are religious and that partook in a mass orgy . Anime lacks the high level of creativity that cartoons have. «This single industry should strive to be as varied and creative as this entire medium that is spread worldwide.» You know better than I do that for instance French and US animation have nothing to do with each other, so it is very absurd to group them as part of the same continuum and ask why anime doesn't reach the level of variety of both combined. |
DrGeroCreation said: GlennMagusHarvey said: Non of the examples I gave are superficial at all and the creative elements enhance the story and characters so it isn't just for the sake of novelty. A show going against the norm just to stand out wouldn't automatically be good though , it depends on how well it executes it's creative elements.I do have to question sometimes whether that sort of superficial "originality" is really worth as much as some people suggest it is. Because, as I noted, some of it is pretty superficial, like trivia items, basically. And if people overdo it, it just becomes some sort of trying to one-up each other to do increasingly weird things for novelty value. Now, some people may enjoy weird things for their weirdness and novelty value, but that's not usually my thing; I'm usually more interested in a satisfying story, on which novelty has relatively little bearing. Definitely agreed. Symphogear is an example, in my opinion, of a show that does something pretty unique and distinctive but doesn't really back it up with good storytelling. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
jal90 said: A single industry that has more output than all other cartoon industries in the world combined. Both French cartoons and American cartoons belong to the same medium called western cartoons.«This single industry should strive to be as varied and creative as this entire medium that is spread worldwide.» You know better than I do that for instance French and US animation have nothing to do with each other, so it is very absurd to group them as part of the same continuum and ask why anime doesn't reach the level of variety of both combined. @GlennMagusHarvey Never saw Symphogear and it doesn't seem unique from the synopsis although I would have to watch it to know for sure. |
DrGeroCreationMar 14, 2017 2:45 PM
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DrGeroCreation said: jal90 said: A single industry that has more output than all other cartoon industries in the world combined. Both French cartoons and American cartoons belong to the same medium called western cartoons.«This single industry should strive to be as varied and creative as this entire medium that is spread worldwide.» You know better than I do that for instance French and US animation have nothing to do with each other, so it is very absurd to group them as part of the same continuum and ask why anime doesn't reach the level of variety of both combined. Except that medium is a construction that may serve to make cheap comparisons in MAL threads, but is not really representative. The social and artistic influences of French creators are not the same as American ones, therefore they stand alone as separated industries with very different views on animation. And they are two very strong industries, as you surely know. Anime, huge or not, is another industry coming from a specific region, it is derived from a specific context, and its themes and values are influenced by that. |
DrGeroCreation said: I'd hesitate to call them part of the same medium called "western cartoons"/"western animation".jal90 said: A single industry that has more output than all other cartoon industries in the world combined. Both French cartoons and American cartoons belong to the same medium called western cartoons.«This single industry should strive to be as varied and creative as this entire medium that is spread worldwide.» You know better than I do that for instance French and US animation have nothing to do with each other, so it is very absurd to group them as part of the same continuum and ask why anime doesn't reach the level of variety of both combined. Animation/cartoons are the medium. French animation probably has a little more in common with American animation but is still relatively distinct and if anything they and the Italians have shown more inclination toward Japanese-inspired productions. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
jal90 said: Well then Jal I would say that each separately are more creative than anime. Anime's high output on a seasonal basis impedes it from being more creative imo.The social and artistic influences of French creators are not the same as American ones, therefore they stand alone as separated industries with very different views on animation. And they are two very strong industries, as you surely know. Anime, huge or not, is another industry coming from a specific region, it is derived from a specific context, and its themes and values are influenced by that. @GlennMagusHarvey If anime can be seen as it's own medium then western cartoons can as well. French cartoons have the same level of anthropomorphism as American cartoons and the same level of diversity in character designs. |
DrGeroCreationMar 14, 2017 2:56 PM
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| To be honest, in comparison to other mediums, anime is one of the most unorthodox mediums in my own personal opinion. I feel like, that whilst not all anime is 'original', anime is particularly good at stretching the boundaries of what can be visually expressed. I mean, where else can we see popular, well-received transported-to-another-world anime with suffer-porn, during the same year as an equally popular gay-boys skating on ice anime? Where else can we find generic harems and psychological mind-fucks? Sure, there are 'american cartoons', which are 'original', but the thing is, I can only truly come to think of about 3-4 examples of 'original cartoons' which have aired in the past month - and those shows have been airing for.. what, years? The thing is that anime is released on an exponential scale in comparison to that of Western-cartoons (or, such is what I have seen anyhow). Essentially, all mediums will have unoriginal shows. Anime has unoriginal shows. Western cartoons have unoriginal shows. Books have unoriginal books. Hollywood movies have unoriginal hollywood movies. It's practically impossible to call the entirety of a medium 'unoriginal'. Especially when, comparing anime to that of other mediums, that have a much wider spectrum of topics and themes which they have covered, or well, at least at a greater scale than that of much else. Somewhat on the otherhand though: people are so bent on 'originality' these days. What an individual defines as 'original' will differ between people. Does a new theme define originality? Does a new animation style define originality? Does a new set of differently-explored characters define originality? Is it a direction style? Is it a soundtrack? Does a show have to tick all of these points to be original? Debating as to whether or not a show is 'original' shouldn't really matter too much anyway, nevermind a medium. Just focus on what does what WELL, instead of whether it's scraped the tip of the iceberg of a well-utilised theme or not. |
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tohsakaa said: That's why it has less original shows. There are like millions of mecha anime, multiple ecchi harems etc.The thing is that anime is released on an exponential scale in comparison to that of Western-cartoons (or, such is what I have seen anyhow). |
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| originality is dead let me enjoy the same plots redone in 5 different shows |
DrGeroCreation said: tohsakaa said: That's why it has less original shows. There are like millions of mecha anime, multiple ecchi harems etc.The thing is that anime is released on an exponential scale in comparison to that of Western-cartoons (or, such is what I have seen anyhow). I think that it doesn't have less original shows; it may have a less percentage of original shows, seeing as it releases a larger amount, however overall, anime has created more shows which I would personally call 'original' than that of cartoons. Saying that anime has 'tons of mech shows' is like saying cartoons have 'tons of superhero shows'. And, within that example, I feel like mecha anime have touched on more original themes than that of superhero shows. Additionally, for example, I feel like there have been a wider array of directional and stylistic choices in the numerous mahou shoujo anime than that of those in, say, supernatural western cartoons. |
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| of course it is claiming others mediums have the same issues is not much of a defense if the person is general bothered by those elements in anime(if only other mediuns having the same issue would only extend that criticism to those) i personally find that argument to be bullshit though the crazy variety anime has in themes setting and plos is impressive to say the least |
tohsakaa said: Well I am of the opposite opinion and the examples I gave to me show the greater level of creativity in cartoons.DrGeroCreation said: That's why it has less original shows. There are like millions of mecha anime, multiple ecchi harems etc. I think that it doesn't have less original shows; it may have a less percentage of original shows, seeing as it releases a larger amount, however overall, anime has created more shows which I would personally call 'original' than that of cartoons. Saying that anime has 'tons of mech shows' is like saying cartoons have 'tons of superhero shows'. And, within that example, I feel like mecha anime have touched on more original themes than that of superhero shows. Additionally, for example, I feel like there have been a wider array of directional and stylistic choices in the numerous mahou shoujo anime than that of those in, say, supernatural western cartoons. Superhero shows vary more from title to title more so than mech anime and ecchi harems. |
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CodeBlazeFate said: It shouldn't be applied to a medium; it happens to every single one in existence. It should be applied to individual pieces of work. After all, they're supposed to be individuals they try to stand out, not carbon copies of templates or the worst extremes of them, like The Asterisk War, Irregular at Magic High School, or Hand Shakers. mahouka actually really stands out though it has this bizarre combination of some of the most stupid plot and character with such self important about the conflicts and its magic system not mentioning the moments where the show goes so over the top that it makes it look like a parody of itself |
| Nobody is blaming the medium itself (I hope). Unimaginative, greedy writers and producers are the ones at fault. |
DrGeroCreation said: tohsakaa said: Well I am of the opposite opinion and the examples I gave to me show the greater level of creativity in cartoons.I think that it doesn't have less original shows; it may have a less percentage of original shows, seeing as it releases a larger amount, however overall, anime has created more shows which I would personally call 'original' than that of cartoons. Saying that anime has 'tons of mech shows' is like saying cartoons have 'tons of superhero shows'. And, within that example, I feel like mecha anime have touched on more original themes than that of superhero shows. Additionally, for example, I feel like there have been a wider array of directional and stylistic choices in the numerous mahou shoujo anime than that of those in, say, supernatural western cartoons. Superhero shows vary more from title to title more so than mech anime and ecchi harems. I understand and respect that opinion. I personally believe that a greater level of creativity is achieved in anime, though that's subjective and there's no real point in spiralling into /that/ argument. It depends on what you mean by 'vary' - in theme, or stylistic quality, or visual direction, soundtrack, characters, underlying message, etc. Personally, when I look at superhero shows, I do see that they are different from one-another, but not to the same degree of difference between quite the ample amount of mecha and harem/ecchi shows that could be used as examples. |
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tohsakaa said: I agree with this.It depends on what you mean by 'vary' - in theme, or stylistic quality, or visual direction, soundtrack, characters, underlying message, etc. DrGeroCreation said: Yeah, synopses turn out to be pretty crap at summarizing stuff. I mean, much of anime is some sort of speculative fiction, and that's all we really find out from synopses.@GlennMagusHarvey Never saw Symphogear and it doesn't seem unique from the synopsis although I would have to watch it to know for sure. Come to think of it Symphogear has the added distinction of being a series where I really enjoyed the music but didn't enjoy the story. (Dragonaut is the only other one I can think of that's like this, and at least it has an excuse, specifically its very silly fanservice.) Of course, this might all just be a matter of opinion. I have a couple friends who quite firmly enjoyed Symphogear and then excitedly went on to watch its two sequel seasons. |
| Avatar character is Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut. |
tohsakaa said: In terms of characters, character designs,artstyle, abilities, origins, episode structure (some superhero cartoons are purely episodic while others are more connected).It depends on what you mean by 'vary' - in theme, or stylistic quality, or visual direction, soundtrack, characters, underlying message, etc. Personally, when I look at superhero shows, I do see that they are different from one-another, but not to the same degree of difference between quite the ample amount of mecha and harem/ecchi shows that could be used as examples. @GlennMagusHarvey Oh I see. It's not the type of anime I would watch but I might give it a try sometime. |
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| Most people dont even wanna try the more unique works, I dont think originality in any form is valued by the masses. Maybe thats kinda obvious since a unique work wont appeal to as much people as something containing proof tested elements. I also agree with the others that anime has a rather high variety of shows. So if anything blame the fans, actually always blame the fans. |
SpaghettiSpikeMar 14, 2017 5:30 PM
 Oshii is probably the only director that loves dogs. He thinks he's a dog himself. That's right, its slime! It will dissolve your clothing slowly before my eyes! |
| Like with pretty much every medium, there really is no such thing as total originality. However, there is only so much familiarity I can take before I become bored or upset. |
| People who put MAL stats in their sigs are losers lol |
DrGeroCreation said: jal90 said: Well then Jal I would say that each separately are more creative than anime. Anime's high output on a seasonal basis impedes it from being more creative imo.The social and artistic influences of French creators are not the same as American ones, therefore they stand alone as separated industries with very different views on animation. And they are two very strong industries, as you surely know. Anime, huge or not, is another industry coming from a specific region, it is derived from a specific context, and its themes and values are influenced by that. Fair point I guess, however its high output has allowed it to reach high degrees of creativity. Name an idea and it's very likely that anime has explored it in some way or the other, just because it's that vast. Now, you may have a point when talking about specific genres that are very stereotyped. I know that there's a lot of variety in French and American animation as well, though to be honest I dont find your examples that impressive. They rely a lot on the subject of anthropomorphization, which rare as it may be in Japan (not as much I'd say) is ridiculously common in Western, and specially American, animation. I mean, is Fish Police that creative just because the characters are fish? Or with The rabbi's cat. I am even surprised that this is brought here because, you know... cats are everywhere in fiction, and specially in animation. Literally everything has been done with cats. From love stories, to counterculture, to noir, comedy, tragedy, you name it. You talk about a cat wanting to be religious when anime has shown cats starring in a Christian allegory or going through a weird spiritual journey. Finally... well, Sausage Party is just the prime example of lazy content for me. It is creative in a way, not completely, but also annoyingly juvenile and the ideas it has are not exactly elaborate or mindblowing. |
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